Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

According to the Observer ex-Mayor Tony Dobson has been criticised for his fund raising whilst in office last year. The person who seems most angry is a fellow Conservative, Cllr. Doug Hayes.

I'm not going to type out the whole story, but the link to the Observer is here.

http://www.accringtonobserver.co.uk/...ity_fund_storm

Personally I really can't see what the problem is.

The method may be unorthodox, but so what?

Money was raised for charity, no one appears to have been conned, and I can't really see why his fellow Tories are rounding on him.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

ive just read that in't tho'obsever too, what does it matter?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I've no idea.:confused:

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I don't suppose the beneficiaries will be complaing about all the extra money that was raised.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Not sure about this; the charities actually made the donation themselves, and then he gave the money back to them with an extra 10 % on top.
Surely he can only really claim to have raised the 10% as the rest was only a "loan " in effect?
Sounds like a con job to me. (no pun intended)

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

They weren't all charities though, some were schools that raised money for him.

It did seem a little odd asking for money from charities. Perhaps that's what all the fuss is about.

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I've read the article but I'm not sure I understand the whole '10% top up' thing.

What was his nominated charity this year? Were all those organisations his nominated charities and where did the 10% come from?

Sorry, don't get it.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I personally don't see what all the fuss is about-even if it because it was other charities that raised the money, if they were bothered they could have said no.
It was all legal, so i don't think theres a problem.

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Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

May be he invested it to raise the extra money.

Got to admit I was surprised when i saw how much he'd raised - only because I know that previous Mayors had raised about £12k.

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Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I have to say I heard about this last week, but not what the context was, as some of you may realise its very rare I'm on here at this time o night, I do need my beauty sleep:D but I've only just returned home, and thought I'd see If anything had been posted on the subect. I'm very disappionted, can't see what all the fuse is about really. I know Tony very well, he is a very successful business man, the only thing I can see is that he and his wife have done the fund raising for the Mayoresses charity in a different way, so what, he did nothin illegal and local cherities and projects benefited, must have been a slow week news wise for the Observer:eek:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

looks like more political skullduggary as dobbo wasnt in the political mainstream and was an and coming councillor and not in the proper cliqe before he became mayor there has been a dirty tricks campaign.remember the banners...im not surprised this has come up .no wonder councillors are becoming independents.but i suppose its making politics interesting in hyndburn might be tempted myself in a few years..:):rolleyes::D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Oh..............Dear. :hidewall:;):D

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Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Only 12k in a whole year, I bet you could raise more than that ;):D

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I cant see the problem, I know worse ways that charities 'earn' thier money, I am aware of 2 very well known charities who, once you donate, sell your details to other charities, that is not very nice, we receive around 5 calls a week from 'charities', ranging from fire, police to raising money for children, the childrens ones are dispicable, they ring telling you 'we contacted you back in November, and you were unable to help at the time, and asked us to ring back in 6 months' then they start thier spiel to try and get a regular donation from you, when you state that you promised no such thing, they hang up, without so much as a thank you, these people probably give virtually nothing to charity, they are run as a business to make money for greedy fat cats expenses.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Tony has done a fantastic job at something which is very difficult to achieve and has simply set out at doing it in a different way. I only know a little about what has happened but this has quite literally been an exerceise in thinking out of the box, there was no nominated charity this year, all the money raised is going to fund local charities in need and this is Tony simply coming up with a new way of raising more money for local causes.

I would add that I have been taking anything coming from the Accrington Observer with a bit of a pinch of salt lately as well!

