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Jae Swift 15-03-2008 08:08
If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Merseyside asylum seeker’s £25,000 benefits fraud
Mar 11 2008 by Luke Traynor, Liverpool Echo

AN IRANIAN asylum seeker who falsely claimed £25,000 of benefits has been ordered to pay back £1.

Dishonest Massoud Montazery, 29, claimed money from the state even though he had £500,000 in a separate bank account.

Yesterday, a Proceeds of Crime application took place at Liverpool crown court for him to pay back his ill-gotten gains.

But as Montazery had no recoverable assets, the confiscation order of £24,973.67 could not proceed.

Instead, he was told the pay back a nominal fee of just £1.

The bizarre ruling is expected to infuriate taxpayers who are now bearing the brunt of the Iranian’s benefit pinching.

Montazery, from St Mary’s Road, Walton, was given thousands of pounds which paid for his Liverpool home, gas, electricity, water and council tax.

He was caught in November 2005 after investigators saw a BMW and an X-type Jaguar outside his house.

His comfortable lifestyle was exposed which revealed designer clothes, a fur coat for his wife and a luxury new carpet.

He made repeated denials to immigration officials about having a bank account, but his considerable finances and job at a baby equipment firm in Liverpool was soon revealed.

He admitted two counts of making false statements to obtain benefits at court and received a suspended nine-month jail term, 100 hours’ unpaid work and a two-year supervision order.

The question of Montazery’s likely deportation back to Iran appeared to move a step closer yesterday.

It is thought he has exhausted all avenues of appeal and the process to press for deportation continues.

A date has yet to be fixed but Montazery could be ordered to leave within two months.

He had claimed that he was being pursued by the Iranian authorities.

lancsdave 15-03-2008 08:13
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Don't worry about it, I'll pay extra tax next year to help make up for the losses incurred by the greedy bastard and our inept government departments :mad:

beechy 15-03-2008 08:24
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 546312)
Don't worry about it, I'll pay extra tax next year to help make up for the losses incurred by the greedy bastard and our inept government departments :mad:
good on you LD if there was more citizens like
yourself we could maintain the status quo and support these
worthy immigrates ;)
or lets just ship them back ASAP :D

lancsdave 15-03-2008 08:33
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
In some ways you can't blame people for cheating the system when they know they will get away with it. Lets face it the lack of morals grows on a daily basis, not be long before the education secretary puts it on the school cirriculum. I get more annoyed at how easy we make it for anyone, and that includes our own.

jaysay 15-03-2008 08:59
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
I think like Jae says in the original post that if that had have been joe blogs who's lived in say Ossy all his life, he would have had to pay all the money back and done serious jail time in the bargin. Why is it we let these people, who as it says are seeking asylum in our country, get away with it. we're supposedly saving these people from persecution and all they do is continually kick us in the b******s, I for one am sick to the back teeth of it.:eek::mad::mad:

MargaretR 15-03-2008 09:00
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
If more people reported fraud when they see it, it would improve the detection rate.
I understand that some people fear that the fraudster will harass them for telling, but now the fraud can be reported anonymously via the web, by using this online form
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

blazey 15-03-2008 09:24
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 546321)
If more people reported fraud when they see it, it would improve the detection rate.
I understand that some people fear that the fraudster will harass them for telling, but now the fraud can be reported anonymously via the web, by using this online form
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/
They get alerted when they're going to be inspected though and hide the evidence.

Obviously this guy is either a bit slow on the uptake or HE wasn't alerted at all, which would make me want to think that someone somewhere wasn't quite playing by the rulebook either.

MargaretR 15-03-2008 11:16
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 546326)
They get alerted when they're going to be inspected though and hide the evidence.

Obviously this guy is either a bit slow on the uptake or HE wasn't alerted at all, which would make me want to think that someone somewhere wasn't quite playing by the rulebook either.
They don't get alerted !!
Who on Earth told you that rubbish?

The facts about how they operate are not even revealed to their fellow civil servants. Since they became a separate Government Agency of their own Fraud Agency officers have developed professionalism.

Loz 15-03-2008 11:33
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 546326)
They get alerted when they're going to be inspected though and hide the evidence.

