Ian Smith (a true patriot ) dies - Page 2

Eric · 21-11-2007, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

The question I'd like to pose is: Are the black Zimbabweans better off now under Mugabe than they were under Smith?

I don't think there is a simple answer to this one. The question is deceptively simple (not you, hon, the question

) but the answer isn't. Zimbabwe now is not what it was when it was Rhodesia. And it is not what it will be when Mugabe is gone. Are we talking economically better off? Politically? What kind of value can be assigned to freedom? How long does it take for a country, artificially created, to get over the problems surrounding its creation?

WillowTheWhisp · 21-11-2007, 20:47

If I was a Zimbabwean I would be more interested in food on the table and a roof over my head than in my right to vote in a regime like they have at present.

Eric · 21-11-2007, 21:13

That's a problem for rulers like Mugabe: if you give the people food and shelter, they will want to paritcipate in the political process. If you make sure that food is scarce, they will concentrate on brute survival, and to hell with how the country is run, or who is running it. Smith, by improving the economic lot of the blacks created political problems for himself. I believe that democracy has to grow, any revolution, peaceful or violent, can get rid of a bad govt., but it can't guarantee good govt. and a strong economy. Of course, there have been successful revolutions, in the US for example, and in Cuba, where the revolution would have had more success if the world's strongest power was not constantly trying to frustrate it. England has had the slowest and most successful revolution of all lasting from about 1215 until yesterday.

bullseyebarb · 23-11-2007, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

George Bush, a man of severly limited mental ability, holds the office of President.

Our current president received a BA in history from Yale University in 1968 and a Masters in Business Administration from Harvard in 1975. Not quite the dunce you've been led to believe. Granted, he's not a great public speaker....but don't let that fool you.

bullseyebarb · 23-11-2007, 18:33

There was a semi-apartheid regime during Iain Smith's tenure - although it was nowhere near that of South Africa. And nobody starved.

Mugabe's tribe, the Shona, (being in the majority), has been trying to eliminate the Matabele ever since Zanu came to power. Between 1980 & 1984 alone, 30,000 Matabele were murdered. It remains the least discussed genocide in Africa. You don't hear any criticism of Mugabe from the leading lights of neighboring African countries either. Not even from the much lauded Nelson Mandela, although Thabo Mbeki managed to finally issue a very qualified and guarded statement.

Having achieved the franchise, black Zimbabweans are now dealing with the consequences of mob rule.

Eric · 23-11-2007, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

There was a semi-apartheid regime during Iain Smith's tenure - although it was nowhere near that of South Africa. And nobody starved.

Mugabe's tribe, the Shona, (being in the majority), has been trying to eliminate the Matabele ever since Zanu came to power. Between 1980 & 1984 alone, 30,000 Matabele were murdered. It remains the least discussed genocide in Africa. You don't hear any criticism of Mugabe from the leading lights of neighboring African countries either. Not even from the much lauded Nelson Mandela, although Thabo Mbeki managed to finally issue a very qualified and guarded statement.

Having achieved the franchise, black Zimbabweans are now dealing with the consequences of mob rule.

It's the nasty aftermath of colonialism, happened in India, happened in the Middle East. Telling someone that they are now free is fine, but what do they do with that freedom in a state that was artificially constructed in the first place. This is not an attempt to excuse Mugabe, or Amin, or any of the others born out of uncertainty and outright chaos. It seems as if the birthing pains and the growing pains last way too long.

And GWB .... ah, what the heck, it's getting close to Christmas, good will and all that stuff.

Eric · 24-11-2007, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Our current president received a BA in history from Yale University in 1968 and a Masters in Business Administration from Harvard in 1975. Not quite the dunce you've been led to believe. Granted, he's not a great public speaker....but don't let that fool you.

I see he has the best brains money could buy

Like the avatar by the way, now I won't be able to read your posts without thinking of Dale Evans