Accrington Web - mr britcliffe

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lindsay ormerod

27-04-2008 21:10

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568494)

I didn't claim that they took £10k a day every day, and are both of those shops now closed down?

Yes though that's not the point and I now work at a well known high street chemists and we don't take that kind of money either ! :rolleyes:

andrewb

27-04-2008 21:17

Re: mr britcliffe

Very comparable! Lots of money exchange hands with NHS prescriptions!

Even at £2,000 from an industry in decline, that's £730,000 a year on average without taking Christmas takings into account. Rent at £25,000 isn't that much is it? Was music zone rent even as much as that?

Bonnyboy

27-04-2008 21:29

Re: mr britcliffe

The 25k rent is for quite a small outlet not that there are larege ones within the Arndale, formerly Cryer’s I think. I’m sure that for something along the lines of Music Zone you would be talking around the 50k mark…stand to be corrected.

cashman

27-04-2008 21:47

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnyboy (Post 568504)

yer correct it was 25k fer that (box) that used to be Cryers,sure rent is based on area of the premises, also sure cyfr is aware of that also, reckon hes trying damned hard to make a name fer himself, well on the way also.:rolleyes:

garinda

27-04-2008 21:49

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568499)

Can I ask why your father decided to leave his large town centre retail premises, and just concentrate on his market stall?

Any connection to costs?

katex

27-04-2008 21:55

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568499)

Even at £2,000 from an industry in decline, that's £730,000 a year on average without taking Christmas takings into account. Rent at £25,000 isn't that much is it? Was music zone rent even as much as that?

Lindsay only talking about turn over here Cyfr .. lot different to profit.

andrewb

27-04-2008 21:56

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 568517)

Not trying to make a name for myself, especially in this thread because I don't have the facts to hand. I ain't going to argue it really passionately either way, I'm just offering some alternative thinking, it may be that rent is high and I'd accept that once I've seen some proper evidence of it.

I thought music zone made a profit too by the way? (to lindsey)

andrewb

27-04-2008 21:57

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 568519)

Lindsay only talking about turn over here Cyfr .. lot different to profit.

Yeah I know that's why I'm not arguing it passionately. I don't have the profit figures, or what I'd really want if I was to strongly argue either way, a breakdown of cost.

andrewb

27-04-2008 21:58

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 568518)

Can I ask why your father decided to leave his large town centre retail premises, and just concentrate on his market stall?

Any connection to costs?

The shops were owned and he left due to the semi-retirement of my uncle and grandad (since now they only work market days as opposed to 6 days a week).

Royboy39

27-04-2008 22:01

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568499)

Good God Lad you have a lot to learn.
25 grand is a hell of a lot of money and Rates on top of that takes a lot of earning...add to that employees wages,insurance,tax and the other expenses which are incured in running a business make you wonder why you dont work for someone else and not risk your own money.

10 Grand a day is fantasy....maybe to Asda...Yes.
get some of your fellow students to go round traders and ask the right questions of the traders and you will learn how hard it is to run a business.
When you get into the real world people will tell you....forget all that was taught at college....forget the advice from people who have never lost money running a business and don't be swayed by political bullsh1t.

garinda

27-04-2008 22:03

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 568492)

:rofl38: 'Many a true word spoken in jest' .. always plenty of repeat customers in this game. Hey, Garinda ... am bored .. perhaps we could go 50/50 .. one in Ossy, one in Clayton. Am I joking ? not quite sure.. :D

Nevermind us setting up in business going into competition with Accy's legal brothel, how do you fancy opening up an illegal cigarette smoking den?

A place where like minded adults could meet up and indulge in their vice with others.:D

garinda

27-04-2008 22:05

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568522)

The shops were owned and he left due to the semi-retirement of my uncle and grandad (since now they only work market days as opposed to 6 days a week).

Thanks for answering.

Though I presume the overheads are a hell of a lot smaller for a market stall, rather than a rented double fronted shop in the town centre.;)

katex

27-04-2008 22:09

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 568526)

Eeew you are naughty .. but I like it... :D
Perhaps we could offer those cocktail cigarettes with flourescent wrappers .. they were cool .... :cool:

andrewb

27-04-2008 22:15

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 568524)

I'm aware it's hard to run a business, in fact the majority of businesses fail in the first year. The 10 grand was at Christmas. I never claimed that it was every day.

andrewb

27-04-2008 22:17

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 568528)

Thanks for answering.