Obviously this guy is either a bit slow on the uptake or HE wasn't alerted at all, which would make me want to think that someone somewhere wasn't quite playing by the rulebook either.
Why do students think they know it all?
What would the point be of having an anonymous benefits fraud line if the person you were reporting was alerted to the fact that they were going to be investigated?
I don't dislike you but please think through what you are going to type before you post.
You always seem to get shot down in flames.

garinda 15-03-2008 11:34
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
No recoverable assets?

What about the Jag and the BMW?

Plus, I'd rip his new carpets up, and have the fur coat of his wife's back, before booting his arse back to Iran.

Neil 15-03-2008 11:47
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 546321)
If more people reported fraud when they see it, it would improve the detection rate.
Why bother reporting it when they do nothing to the fraudsters when they catch them?

Jae Swift 15-03-2008 11:53
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 546356)
No recoverable assets?

What about the Jag and the BMW?

Plus, I'd rip his new carpets up, and have the fur coat of his wife's back, before booting his arse back to Iran.
:yelrotflm:yelrotflm:yelrotflm:yelrotflm

jaysay 15-03-2008 12:19
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loz (Post 546355)
Why do students think they know it all?
What would the point be of having an anonymous benefits fraud line if the person you were reporting was alerted to the fact that they were going to be investigated?
I don't dislike you but please think through what you are going to type before you post.
You always seem to get shot down in flames.
Thats why they're students loz, well some of them. and we don't shoot her down in flames, its just in a blaze:D

MargaretR 15-03-2008 12:38
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 546360)
Why bother reporting it when they do nothing to the fraudsters when they catch them?
Courts can't always hand out penalties we think are deserved.
Sometimes the Fraud Agency decide on no prosecution but get the money back.

If fraud was reported earlier there would be less money handed to fraudsters - less to recover

and there would be more money for those who are entitled to it

When you don't report it you are in effect robbing yourself whether you pay the taxes that fund it, or get the benefits.

cashman 15-03-2008 13:01
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 546354)
They don't get alerted !!
Who on Earth told you that rubbish?

The facts about how they operate are not even revealed to their fellow civil servants. Since they became a separate Government Agency of their own Fraud Agency officers have developed professionalism.
what do you know Margaret? ya only worked fer em all yer natural,Blazey is at uni.:rolleyes:

mani 15-03-2008 15:31
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
they cant recover anything as most likely half the stuff wasnt in his name. thats where the govt gets caught out and these criminals get away wtih it... its the whole having a fwe accounts in different names of ppl u trust who are legit

Loz 15-03-2008 16:29
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 546379)
Thats why they're students loz, well some of them. and we don't shoot her down in flames, its just in a blaze:D
LOL:D
Having never been a student myself (college or uni) i have never understood the know it all attitude they give off constantly!

jaysay 16-03-2008 11:00
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loz (Post 546450)
LOL:D
Having never been a student myself (college or uni) i have never understood the know it all attitude they give off constantly!
Niether have I los, but at 61 I'm big enough and ugly enough to say I don't know it all, and at my age I'm still learning. When I first started work there was one thing you never said to your elders and that was "I KNOW" because they'd never tell you anything again if you did:rolleyes:

derekgas 16-03-2008 18:13
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
I once got this response from an immigrant who was in the pub drinking his benefit money, and I asked why he claimed benefits and house etc when he worked, he said 'because I can, because your system allows it' enough said, and enough blaming the benefit cheats, it is the system that nees to change, if we could get away with it, how many would'nt?

