Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Doing some more research into council tax and thought I’d post the results. I compared all band A taxes in the local area:

Ribble Valley: £937.68
Hyndburn: £995.22
Pendle: £1,009.04
Burnley: £1009.10
Rossendale: £1012.96

So what does this show? Well it shows that the authorities with most Band A housing are generally more expensive. This can be attributed to the fact that authorities with lots of high band housing can afford to have cheaper council tax as they have more money to deliver the same services.

So how can we measure how 'efficiently' citizens money is spent in return for services?
Lets take the budget divided by the amount of households to give the average amount per household for services provided.

Ribble Valley: £7,335,467 / 24,367 = £301.04
Rossendale: £11,509,000 / 29,868 = £385.32
Hyndburn: £15,097,845 / 36,194 = £417.14
Pendle: £17,268,000 / 39,097 = £441.67
Burnley: £18,035,652 / 40,292 = £447.62

As you can see Hyndburn is slap bang in the middle in terms of performance, with Burnley and Pendle being the most expensive per household and the Ribble Valley being the best performing.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

It may be slap bang in the middle of your little list, but Hyndburn appears to have a difference of £116.10 from the Ribble Valley figure, yet only a £30.48 difference from Burnley, which you say is the most expensive per household.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Indeed it appears the Ribble Valley is very high performing. I suspect this is probably a reflection of the lack of benefits etc which gives them a lower budget.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Good, so you agree, financially Hyndburn isn't in the middle of your list, and our council tax is relatively high, which isn't much of a suprise to those who are already paying it.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

If Burnley and Pendle are high then yes Hyndburn is quite high. Unfortunately council tax is very high across the country because of all the burdens placed on councils in recent years.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Good, we agree.

Council tax in Hyndburn is relatively high.

Well researched.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

All MP's, including opposition MP's are paid by the tax payer. Simply because they still form the government even though they might not have the overall majority in the House.

However as far as council tax is concerned, the MP's are not paid out of that.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I think it makes sense for us to pay for every parties MP's, unless of course we want nobody with a half decent brain to oppose government and end up with Hitler-like politicians being at the top uncontended.

Bit off topic but it's early and I thought I would add something to the thread since council tax isn't really something I am knowledgeable of :p

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

My wages have gone up 23% (UNITE/AMICUS) in 8 years. My Council Tax has risen 45%. We know the Government has flooded Hyndburn and Hyndburn Council with £millions of extra subsidies and grants so in reality my Council Tax should not have gone up at all and no where near my wage increases, yet it has doubled.

Have I got value for money?

Are these dramatic increases a symptom of a failing Council, or a high Council Tax or both, or just we have lots more extra services we can cheer about that previous Councils chose not to do and not to raise taxes to do?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

You missed the cheapest Band A in the area, Blackburn with Darwen is just £920.07
Considerably cheaper than most of the others

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I wondered why our nearest neighbour, and one with probably the most similar housing stock, wasn't on the little list.

I do hope it wasn't left off on purpose.:rolleyes:

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Quite simple Rindi Blackburn is a unitary authority and don't have LCC as a monkey on its back

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Wasn't it Blackburn where all the council staff were going on strike because of the pay ?. Maybe thats how the money is saved as well ?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I don't think people really care what sort of authority they are in. They are more concerned with how much they have to pay, balanced against the services they get.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Council tax has not doubled. It has gone up by 45% as you say, which is less than half. I don't think its fair to say we have grants therefore council tax shouldn't have gone up. All authorities get grants yet we're seeing much bigger than 45% rises around the country.

You're correct it is. No Garinda of course it is not left off on purpose. As Jaysay says, Blackburn with Darwen is a Unitary Authority which means it controls all of its budget, where as 80% of ours goes to Lancashire County Council. Different kettle of fish. I, however, am an advocate of localised responsibility; it clearly helps Blackburn with Darwen keep their costs down.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Well it does make a difference Rindi, when you think that 82% of the cash raised by the council tax in Hyndburn goes to the LCC, wereas eveything raised in Blackburn is spent in Blackburn means they are in control of their own financial destiny

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I don't think you should disregard BwD just because we are unitarian, in fact that is more reason to include them in any value for money tables, as a comparison.
We must also remember that figures alone will not give a real value in this instance, their are so many variables, as some one said the reevaluation of wages for council employees it a big issue and their are many many more.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Many County Councillors want a unitary. Your Tory Council especially, along with all the other Tory Council's and LCC blocked it.

