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ALSO, whilst we're on it, kids don't tend to sit at the front in the seats reserved for the elderly, only when the bus is full up. Why is it that people always blame the youth? I very rarely see children on the bus full stop unless its the early morning run, and that can easily be avoided with buses running as often as they do. And if you think thats brutal, you must be seriously lacking strength of mind. What sort of a come back is grow up? |
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my god, would love to know what kind of buses you travel on. Have ya never tried Accy after school has just finished. Yes, kids get a negative press, but at the end of the day, a group of young lads can easily intimidate a lot of people, let alone the elderley, whether justified or not.
It p*sses me off that theres an old lady who lives round the corner from me that wont open her door after dark, and even blokes it with a chair as kids hang around the shops nr her. No one should live with that fear. And why the hell should people have to avoid buses at a certain time???? The grow up comment, purely made as you seem to live in your own idealistic child. Usually as you grow older, it becomes apparent that life is not just black and white, as you seem to view it. For someone that harps on about students and the fact that fat people annoy you, you seem to have a very immature opinion |
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I would say that is usually the kids that are sitting in the bay reserved for prams and wheelchairs but we arent allowed to take prams on buses according to Blazeys law!
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Firstly, I said it was wrong to whinge about 3 wheeled prams when they were only disallowed for health and safety policy, which have now been altered.
Secondly, most youngsters run straight to the back to sit on the back seats or the seats facing each other. Anyone who has ever used a school bus will know that on a single decker, these are like the Alpha seats of the bus, and on a double decker that status moves to being upstairs. It's all about not being seen by the driver, and these seats are what used to be the ones hidden best from view until CCTV was introduced on buses. You forget that with my childish attitude and age I am still old enough to be one of these so called intimidating youths, at least according to the average age of the oswaldtwistle chav. |
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at the end of the day, everyone is at an age where they can be intimidating, dependant on how they are acting.
The reason i used school kids and youngsters as an example is purely as the nation does have such a bad view of these youngsters, and for an old lady who is having happy slapping images thrown across her tv screen at every opportunity, she will at the very least, be nervous. How did we get onto this from post office closures???? |
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Either way she'll have to walk somewhere whether its to the bus stop or to the post office... if anything an elderly lady would be at more risk from assault OFF the bus than on it. Also, people don't help the stereotypes of young people when they use it as examples like that. You tell a teen that they are something and they tend to act that way. For anyone watching Eastenders right now, you will be able to see just that happening with lovely Lucy Beale. |
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I like this photo it's much better than the last one :D
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see attachments - thought they make interesting reading about what is happening behind he scenes?
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Blazey when you do eventually grow up and enter the real world earning a wage etc.. and paying bills then i reckon your attitude will change very quickly.
I hate going on a bus full of schoolkids i find it very intimidating so god knows how eldrly people must feel. |
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Gordon Prentice the Labour MP for Pendle managed to look at the issue, realise that suspending the post offices to look at them again was a good idea, and voted with the Conservatives (God forbid). |
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Besides, I might have said similar, except me dad comes on here, and even at the age of 32, I try not to swear in front of him lmao |
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Why didn't Peter Britcliffe just e-mail Greg Pope, his question?
It would have saved us, the council tax payers, the cost of the stationery, and postage. I believe council letters go through their own franking machine, so it's not even as if he was keeping his local Post Office in business. |
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***goes back under her stone*** ;) Sorry! |
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I see that Greg Pope has voted in favour of the closures today.
How Labour MPs voted on post office closures - Telegraph Wasn't he campaigning locally to keep them open, or have I dreamt that? :confused: |
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...and we've all paid for it.
