|
mr britcliffe
mr britcliffe has a quote in the observer, conservatives have turned the council around in the past five years, he must be kidding.
he brags about the over 60s enjoying a free trip to the sea side, and we all know this is only for a month . |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
they might have cleard the £ .8 mill but look atb the state of the town, we have nothing.
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
What do you mean when you say we have nothing? :confused: |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Hurrah for Hyndburn! Unfotunately it's the league table of poorest boroughs in the country, now putting us on a par with Tower Hamlets in London. It's also noted that no less an august journal as the Daily Telegraph, politically Tory to it's core, names Hyndburn as the most expensive council in Britain. I muist point out that all though this was on the same page as Britcliffe's tale, these facts come courtesy of Cllr. Jones. By the way, I don't know where Britcliffe does his shopping, but it sure as hell ain't in Oswaldtwistle. He says in his plea for votes that minced beef has gone up 64% last year, and bread has gone up 20%. Maybe it has in Harrod's Food Hall sunshine, but I can supply the names of both a local butchers and a bakers in Oswaldtwistle where there haven't been those increases, and if he actually shopped in locally he'd know that. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Perhaps employing more refuse collectors rather than someone to search through ordinary folks waste, just to make sure they are recycling properly? Using a carrot for the donkey, i.e. "excuse me Sir, but this is our town please don't throw you fag end in the street", instead of people hiding and photographing offenders just to make an extra few pounds. I quite like our gentlemen that go around with their brush and shovel attempting to keep the streets clean, give them a bit of limelight, show people what a worthwhile job they are doing rather than paying over the odds for sneak Police. Educate the masses before you punish them! I know it's an offence to litter, but I'm sure that people would co-operate more to gentle persuasion than something like a £70 fine, the first time I'm caught for making a mistake, (I always try to remember to use a bin), will be the time I stop searching for a bin and just watch out for the camera! :) |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
I'm just the messenger, any complaints about inaccuracies should be addressed to the legal department at the Daily Telegraph, 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1.:) |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Even in my relatively short life time, it's so much worse than ten, twenty, thirty years ago. So many well loved business gone for ever, to be replaced by pound shops, empty shops, and always a sign that an area is on a steep decline, pawn brokers shops. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
I'm not arguing against you (unless you've looked up how they got the figure and happen to still think its accurate), I know you're just quoting it. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
:rolleyes: |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Bit it's not the Sunday Sport, the Mirror, or even the Guardian. It comes from that bastion of right-wing politics, the Daily Telegraph no less. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
:o |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
I think that Monday's setter must have a similar brain to mine...unhinged.:D |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
:D Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
If theyve used band D across all the councils well then its fair. If they used band A from hyndburn, band c from rossendale, band b from blackburn - thats not fair is it. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
I'm not painting everything as rosy, but I am saying that we are not the most expensive council. It matters a great deal which band they surveyed. If you calculate it using what's actually happening in reality, you'll see that a MUCH lower percentage of income goes to council tax than it states. The figure is worked out from average salary and then what percentage of income goes to council tax if you're in BAND D. Considering most people living in band D properties have an income of more than £17,000 it's not at all accurate. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
You asked a question, you got an answer, now please tell me what is right or what is wrong, what is too simplistic or what is too complex about my answer or even how irrelivant it is, but at least have the courtesy to answer! Don't just ignore it because it wasn't part of today's course lecture. :( |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Don't try and paint me as stupid because I'm a student. I haven't learnt about this from any lecture, I did the research in my own time. Trying to belittle somebody because of their age really doesn't wash. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Well considering they take £1200 a year from me and my fiance in council tax i would say they are expensive.
