Hospital Discrimination.
 

Ok, little rant here.

Fair enough disabled drivers/car users are welcome to park closer to the entrance of wherever.. to which I have no problem. BUT WHY! at the Royal Blackburn Hospital do non-disabled drivers get charged for the use of the car park, yet disabled drivers have free parking! (No ticket machines)

This is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me, and discriminative against non-disabled drivers! Just because a disabled driver/passenger is disabled, it does not mean they cant afford to pay the car park fee!

I'm sure someone will have some sensible response, but I find this utterly inexcusable.

"Im not disabled,

£3.00 then please.."

Re: Hospital Discrimination.
 

Covered this before Thomas . but absolutely agree with you.

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Ah dam! How I wish I had original/fresh topics to discuss =(

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S'okay .. more the better on some subjects, and lots of people on here not seen it before, or totally ignored :rolleyes:.. sorry I pointed that out, sounded smug.
Great point though. x

Re: Hospital Discrimination.
 

I think that the reasons behind free parking for the disabled are

They go to a lot of hospital appointments for their physical ailments.

They are likely to be out of work and on benefit therefore short of money.

I don't know if these are the official reasons behind it but they are the only reasons I can come up with to explain.

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Good point Lilly, but isn't a blue badge only given on the disability, not linked to the benefits or means tested, etc.

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I think its the same type of thing. Its all about providing a better quality of life when disabled people are given some sort of benefit or advantage over others. Its bad enough that they often have to go to hospital regularly so they make the parking free.

When you think of all the disadvantages you can when your disabled then its nothing.

My friend needed to use the toilet very badly in a mcdonalds in leeds and he asked to use the disabled toilet and they refused, and they called the manager to 'deal' with him and my friend had to lift up his top and reveal his stoma bag which was badly in need of emptying and obviously this was very distressful in a busy mcdonalds.
He was discriminated against for not looking disabled 'enough'. He can afford £3 parking, he says the benefits he gets are more than adequate, but its ust nice to have that one less thing to worry about when you have to visit the hospital isnt it.

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You see, I thought that, yet you have to ask yourself the question - short of money - yet can run a car - yet cant afford £3.00 car park fee?

I also then asked myself the question, what uproar would there be if non-disabled drivers had free parking, yet disabled drivers had to pay? Discrimination law suit me thinks?

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If they are on the higher level disability allowance then they are eligible for a motability car.

Welcome to Motability - How the Car Scheme works

If a person has one of these cars they don't cost much to run, just the petrol really. Things like servicing, insurance and replacement tyres are free on this scheme.

Re: Hospital Discrimination.
 

Also on the disability note, someone visiting the hospital could be equally as 'disabled' as such due to whatever they're visiting for, maybe illness, a broken leg? Anything. Yet because they don't have a blue badge, they have to pay - regardless of their circumstances to what they are visiting the hospital for.

Secondly, if a disabled person needs to visit the hospital frequently due to their disability, and they don't have someone to drive them there every time they're due, wouldnt they find some other form of transport? Taxi, free door2door minibus service? etc. Unless of course they are fit enough to drive, to which they should be fit enough to pay a small parking free ;)

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Good point I suppose. I still think its wrong though.

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If you had a choice between paying £3 parking or being disabled and getting it for free, which would you choose?

I think it's actually quite selfish to whinge about £3 somebody's saving for being physically disabled.

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It depends where the money goes to. For example if there is CCTV on the car park them you should pay for that added benefit just in case someone damages your car or you get attacked in the car park etc, you will have a greater chance of finding the person who did it.

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You digressing blazey .. not the thread question.

So should the disabled in my opinion.

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the money may have something to do with the new helipad they have put there

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If a person is registered disabled then they are likely to be a regular visitor to hospital, not just as a one off for a broken leg etc.

