Council Overspend
 

Have I missed this news in another thread or has andrewb not been on to tell us how good the council are on this matter ?

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk...ll_be_2_3m.php

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Do they have to put that face on the website:(....TWICE

That what happens when ya got torys running it!

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i eagerly await the next "Round" of bullS***.:D:rolleyes:

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Maybe he should try doing something about the way Accrington looks rather than over-spending on rubbish, there arent many decent shops in Accrington anymore, come to think of it there arent many in Darwen either, it makes you wonder why people go out of town to go shopping doesnt it

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Was that an invitation for Graham to post?


I think your post hit the nail on the head.
I wonder what this game is all about?

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Darwen isn't in Hyndburn :rolleyes:

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lucky swines :D

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I've been rather busy in Haltemprice and Howden so not been keeping up to date with whats going on.

All I can say is what would the overspend be if we had voted for Labour and had an unfunded 3% tax cut in addition!

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Hats off to them.

They did incredibly well to keep this shocker underwraps until after the recent elections.

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'Mr Pope has revealed figures showing government grants to the council had actually increased by £3m since 2002, and that this year it received a £571,000 rise.'


Frighteningly sad.

As I've said many times before (yawn,) I wouldn't trust most of the present incumbents to run a jumble sale successfully, nevermind multi-million pound bugets.:(

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Standard political answer, avoid the issue and start name calling the opposition :mad:

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I know there's a Gooseberry Fool, but is there a Goole Fool?:rolleyes:

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thats because i drag you out of town for shopping :p

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Dave i think he was saying that because he's from Darwen

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and it will be long forgot by the time the next elections come around:rolleyes:

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Talk about being blinkered!

Who's to say whether Labour would have done better or worse at budget management? Very few of the current Labour councillors were on the council seven years ago when they last had control so the current lot really haven't had the opportunity to show what they would or could do to manage the budgets.

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It's always the same isn't it?

It's like people harking back to Margaret Thatcher whenever they talk about the Conservative party.....as if she's got anything to do with the Conservatives' policies today. :confused:

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thats all you can say, cos you can't defend it.:rolleyes:

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It doesn't help Labour's case though that they didn't submit a budget this year so they don't really have much of an argument.

Usually, they submit an alternative budget, that way when there is an overspend, they can point to their own and say 'well we would have spent the money this way'!

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wether they did or not is irrelavant, cos they aint made a balls of it.;)

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Seeing as the Council are in a mess money wise does this mean that all employees will have there wages frozen like what would happen in the real world?

I know I did not get a pay rise for 3 years at a company I worked for because they were not profitable at that time.

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yeh neil but yer n oik you aint important.;):rolleyes:

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Yes I was at the bottom of the food chain but no one in the company had a rise.

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As usual you have Peter Britcliffe saying one thing and Greg Pope and Graham Jones saying the opposite.....no wonder a lot of people don't know who to believe when they read the papers.

If Peter Britcliffe said Ewood Park was in Blackburn, Greg Pope and Graham Jones would say it wasn't. :rolleyes:

Peter Britcliffe says that the situation is due to government money being axed from this area meaning that we are over budget and local projects that had been allocated funding will have to wait. The fault lies with the government.

Greg Pope says there was never any such government money and that this is all Hyndburn Conservatives' fault as they are guilty of budget mis--management.

As has been said, would HBC have been declared an excellent council if they were guilty of overspending our money? :confused:

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I think you would find Greg agreeing with PB on that one

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I daren't be sure. :rolleyes:

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Well they were classed as an 'excellent' council last year - if there is any budget mismanagement it has happened this financial year, so the two things aren't connected.

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well as both are rovers fans, (to best of my knowledge) ya would be wrong lilly.:D

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I agree, a little knowledge coupled with complete conjecture and the right to know, baffes the brains of the one's who know now't but pretend they do.

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if that was the case, the firm would probably have gone tits up, if ya didn't. which is not really relavent with coco n his clowns.:D

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I thought that was this year. :confused:

It says 12th Feb 08 on here.

http://www.audit-commission.gov.uk/P...Feb2008REP.pdf

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You know what I meant. :p

It was just a turn of phrase.

I just meant one says something and the other contradicts it every time.

No wonder you get people saying they're all as bad as each other at election time.