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

What were his charities this year - does anyone know?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Am I being thick or what?
A charity gives him a donation, he adds 10 percent then gives it back!
Hows that raising money. Looks like hes just giving his own money to the charities.
I dont get it at all, please someone with knowledge explain. The observer doesn't explain at all.
Still smells fishy to me.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I think this is how he worked it
..He gave those charitable institutions an incentive to raise as much as they could for him, on the basis that they would get 10% added on when he gave it back to them.
A way to get other people to do the fundraising for him

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Ahhh. That clears it up :D

I still don’t get it, someone donates say £5000, he returns £5500 to them. Looks like he is giving away funds to me…….Confused :confused:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I think there is an amount per year to be allocated to such charities.
His methods made it look like more than ever before had been given to Mayors fund
I may be wrong ... but its a logical explanation ... yes?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

The logic escapes me completely :confused:

My brain must switch into extra numb mode when I visit this thread :D

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Duh I know its late and I'm tired are we saying that he give the 10% from his own pocket?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I dont know, thats what it reads like but it cant be so.

If I could work it out I'd borrow a few grand from someone, give them 10% back on top and be quids in.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

it has me beat this one, should be explained its as clear as mud. if its all above board explanation stops mud sticking, so where is it?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I wondered if all those organisations were his nominated charities at the end of the year, did the 10% top up that he gave them come out of the £10k that he raised through more conventional methods?

So if that's the case they raised about £80k which they put into his charity fund. He then nominated them as his charities and gave them back the money that they put in plus the 10%. I don't know if that's what happened which is why I'd be interested to know who his nominated charities were this year.

I suppose, at the end of the day, the money will go to charity in one way or the other. So, I guess the only way it's sort of misleading is that he didn't raise the money himself in the traditional way.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Maybe the reporter did not understand it but was told to report on it by the Editor anyway :D

Reading the story it looks like the reporter did not understand it.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I think I get it now.
He raised say 10 to 12 thousand pounds through conventional fundraising as per all previous mayors. No problem there.
He then encouraged other bodies to donate their fundraising into his 'pot' to make his fundraising look more impressive. He then gave them the money back with 10% out of the funds he had raised.
Therefore in reality he only raised 10 - 12 k and gave it to the charities who collaborated in the scheme.
It's an absolutely scandalous way of trying to mislead people!

At the end of the day he did not raise 90k!

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I suppose he will justify what he did by saying that this inspired those charities to raise more so that the 10% would be bigger.

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Myself I can't think why it was front page leader in our local paper, seems like a none story to me

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Perhaps fellow Tory Councillor, Doug Hayes, and his vitriolic quotes made it a front page story.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

See you have added a similar comment on the Observer's web site Jaysay .. wonder if it will get printed next week .. they now do this under 'What's been said on the Web' ... :D

Are we saying that the charities that donated funds to the Mayor's fund and then returned, then became the nominated charities ? Just seen Gayle's assumption too sorry .. just taking a while to sink in.

Think the Observer may just explain it a little better next week .. can live in hope.

Just noticed the Observer running a poll as to whether you approve of the Mayor's unorthodox ways of raising this money.

Yes .. 18%
No ... 82%

Mind you, might be only a few people here, like Jaysay and Cllr. Britcliffe, Mrs Dobson 'Yes'
Cllr Jones, Doug Hayes, Mrs Hayes, new Mayor.

Ok not quite proportional, but sure you understand what I am trying to say.. :)

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

errr no kate, as far as I can see, its just that TD desided to do things different, in fact I spoke to Tony at lenghth yesterday, and he told me that before he embarked on this way of fund raising he checked everything out to make sure he was not bracking any rules, I hope to be seeing Doug Hayes over he weekend and will get his slant on things

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Sorry Jaysay, what are you saying 'errr no' to ?

Not saying he was breaking any rules, we are just trying to understand it all.

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Yes, must stress that I don't understand, I was only trying to make a guess at how things had worked.

Jaysay, do you know Tony's nominated charities this year? Might just clarify things.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Surely you are not suggesting people only vote according to the colour of the rosette whether it's right or wrong. That would never happen in this country :D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Sorry Gayle, just rung him and its just going to answer, but will try to find out

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well dave I have known this to happen on the odd occasion, but its very rare:rolleyes:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Surely, his party members must have known about this throughout his Mayoral year ... as he did checks to see if illegal and would surely consult the Council? However, does read that Graham Jones does appears to have known about this just lately. ... :confused:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

And it would appear from the report that Cllr Britcliffe has only just found out about it too.