I want a Unitary authority for many other reasons, though most are tied into efficiency and savings.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

When was this? and under what grounds?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I think that is a weak argument Andrew. A think there is strong evidence to that needs looking at.

The Governments Free Bus Scheme has meant Hyndburn no longer has to pay £450k for it's voluntary one. We now get £2.5m approx HIPS money (3rd year) which means for the first time we are not borrowing that from the bank. We get ELEVATE. We had been fiunding Project Phoenix ourselves since 2000 directly through the rates. Now the Government i funding it. The Council's website has received a massive injection of cash this week. Our Government direct grant has gone up around 60% so that should ease some of the burden as well.

In total we have received an £100m plus in this period to get things moving so the big question still is, where has all the money gone and why has Council Tax risen so sharply?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

2/3 years ago and last year. That is why Cheshire was divided into two this year.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I have just checked on LCC website for increases in median gross weeky earnings since 2000

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/office_...s/hyincome.asp

- the median earnings of all workers have rsien from £275.20 to £374.90 per week from 2000 to 2007 (£99.70 per week = 36.23%). This is broken down into men's earning rising from £309.00 per week to £427.90 (£118.90 per week or 38.48%) and women's earning have risen from £215.90 to £267.80 (£51.90 per week or 24.03%).

As Council Tax has risen by 45% (which is Andrewb's reckoning), it has gone up by 9% more than Median Gross Weekly Pay.

What is very disturbing is that the median gross weekly earnings for woman has actually fallen since 2003 and is only £0.70 per week more than it was in 2002.

The median average hourly rate of pay (excluding overtime) is £10.32 for men (in 1998 it was £8.17) and for women is £6.87 (in 1998 it was £5.87). So in 10 years median hourly pay has only increased by £2.15 for men (26.32%) and for women £1.00 (17.05%)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

To see how Hyndburn compare t the rest of the county for median earnings (in 2007) these are the figures
Local Authority (Source is ONS)
(Colums are as follows - Median weekly earning, median hourly rate, median hours worked- includes overtime- median gross annual pay)

Blackburn with Darwen 354.2 9.37 37.0 18,284
Burnley 308.5 9.15 36.6 17,232
Hyndburn 287.4 7.97 37.0 15,282
Pendle 352.8 9.53 37.5 18,196
Ribble Valley 391.9 9.89 37.5 20,066
Rossendale 289.4 7.99 37.4 16,298
Blackpool 286.7 8.41 37.0 *
Chorley 320.9 9.22 37.0 18,359
Fylde 462.5 12.09 37.0 24,349
Lancaster 356.1 9.76 37.0 20,310
Preston 324.9 9.00 37.0 17,690
South Ribble 408.8 10.07 39.0 22,398
West Lancashire 376.6 9.56 37.6 20,411
Wyre 294.0 8.38 37.0 16,412


Only Blackpool has a lower average weekly median wage, but Hyndburn has the lowest hourly rate.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

1999-2009 is where the 45% is from (not just my figures, they have been used in the local Observer since I posted them here).

If you take the period 1999-2007 council tax increase is 31.8%. So if you take your figure of 36% over that period, council tax has actually been less than the increase in wages. I hadn't noticed this, thank-you for highlighting it.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I see, you're talking about 2006 where all the Labour councillors abstained rather than voting on the issue. I thought you might have been referring to 2003, where both parties agreed the current system was best.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Do you know I sometimes despair when I read your posts. It has been pointed out that HBC have had numerous grants which should have avoided these big rises in council tax. So why has it gone up by 31.8%?? The fact that it has been less than the increase in wages is neither here nor there because besides council tax everything else has gone up. So the 4.2% extra on wage increases that is over and above the increase in council tax has already been eaten up by the price of other things rising. It is time you entered the real world and admitted that HBC are making a mess of things and wasting money:mad:

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I am a little puzzled about where 2009 comes from (as far as I am aware there has been no council tax set for 2009 (and won't be until the February 2009 meeting of the Council).