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of coarse i knew, but it is my vocation in life to aggravate as many as is humanly possible.:D

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And you do a fine job good sir.

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why thank you neil, its very heartwarming to know my efforts are not all in vain, i shall rest easy tonight.:D

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I don't really take notice of who said what.

I just read the facts as reported in the Telegraph, and those facts are shocking.

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Financial year.
The 'excellent' was for the last financial year - May 07 - May 08
Any issues with budget at the moment are related to this financial year - May 08 - May 09 - which we're only two months in to.

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By the way - does anyone know where Pendle St is and why it's had so much work done on it?

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This seems rather strang to me, prior to the budget meeting in Feb Cllr Jones said on here and in the media that he had a 40 point plan for Hyndburn, I think Neil even asked him if we could have a sneak preview on Accy Web, we didn't get one. A the budget meeting in Feb the Tories put their budget forward as did the independent councillors, but cllr Jones sat on his hands, seems his 40 point plan could not be costed. He did say that he would have used balances to keep the council tax low, balances which didn't exist under the last Labour Admin. Its interesting to here that the Labour Party are saying that the Tories knew full well that he Government money wouldn't be forth coming this year, if that is the case, then Labour must have known too. With this in mind why as it taken until mid June before the news came out. Knowing cllr Joneses track record if he or Mr Pope had know this why did they not scream it from the roof tops in the run up to the May elections, after alls said and done Labour didn't have much going far it at the last elections, and they would have milked this big time, the problem is Labour is a busted flush and are now clutching at straws.

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whatever labours problems or not jaysay, the fact remains that the finances seem to be in a mess n labour do not hold the purse strings.:rolleyes:

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this might help explain it Gayle


http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...cab_report.pdf

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I am not seeking to defend what has happened. I am however raising an important point.

We are told Britcliffe knew about the grant cuts, and yet Labour never bothered to inform us, them, and failed to set out another budget with the correct amendments.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and the electorate have the legitimate right to condem this. The Labour party have no right to condem this, we would be in the exact same, if not worse, situation, if they have been the elected the majority in May.

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Ya cashy but it doesn't help when the govrnment pull the rug out does it:(

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that tunnel visioned view does you no credit at all, in fact it shows you to be a very weak person,IMHO, who knew what is NOT n important point, its the elected body that should inform people, not the MP. all you are trying to do is deflect the spotlight n i'm willing to bet people see right through you.:rolleyes:

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Considering I have already said that HBC are in the wrong by not defending them, I don't really see what there is to see through. It would do everyone a world of good if both parties could own up to the mistake.

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Here you go Gayle - Pendle Street, Accrington

It is off Willows Lane, go up Willows lane to the roundabout, straight over it and first left

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clutching at straws i see, BOTH parties were not holding the purse strings, ONE party was, thats were the mistake that counts is. so thats what there is to see through, you trying to deflect from the main point of the OVERSPEND. it would do you a world of good to remove yer blinkers.:rolleyes:

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The Government did not pull the rug out. Yes, there was £700k that wasn't given this year - this was a one off payment that happened last year and last year alone - it should not have been assumed that they would get it again.

Yet, even without that £700k - the government actually gave more to HBC this year than last!!!!!

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Personally can't see the problem myself. The overspend will be made up in the council tax next year. As we all know from andrew, we get excellent value for money and therefore the more money we pay the more value we will get. We should count ourselves lucky. :)

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Perhaps dimwitted lottery/pools winners think they too are going to win the jackpot every year, for the rest of their lives.:rolleyes:

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think they do, but thats there personal choice, those dimwits were NOT elected to represent the people of this borough.:rolleyes:

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Gayle wins the lottery several times every year :p:rolleyes::D

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I get it now.

Thanks, Gayle. :D

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I often browse these "council" related threads without comment 'cause it's none of my business and a lot of it I don't understand. But I am curious about this one. For starters, the five or so million dollar shortfall does not seem all that large to be concerned about; it's about half of what Kingston City Council budgets for snow removal. And our snow removal budget could, like last winter, go way over if there is more snow than normal; and none of us get flustered about it. And I am curious about what Hyndburn council actually does, what its responsibilities and powers are. How big is the council budget? Is council responsible for road maintaniance? Who pays for policing? Etc.:confused:

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I don't think I am trying to deflect from it at all. I don't see why you're trying to tar me in this thread when I have already said it is wrong. I am not seeking to defend the Conservatives, the council, or anybody at all. All I said is the electorate have a legitimate reason to complain, not councillors who failed to put forward an alternative budget. Don't see nout wrong with that.