Though I presume the overheads are a hell of a lot smaller for a market stall, rather than a rented double fronted shop in the town centre.;)

And an awful lot less can be done from a market stall like deliveries, funeral orders, weddings etc, which as you can appreciate are worth a considerable income. I'm 100% sure the overheads are less, but the retail space and everything else that contributes means you take in less money. But anyway, I assure you it was because they were semi-retiring. :D

andrewb

27-04-2008 22:19

Re: mr britcliffe

Ugh, in addition (in regards to the 25k rent) I don't think anyones come up with the alternative figures of cost breakdown to show that 25k is a lot for rent. So neither argument is any more correct. :p

katex

27-04-2008 22:35

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568539)

Well, no Cyfr .. need an independent trader to do that for us. With high street national stores, 'tis viewed globally, not just the ones that are making profit (as per the post offices) so cannot compare really.

You are doing a good job questioning these issues, so take heart and consolation in your inquisitive mind. Note my first quote at the bottom of my profile .. that is what you are up against. :(

andrewb

27-04-2008 22:40

Re: mr britcliffe

Thank-you katex :)

I believe low tax is good, and that's what promotes and encourages business. I am just questioning the claim as I myself don't know the full figures. If it turns out that 25 grand is high, then I'll happily admit I was wrong in my original glance of the issue. :D

Royboy39

27-04-2008 22:47

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 568548)

You are doing a good job questioning these issues, so take heart and consolation in your inquisitive mind. Note my first quote at the bottom of my profile .. that is what you are up against. :(

Quote at the bottom of your profile:
I came..I saw ..I conquered..but I am still living in Ossy.
Give the lad some sound advise...Please

katex

27-04-2008 23:11

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 568556)

Quote at the bottom of your profile:
I came..I saw ..I conquered..but I am still living in Ossy.
Give the lad some sound advise...Please

Ok ..'Just in terms of the allocation of time resource, religion is not very efficient. There's a lot more I could be doing with my Sunday morning' .. Bill Gates.

'I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. Hunter S. Thompson.

'I've stopped drinking, but only when I am asleep' .. George Best

'Before you talk a load of poo ... make sure you have double texture poo paper to wipe it off yer lips' (nicely scented of course .. green friendly and recycled) .. katex.

Can't think of owt else ... :(

BERNADETTE

27-04-2008 23:52

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568539)

None of us have the figures but it doesn't take much to work out that these bussiness are not making ago of it. If they were they would hardly be closing down. I think the retail parks have a lot to answer for.

MikeSz

27-04-2008 23:52

Re: mr britcliffe

Sorry to detract from the political arguments (it always amazes me how people roll their eyes when you say you like politics, but this thread is on page 9 so go figure....) Though I saw an opportunity for a quotes page, the following link is my favourite Good Quotations by Famous people
There are some good ones in there

Someone made a good point earlier, and I think irrespective of which party you want to belong to, its important. At the end of the day, politics is about compromise. That was the first line in the first textbook I picked up on politics. It continued "Politics exists because we disagree, but it only works if we compromise" I say that because their are a lot of teeth shown in times of local elections, I like to engage in politics - though I will never get personal about it (not that anyone has on here though I have seen it at local elections, details of which are going to remain my secret). And in 100 years whose going to care...:cool:

andrewb

28-04-2008 00:00

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 568594)

The question is:

Is that because of 'high' rents or is that because of something else such as the retail parks, demographic, or is it both.

Royboy39

28-04-2008 00:04

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 568571)

I'm Glad........What a load of crap

BERNADETTE

28-04-2008 00:05

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 568603)

The question is:

Is that because of 'high' rents or is that because of something else such as the retail parks, demographic, or is it both.

I don't know the answer to that one, if I was to hazard a guess I would say it will be a mixture of the two facts.

katex

28-04-2008 00:14

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 568604)

I'm Glad........What a load of crap

I know .. :D

Neil	28-04-2008 08:28

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 568492)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 568483)

The only 'shop' in Accrington that might possibly achieve that figure is the knockin' shop, near to Greg Pope's office.

.. always plenty of repeat customers in this game.

I did not know you were in that game Kate

lindsay ormerod

28-04-2008 20:21

Re: mr britcliffe

Music Zone did make a profit in Accy, the unit's rent on Broadway was somewhere in the region of £60k, the Our Price rent in Arndale was £45k and that is going back 5 years.

garinda

29-04-2008 00:00

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod (Post 568875)

Music Zone did make a profit in Accy, the unit's rent on Broadway was somewhere in the region of £60k, the Our Price rent in Arndale was £45k and that is going back 5 years.

Gosh, so the rents in the town centre are quite a bit more than Cyfr thought.

Still, he also thought taking ten grand a day in Accrington was feasible, so those rents could easily be paid out of the annual turnover of three million six hundred and fifty thousand pounds...according to his calculations, and we know he's a whizz with figures.:D

cashman

29-04-2008 07:41

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 567772)

Lets take the arndale example: £25,440 for the year.