My figures for 1998 to 2007 are the increase of the median average hourly rate of pay (excluding overtime) is £10.32 for men (in 1998 it was £8.17) and for women is £6.87 (in 1998 it was £5.87). So in 10 years median hourly pay has only increased by £2.15 for men (26.32%) and for women £1.00 (17.05%). If you use the figures for all employees hourly rates in 1998 were £7.13 and in 2007 were £9.16 (an increase of £2.03 or 22.16%)

Please explain where your figure of 36% increase comes from.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

1999/2000 - 2006/2007 is a 36% increase, my apologies for the lack of clarity.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Bernadette a lot of councils have grants, it is not just HBC, yet the vast majority of councils have had higher tax increases than we have. There is no doubt that food, fuel, stealth taxes, everything is going up an awful lot, but you can't blame HBC for that can you? Nobody likes the council taxing them, but services do not run themselves. The national gap between wage increases and council tax is 50%! Can you not give HBC a bit of credit for keeping it nowhere near that?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I will give credit where it is due and in this case I don't think it is. I would not have been aware of all the grants that HBC have had if it weren't for this thread and feel that if the money had been used correctly the increases would have been less. The service we get is not improving so don't see how these big increases can be justified.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

The median hourly rate for full time workers in 1999 was £6.94 and in 2007 was £9.16 an increase of £2.22 or 31.98%.

Do you not find it disturbing that Hyndburn that median annual earnings (for workers) in Hyndburn in 2007 was only £15282 (which is over £1000 less than the next lowest authority in East Lancashire -Rossendale) and that it had actually fallen from £17698 in 2005 and £15551 in 2006.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Let's not forget the £700,000.00 which was granted to Hyndburn Borough Council to set up a community website, and which through a mixture of incompetence and apathy, they totally wasted.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

The median hourly rate for all workers in 1999 was £6.50 and in 2007 was £7.97 an increase of £1.47 or 22.62 %, which is considerably less than the 31.8% increase in council tax that you are quoting for the same period. In 2004 the hourly rate was £7.96 2005 it was £8.01 and in 2006 it was £7.84. So in from 2004 to 2007 it only rose by £0.01 or 0%.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

now now rindy,thats being selective......................................... ..............................like cyfr.:D

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

So all in all we have nothing to be grateful for, in fact it is disgraceful:mad:

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

It is being honest about the money that has been wasted:p

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

No, just an example of a grant that was given to them, a grant made up of our money, and which was totally wasted.

If an employee had been responsible for such a gross mismanagement of money they would have been sacked, or if they were a business they would soon be shut.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

we all know that,but some can't seem to accept it.;)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Perhaps they didn't even want a community website, as apparently Tony Dobson, currently being fingered as the Conservative candidate come the next General Election, doesn't have access to a computer, and Peter Britcliffe doesn't really feel able to communicate with us this way.

It's all making sense now.:rolleyes:

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

yeh might just have hit the nail there.;):rolleyes:

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

just curious as an non-partisan outsider , according to earlier posts LCC takes 82 % of the council tax , leaving 18% for diving up by HBC the local council .
now a couple of questions .....

1. is this a fixed ratio 82 to 18 or does it fluctuate ?
2 . is there a breakdown of % increases by the LCC and HBC (who is demanding a bigger slice of the pie ?)
3 . Do the tax bills show where the increases have gone ?

Seems to me , and just an observation , the guys on the front line (local councillors ) are being used as whipping boys by their LCC colleagues who are responsible for devouring the bigger part of the pie

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

It was £100,000 less, not that it makes a difference but lets get some accuracy. Where is the report of them wasting it? It looks online to me.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Councillor Peter Britcliffe:
106 New Lane
Oswaldtwistle
BB5 3QW

or

01254 381 147

or

[email protected]

and

Councillor Tony Dobson:
Rosedene Barn
The Bridleway
Off New Lane
Oswaldtwistle
BB5 3QL

or

07774 470 870

or

[email protected]

Feel free if there's something you desperately need to ask them. I have no idea why you're only mentioning Conservative councillors though. Greg Pope has had the facility to use online surgeries through Hyndburn Life and it was very successful when he did.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

They live near me, so if anyone decides to visit them, please come and see me too :p

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

1. The ratio is not fixed, they booth choose independently to raise their segments of the council tax. Policy and Fire services are also now seperate from LCC but all four make up the end figure of council tax (hence HBC get blamed for having a high tax because most of it goes to county)
2. As of 2008 72% goes to Lancashire County Council, 15% to Hyndburn Council, 9% to the Police Authority and 4% to the Fire Authority
3. There was a leaflet with council tax that showed what segment of the council tax went to the four institutions answered in (2) but from what I can remember that is it.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I take it that you have looked at Hyndburn Life recently - most of the information is years out of date. The info about Accrington Stanley quotes season 2005 to 2006.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I see so rather than it being a waste of the original money, it is the council employee not doing his job keeping it up to date? If the job exists of course. Has the upkeep specifically been raised at council do you know?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I have already proved that council tax went up less than weekly wages. I think weekly wages are an awful lot more accurate because they actually take into account how much you work in relation to how much you get per hour - how much people are actually taking home to pay for council tax.