I've had a trawl around HBC website to find out who the charity money is going to, you'd think the info would be on there, but can't find anything. Pam's money this year is going to the local branch of Macmillan Nurses - I found that.

Thanks for ringing him Jaysay. I'd have asked him myself but I haven't seen him in the playground all week.

He's definitely not had a good Mayoral year - what with the controversy over the banners when he started, the fiasco with the rolling four sixes and now this - can't see him being selected as the Tory candidate for the next election on the strength of all that.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Perhaps, when you speak to him again, you could try and persuade Cllr. Dobson to come on our site and explain from 'the horses mouth'. After all does get lots of viewings (404 up to now .. ok some repeats probably), but does have quite a wide audience.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I'm not sure he's on the internet kate, as I had to check something out fo him yesterday, but I could be wrong:confused:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Just talked to TD and he's told me that besides those taking part in the fund raising others will benefit, projects like Milnshaw Residents Association, Carers Link, Visually Impaired Support Group, and others. Now doubt the full list will be published in due course, possible in the Citezen and the Tellegraph:rolleyes::)

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Still in a fog Jaysay ?? Where did the money come from if it all went back to the others with interest ? Is he just talking about the money from the Mayor's Ball, boxing tournament ? If the money were invested, must have given quite a large return ? Can see that the promise of 10% would act as a carrot, and would need more than 10% to have some floating ?

Hek, I'm no economic wizard. :confused::confused:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well he did do other fund raising events as well, and I'm like you kate not an economic wizard, so long as I can work out what a round coss in the pub I'm quite happy, thank you:D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well the amount that those organisations donated adds up to £79,880, if he were to repay them plus 10% that would cost £87,868 - as he's saying that he raised £90,000 that leaves £2,132 (more if there were any investments in there) to be divvied up between the additional charities that you've mentioned. Although I have to doubt that there were investments as in January the Mayoral Charity Fund only had £8,000 in it.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

LOL Gayle, just being doing all that adding up meself. Think he will have to explain it all in print eventually .. I mean, we are reasonably intelligent, aren't we ? So, would think other people are going to demand more details.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

See the poll in the Observer has gone to:-

Yes .. 20%
No ... 80%

Another Tory voter then.

How can you vote if you don't know what you voting for exactly.
Should have alternative of 'don't understand a blooming word'

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Blimey, and he wants to stand as our M.P.?

At least Greg Pope comminicates with us by all available technologies.

Perhaps he'll send carrier pigeons from Westminster to Hyndburn, if we're ever daft enough to elect him, and we need a question answered.:rolleyes:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Don't all Councillors have access to the internet at Scaitcliffe House - or why has he got an email address there? Does someone have to print off all his emails and send them round on a bike?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

That's what it looks like to me too Chris, and it's a very misleading picture that he has painted for the public; more turns than a twisty, turny thing !

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well my last word on the issue is, everything was up and above board, nothing was underhand, Charities are the winners, and most off all the Observer has made a pigs ear of the story in the first place. Maybe if the person who did the story had spent a little more time researching the material, the detail woulD probably have been a little clearer than mud, but hey why let the truth get in the way of a front page headline:confused: Pulitsar it ain't

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

But why is fellow Conservative councillor Doug Hayes so upset with the way the money was raised?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Because he has been Mayor twice, and his charity collection is recorded as £15,000 and £18,000, so makes it look like they didn't work as hard. Sorta' jealousy factor I guess.

So could be most of the Observer votes could be ex/future Mayors ! ..:D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I guess there's nothing like party unity, and this is nothing like party unity.:D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

dont matter how much mud they create, come elections the dimwits will elect em again.:rolleyes:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Someone must have opened a can of Tory voters overnight then Kate

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/a...1&d=1212923301

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Oh my goodness Neil !! ... thought you were winding me up then :eek:

I promise I looked at this not more than an hour ago, and it had shifted slightly, but was showing something like:-

Yes .. 21%
No .... 79%

Just in the last hour then !!