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Peter got 12,000 votes and Greg 18,000 at the last General election. For me the letters reflect people's view of both candidates. Peter has his supporters, Greg has his. Peter clearly needs to be a lot more committed to Hyndburn, and stop being dishonest if he is to seriously do a better job than Greg. In his leaders column this week Peter was at it again telling more lies about Labour*. He will never get past 12,000 votes IMHO whilst he has that attitude. * Labour tabled on simple budget amendment - Council Tax 2% - it was defeated and the Conservatives voted through their 5% rise instead. The Labour 40 ideas - many cost little or nothing, policy reviews, new code of conduct for Councillors, changing all of the committee structure to stop the sleaze and corruption. All of it was within a smaller budget than the Conservatives. On the spending side, most or nearly all them involved the spending of an extra £4m the Government has given Hyndburn - not current expenditure. Peter knew this because I told him but thought he could get some extra votes by misleading the public. Deja Vu every year. Last year he made up scare stories about Rubbish Tax and Car Parking Charges. It's funny at times (when it's not depressing). Like living in an African banana republic, no matter what the dictator does he get's elected. |
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and jaysay......what's your answer (forget others - you've got a big mouth so let's hear it)... public subsidy???????? or market forces???????.....:hidewall::hidewall::hidewall: |
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Heh Jaysay... given all the noise your lot are making on this here in Hyndburn... how come Hyndburn Council is not one the Councils that has applied ?????? :theband::theband:
Is Clr Britcliffe committing the Council to spending up to £72,000 (and beyond with recruitment of new postmasters) propping up the 4 closures? You said Tories will save them .... how??? You have an opportunity to make a positive decision and back up your words. :hidewall: COUNCILS GIVEN GREEN LIGHT TO SAVE POST OFFICES Post Office managers must co-operate fully with innovative plans by local councils to save their local branches from closure, ministers said today. More than 50 councils now want to save threatened branches, offering rescue packages of £18,000 per branch over three years from council tax receipts. Sir Simon Milton (Conservative), chairman of the LGA, was quoted: “It is a huge step in the right direction that the Minister has instructed Post Office Limited to enter into discussions with councils who have put forward proposals to save some of their local branches. Telegraph p8, Guardian p14, FT p2, Express p2 MP rebellion fails to stop post office closures - Telegraph |
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I would at least expect you to have some form of clue about what is going on in the world of Politics. The last general election was not even fought by Peter Britcliffe in Hyndburn. You seem to believe that the whole election was based on a cult of personality, he's just an ordinary man, you might want to think about policy at elections because thats usually what people care about. You bat on about these 40 uncosted items, I'd like to know what they were if we are to believe your story. It isn't however very belivable right now, because you talk about corruption, you talk about sleeze, you talk about misleading people, then you go ahead and tell us the Conservatives are raising tax by 5% when its actually 3.7% Last time we had a Labour council we were £2million in debt, now we're 500k in the positive. Are you sure 2% increase is well costed and isn't just for votes? Is it any wonder people don't trust Labour with the council when you'd be in charge? |
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Lets just get the figures straight, that's £72,000 over three years so £24,000 a year, what happens after the 3 years? The Conservatives proposals revolved around turning post offices into profitable businesses and there were a range of ideas debated. The Government need to make these changes so that sub-post offices can compete and they seem reluctant to so far (hence closing them all as seemingly a first option). Which means the council have to run them at a loss if they're not allowed to try and make them profitable. I don't know the full details of the budgets, but if budgets have already been drawn up, what would you cut from your 2% tax budget to fund this? |
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you should go to bed if ya tired jaysay........:D
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Since it's apparent to anyone who has bothered to read this thread, that I'm not in favour of unprofitable Post Offices being supoorted with tax payer's money ad infinitum, I didn't think a comment is necessary, but if you insist... Well done Greg Pope, for doing what you believe to be right, and not listening to the hysterical mob. That do you? |
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So the reason you asked was? Strange all these Conservatives shouting that they want public money to be used to keep unprofitable businesses open, when for nearly twenty years Mrs Thatcher insisted just the opposite, when she privatised so many other services and industries, because she said they were haemorrhaging tax payer's money. |
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Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I have no political axe to grind.
I am not, and never have been, a member of any political party. I just say what I think to be right, and in this case I think those that voted with the government were right. |
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...Do the rest of us not matter? |
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Ahhhhhhhhh. Now I understand and must apologise for being a little 'numb' on the backgrounds lol |
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He may cope, but to be honest, his posts on here has changed my voting tendencies.
Probs not the way he wanted either |
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Received via pm, from Cyfr.
Sorry for quoting your message here, but I'm not carrying on the debate here and also by pm. [Quote Cyfr/]Thatcher privatised industries that were still going to exist after privatisation, only with lower costs to the customer because of competition. The post office isn't like that though is it, it's important to many people, perhaps most important in more rural areas. I'm not advocating running the network at huge dramatic lost to the tax payer, but it seems sensible to at least give the sub-post offices a chance to compete. I do think we should be subsidising the rurals, because they don't have alternatives in the same way we do. The post office network was still profitable under the Tories. Labour took various aspects away from them (such as the whole pensions by DD), which is good, but they didn't look at it from a business point of view and say "Well if we're taking that away, maybe we should let them compete in other areas". If at the end of the day we can't turn them around into profits (the urban ones), then fair enough we should look at closure, but it almost seems like they've not even looked at the other options before deciding to close them. Another notable point is that when post offices close, surrounding businesses tend to suffer too, theres a study about it but I can't find it as it was just referenced in the debate. So the economic impact is more than just getting our money back from the post office, as we will lose tax elsewhere.[quote/] Dramatic loss? Four million pounds per week, to me is a dramatic loss, especially as the figure is constantly rising, and will continure to do so, as more and more people chose to shop for their services eleswhere. |
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As for figures, there are so many brandished around I have no idea which are correct in terms of how much money they're actually losing :p |
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I'd also be against public money being used to bolster other unprofitabe businesses, such as pubs, which many people also see as being at the heart of their communities. It's a shame when they close, but market forces, and the numbers of people actually using them, decide what is, and what isn't, a viable business proposition. |
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i think greg pope, jack straw n the other labour MPs who didn't mind having photos taken to keep post offices open, then voted with the government to close em, should hang their heads in shame,from my standpoint it was totally spineless, and the main reason i washed my hands of the labour party, :(
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Why can't we let the market work and actually allow them to compete? There are so many restrictions on the sub-post offices they can't compete. Allow them to deal with private carriers, sell more products and services. If they're still losing loads of money after that then fair enough, but at least give it a chance. |
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No, I read all, and not selectively. How long do you suggest we continue pouring tax payer's money down the bottomless pit, before something is done to stop it? Do you advocate state intervention, and funding, for any other small businesses? |
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know what yer saying rindy,but the pit may not just have to be bottomless if other factors like competition came into play.