Anyway, services need to be paid for. I don't think it would go down very well if services were cut to further reduce council tax. They're already doing a great job at keeping council tax down if you compare us with the rest of the country, nowhere near the crazy 'most expensive council' claim.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

So says someone who isn't even paying council tax yet.;)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

But hourly rates do have a profound effect on what the weekly wage is, and the percentage increase is still the same . In 1999 median hourly rate (for all workers) was £6.50, multiply by 38 hours per week = weekly earnings of £228.00 or £11856 per ammum, in 2007 median hourly rate (for all workers) was £7.97, multiply by 38 hours per week = weekly earnings of £302.86 or £15748.52 per annum.
I do agree that services need to be paid for.

As a matter of interest do you pay any council Tax?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Actually never mind.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

They could have, but didn't, employ a whole team of people to run the website, with the £591,000.00 that was given to them as a grant.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I have failed to receive your report which details any of this. You do know once the website is built (which costs all the money) it is a simple matter of maintaining it with up to date information. And as yet we don't know why this is (other than speculation) so I am waiting for someone in the know to respond. :)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I apologise for the error I made in my last post in the calculation of wekly wage rates for 1999, the 1999 rate of £6.50 multiplied by 38 hours is £247.00 per week or £12844.

The increase in weekly wages from 1999 to 2007 is £55.86 (or annual increase in weekly wages of £6.28 each year) the increase in annual wages from 1999 to 2007 is £2904.72 (or an annual increase in yearly income of £363.09 each year)

So the percetage increase from 1999 to 2007 is 22.62%.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Is this remark addressed at anyone in particular.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Ever get the feeling there's always somebody who will defend the indefendable :rolleyes:

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I don't really understand what you're getting at. You have already said the increase in weekly wages was 36%, less than council tax over that time. You can find specific circumstances where that is not true, of course, because it's an average. If you are arguing for a review of council tax so that it is based on ability to pay (which you seem to be getting at since I'm sure you accept 45% increase over the last 10 years is much, much less than the average in the country), then that's a national government issue. Our council can only deal under the current structure.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I'm still waiting patiently for Peter Britcliffe's promised enquiry, as to why this shameful waste of public money was allowed to happen.


'Councillor Britcliffe said that he would support an inquiry into the project and added: "The aim was to give people in deprived areas access to the Internet.
"But things move on. These community representatives now have access to the Internet and they don't need to take us on.'
http://www.accringtonobserver.co.uk/...perate_failure

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

There was a cross party one but I don't know enough about it because its spread over loads of different council meetings. Maybe you could use those contact details I gave you. ;)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I'd have thought un-publicity shy Cllr. Britcliffe would have rushed to the press with the findings...unless of course the council didn't look particularly good after this particular debacle.;)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Since it is such a striking issue to you good luck. There's only one way to find out, let us know when you make contact! :D

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I've much more interesting coals burning away in my fire.

Besides, why keep a dog and bark yourself?

Woof.

Who's a good boy Snuffy?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Are you okay Gary? :p

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

What I am saying is that the rise in earnings since 1999 has been 22.62% as against your figures for the rise in Council Tax.

As, in an earlier thread, along similar lines, you would not accept people's own evidence of small wage rises, I thought I would give you some offical figures, but obviously you don't want to accept them because they differ from your arguments

You seem to be under the impression that weekly (and annual) wages in Hyndburn are much higher than they are. Why do you disagree with the ONS statistics – in case you are unaware, the ONS collect wage information from all employers (it did used to be monthly and I assume it still is).

The Median hourly rate in Hyndburn (for all employees in 2007 was - £7.97 per hour, with an average of 37 hours worked per week – based on these figures weekly pay was therefore £294.89 and the gross annual pay was £15282). These area all figures taken from the following the LCC website and cite there source as the ONS.

www.lancashire.gov.uk/office_of_the_chief_executive/lancashireprofile/areas/hyincome.asp
.
No doubt you will note, that the weekly pay actually fell in 2007, in 2006 it was £290.70 per week and in 2005 it was £293.70 per week.

So the residents in the borough are faced by the triple whammy of falling wages, rising Council Tax and lack of good services.

