MMR Jab
 

Its been reported this morning that parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated with the MMR jab will loose their child benefit and their children could be excluded from attending school. This again sounds like another attack on the poorest in society, as people who are relatively well of will not be botherd about child benefit wereas those from poorer families will be badly effected, another nonsense idea from a nonsense Government:mad:

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Surely its better to have the jab though....:confused: At least when our kids were little ,we diddent think twice about it,,,

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because of the big hoo haw about autism some parents are opting out of the jab.. this means diseases that had practiacally died out are now coming back.. some children cant have the jab due to illnesses and allergies, this means that these children are put at risk because of parents that are choosing not to give their child the jab because they think it will give them autism.....

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This sounds like an excellent idea to me.
Refusing to have your child vaccinated with the MMR jab is pure idiocy.

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I'm not disagreeing with the jab part shakermaker, its the way its being put forward, if you are a family living on say £15,000 a year you will have to have your kids vaccinated even if you have reservations about its safety, yet a couple living on £100,000 a year won't give a monkeys, so its a discrimination against the poores in society thats all I'm saying. I think the MMR jab is a great idea, but there are people from all walks of life who have resevations, yet this will only effect the poor

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The serious consequences put forward for refusing to have your child vaccinated move to show that there is no reason to have reservations about MMR. Hopefully it will dispel the urban myths of MMR's link to autism.

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when Reece was due to have his jab as a baby i didnt think twice about it, back then there wasnt all this comotion about autism, it hasnt been actually proved that it is linked to autism, its just speculation, they seem to change their minds about what babies can and cant do a lot nowadays, on the news the other day they where on about baby bottles doing harm to the child, another thing that wasnt mentioned when Reece was a kid, do we reallly need to wrap them up in cotton wool all their lives????

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On what grounds do you base that on?

A few years ago I had a copy of a report sent to GP's about the MMR jab. It was quite worrying reading.

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That is because in those days people trusted the Government and had sheep mentality when it came to these sort of things.

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Be interesting to see what happens when a couple are forced to do this and the child, god forbid, turns out autistic, will it be down to the government to prove no link, or the parents to prove there is a link, either way, the poor will suffer again, unless proof of a link is given, then the parents are paid hundreds of thousands, and the claim floodgate opens, they will soon drop this stupid idea then.

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Refusing to give a child a vaccination for preventable diseases based on flawed reports, scaremongering and speculation equates to idiocy in my opinion.

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People seem to assume that you have to be a chav to deny a child the right to the MMR jab.
I have said it before in other threads...if the government were so concerned about protecting children, then they would make the single jabs freely available for those parents who have concerns....that they don't suggests to me that perhaps there is a 'money' thing going on between the producers of the vaccine and the government...and that has to be a worry.

Isn't this a kind of health fascism....do this for your children or else?
And if we go down this slippery slope, how long will it be before some other hammer is wielded by government to get their own way.
What happened to the parents right to a reasoned choice?
If I were a parent of a young baby, and there was the remotest chance that a vaccination would cause a lifelong disability, then I would not take that risk...whatever the government said.

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dont agree with that shaker, whilst i'm in favour of the MMR jab,to stop peoples benifit, who refuse fer good reason is idiocy in my book, what else ya gonna do? stop jehovas witnesses benifit cos they don't believe in blood transfusions? i don't agree wi them either,but its their belief.:rolleyes:

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Measles can lead to brain swelling and even death.

Mumps can cause pancreatitis, lead to miscarriage and, very rarely, also inflammation of the central nervous system eg meningitis, encephalitis, or myelitis.

If a preganant woman is around rubella her baby maybe born blind.

blindness is a life long disability that can be cause by children not having the mmr, if everyone had the mmr then the diseases would die out.

Autism is not life threatening.. measles, mumps and rubella can be...
it is very possible that my son has aspergers,(just waiting to see the paediatrician, we have been waiting since september!) which is an autistic spectrum disorder. He had the MMR.
given the choice between autism and possible death or brain damage... i would rather he had autism.. at least he is alive

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While Autism is not life threatening, it does affect the quality of life and it is a lifelong disability.......and while the things you quote do exist and are very real I think it is wrong to let parents believe that any of these things are common.
At the end of the day I would prefer that parents make an informed choice.
And if they(the government) really were so concerned about children getting the protection from these childhood ailments then they should make the single jabs available......that they don't, but yet are willing to threaten such big steps against parents who refuse to put their children at risk from autism(as they see it), worries me greatly about their motives.
I am glad that I do not have the responsibility of making a decision over small children of my own.