Why would they want to find another mode of transport if they have their own car? :confused:

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Its not a case of that, and I think it was rather selfish of you to bare that question upon me. Of course I wouldn't like to be physically disabled, but the point I was making is that if you're going to charge one, you have to charge them all.

Its the key to a civilized community/country - equal rights - everyone is the same. Its what we teach the young, and what should be taught from day 1. If we treat people differently, which is clearly whats happening, we are being discriminative against others and treating people differently. Which I'm almost sure, is the one thing disabled people despise, being discriminated against. ;)

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hahaha daft get ;)

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On a small note, I'm not registered disabled. I'm visiting the hospital for treatment on a fort-nightly, sometimes weekly basis for a period of 5 months, ending in May. So I think its wrong to persume only the disabled will be visiting the hospital on more than one occasion.

ALSO, what about a non-disabled person, visiting a sick person who is in the hospital long term? Still paying..

Perhaps what the answer would be, is to have the ticket machines in use for every visitor/patient, but have a card which can be given by a member of the NHS staff to allow a free exit from the car-park. (Ie: to regular visitors such as a disabled person visiting frequently) ;)

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One of my local city hospitals has a system where the clerk on the patient check-in desk has a ' time/date stamp' which validates your car-park ticket for free parking , that way all patients with genuine appointments recieving treatment (disabled and non-disabled) get free parking

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Welcome to the real world.

Where did you get the impression that we are all the same?

High earners pay a greater percentage in tax. What drugs are prescribed to you depends on which health authority you come under. Low income families receive benefits such as free school meals.

There's a never ending list which could illustrate the fact that life just isn't fair.

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A few years ago my son had 4 serious operations in 2 years, for about 3 months afterwards he could not walk without a lot of pain and crutches. It is hell trying to keep a disabled teenage boy amused all day, every day. He could not go to most places, (cinemas, museums etc) because we could not get the car near enough for him to hobble inside.
To get him to his out patients appointments, I had to take him to the drop off point(old BRI), help him out, get him as fast as I could to wheelchair (before some jobs worth gave me a ticket) then abandon him well I took the car to a car park, (this often took 20 mins or so)
No chance of a blue badge as he was not permanantly disabled. We watched in envy as seemingly health people parked on the disabled spots and ran in!

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That was the point I was bearing, I know 'we aren't all the same' and this is what needs changing.

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Good luck doing that then, but change isn't come via accyweb, it will come by teling the hospital your bothered about it.

It is hardly discrimination for having to pay a parking fee though, you have to pay to park on the sainsburies car park here if your on the car park for more than half an hour. Is that fair, to make people rush doing their shopping when you wont be discriminated at Aldi a mile or two away?

There is no such thing as equality, because to have equality you'd probably have to sacrifice something much more valuable.

As Shakespeare said, striving to better, oft we mar whats well. Chances are all they'd do is make EVERYONE pay, not make it free for you, so all you'll have done is spoilt someone elses luxury. And yes that is selfish whether you think I'm wrong for thinking that or not. Its like me blowing out the candles on your birthday cake. Not right is it?

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do people get free parking if there kid is in intensive care and they have to vist everyday??
or they have to stay there all day because someone is having a operation but they are only there for the day??
when my son had his op, we had to pay for parking all day.

I think its stupid that we have to pay at all

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when you have a hospitel a fair way from shops and town center then i would say all cars are parked there for a good reason no one just goes to hospital to park up.if they charged a small fee for your duration of your stay then that would be fair not a hourly charge,no one goes to casualty wanting to stay four or five hours ,make a fixed charge fee say £1.00 for your stay.this fee would go to mentaining the car parks

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Of course it is but just think of the staff who have to pay for the pleasure of going to work.:cool: Staff are no longer being issued with permits to get onto the staff area because there isn't enough spaces. They therefore have to park on the visitors area and pay £3.50, 5 days a week, just to go to work.

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I am rather disgusted to see that somebody should begrudge free parking for wheelchair users.

Life is harder and frequently more stressful and expensive for wheelchair users.

Giving free parking is the least that society can do to help level the playing field just a little; wheelchair users would much rather have the basic mobility levels to pay for the car park.

(Although it does massively wind me up when I see blue badge holders sprinting around the car park, but that's another rant entirely.....)
:)

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If you are regularly visiting somebody in hospital then if you save your receipts for the car park, when you get so many you take them into the car park desk and they give you a voucher to enable you to park for another 4 days free (I think..........I can check on this tonight when I go to visit my mum who has been in for 7 weeks!! and I am visiting her twice a day)

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Sorry lettie , but ....don't you think its your, or rather your unions negotiating commitees fault that you have to pay , surely these are the folks who negotiate your pay and conditions , suggest you ask your elected on-site union rep why this wasn't included in the last or previous contracts, I'm sure if enough people (e.g. all theatre RNs or x-ray techs) called in 'sick' on various random days the management would soon get the message .

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That's news to me. A relative of mine when to visit her dad every day to Blackburn Royal, for eighteen months, and had to pay the full amount.

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Disabled people aren't necessarily wheelchair bound! You've clearly a lot to learn on the subject.

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What is? lol

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I worked at QPH(now RBH) from 1977-2002.....initially parking was free......but there was an awful lot of car crime.......mindless vandalism...windows broken......things stolen from Vehicles and vehicles stolen too.
Then the Hospital decided they would charge for parking, but they would plough the money back into the car parks....they employed site staff.....installed high power lighting (which made me feel a lot safer after coming off a late shift)....and latterly CCTV cameras.
The car crime dropped to almost zero.
The security staff who manned the car parks were pleasant and helpful.....would tell you if you had left your lights on(no coming off duty finding you had a flat battery)....and would help you in all kinds of circumstances.
So while at the start I begrudged paying in order for me to go to work, I came to see that I felt safer and felt that my vehicle was more secure....so in the end I accepted the charges.
In those days there wasn't the same volume of traffic wanting spaces and if you paid your monthly fee you knew you had somewhere safe to park.
If you don't like paying the fees then it is simple.......catch the bus. I think that is an equally expensive and time consuming occupation.
If you have a car, you know that Road tax, Insurance and parking charges are a fact of life....you have to live with it.

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it may be a fact n ya have to live with it margaret, but i dont like it.:(

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The argument at hand though was not that a parking fee is in place, its that disabled users don't have to pay.

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there are many places where disabled people do not have to pay for parking.
I would rather be able bodied and pay for my parking than be disabled and in a wheel chair.
Disabled people get a few 'perks'....but it still doesn't compensate them for the fact that they are disabled.......and just because a disability isn't visible doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
I hope you are NEVER in the position of requiring disabled parking.

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And my previous post (the long one) was really to supply some historical background rather than to argue the point....but I have some experience of the needs of the disabled, as my mother is in a wheelchair....and she would give up ALL of her disability rights to be able to walk about.

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Having parents that are both now disabled I know how tight money is for them and how difficult it is so dont disagree with not having to pay for parking. My main complaint though is that there is not enough parent and child parking spaces and the normal bays just arent wide enough to get a young toddler out of either side (I have 17 month old twins), I really struggle!! And then just to annoy you further, i try to park in the middle of the bay to make life a little easier for me but when i come out you can guarantee that someone has parked a matter of inches from the side of me!!

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Bonnyboy, you may be right about the chunk of taxes that is allocated to the NHS....but would you prefer to have your parking free but no money to pay for medicines, treatments, and staff to take care of you when you are sick?......and as for the Road Tax......have a look at the state of the roads in this locality....do you think you get what you pay for in that respect?
If you don't like what you are getting for your money, then you know what to do with your X the next time it comes around to election time

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I'll agree with you on the point that disabled people may be less able to earn money, and have financial difficulties. BUT, what about other non-disabled patients who are also having financial difficulties? You don't have to be disabled to have difficulties in life, I mean ok, disabled people have a struggle in life, and it cant be a joy.. but we forget that everyone, whether disabled or not, could be in the same position financially. So the point I argue is that no-one should pay for the carpark, or if not - everyone should. (preferably no-one lol)

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Also, the hospital may argue, that by levying parking charges they are making the environment safer......CCTV cameras to watch over the site and make sure the activity taking place is safe and legal.
Parking charges are an unpleasant fact of life.....like so many other things the government want us to cough up for.