Simply putting it how it is, we'd be in the same mess under the other lot because they didn't do anything different budget wise. Not that this makes it ok. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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if disagreeing with you is tarring you then i plead guilty. i am stating fact, who holds the purse strings is guilty no-one else simple as that.

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Both parties had a chance to get elected the majority in May.

So the Conservatives create a budget in Feb.

The Labour party create no alternative budget.

The Conservatives get the elected majority.

Theres a £2.3million overspend

And you're telling me its all the Conservatives fault because they got the majority. I am telling you it would be no different under Labour - same budget. Where do we disagree?

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There seems to be a confusion of issues here (or maybe I'm naturally in a state of confusion). Is it a question of overspending, or of which political party is in power at the moment?

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not suprised yer confused mate Conservatives are in power, Labour are opposition in hyndburn, Cyfr is trying to make the case that those in power are only as much too blame as the opposition, no wonder yer confused.:rolleyes:

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If Labour had been in power this thread would have been a damn sight longer you can bet;)

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Ouch Berny... That's brave....PB would have been drowned for less than that?

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Thats twice since your little chat with Peter in the park on Sunday that you have said good things about Him and the Tories.

What was it he said to you that is turning you into a Tory supporter? :rolleyes::D

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That is an interesting point. Maybe Graham will explain why they did this. Maybe it is all part of his Labour master plan.

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Anyone know what the Councils budget is for the year so we can see it as a percentage. It may only be a little overspeed or could be massive.

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Just stating the obvious, nothing brave about it:)

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Speed is that not a banned substance? :D

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I think it's the fifth nice thing I've said this year.:eek:

I like to keep a tally, for when that old chesnut is thrown at me, about being anti-Tory.:rolleyes:

That's the beauty of being non-partisan.:D

I'm not tied to any party pap.;)

I can say it how it is.:)

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Nope it is a typo :p

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Let's hope it's not like a 'projected' quote when you get the builders in, or take your car to the garage, and it actually ends up costing double the price that was first mooted.

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Know that...but according to some I'm a rebel so might as well keep it up. :hesoff:;)

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The Revenue Budget first. We did what every Council has done since about 1997 - put an amendment in that must be ratified as acceptable by the Chief Finance Officer. No-one has ever put in an alternate budget. Your getting muddled and totally confused in what you're saying.

This overspend is on the Capital Budget, not the Revenue Budget. I flagged it up 5 years ago and there are plenty of posts on here where I have warned about our reliance on bank borrowing and outstanding loans. It was and is a time bomb due to mismanagement. The £7.4 million from Government has just hidden the problem away for three years. The £7.4m HiP money should have been spent on Housing outside the ELEVATE area (which Pendle St isn't), ie The big losers are Rishton and Great Harwood.

In 2004 they said we were very good and then someone discovered a '£2m black hole' and we were downgraded. (Someone sense deja-vu!). The Auditors came in for a week, travel around on buses where the Council wants them to go, interview a few important Council officials about our ambitions. This year they were put up the Dunkenhalgh and finished off with voulevants and expensive champagne. I was barred from being interviewed.

Peter Britcliffe has been very successful at getting this false message out and we have been poor at telling the truth. Oppositions have never put an alternate budget but proposed some amendments. Peter brags abut his being done on a fag packet. During the 90's there was a period when the Conservatives offered no amendments when rate capping was at it worst and Labour in control were left having as the only party announcing any cuts.

This year as traditional, we put forward an amendment of 3% less Council Tax (£150k) as we had received 450k windfall final payment from the transfer of Council Houses and we were putting into reserves ongoing savings of £450k way above national guidelines on reserves.

Every year Councils alter their budgets as the year goes along. I wanted to avoid 2 minute petty arguments and wreckless amendments that result in £50,000 getting spent on the hoof. That's sensible, we're being sensible.