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I'm trying to get the state out of the post office, give the postmasters a chance to be able to compete, trying to turn profits around so we don't need to fund. Of course I agree with state regulation, which is intervention, a completely free market doesn't work. Numerous other businesses are subsidised, such as the bus and rail services. |
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Why a year? Are you hoping by then that the Conservatives will be in power, and will then be able to say, well at least we tried (for a year,) and the inevitable closures will go ahead regardless, because people of this country have chosen to take their business elsewhere? It's so much easier being in opposition, and not having to think about the reality of a problem, and it's long term solution. |
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I'm proposing this because I believe we should be at least making an effort. I know you think I'm doing it to gain one up on Labour, and that's the stick I'll have to take for being a member of a political party, but I simply don't see the point in dumping it, writing the other options off without trying them. |
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We seem to be going round in circles, so I fear we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Anyway I'm off to renew my car tax...on-line, but I'll leave you a little gift. http://www.casdon.co.uk/prod_images/532lg.jpg I want to see you've made a profit by Easter next year, otherwise I'll be shutting you down.:D |
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I spoke with Cashman in Sydney St club and I admitted if people have Conservative views when I am out canvassing, I don't encourage them to vote for me. I tell them to vote Conservative and I have even told them why they should vote Conservative. That's just being honest and helping them represent their views. I wouldn't be able accept when I got home that someone had voted for me because I had managed to pull the wool over their eye's. That's not me. |
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[quote=g jones;549841]Democracy is about freedom of speech and freedom to choose. If other Councillors came on and the debate was opened up, I think it would make for a better Hyndburn.
I spoke with Cashman in Sydney St club and I admitted if people have Conservative views when I am out canvassing, I don't encourage them to vote for me. I tell them to vote Conservative and I have even told them why they should vote Conservative. That's just being honest and helping them represent their views. I wouldn't be Good grief something we can agree on Graham, my sentiments entirely. I was on the knocker a few years ago and I had with me a very keen newcomer, we were in knuzden at the time. There was a house with a Labour poster in the window and this young man was walking up the path, I asked where he was going,he replied I'll try to change their minds. Shaking my head, I said anyone who has a poster in their window ain't going to change and I wouldn't even insult their intelligence by trying, besides that its just wasting our time, I only hope he learned a lesson that night. Just for the benefit of WalkonBRFC i'm not answering Grahams ost I'm agreeing with him:D |
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I don't know what happened on my post 173, I was actully quoting on g.jones post 168, put it hasn't appeared like that, its just like a continuation of that post, gremlins are afoot on Accy Web :confused::confused: Maybe mods could have a look at it, strange very strange
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Our best ideas last year went straight on Tory leaflets as 'Tory ideas'. We want the Council to do well but last year people said they were voting Tory because they liked the (Labour!) ideas being put forward on Tory leaflets. It's was dishonest from a dishonest party and it won't happen again. Quote:
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Tories won power in 1999. Council £11m in debt. Three years of Tories £22m in debt. December 2001 Clr B calls in City Accountants De Loitte Touche. Money going missing (not frwaud - incompetence). De Loitte Touch agree money going missing. Robson Rhodes Council auditors annual report summary 2000, 2001, 2002 - financial incompetence. De Loitte Touch report back may 2002 - Labour win elections. Labour Councillors told Council bankrupt - panic - can't trace the money - poor accounting. De Loitte Touche says can't afford the wages. You need to get rid of staff. Redundancy programme begins. Britcliffe blames redundancy programme for eating into Council finances. £40,000 is removed from his Litter Comission to Finance as the computer system is from the dark ages. Hyndburn ranked with Tower Hamlets, 2nd from bottom. New system put in. Britcliffe screams labour don't care about litter. Labour decide to get rid of senior management. Uncover scale of debts. End of year debts/overspending revealed to be £2milllion a year. New management put in place. 5 year plan put together. Council financial systems shaken up. Britcliffe opposes all these measures. Objects to his officers being got rid of. Council turned around. Britcliffe wins election and claims it was all him. The 500k 1. Council tax has gone up 67%. £3.5m to £5.25m. 2. Gov't grants have gone up from £5.9m to £9m excluding concessionary fares and HB. +65% 3. Council service budgets have all been slashed by 30% and told to get on with it. So there are a lot of hidden problems not on the balance sheets Total Budget 1999 - £8.4m Total Budget 2008 - £15.0m Council cuts 30% If we had been rate capped our budget would be £12m. Our debts year on year minus £3m and thats with the 30% cuts. We are the most expensive Council in Britain. You can now see why Labour Councillors are angry. People are being ripped off with incompetence. Quote:
"Give the people their money back, it's not yours it's their's" .... Peter Britcliffe budget attack on Labour in 2003 Quote:
The Tories have lost £600,000 on a Hyndburn Life, £500,000 on Leisure Services in the last 12 months. Those are just the big ticket failure's. We have been told our multi million loans programme is a disaster and FORCED!! to change it. I argued for a change, that it was costing Hyndburn residents a fortune, and I worked behind the scene's to expose the incompetence. I saved the authority another shed load. If I had been in charge I would have saved even more. I saved the flats development and ensured another shed load of financial add on's was put in the deal. The Market Hall. Its still chao's. It took 3 years for the Council to almost arrive at the right position but now I have been kicked off for being too successful in pushing policy. This is a big subject that I go on an don about Tory incompetence. Your a very confused easily influence young man who is entitled to his opnion but whose opinions are very dangerous because they contain less than 5% of the truth. You do not represent anyone but yourself. The ordinary person never voted for you. Weird and wacky people often in desperation claim the title of 'people's champion'. To be that Cyfr you need to go to the ballot box. You promote idea that I am stupid, corrupt, and other slur's. Politics of desperation. Come to Peel Ward, open you eye's, I'll take you around. If your honest enough you'll take up the offer. |
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And I would add... I wouldn't compromise public safety by handing out Taxi Licences to convicted sex offenders. There is more to that story than can be proven absolutely.
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Blimey that's a big post :D |
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Didn't leave ebnough time to make breakfast!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D |
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Well Cyfr mate i think GJ has made you a wonderful offer, ya can meet up with him n go round the ward etc etc, if you do, you will have a great oppertunity to come back here n tell the truth as you have seen it. have ya got the gumption?
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Worries me that as a student of politics he appears to be very narrow in his views and not looking at all aspects of this subject, which I would expect any student to do, then make your mind up which way you swing. |
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Well thats fair play. I dont class myself as strict conservative or strict labour. I try and listen to both points of view and decide which I agree with, however the post office closure is only one point, and one that doesnt really affect me personally. What I didnt like was the way that you apeared to answer or single out one person, whether or not other people had commented. I have a vote, and so I have a voice, even if just a little one. However the above post has eliminated that somewhat |
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I think perhaps I am out of my depth on this post, as I dont have die hard beliefs, so i'll rid myself lol |
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I can't argue with the whole history, I haven't been apart of the council to counter argue or even know if you're telling the whole story, but you seem to claim the council is incompetent, yet they're rated excellent by an independent board. Additionally, you mention spending the £500k in order to fund your low tax, well thats just the complete wrong way about it. Save when the times are good, to use when the times are not so good. The times could get much worse than they are now economically, don't be so irresponsible. Quote:
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Again the politicians of the forum alienate everyone with their own little tiff. So often you both talk about changing politics and letting people stand by their political beliefs and yet you fight so strongly to win us. You're both as bad as each other :rolleyes: |
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The Conservatives are saying keep open the Post Offices so they win votes, not because it's the correct decision economically. He's saying sell stuff in post offices and yet most do an they're still shutting down. I just don't think its the answer and so I am happy to go against my Tory side and be realistic. |
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Secondly. Clr Britcliffe calls County 'the evil empire'. Inefficient etc... Strange situation!? Quote:
The Audit Commision did not look at policies or effectiveness. However Clr Britcliffe is now implying to people we are 1) an excellent Council with excellent policies 2) It's all down to him. We have £1.8m in the bank. This was to bank a further 500k. The advice to the Tories is to keep 5% of budget banked for a rainy day (750k). The reason for this is we are taxing the local economy too heavily. We are now the most expensive Council in Britain with 8.1% of incomes going on Council Tax. When I put the 2% I said 5% was Tax Tax Tax for no reason. The reason the reserves were empty was a serious of disastrous policies between 1999-2002 as highlighted by auditors and city analysts called in by Clr Britcliffe. Quote:
We will then go to a residents meeting and you can read out those words you said about me to voters in Peel. That way you have had the best chance to further your own cause and criticisms. |
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