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I think that maybe if you really do have difficulty in paying the charges then someone at the reception could be spoken to and maybe you could get charges refunded....but if you are so strapped for cash....how do you run and adequately maintain a vehicle?......because that isn't cheap.

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Up there on the tops, there must be enough land to enable the car park to expand.

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Correction. *The government want us 'non disabled people' to cough up for.

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yes one of the previledges of being disabled no disrespect ment

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Maybe, whoever owns the land is not prepared to sell it to the hospital.

I know that before I retired, and before the new part of the hospital was built it was known that there would be problems over not enough parking......and that is over 5 years ago.

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Well of course I can financially run a car, but I did visit the hospital and find myself with no money, or no card etc. So I was bummed basically.

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No correction was necessary to my post. If you have such a big gripe over the said charges, then you could take it up with the Hospital Authority, rather than bleat about it on here, where it has no effect.
I am sure the Chief Executive (whose name, by the way, is Jo Cubbon) would welcome your views and would give you a much fuller picture than anyone on here ever could.

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So is it really wise to drive about in your car with no money......knowing that most places you go you are going to need change for parking, or petrol, or even the money for a phone call if you get stuck???

I drove to work every day.....took only the money for my food(or took sandwiches)...but I always had at least £5 in change somewhere in my vehicle.

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Generally, those who are disabled have to visit the hospital a lot more times than those who arent disabled and therefore would be paying a lot more than average joe for hospital parking in a year. I think its unfair to make them pay for parking. As for paying a few quid to park when I have to go to the hospital I dont complain, and being a single mum of 17 month twins I dont have a lot of money but dont grumble.

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i personly have been hospital 30 times in twelve months my mum who is disabled as been once in three years so not always the case

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Margaret, Jo Cubbon left her post here in April. She is now Chief Executive of Taunton and Somerset NHS Trust so I wouldn't advise anyone to write to her, I don't suppose she cares much about parking at the Royal Blackburn these days. :rolleyes:

I know what you meant though. Any beefs concerning parking or anything else would be best directed to the Chief Executive of East Lancashire NHS Trust (whoever that may be) rather than the members of Accyweb. :D

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True, but on the other hand my mum has been at hospital at least twice a week since new year. I have to make regular trips to the hospital also but a few quid here and there is hardly going to break the bank really

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The finacial benefits that disabled people are entitled to, are worked out to the last penny.

Perhaps you should lobby your M.P. to take away the free parking rights of blue badge holders, and have their money increased instead to pay parking fees like everyone else.

It would probably cost the government (who are of course funded by us) more money, but at least you won't feel hard done by.

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Garinda .. think you are losing the plot here. Thomas was just pointing out that not all Blue Badge holders are hard up .. could be an average that they may be, in that case, shouldn't we means test all sick parkers at the Hospitals.

I held a disabled badge for a short while .. but would not have had a problem in affording the charge, and coughed up willingly.

Sure there are lots of wealthy people that hold a Blue Badge.

They are separate issues to benefits in my opinion.

Think they are also exempt from congestion charges also .. that is also a can of worms.

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I'm positive that this is the case, I know we send a letter out to patients who are coming in for planned operations who are going to be in for several days. I'll have a look tomorrow and post back

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I'm not losing the plot.

Some mandarin in Whitehall works out exactly how much a disabled person is supposed to live on. I suppose free parking is considered a fringe benefit, in that not everyone is going to take advantage of it.