The Council has 4 Accounts, Revenue, Capital, HRA and ring fenced external budgets. This year we received another Government windfall (Dec 2007), The Worklessness Fund, £4m. We had to come up with ideas in order to spend the money, hence the bulk of the 40 initiatives which needed a bit more input. Mr Farrer and Mr 'Andrew' try to convince people that the 40 uncosted initiatives are 'uncosted from the Revenue Account' without saying the words 'Revenue Account' because they know it's from the Worklessness Fund Budget which needs ideas and needs spending.

It's not one view against another. It's just plain nonsense and totally inaccurate.

You are absolutely right. One of us is not telling the truth. You need to come to the meetings to work out which one it is for yourself Lilly.

We inherited a reserve of £200,000 IIRC. In the first month we were told the Tories had all but bankrupt the Council and that's why pretty much straigh away under Labour in 2002 you saw a massive voluntary redundancy programme. It was all reported and minuted. What was unknown in the advice was HOW MUCH WAS BEING OVERSPENT. Labour made one or two poor decisions that year that added to the problem. With the scrapping of CCT, outside contracts were let go as the works dept came inhouse. Secondly, whilst no-one has found a way that we could have reduced golden handshakes, i just feel that we might have been able. But workers were going out on strike over the Council anyway, it was just a nighmare. We inherited a ghost ship drifting in a force 10 storm with holes below the bow.

It's HiPs money and notification came in May. Budgets are set in Feb. As Cllr Pritchard said, you don;t go into ASDA knowing you have got £50 and spend £200 from expected future income that was unknown. That's bad management. For 5 years I have talked about this time bomb. I have led on trying to get somethinbg done. Unfortunatley people like you won't listen for political reasons and not for the best of residents... And it is going to get worse...

Well that says a lot about Tory strategy. Turn everything to a political advantage every time. Like a senior Tory said last week. "Actually Labour and Tory get on quite well in Hyndburn when you look around elsewhere". It's just the media influencing people. I'll repeat again. Labour Councillors care and prefer an honest debate for the best of the Borough. I'll tale your comments as an endorsement of that.

See above. Mr 'Andrew' is quick to leave words, times, details out. The money came in May the budget was in February. For 5 years we have said borrowing is too high and the Capital programme is a black hole waiting to happen. The £7.4m HiPs money, which you were told about clearly by me and a Council Officer (so no excuses) has been misused and has covered up Council failure. To grasp the scale of the problem you have to add the £7.4m to the current £2.3m debt to see the scale of expenditure over 3 years and now HiPs has ended, how we can continue like this.

Are you suggesting a one party state??????

No we wouldn't. See previous posts. Labour left a £11m debt in 1999. By 2006 this was £26m under the Tories. For 5 years I have banged on about loans (and the fact we can't afford to borrow any more) including on here. The £7.4m HiPs simply bought time but it was meant to be speant on housing in Gt Harwood and Rishton but wasn't. Local people should pay more interest in what happens locally and they might lose out less. I feel sorry for them but what can I do? I only have one vote and it's not on Gt H or Rishton.

This is spot on Gayle. Details are available under the Freedom of Information Act that verify this.

See above Andrew. There has never been an alternate budget, there are amendments. You're also confusing Capital and Revenue budgets.

A lot of the black hole has happened off balance sheet (concealed). We have uncovered the real Capital budget recently and the figures are not the ones presented to Council. They are out by £1million. Pendle Street is a political decision to win votes but at such a high cost it could only be viewed as 'corrupt'. As stated the £710,000 less HiPs is just a fraction of the £2.3m (Actually around £3.5m when you factor in Pendle St).

Those figures were downplayed too, till after the election and the votes had been counted. We said at Full Council all programmes would provisionally be accepted but an incoming Labour Council would review every one because we knew the pending black hole in finances.

I don't think so because we have been warning about mismanagement for a while. Housing grants needed to be cut back in 2003 but poor management and political corruption allowed them to continue.

People are also confused because they have been told it is an excellent council and think Labour Councillors are stirring up trouble.

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A rebel ehh, I have heard people refer to you as an ex-pat jambutty but never a rebel :rolleyes::p:D

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i aint tied either, just dont do nice.:D;)

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I think you might be right Bernie :rolleyes:

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Nice work if you can get it!

I wonder how much, and who funded, this not so little jolly?