Retailers, even in Accrington, have had turnover more than £10,000 in a day. Is the rent really that expensive when you look at it like that?

as people are well aware that the £25k was the rent for probably the "smallest" retail shop in the Arndale, @ Cryers Certainly Never took anything in that region - That i now know to be fact, n your inferance was that retailers can take £10k a day you have managed to acheive,what its taken polititions many years to do, n that is= i shall ignore you in future.:rolleyes:

andrewb

29-04-2008 08:48

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 568996)

If you choose to read into what I wrote and ignore me, then that is your choice. I have stated over and over that I was referring to one day and that I wasn't basing this as any kind of substantive evidence, simply playing devils advocate. I wasn't trying to have some political argument over rent.

I am aware I could have been more clear when I said 'in a day', but I certainly don't have regrets about it. If you wish to ignore me over the clarity of my English then that is fine. As a final note I never claimed to be referring to cryers. I do feel you've just jumped on an issue to ignore me on, as it doesn't seem very rational when you read my clear climbdown since that post.

andrewb

29-04-2008 08:51

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 568966)

Now now mr ;)

As it were I didn't know the retail location was cryers. Therefore you can see my mistake in size.

I am completely wrong with the £10,000 figure in reference here. I can quite understand that somewhere like cryers is not taking in £10,000 in a day at Christmas time.

My apologises.

garinda

29-04-2008 10:10

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 569006)

Appolgy accepted.:D

I hope you now see that it doesn't make economic sense for the council to build even more shops in the town, when we have so many empty ones already.

garinda

29-04-2008 18:26

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 567659)

I've got my hands on an Observer and just read the columns. I have no idea how Graham Jones has the nerve to say some of those things!

"How did council tax rise by 45% and nobody did anything"

Well firstly it's nice to see he used the correct figure. However how is this a bad thing? Have you looked at how much council tax rises have been on average throughout the rest of the country? Over 100%! We have a 45% rise, how is this BAD?

Every year except the last one or two the Labour group on council have proposed HIGHER council tax increases than the Conservatives! Complete hypocrisy! I suspect the only reason they've done it differently this year is for short term political gain.

"The Daily Telegraph put Hyndburn Borough Council as the most expensive council in Britain yet local Conservatives are sure they will retain power easily."

I have explained this over and over in several threads here, he has clearly failed to take any notice, and using the fact that people will take the figure at face value to gain politically. When you actually look at how the Telegraph got to that figure it nowhere near represents Hyndburn. If you're reading this Graham I'm happy to meet up with you and discuss it.

"..we still have a poor performing, high Council Tax council."

As I've said before our council tax is much less than a lot of other people are paying. The Labour national government have put HUGE pressures on local councils by delegating more responsibility without fully funding it. Council tax has to go up to deal with these things, but it appears that our council has done well to keep the increases relatively small.

"more dictatorship, or a change of direction, free speech and democracy"

Does he seriously realise what he's writing? I have no quarrel with what he's saying about increasing democracy. I think its a good thing he wants greater democracy with more people contributing, but how can anyone suggest that a Conservative council is currently a dictatorship, that we don't have free speech? Those words are reserved for North Korea not Accrington.

Then finally he gos on to talk about how Blackburn Council have introduced free sports, yet makes the comparison between Blackburn and Hyndburn. How can you make this comparison? Blackburn with Darwen is a unitary authority, they get ALL the money in council tax. Our local council get around 20% with around 80% going to Lancashire County Council!

Now I don't want you to have a funny turn, but...

I've just had another leaflet posted through my door re: Thursday's elections.

In big bold letters it announces 'the most expensive council in Britain'. Informing us that the Daily Telegraph has put Hyndburn at No. 1 spot as being the most expensive concil in Britain, and gives the source in brackets being from March 2008/8.1% income.:D

Gayle

29-04-2008 19:44

Re: mr britcliffe

Yes finally I got a leaflet from the Labour group - I was beginning to feel left out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

"more dictatorship, or a change of direction, free speech and democracy"
Does he seriously realise what he's writing? I have no quarrel with what he's saying about increasing democracy. I think its a good thing he wants greater democracy with more people contributing, but how can anyone suggest that a Conservative council is currently a dictatorship, that we don't have free speech? Those words are reserved for North Korea not Accrington.
Then finally he gos on to talk about how Blackburn Council have introduced free sports, yet makes the comparison between Blackburn and Hyndburn. How can you make this comparison? Blackburn with Darwen is a unitary authority, they get ALL the money in council tax. Our local council get around 20% with around 80% going to Lancashire County Council!

Of course WE have free speech but I think Graham is refering to the way that Councillors are restricted from speaking publicly about some issues.