The alternative would be for the disabled to get paid more in offical benefits, and have to pay for parking like everyone else. This would in the long run cost the tax payer much more money.

Blue badge holders also get free car tax, and don't get fined if they park on single and double yellow lines for up to three hours, as long as they aren't causing an obstruction. A poor non-disabled driver would of course be fined for doing this.:D

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People over 75 don't have to pay for a tv licence, and those lucky enough to be registered blind only have to pay half of the £135.50 fee.

Life's just a bowl of cherries for some lucky beggars.:D

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lol some have it all

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Thanks.

Although my relative is now happily out, I'm sure a lot of people could benefit.

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There should have been a quote in that post but I seem to have mislaid it. :D

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Just as there are lots of people who get non-means tested child benefit money.

I heard Sarah, Duchess of York, could hardly afford to clothe her chauffeur, if it wasn't for the money she got for her two girls.:D

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Have they had their benefits checked to see if they are getting everything they are entitled too!! I can assure you that a couple who are both disabled will be entitled to a fair amount of disability benefits and carers allowance too!

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No she hasn't, she leaves this April, a replacement has not yet been found and confirmed.:D

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Thankyou Lettie.......I knew that she was leaving, but felt sure she hadn't gone yet.

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While I agree with some of your observations, it is clear to me that you have no concept of the vast amounts of money which are required to treat patients with life shortening illnesses(cancer).....if you look at the cost of drugs to treat things like Breast Cancer (herceptin) and Ovarian cancer(Paclitaxel/Taxol being just one of those drugs) and the cost of infertility treatments, and those were the things that were just in my field of expertise.....then you would know that whatever the government gives the NHS will always be eaten up by the needs of the people being treated.

Of course, like all organisations there will be what some people perceive as 'mismanagement'......perceptions which may or may not be correct.
In my opinion(and it is only my opinion)the greatest mismanagement is to run wards with low levels of staff, who are not allowed to do the job they want to do, purely because there isn't enough staff.
Do the powers that be listen to their staff? Well, what do you think?
I am glad to say that I left the NHS after 29 wonderful years.......you could see what was coming........I miss the patients, but I do not miss the petty bureaucracy, the chasing of government set targets, and the government meddling. The last two items are where a lot of money (your money) is wasted.....because the government change their mind about what they want.

I'm sorry for such a rambling (perhaps, off thread) post.

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Heres the gen on the parking

For the duration of the time a patient is in hospital for ever 3 consecutive days paid for a pass will be issued that will cover the next 4 visits. The visitor must take 3 consecutive days receipts which total £9.90 (taking that you visit twice a day at £1.80 per time) to the parking office in the main entrance and they will issue a pass that will allow you on the car park for the next 4 occasions.

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Always willing to do a U-turn on my opinion, after consulting my 'Planner'seems to be persuading me of my error. Sorry, Thomas, but fully understand your initial reaction. Comments as below:-

"Disabled people are less physically mobile than able bodied people. It
is therefore right that they are allowed access to a parking bay close
to their end destination. This means having the disabled only spaces
near to the entrances and exits of buildings - of which a hospital is
certainly an essential service.

Disabled people, by the very definition of 'disabled', are more likely
to suffer from a limiting and chronic illness. This, in turn, limits
their ability to work with many disabled people being reliant on
benefits. Charging them for car parking, while accessing an essential
health service, would only seek to unfairly exclude them from accessing
healthcare that they need. This would place their health at greater
risk - which is contrary to the principles of the NHS - healthcare for
all. This extends to accessing the services, not just having the
services on offer.

Car parking charges were introduced at hospitals for two main reasons:
to reduce the large volumes of workers and users visiting the hospital
by car and encourage travel by public transport and to raise revenue for
what essentially is the biggest tax burden (with the exception of the
armed forces) the government currently deals with. Everybody wants free
healthcare - nobody wants higher taxes. Reducing travel by car is a
core government policy.