What do you consider an expectable number of hours, that anyone should work to achieve the weekly wage that you think is the average for Hyndburn. Please bear in mind, that in the year 2007, the total Household incomes within Hyndburn range from to £36500 in Baxenden and Altham wards to £22000 in Church ward (which is only 60% of that of Baxenden and Altham wards).

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

All this trying to compare one area with another to work out who has the cheapest Council Tax. Stuff it lets bring back the Poll tax. Everyone pays the same then, none of this you pay more because you have worked hard and bought a big house nonsense. :D

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Councils across East Lancashire have come under fire for using "snooping" powers meant to tackle serious crime.

Hyndburn council has used the powers 189 times since 2001.

Ribble Valley MP Nigel Evans said: "I would have thought dog-fouling would be something community support officers should get involved in.

"I support these powers if they are used to crack down on crime.

"But if they are going to spend lots of taxpayers' money on low-level issues I do not support it."

http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/ne..._and_staff.php

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Claytonender I don't dispute LCC figures (though didn't you get the 36% there?) I think the point is all councils have gone up a lot. Our council has only raised 45% unlike the average of 100% and high of 185%! Credit is due because services still have to be paid for, whether we are in a low income area or not, and central government have dumped councils with tons of responsibility and have not properly funded them, hence the increases. This is across the country not just Hyndburn Council.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Garinda I think that deserves its own thread.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

The 36% is if you only consider full time earnings, not all workers.

As for your comments about central goverment not funding local government properly, maybe if the funding was used for what it was designated for there would be less problems.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

That is a sweeping statement councils are struggling, thankfully Hyndburn is struggling less so. Maybe you'd be in favour of scrapping councils if funding across the country is being mismanaged.

Ah yes, part time workers would be gaining rebates etc on council tax right? So you can't take the direct 22% increase.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I'm sure I'd get into trouble if I started a thread every time I gave an example of Hyndburn Borough Council's barmy, and wasteful spending of our money.

Even when backed up by Tory M.P. Nigel Evans.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

You have a bit of a problem with reading things which are not there. That article doesn't state what sort of things Hyndburn have used the powers far. If it did Nigel's comments would be relevant, and I could make some too.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I read the facts, they are there for all to see.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

You did, and they are, but you haven't represented them in your post.

Nigel commented about dog fouling and petty crime. The article does not state if Hyndburn have used the powers for petty or serious. Fact. You enjoy kicking up a fuss if it mentioned HBC whether they be to blame or not don't you. ;)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

They would not necessarily be getting rebates on Council Tax. It is also dependent on total household income, any savings etc.

You seem to be incapable of grasping just how poor many of the residents of Hyndburn are. Hyndburn has the 2nd lowest weekly/annual wages in the county - only Blackpool is marginally lower, which is probably due to the seasonal jobs in Blackpool.

I know that East Lancashire (OR Penine Lancashire as it is being styled in some quarters) as all is a 'low wage' area, but wehn you compare all the other boroughs, Hyndburn is over £1000 below the next lowest borough for wages -which is Rossendale.
Borough Median
Annual Weekly
Wages in 2007 Wages in 2007
Hyndburn £15282 £287.40
Rossendale £16298 £289.40
Burnley £17232 £308.50
Pendle £18196 £352.80
Blackburn £18284 £354.20
Ribble Valley £20066 £391.90

The GB average is £376.00 per week so Hyndburn's average is £88.60 lower than the National average (which means it is only 76.43% of the Natioanl average wage).

I am pretty sure that the same pattern of both full time and part time work exsists throughout East Lancashire, so it is valid to compare all the 6 Boroughs.

You can very easily check the figures yourself, as I have given you the link to the website.

You are quite incapable of accepting that anyone else has a valid opionion, which is a trait that you share with Peter Britcliffe. Maybe wages would be higher in Hyndburn if he had paid more attention to bringing new inward investment into the borough in 2007, rather than concnetrating his efforts on changing the name of the borough.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Andrew....You have got to realise, the second line of defense is an attempt to ridicule.....Take no notice.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

This is why I've kept with percentage increases. I think it is very weak to argue that I am not capable of accepting other peoples opinion. I have accepted your figures, I accept Hyndburn is a low wage area, I accept what you're saying. However services still have to be paid for.

Do you accept it is good that in terms of PERCENTAGE increase 45% is very good compared with the national percentage increase of 100% and with a maximum of 185%?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Rather than questioning the amount of Council Tax that is being levied, you would do better to question the present administration about what they have spent all the Goverment money that has been ploughed into the borough over the last 3 years on. Just how much of this has been wasted. How much has been spent in the areas, where there is most deprivation? Also why have they spent so much time on the proposed name change, which could have been spent on attracting 'quality' jobs to the borough.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I like to add a little balance.