Maybe someone has rallied the troups then..

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

The Observer article is clear as mud in an opaque box. :D

As I understand it, a joint venture with the charities and the mayoral fund was established. The idea being that the charity raises money and the mayoral fund would provide them with an additional 10% as an incentive. The 10% raised was from conventional methods.

Doug Hays clearly doesn't agree with the idea. I, however, think it is great and has clearly produced a huge result, whilst remaining completely legal and doing everything within the rules.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Eeew hek, the 'yes's' are going up more .. that you Andrew ?

Well, must be a lot of people out there who understand it .. feeling inadequate :( (or not .. just voting 'cause they support Cllr. Dobson).. your explanation is no different than the Observer.

I will not vote on this until I have the full details of whether that £ 90,000 is a truistic figure, and not embroiled in 'slightly embroidered' spin.

Would love to know if Jaysay has voted 'yes', even though he admits to not understanding it. :D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Yes it's me, I'm avidly running around family homes voting to save face. ;)

£90,000 was raised in total. £10,000 was raised by conventional methods. The other £80,000 was raised by charities, and then given back to them with an additional 10% (from the £10,000 conventional methods).

The 'controversial' part being that the charities have been given an incentive to raise their own money, where as in the past only the conventional method was used, with the money going to a nominated charity.

Is this any clearer? If not which bit is it that I am still covering with mud. :D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I'm no synic kate of course I voted yes, just on the grounds of party unity you understand:rolleyes:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well, good on ya' for admitting it Jaysay .. :p

Andrew: I do understand the incentive, etc., but what puzzles me is would these 'partners' not have raised most of this money in their own right anyway ?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I see what you mean, I suppose we'd have to look at what these charities raised last year for the answer to that.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

wouldn't have expected owt else the guys as sound as pound, even if he is a tory.:D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Thanks cashy your a gent, and congrats for reaching 10,000 post:alright::dancedog::dancedog::dancedog:

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Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

'BY JOVE, THINK I HAVE GOT IT AT LAST!' thanks to everybody's input on here.

Ok, the support he gave his partners plus the 10% bribe (whoops sorry incentive), generated extra income from their last year's figures; we don't know this though do we ? and always difficult to judge how much his presence at their events has produced any extra.

We don't know where the 10% extra was drawn from .. wouldn't be fair to draw from the normal Mayoral events .. would take monies from other charities then, wouldn't it ?

Really only the extra from last year (difficult to tell if they would have raised this anyway) that his partners raised should have been included in the total figure in my way of thinking, and not the extra 10% either if taken from the general fund (well, maybe, was raised and just shuffled about) We do not know if this was paid from his own pocket or not .. but, if it was, would just be considered as a donation so could be included I suppose .. :rolleyes:

Can understand past Mayors and the current Mayor feeling a little miffed by the way the figure has been presented, as not entirely correct, and to rub salt into the wound, he was boasting that he had raised 5 times more than any other Mayor.

Not saying wasn't helpful to the charites that donated either, or illegal, does just appear to be an electioneering tactic to me.

Think I may have confused meself even more.. :confused:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Now you've confused me because that's not what I thought! :D

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well, it was basically Willow ..just that some of his partners raise money anyway.

Suppose the Hyndburn Sea Cadets only raised £15,000 last year; this year they raised £20,000 + 10%, only £5,000 net should be shown, as Cllr Dobson will take credit on this for his support, but can never tell if due to this. He has taken the whole monies raised into his fund.

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Well, the orthodox way of raising funds, like the Mayor's Ball and a boxing tournament, which was £10,000.

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it all smells to me like a BIG LEGITIMATE CON.:rolleyes:

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well, not quite, the £10,000 would have been donated to charities as mentioned by Jaysay in #46.