As for congestion charging, is it right that disabled people are exempt
from a charge, given that the overall aim is to reduce the number of car
trips? What difference does being disabled make? You are still on the
road and contributing to pollution and congestion. However, there is a
social equity argument to consider here. Certain groups of people
require access to essential services and are more likely to use the car
to access those services. For instance, disabled people have a more
legitimate reason to use a car than an able bodied person. Charging
them to travel by car would only seek to exclude them further from
society (they are already excluded from many activities/places just
because they cannot negotiate the locales). In a just society we should
make provision for ensuring everyone benefits from the privileges we
enjoy - and privileges we as able bodied people often take for granted -
have you ever tried to climb stairs in a wheelchair?!


Whilst I agree there is some abuse of the blue badge system, it is
unfair to penalise genuine long term disability sufferers because of the
abuse of inconsiderate individuals. They are abusing the system
intentionally and are therefore the culpable people committing an
illegal act. This is not enough to condemn the whole system.

I suppose it depends whether you agree that disabled people have more of
a right to use a car than able bodied people - some people won't agree
with that. It won't change the government's view on it though - that we
should make provision for including all groups in society - despite
disability, poverty, sickness, ethnic background etc.

After all, ensuring everyone is cared for is what separates us from the
animals capable of free thought and compassion. "

:rolleyes: Put like this, don't feel I can disagree anymore.

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Parking in hospital car parks is difficult at the best of times and that includes for staff - some hospitals do not have staff car parks which could be a deciding factor as to whether you are going to take a job there or not.
I suppose you could say I retired over hospital car parking. It was decided where I worked (which was out in the sticks) that, for the staff, they would pay a set sum per month, can't remember what it was - this would be paid whether you were on sick leave, annual leave, or whatever. You would have no choice because it would be deducted at source. (This was thought to be illegal) One consultant resigned - hospitals often have visiting doctors - if they can't park, the patient can't be seen. I decided to go because I'd had enough anyway and went to work at the nearest hospital which I could walk to.
Patients have no choice of course. But sometimes I think the patient is pretty low in the pecking order and hospitals tend to forget their very existence is for the benefit of their patients. What happens if you are kept waiting for your appt - you will run out of time on your parking ticket and heaven forbid you should be admitted direct from an out-patient appointment. It is possible to reclaim the fine but if you are disabled, having got back to your car, realised you have got a fine which is no fault of yours, your misery is added to by having to go back into the hospital and fill in a claim form! All in all I do agree with free parking and designated parking for the disabled.

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Maybe the parking fee's should be put to good use as in put all the money into that hospital and have a sign on display saying how much was raised and what the money went towards, and how it benefited the hospital, i think if you can see where the money is being spent then it should make you proud of being a part of making a difference, i dont think you should be charged for parking if you have an appointment, i dont think you should pay for parking if you attend a&e either, my sis lost her baby a few years back we had no money for parking and the nurse write out a note for us to stick on the car to explain why we had no ticket, i dont use blackburn hospital the last time i did i was in labour 1999 when we got to the hosp there was no parking we had to park on the road leading to highercroft, wrong time to go into labour visiting hrs, i know its all changed now but i dont know what the parking is like now

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Lets not also forget that some disabled people would be eligible for transportation by ambulace for their hospital appointments. Which would cost a hell of a lot more than if they made there own way there.

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As was clear from the second half of the post, which you either didn't bother to read ....or maybe you need to learn to read.

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Maybe I do. =/

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My apologies, Margaret. :o

I thought that she had already gone.

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No apology needed Lilly :)

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Instead of asking about why disabled people do not pay for parking you should be asking why ANYONE has to pay to park near a hospital whilst visiting it.

After all there are two types of people going to hospital. The sick for treatment or consultations and people visiting the sick in hospital. Neither wants to be there but they are forced to attend out of circumstances.

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