Between us we only earn around £15,000 it is a sizeable chunk of our income. What the hell do you get for this money anyway? It's a joke in my opinion,how do they justify it? |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
You would rather cry about me teasing you for being a student rather than reply to something, about which after all, you, asked the question:- Quote:
Now can I ask you to come out from behind your smoke screen, stop pretending I've upset the inner student and reply to what I posted in reply to you? :confused: |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Do you think some people don't know it is wrong to drop litter? I think everyone knows it is wrong and they do it anyway. I don't want my tax money being spent telling people it is wrong to litter. I want them fining for doing it and the fine money used to clear up the mess. Better still the people who litter should be forced to do the cleaning up. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Food for thought when considering council tax :
"About how Council Tax is spent In the tax year 2007/2008, 72.7% of the Council Tax bill is collected on behalf of Lancashire County Council, Hyndburn Borough Council receives 14.5%, 8.8% goes to Lancashire Police Authority and 4% goes to Lancashire Fire Authority. So for a band D property paying £1438.88 Council Tax;
(taken from HBC website) Many people forget that unlike Blackburn with Darwen, which is unitary, HBC falls under Lancashire County Council - which takes the vast majority of your council tax. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
And here's another important point that is often overlooked - from what I understand, HBC had a debt of about £42m 8 years ago. As far as I know, that debt has now been reduced to about £14 million since. To put that in context, try embarking on a a massive saving mission, whilst still ensuring you're paying for everything that you need, whilst ensuring that additional money gets invested, whilst having someone else above you largely controlling your purse strings. No easy feat. Its very easy to criticise so try thinking how that would equate into your own income and spending patterns before dismissing the Council.
For a region like Hyndburn, good, sensible, cost effective local government is surely all you need and I think that is exactly what is being delivered. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Admittedly I didn't live in Hyndburn the last time we had a Labour controlled council, though I did used to visit every month or so.
What is apparent to anyone with half a brain cell is that the area is now more run down than ten years ago. Under a Tory run council we have seen the death of the outside market, once one of the busiest in the northwest. At a cost of many millions of pounds the bus station was moved to accommodate the new market, and suprise suprise the council are planning on relocating it again, again at more cost. We've seen the Conservative run council allow more new retail premises to be built in the area, many of them now stood empty, while long established businesses have gone to the wall, or relocated elsewhere. The economic retail boom that the country has experienced, certainly never made it to Hyndburn. We may have pretty floral towers, but Accrington as a town is dieing on it's backside because of the woeful inability of the council to govern for the good of the people and the area. |
Re: mr britcliffe
I think an area being 'run down' (and even the definition of 'run down' could be extended to include pretty much anything) is down to a number of factors and its a bit simplistic to try and blame the council. It depends on what you're talking about - if its a building who owns it, why its 'run down' in the first place and what it would take to fix it or deal with it if it cant be fixed. Of course things can always be done better, and that’s why debates are important rather than simply apportioning blame.
I think some important steps have been taken – parking is still free in Hyndburn, and that’s something that local businesses have made clear they want. Unfortunately however, you cant force people to shop at a market – I travel the country quite a lot and regrettably lots of markets, some traditionally large ones are now struggling. I know Wolverhampton’s, despite having a large open market square, and being a statute defined market town, now only has about 1/5th of its market. Economic and commercial forces are large, complex and intertwined and are changing the way we shop. We also have changing work/life patterns which effect when and where people shop. I accept you may not like HBC and I’m not asking you to change you’re mind, just realise that you cant really blame HBC for people not shopping at the market anymore. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Personally I'd be afraid to let the present shower organise a jumble sale, nevermind be in charge of a multi-million pound budget, and town planning. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Why are people blaming the Tories for pound shops?
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Empty shops that because of high council tax rates are now only attractive to charity, and cut price shops. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
no i don't think yer understanding it correctly. nor do i think ya want too.:rolleyes:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Please can you explain it to me? |
Re: mr britcliffe
I also think that you have to go back to the days of George Slynn to see when the rot set in when they were selling anything they could get their hands on, the buses, Arndale centre, the bus depot, the land on Eastgate, and other asset all ploughed into the Globe Centre. It was also in that period that the marked started to go kaput, I once remember writting to the Obs stating that the market had become like a derelict wild west town, the only thing missing were the tumble weeds blowing about and that was in the mid nineties
|
Re: mr britcliffe
I thought the charity shops got cheaper leases?
It certainly used to work that way, and the pound shops are the only ones making money ! |
Re: mr britcliffe
I've got my hands on an Observer and just read the columns. I have no idea how Graham Jones has the nerve to say some of those things!