Now, someone is going to come along and tell me I am talking a load of dog pooh .. possible .. always willing to be corrected..:D

Cashy .. you always have that lovely tactful way of putting things .. LOL.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

ahh but am i wrong? honest answers only please.:D;)

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

On the face of it 'No' .. ;)

Am now going to enjoy some of that sunshine in the park .. need therapy after that.. :D

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Reading the letters in the Observer seems other people are angry about this as well because the only charities to benefit are the ones who could afford to invest in the scheme to begin with.

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It all seems a bit odd this story, stll dont think I grasp the deal :confused:

Will wait and see what the outcome is :)

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What they are saying is that in order to raise funds the Mayor normally works hard, seems this was an easy way to go about it. Plus it isn't a competition to see who can raise the most.

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That's the problem though Bernie, we don't really know how much more the charities contributing raised extra from their previous efforts.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Kate, what was the results of the yes no poll in the Observer, it has changed now to Hynburn Honeys?

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Yes but not all charities could afford the original stake so had no chance of benefitting anyway.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

couldnt give a hoot how he raised the money as long as it was legal

all the people bitching about it in the paper were previous mayors who didnt have the brains to think up what he did

charities got extra money thanx to tony dobsons little brainstorm infact i may contact him about a charity event im trying to organise

a.m.d.f - accy mans diesil fund - a well worthy cause and all donations recieved with thanx

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

This morning was standing at:-

88% Yes to agreeing he was doing a good deed.
12% No he was conning us all.

Still feel just political support on this poll though, nobody still quite sure how it was manipulated.

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Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

That is a good majority for yes then.

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i suppose he could have raised the odd £50 here and there if he went back to dj'ing but instead he dared to raise a hell of a lot more using his brain

utterly disgusting behaviour i bet the charities that benefited are realy upset they got more than £50


was the news paper short on news when this was reported ?

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

He raised about the same as the other mayors and made out it was a hell of a lot more.

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May not be illegal or even immoral but it's certainly devious.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

I would not say devious, more a case of brains not brawn.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Okay,substitute devious for underhand, put another way, I wouldn't buy a used car off him !;)

There is a lot more to this story than is out there. Doug Heyes personalised the issue. Why not just give the charities 10% and not bother with all this money moving from one pot and back to the first pot for no reason. The first donation landed before Xmas and the remainder in the new year. Taking the money so late means there was never an incentive to raise money to be topped up. Giving money to make money is against Charity Commision rules. As is giving money without any paperwork, which all of them have done and which means temporarily they can't have their money back. Unfortunately it has all been done on a nod and wink. There's £104,000 in total to be audited. £11,000 in expenses. One of them is kicking up because they are behind on rent and need it. The College, Mount Carmel, Hollins may not get their 10% as it is forbidden also under Charity rules to give to educational establishments I am led to believe. The mayoral fund is forbidden from giving to non Hyndburn residents so the Bethany Fund won't get 10%. Councils Audit and Investigations have been called in to sort out the mess.

What is clear is that most Charities turned down this arrangement. The ones that didn't all had connections or friendships of one kind or another. Political friends in Sea Cadets, Bethaney. Cllr Britcliffe runs Stray Dogs with Steve Wood. Tony went on the Board at Mount Carmel and not long after they handed over £30,000. Tony sometimes puts himself in some awkward positions!

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

May the outcome be truthful and as this is a local issue, if no fraud or intended fraud is uncovered as being commited or intended then let the matter rest...........i'ts not the end of the world.
The replacement of Wheelie bins is more important to some.

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

Well I thought I'd understood it all, and my initial reaction was this really was a non-story, mixed in with a few sour grapes.

What you've posted as muddied the water.

It's shocking that the charities don't even have the money raised yet, and that one of them is now struggling to pay their rent.:(

Re: Ex-Mayor in charity storm.
 

What I don't get in all this is the need to raise or appear to raise more than any previous or future Mayors. Think we all have charities that we favour it is part of life. Seems to me that in future the nominated charities should be named before the Mayor takes office.