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then why are we even talking about the autism link, thats not common either?
it just happens that the age that autism sometimes becomes apparent is the same age children have the jab.

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This is the government using a stick instead of a carrot.
Forcing medication on the population is not the way to go, and just stirs animosity.
I totally agree with what Margaret P said and she should know:mosher:

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Autism is commoner now than ever before.....OK so that may be because they are quicker at spotting it now.
I don't have a gripe with folk who want their children to have the MMR vaccine......I just don't think the government should be using tactic like withdrawing benefits or saying that an unvaccinated child will be excluded from school.
I believe the parents are the ones who should be making the decisions about the well being of their child, not the government.

Remember that if this is allowed to happen it may be the smokers and the drinkers who are the next targets for the health fascists.

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Where was this reported Jaysay ? Can't see this ever being enforced.

Not allowing them in school ! Denying child benefit ! .. bit extreme.

Although I do feel is the duty of every parent to immunise their children for the sake of the whole.

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As for your question about the link between the vaccination and autism......that is what most parents fear, although there are other conditions that are also linked the this vaccination(notably bowel disorders).
These fears have not been adequately dealt with, parents have not been reassured.
And who can blame them I wouldn't trust this government with the running of a whelk stall....and they wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit them.

In any case, it matters not one jot as i have no small children to consider....but if I had they would not be getting the MMR vaccine.

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I do get a feeling of deja vu with this thread. I think I have been here before.

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Smokers in particular, but drinkers too are already targets imo, along with motorists, the government have tried pricing these things out of the market, but still persist in making life difficult for them, as usual, the wealthy people dont give a monkeys about the cost, it is the low paid who are more likely to be smokers and drinkers possibly due in part to financial difficulty, and are the ones least able to run a car, a labour government with many tory policies in my opinion, look after the rich and stomp on the poor.

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I can kind of understand not letting them into school because they are putting other children at risk... a strange way of looking at it but its like dog kennels not allowing dogs that havent had their jabs lol

Autism is now accepted as a special need, not too long ago it was blamed on refrigerated mothers that didnt show love to their children.

i agree that the government shouldnt have to do this, but i can see why they are

as i said before... i do have a small child and he has had the vaccine

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Why are they if all the other kids have had the MMR jab?

You can still have the 3 separate jabs if you pay for them and find someone to give them to your child

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well... some children cant have the jab due to illnesses and allergies. plus you have to think about the teachers etc.. if one is pregnant then the baby can be affected by it

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what annoys me is when parents have more than one child and one of the kids have had the jab but they refuse to let the other kid have the jab because of all this scare mongering, thats just hypocritical to me

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In schools, the only children who are going to be affected are the non-vaccinated ones.......so it isn't like there is a huge risk.
It is NOT the correct way to get increased take up of vaccination.
Don't get me wrong......I am not against vaccination per se.....I am just against the combined vaccination. I am sure that if the vaccines were separated there would be a much bigger uptake.
I, and all of my siblings had measles as a child, and while it wasn't the pleasantest experience, none of us suffered any lasting ill effects. I do not recall any of my peers suffering any of the complications of these diseases either.

I think that many of the terrible things like measles encephalitis, etc are exaggerated to scare parents

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A pregnant teacher should not be at risk as she should have had the Rubella vaccination as a child at school.
I know there was a vaccination program when I was at school...many years ago....but I had already had rubella so i didn't get vaccinated.

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'Although the idea was being floated this weekend, it is likely that Downing Street will shy away from it, given the historical controversy over the vaccination programme in Britain.'

Pupils 'must have MMR jab' to start classes | News crumb | EducationGuardian.co.uk

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Is that fair on the child though Margaret, just because their parents decided against it ?

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Thanks Garinda .. Jaysay hopeless sometimes at putting up a link .. :D

Think it will float away into oblivion .. although how lucky are we that we can protect our children in this way. Years ago, lots of children would have died from these diseases. Didn't know there was one for chicken pox now (which you really don't want to get due to possibility of shingles later) and winter vomiting virus ? What's that ?

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the norovirus thats been doing the rounds recently....i think the chicken pox vaccine is only given out in usa atm i know it was when i was studying child health.

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Well, I think the parents would investigate and have their childs best interests at heart.
Parents do decide a lot of things for their children, and do it admirably....I'm not sure that a child would really know that if it succumbed to a childhood illness, it could be construed as the parents fault.
We don't consider it a parents fault if they get any other illness....and it is the parent who has to look after the child when it is not well.
If a child was vaccinated and it then developed autism or bowel problems would the child consider its parents negligent for not investigating thoroughly the risks of vaccination?
You could go around in circles forever and not come to a satisfactory conclusion.
And I swear that this will be my last word on this subject.