"How did council tax rise by 45% and nobody did anything" Well firstly it's nice to see he used the correct figure. However how is this a bad thing? Have you looked at how much council tax rises have been on average throughout the rest of the country? Over 100%! We have a 45% rise, how is this BAD? Every year except the last one or two the Labour group on council have proposed HIGHER council tax increases than the Conservatives! Complete hypocrisy! I suspect the only reason they've done it differently this year is for short term political gain. "The Daily Telegraph put Hyndburn Borough Council as the most expensive council in Britain yet local Conservatives are sure they will retain power easily." I have explained this over and over in several threads here, he has clearly failed to take any notice, and using the fact that people will take the figure at face value to gain politically. When you actually look at how the Telegraph got to that figure it nowhere near represents Hyndburn. If you're reading this Graham I'm happy to meet up with you and discuss it. "..we still have a poor performing, high Council Tax council." As I've said before our council tax is much less than a lot of other people are paying. The Labour national government have put HUGE pressures on local councils by delegating more responsibility without fully funding it. Council tax has to go up to deal with these things, but it appears that our council has done well to keep the increases relatively small. "more dictatorship, or a change of direction, free speech and democracy" Does he seriously realise what he's writing? I have no quarrel with what he's saying about increasing democracy. I think its a good thing he wants greater democracy with more people contributing, but how can anyone suggest that a Conservative council is currently a dictatorship, that we don't have free speech? Those words are reserved for North Korea not Accrington. Then finally he gos on to talk about how Blackburn Council have introduced free sports, yet makes the comparison between Blackburn and Hyndburn. How can you make this comparison? Blackburn with Darwen is a unitary authority, they get ALL the money in council tax. Our local council get around 20% with around 80% going to Lancashire County Council! |
Re: mr britcliffe
Cyfr, mate its a bit like the Global Warming / ID Card etc scheme.
"My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts!", comes to mind:hidewall: |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
If you already have a plentiful stock of empty retail premises, as a council it isn't really wise to build a whole lot more, which this council has, with plans for even more behind Scaitcliffe House. They are also responsible for setting the business rates tax. It doesn't take the greatest economic brain in the land to work out that the council would get more income from occupied rather than empty shops, something we now have a plethora of. It was only last year Britcliffe was boasting in the press of new businesses that had opened in the area. Well I can name three on his list that have since closed. I remember you posted that you were also opposed to the council giving planning permission to open a town centre Tesco, partly I presume because you know what effect it would have on existing town centre traders, your father included. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
I don't think the council can take all the blame for the rubbish selection of shops we have.
There may be some of us who would spend our money in an Accrington branch of Next or River Island but it seems we are in the minority. Store chains do their research and check out the buying habits of the population before setting up in a town. Sadly, they will be able to see that they wouldn't last long in Accrington because so many people want the dirt cheap stuff. :( |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Charity shops benefit from exemption from corporation tax on profits, 80% mandatory rate relief and a zero V.A.T. rating on the sale of donated goods. A further 20% rate relief is available at the discretion of local authorities. Mass volume sales stores, aka pound shops, have a relatively high turnover, and that results in them being one of only a few type of businesses that can afford the expensive rent and rates that the owners of the retail spaces charge, the owners our council gave planning permission to. Fairly straight forward really.;) |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
And I dont think its because of local government that we have a shoddy selection of retail shops. Lets face it, Accrington used to be a busy town with its own industry and business. As the global marketplace has opened up, manufacturing is cheaper to do abroad, and the money has leaked out of the area. How many people remember the closure of Rist wires when that was relocated? Approx 600 people out of work, in a town without the jobs that they can fall into. I think the current government has more fault than local for the problems in the area. If there werent so much of a North/South divide, the local area would improve no end. Also, going back to the initial posts, I think the fact that the new health centre on Blackburn Road was open for less than a week before the windows were smashed in shows that gentle persuasion, or even a pride in the area is not happenning |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Can you please let me have the figures for the expensive rent/rates you talk of? |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Thirty five years ago the majority of people in Hyndburn didn't own a car. Now we have two car households, and many people, even those on benefits, have homes filled with the latest flat screened televisions, and all manor of electrical equipment. Sadly much of this income is being spent in Hyndburn. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Do it yourself. A quick search on any local commercial estate agent's site will prove my point. Lancsdave posted the other week of the extortionate rent wanted for one empty retail unit in the Arndale, if you care to search through his posts. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
I am no huge political fan or take great interest in facts and figures, but would be interesting to know the %age difference between unemployed 10 years ago compared to now |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Retailers, even in Accrington, have had turnover more than £10,000 in a day. Is the rent really that expensive when you look at it like that? |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Don't think us Next/River Island/Oasis/Warehouse/Jane Norman buyers are in the minority at all. Now acquiring a large immigrant population, and they love these high street stores. Once they are there .. people will buy. Unfortunately, the Council members are not sales people, and do not know how to put forward a decent proposal. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
We give massive budgets to people with no proven record in the commercial world, when really a lot of them would struggle to use an Etch A Sketch, never mind plan a long term retail stategy for the area. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
I will tell you a story when I see you next about a Councillor - remind me |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
It's not like you to spill the political beans...well not many.:D |
Re: mr britcliffe
Me too Rindi, remind me :p
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Rindy for council ????? |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Besides, he doesnt waffle which i feel is a real pre-requisite for my all important vote lol |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
You seem to follow the principle of 'why use 10 words when 1 will do'. That'll do for me.
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
I love Cameron's new brand of caring, sharing Conservatism, or Tory-Lite as the new brand is apparently called.:D |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
You're like Ena, Martha and Minnie. :hehetable |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
It has not increased because Gordon Brown has for 3 years financed the Council's Capital Programme. We normally borrow £2m each year but he has given us £2.5m per year. £7.5m. So we don't have to borrow. An important question is where are all the interest savings on the £10m debt write off being spent? The savings figure is around £900,000 per annum by the way. Also to consider that Council House sales receipts have risen sharply with house prices. This all comes to the Council so where has this money gone too. And we spent 450k on Concessionary Fares prior to any national scheme. Now we have the Government scheme, the Council's scheme has been scraped. So where's that 450K a year gone? |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Only two leaders have contributed anything significant to this Borough in the last 20 years. George did the Globe Centre bringing 100's of jobs to the Borough. Ian Ormerod on a lesser scale sacked the senior management at the Council leading to a mini revival. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Sorry about all the questions but I can't understand how that could happen. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Your referring to the HRA account (like a current account as opposed to the loans account). That has a surplus on close of around £450k. That has now gone into the Council's coffer's this year and a reason for the healthy accounts though it was tenants money. Part of the transfer agreement. |
Re: mr britcliffe
I do hope you've missed by post on page 4 and are not just avoiding it for electoral purposes.
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
And guess the rebel at the time was! So we're on the same side and I can count on your support then! The second bit is rubbish. The accounts according to De Loitte Touche were a mess. Paper profits were being recorded between an antiquated broken down green screen computer system and for the 20 weeks (intermittant) it had been down, an old ledger book. All the payments were historical and not relevant to what was happening as they were internal contracts from the old Tory loony days of CCT (Compulsory Competitive Tendering). £700,000, it might as well have been 700,000 washers, it was paper money, not Tax Payers money. It still happens now. There is a payment from the Market Hall for Central Services for £175,000 which no-one can work out what it is for. It makes the Market Hall appear to be just keeping it's head above water and why we have higher than necessary rent increases and why byzantine accounts frightened off the private sector. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
That's a £3m deficit on current spending. I say that as a reminder of the Tory years in Government and the circumstances in which Labour Councillors had to run the Council. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
Are you living in dream land? I have worked in 3 different successful stores in the town and have only taken that kind on money on Christmas Eve ! An average day at Our Price or Music Zone was £1800-£2000. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
I have been looking at some properties this week, and in my opinion, the rent on council owned property is far higher than a lot of the private sector, and some of it seems extortionate. My brother worked for a popular sports shop in bury precinct, and according to him, a good saturday (not christmas or anything special) would generate around 7 thousand, but that would only just cover the rent, since that time, out of town outlets have taken thier toll and the shop had to close, if a business cant survive with 7 grand turnover in one day, something is sadly wrong.
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
The only 'shop' in Accrington that might possibly achieve that figure is the knockin' shop, near to Greg Pope's office. |
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
Re: mr britcliffe
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 07:06. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 2003-2013 AccringtonWeb.com