Also, the point that Graham is making with BwD is not a comparison but the fact that it was a Hyndburn Labour group idea that BwD have decided to implement.

andrewb

29-04-2008 20:02

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 569237)

Well if Labour want to deceive people then that just shows how low they're having to go to get votes in this election doesn't it!

I do hope they get a punishing at the polls for it. Shouldn't be treating people like idiots!

Gayle

29-04-2008 20:45

Re: mr britcliffe

Isn't the Daily Telegraph one of the most 'Tory' newspapers in the country?

So why are Labour deceiving people if they're repeating something that Tories have said?

Just wondering?

Lilly

29-04-2008 21:12

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 569338)

Isn't the Daily Telegraph one of the most 'Tory' newspapers in the country?

So why are Labour deceiving people if they're repeating something that Tories have said?

Just wondering?

Is it this that we are talking about?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/...northwestC.xml

It looks quite deceiving to me because on the one hand it has been said that we have the most expensive council tax in Britain. This sounds quite shocking.

However, when I read the link, it shows the council tax as a percentage of wages in Hyndburn and compares the two.

Would this not make the council tax look high because wages in this area are low? :confused:

If you look at the figures we have one of the lowest wages.

andrewb

29-04-2008 21:31

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 569338)

Isn't the Daily Telegraph one of the most 'Tory' newspapers in the country?

So why are Labour deceiving people if they're repeating something that Tories have said?

Just wondering?

When you actually look at where the figures are from you realise exactly why Hyndburn looks high and why the figures are not an accurate reflection. This has been explained to the Labour group leader on this very website. Even if you were to believe the figures were accurate, the newest article (ie not the old one the Labour leaflet is sourcing) has a list of top 10 most expensive councils which doesn't mention Hyndburn once.

cashman

29-04-2008 21:41

Re: mr britcliffe

well its the kettle calling the pan here i reckon cyfr.:rolleyes:

andrewb

29-04-2008 21:53

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 569396)

well its the kettle calling the pan here i reckon cyfr.:rolleyes:

I am happy you're not trying to defend Labours deceptiveness. Good on you.

cashman

29-04-2008 22:07

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 569406)

I am happy you're not trying to defend Labours deceptiveness. Good on you.

hey mate when its crap to me,i say so whomever it happens to be.;)

andrewb

29-04-2008 22:08

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 569411)

hey mate when its crap to me,i say so whomever it happens to be.;)

As do I. I'm glad we've cleared this up! If only you could be a bit more vocal about Labour treating the voters like idiots with this latest rubbish about council tax!

Royboy39

29-04-2008 22:27

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 569413)

As do I. I'm glad we've cleared this up! If only you could be a bit more vocal about Labour treating the voters like idiots with this latest rubbish about council tax!

OK 60% duty on fuel plus vat on total......where has all the money gone?
Means testing on pensions............where has all the money gone?
Stupid fines on utilities.........where has all the money gone?
Overseas Aid......where has all the money gone?
100% hike on basic rate of tax......where has all the money gone?
MP expenses......where has all the money gone?
Banks bailed out....this would not happen to other industries....we know where the money has gone and when do we get it back?
Bull****...Bull**** and even more.

garinda

30-04-2008 00:01

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 569406)

I am happy you're not trying to defend Labours deceptiveness. Good on you.

I think it's just that Labour have been a bit more successful at putting the spin on the information than you have.;)

andrewb

30-04-2008 07:54

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 569443)

I think it's just that Labour have been a bit more successful at putting the spin on the information than you have.;)

Indeed it appears its one thing they're very good at!

jaysay

30-04-2008 09:15

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 569471)

Indeed it appears its one thing they're very good at!

I think you've got that one wrong Cyfr, it the only thing they are good at:D

andrewb

30-04-2008 17:23

Re: mr britcliffe

In fact the figures they source are from before January 2007 not March 2008. A complete misrepresentation. Complete lies. It's a disgrace.

garinda

30-04-2008 23:51

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 569614)

In fact the figures they source are from before January 2007 not March 2008. A complete misrepresentation. Complete lies. It's a disgrace.

Perhaps this interesting fact was also reprinted in the Daily Telegraph in March.

Whatever, my old boss reads the Telegraph, and I'm expecting a food hamper from Fortnum and Mason any day now.:D

andrewb

01-05-2008 00:17

Re: mr britcliffe

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 569781)

Perhaps this interesting fact was also reprinted in the Daily Telegraph in March.

Whatever, my old boss reads the Telegraph, and I'm expecting a food hamper from Fortnum and Mason any day now.:D

Doubt it! They had an article in april 2008 about top 10 most expensive councils and Hyndburn wasn't there at all, surprisingly enough! Strong manipulation of the public going on here. Very unhappy bunny sat here!

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