MikeSz 17-03-2008 12:10
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 546823)
I once got this response from an immigrant who was in the pub drinking his benefit money, and I asked why he claimed benefits and house etc when he worked, he said 'because I can, because your system allows it' enough said, and enough blaming the benefit cheats, it is the system that nees to change, if we could get away with it, how many would'nt?
I think some would say there are already too many people doing it - but this is a very hot topic indeed. Its the old welfareism vs going out and getting a job and there are already plenty of threads that relate to it on here. I heard someone say only this weekend that there is now a fourth class of people (as opposed to upper, middle and working) which is the welfare class - those who have no intention of going to work and will quite happily consume daytime TV all day. I dont however think that anyone is going to be able to solve that one anytime soon.

cashman 17-03-2008 14:58
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSz (Post 547125)
I think some would say there are already too many people doing it - but this is a very hot topic indeed. Its the old welfareism vs going out and getting a job and there are already plenty of threads that relate to it on here. I heard someone say only this weekend that there is now a fourth class of people (as opposed to upper, middle and working) which is the welfare class - those who have no intention of going to work and will quite happily consume daytime TV all day. I dont however think that anyone is going to be able to solve that one anytime soon.
Think the real problem is MikeSz nobody has the political guts to solve this problem, same as the immigration one, Enoch Powell once took the bull by the horns and was DESTROYED politically for doing so. theres too many of the P.C. brigade nowadays, sad but true.:(

jaysay 17-03-2008 17:08
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 547178)
Think the real problem is MikeSz nobody has the political guts to solve this problem, same as the immigration one, Enoch Powell once took the bull by the horns and was DESTROYED politically for doing so. theres too many of the P.C. brigade nowadays, sad but true.:(
Cashy its not even sad its a disgrace:mad:

motherhubbard 17-03-2008 18:15
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
I have been tols that anyone coming to work in England from the EU can claim child allowance even if the children are still living in the country where they came from. Have we gone mad.
We in my opinion would not get the same treatment abroad and are expected to adopt their lifestyle and culture. We seem to liedown, and roll over for every one to walk over.
I was working in London last week (which I do a lot) and the area I was in was totally restructured to a different lifestyle than English.
I have forms that have to be completed for Ethnicity every ethnic origin is on there, but not English.
I have got very worried over the last twelve months that we may be swallowed up and taken over before people realise what has happened.
Am I being paranoid???

cashman 17-03-2008 18:31
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
yer not paranoid mother hubbard,yer correct, its a national disgrace,as jaysay puts it. n the blame cannot be put at the door of any party, they are all as bad,as history has proved.:(

LancYorkYankee 17-03-2008 19:07
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
What a sad state of affairs. Rulings like this will just encourage even more piking off the system. We have many of these same problems like this over here but at least those caught suffer the consequences.

IMO, the US' reform of the welfare system during the Reagan years has done a great job at getting able body people back into the work force. It is my understanding that many of these people, though very reluctant at first, have become good workers. This has helped them to break a long cycle of families stuck in the American welfare trap.

It has also made them valued tax payers! Hence the government has even more money to waste of their pet projects or expensive call girls;)!

cashman 17-03-2008 19:10
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee (Post 547306)
What a sad state of affairs. Rulings like this will just encourage even more piking off the system. We have many of these same problems like this over here but at least those caught suffer the consequences.

IMO, the US' reform of the welfare system during the Reagan years has done a great job at getting able body people back into the work force. It is my understanding that many of these people, though very reluctant at first, have become good workers. This has helped them to break a long cycle of families stuck in the American welfare trap.

It has also made them valued tax payers! Hence the government has even more money to waste of their pet projects or expensive call girls;)!
well the yanks may not be perfect,but at least they did summat about it,more than i can say for our "Gutless" lot.

steeljack 17-03-2008 19:19
Re: If This Happened To A Non-Immigrant English Person..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee (Post 547306)
IMO, the US' reform of the welfare system during the Reagan years has done a great job at getting able body people back into the work force. It is my understanding that many of these people, though very reluctant at first, have become good workers. This has helped them to break a long cycle of families stuck in the American welfare trap.
Brian, sorry to burst your Republican bubble but the US welfare reform act was introduced and passed during the 1st Clinton term in 1996, yep, the bad ole nasty Democrats did it

Welfare Reform Turns Ten: Evidence Shows Reduced Dependence, Poverty
by Christine Kim and Robert Rector
WebMemo #1183
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) replaced the failed social program Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) with a block grant program, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF). The reform legislation had three goals: 1) to reduce welfare dependence and increase employment; 2) to reduce child poverty; and 3) to reduce out-of-wedlock childbearing and strengthen marriage. In the ten years since its enactment, welfare reform has succeeded in each of these areas.


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