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Both my children had the vaccination and the decision for them to have it was mine. I certainly don't think parents who have concerns and don't allow their kids to be vaccinated should be blackmailed in any way. As Margaret says why are they not offered seperate ones???

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some times an informed decision is still not the best one... i made and informed decision and went ahead with the surgery on tylers eye hoping it would make them better and instead it made them worse.... and i blame myself for that because i opted for the surgery.

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No it is doing what you feel is right at the time using your current knowledge to make the decision.

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taken from the bupa website.......

'No country recommends single rather than combined vaccines. There are a number of reasons why the vaccines aren't given separately.

• Children would need three times as many injections (six in total), which is more unpleasant because of the pain from each jab and six episodes of possible side-effects.
• It could mean that fewer children have all the necessary vaccinations, increasing the levels of measles, mumps and rubella in the UK.
• There may be more delay before being completely vaccinated, leaving children at risk of infection from the diseases for longer.
• Single vaccines are not licensed in the UK, and have not passed the UK's safety and effectiveness testing. '

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Yes, of course Margaret .. damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Just that ... you only have to look around old Churchyards (as I did the other week) to see how many children died in the past with these diseases which they don't now due to immunisation, that's all I was trying to say.

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So going from that link these single vaccines are not licensed in the UK, how come you can have them if you pay:confused:

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BBC News | HEALTH | Single vaccine hunt continues

heres some more on this...

and some interesting bits from the report....

It is not available on the NHS anywhere to younger children - it does not have a licence because many doctors believe it does not actually work well enough.

Dr Peter Mansfield, working privately from a practice in Louth, Lincolnshire, was reported to the General Medical Council, which regulates the profession, by a health authority.



Dr David Pugh - offers the jab

It claimed that the GP was acting outside the best interests of his patients by giving the single jab.

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Whilst I don't agree with taking away people's benefits for not agreeing to have their children vaccinated, something does need to be done to show parents what can happen if they don't.
Personally, I would invite them along to my place of work which is a residential home for deafblind adults, we have 5 residents ranging in age from 34 to 54 years old - all of whom have the disabilities they have because their mothers were in contact with or caught rubella whilst they were pregnant. They are all deaf and blind in varying degrees and all have severe learning difficulties, it would open a lot of people's eyes if they could see what Rubella causes - and that is fact not scaremongering.

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Well, exactly Accymad .. this will not happen now (or should not) due to the facility of immunisation !!

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...........as long as all children have them..................

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Exactly Emamum .. tis scandalous not to.

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Thanks Kate I love you too:mad:but you only have to read my location to understand why, although I have been getting some tuition from Less, HE'S A GENT. However, I didn't see it in a paper it was debated on BBC Breakfast yesterday morning, they had a Chap who was the past Chairman of the BMA and a woman from Kidscap on discussing it

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Don't be mad at me Jaysay, was just teasing.. ;)

Just heard a discussion too on the Jeremy Vine show .. both points put forward, and nothing further to add to what we have already discussed on this thread really, except one doctor was running a clinic for parents who requested the single vaccines.

Seems besides France, the U.S. adopt this policy too, and cannot start school without proof of immunisation/vaccination. Appears the 'culprits' are mainly travellers, immigrants with language problems and poorer communities.

A couple of callers to the programme suggested 1) Why don't we send all the non-MMR children to one school and 2) Perhaps the schools should issue figures to all parents to let them know the percentage of children who had not had the jab. Ah, well, food for thought I suppose.

The figures quoted on measles was 77 cases (think about 2 years ago ?) to 900 cases last year ... that is a big increase.

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Both my kids have had all thier jabs, EVERY child should also have it too, as for the child benefit thingy, then that is wrong, like hitting someone in the pocket is going to change their mind :rolleyes:

I just cant understand why any parent wouldnt protect their child from deadly dieseases....total madness!!

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Who said they did not want to protect their children? Most parents against the triple jab want to be able to give their children the old 3 single jabs that most of us had as kids. The scare only came along with the triple jab.

The Governments only reason for having the triple jab is based on cost, not effectiveness.

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I think some parents want their kids to have the single jab instead of the three together panther, I think what actually made thngs worse was the fact that Tony Blair would't say if his youngster had had the MMR jab or not.
Oh by the way saw you on Gladiators on Sky Saturday night panther:D