No more than a little balance is necessary, as your attempt at propoganda, that HBC are good value for money, simply isn't washing.

Certainly not with the people that are actually paying it, unlike you, and who therefore have a better understanding of how hard they have to work to earn the money to pay their Council Tax, weighed against the services they receive back.;)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Oh, so that's what Andrew was trying to convince us of all along, I hadn't quite got that! :D

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I think you misunderstand. I live in a house that is taxed by the council. There is no propaganda, simply putting it as it is. My post didn't claim they were the wonderful and best-est council in the world, it simply gave information I had researched. I am quite happy to be critical of HBC, and if your article about spying powers had claimed HBC had used them for crimes such as dog fouling (which might well be true, we don't know), I would be up in arms.

It was then jumped on by mostly Labour Councillors to have a go at how terrible the council they are apart of is. The same councillors who cannot accept that 45% increase in council tax is considerably better than 100% national average and 185% high. I am glad claims of it being the most expensive council tax in the country have stopped being called though. It's quite evident from my first post that this is not the case.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I just wonder if you would be so supportive of a Labour council, I think not somehow. Time to take the blinkers off methinks:rolleyes:

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Who are you adressing?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

AndrewB who else?;)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

If a Labour Council were to produce 45% increase over 10 years while the national average was 100% I would be perfectly happy to give credit where it is due. I can tell you that honestly. Although I somehow doubt it would be the case as up until recently every opposition (Labour) budget has increased council tax higher than the Conservative one.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Don't know...not a mind reader.......If you want to quote a statement I would be much obliged....but it general terms...it could be anyone.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Anybody who has something constructive to say I grant you, all you are doing on this thread is trying to ridicule Garinda!!!

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Some people have the ability to make themselves look ridiculous, without any help from me at all.:D

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Is that a sin in your book?..............He's a big boy and can look after himself............Ridicule is probably something you can't see through.
Look at the thread from the very first page and see where it starts to deteriate......In your eyes it may be an attempt to ridicule Garinda but if everyone thought in a nieve way that you do, you would have us all believing that what Garinda say's should be taken on board as gospel.
We can laugh, we can cry, but most of all we despair.
A campaign for good or bad is relient on what can be done to resolve a situation and all the screaming or shouting on Accyweb will not resolve anything....I'ts alright being a 'Big Man' on here but really, is anyone taking any notice?

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I have been following the thread from the first page and Garinda has raised some good points about how HBC have wasted a hell of a lot of money that if used correctly could have been used to avoid the rise in concil tax. I do not think in a naive way I look at the facts put before me. If anybody is trying to be the "Big Man" it is you.
We have had some good costructive arguements as to why OUR council tax could have been kept lower, have you got any counter arguments to show me this wasn't possible???

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

What is the use of putting the arguements forward on here?
Vote for the council you want...dont scream after you have been defeated by the majority vote.
I notice the shout 'OUR' . It was 'our' when you were wearing nappies and Garinda was'nt even born.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

As I thought you have no counter arguements to offer.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Here endeth the first lesson. :)

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

I do think HBC have wasted a lot of our money. I'm sure they think it grows on trees, and isn't the result of people's hard earned wages.

Half a million here, half a million there. Broadway's refurbishment being another example, which will have been a total waste of money if the new plans for the town centre go ahead.

I do think it a bit rich that a student who has never actually paid council tax, delights in telling us what good value for money the council is. I'm more inclined to listen to the views of someone who has to pay a large proportion of their wages out in council tax, and for them to decide if we are getting good value in services.

My stance isn't political, as I've said many times before on here the best borough I ever lived in for services, and paid council tax in, was Tory run Wandsworth. It was also the cheapest borough in the country, though being the flagship council for the then Conservative government probably helped a bit with keeping the the costs down, as they literally threw money at us.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Forward planning, for the real benefit of the people who live here, only seems to stretch as far as the next election.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

In Local and General Elections this appears to be the case

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Still people will not give credit to HBC for a 45% increase beating the national average by 55%. I am happy to admit where HBC have gone wrong, waiting on information about Hyndburn Life, and spying powers. Garinda, if you didn't know, houses pay council tax unless all residents are full time students.

Re: Council Tax 2008/2009
 

Thats politics for you. The Labour supporters cant admit that the Torys may have done something good. All they will do is point out what they have done wrong.

The same works the other way around of course.