I think it's outrageous that the leader of the opposition on the council wasn't interviewed, whoever that might be at particular time. There's nothing like a little balance, and it would stop later accusations of a whitewash.

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I spoke with a senior Auditor (from the Audit Commission) from Sheffield last month and told him this. He was amazed and thought the Auditors were 'clearly not up to the job'. He said what any Joe Bloggs would work out from the beginning to interview the Leader and Opposition Leader. I think the accommodation and food was more than up to standard (check the photos of them all guzzling champers) and they didn't want to offend their host. The spreads were all the finest foods. The Council paid by the way.

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I know it's not historically possible, but I've just got this vision of meglomaniacal Nero, playing on the fiddle, while all around him was being destroyed by fire, and at the same time Marie Antoinette scoffing expensive little cakes.

I suppose it'll be the poor saps who are struggling to survive on crumbs, and who will have to fund this bean feast, who'll be the losers.

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Could this not be payback time for the Prats at the helm in Downing Street who have operated a 'Need to know' policy from square one?

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Ok, so the Duke of Kent might not have known where Hyndburn is, but after this lavish show of hospitality was laid on, I bet those Champagne quaffing Auditors will never forget Hyndburn in a hurry.

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In this time of economic uncertainty, when many people are struggling financially, even the Queen was wise enough to cancel any show of overt ostentation, at the public's expense, for her Diamond Wedding celebrations later this year.

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ah but the queens not our beloved council leader.:rolleyes:

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I bet they are treated to similar quaffing by most Council's.

Probably Neil. Thats the name of the game isn't it?

Got to say Andrew attended Peel & Barnfield AC and I want to thank him. I might not agree with but participation is important.

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While you are about Graham what is all this money being spent on Pendle Street?
It is a lot of cash after all. Are these private or Council/HH houses?
Come to think of it while I am asking questions, do HBC own any houses anymore or did all the stock transfer to HH?

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Is the money being spent in Pendle Street not home improvement grants?

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Why just one street? I drove down it today whilst passing nearby. It looks quite a tidy street with the properties in good external order. Much better than other streets around the same area.

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Maybe the street looks tidy because it has had so much money spent on it. These grants are for quite extensive improvements internal and external.

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The paper say
I would like to know why any of my Council tax is used to refurbish private properties if that is the case. Improvements grants should come from central Government in my opinion. Maybe someone can explain what it is all about.

Another story in the Observer refers to an arrested murderer from 24 Pendle Street.

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Actually, the more I've read about this the more it seems like a huge non-story!

The budget is set for X amount, it turns out that they won't get the X amount to be able to spend it so they do some cost cutting before it's spent.

The analogy of going into Asda with £50 and buying goods of £200 is right. All that's happened is that they've got to the second aisle (realised that they're going to spend too much and decided not to put steak and salmon in the trolley). Seems quite a prudent approach to me.

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Not sure about this but am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong, doubt very much that council tax money is used for home improvement grants. As I say prepared to be corrected but would imagine some sort of Goverment Grants pay for these.

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That analogy is all well and good but along with basic food stuff, lets hope there's still enough left for toilet roll.:D

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We managed quite well with newspaper when we had 'the long drop' loos, but not many of us buy newspapers nowadays do we?

Toilet paper used to be an expensive luxury - we may well be due for hardtimes ahead - I am researching economy tips used during wartime rationing days - watch this space ;)

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Well I'll be the first to admit it but, Gayle and myself have not always seen eye to eye, on some things, but I think she this spot on here. The time to make a song and dance about the subject would have been at the end of the financia year if there HAD have been a huge over spend, not now, and I would like to think that the best person to out line this is Joe Mcintyre, the Executive Director for resources, as unlike Cllrs Britcliffe and Jones he has no political points to score

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thats a refreshing change jaysay, ya mentioned somebody worth listening to.:D;)

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All good and well but this is a predicted overspend for this financial year. Things aren't looking to great if they can predict such a big overspend at this early stage of the present financial year. Surely it works like any budget and there can be any amount of unexpected costs that may occur so it could be a lot more than predicted.

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You go into ASDA spend £50, go sit in the cafe and think about how you can pull the wool over the eyes of the people you promised to spend the other £150 on.

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I think you should be reading and responding to the thread Support for Migrants than carrying on with this nonsense?

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Who is that directed at? :confused: