Accrington Web - Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

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garinda

25-06-2008 11:58

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker (Post 598137)

I believe that humans have a natural instinct for any kind of sexual intercourse because genetically speaking it has for the most part of humans' existence provided reproduction, which is the core survival instinct. This means that the only 'natural' course of sexual intercourse is for reproduction, and we're just using our instincts for differing ends otherwise as we do have the ability to defeat our genes. Instincts are harder to overcome.
I refer you to my earlier post.

So you are saying that any heterosexual union, where there is no chance of conception, is also unnatural?

shakermaker

25-06-2008 12:08

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598150)

So you are saying that any heterosexual union, where there is no chance of conception, is also unnatural?

It is fueled by natural means by way of instinct, however consciously working towards an unnatural end.

garinda

25-06-2008 12:20

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

I guess I'm just lucky, in that my opinions were formed by receiving a secular education.

Personally I don't understand people who go train spotting, though I suppose how they spend their time is natural to them.

shakermaker

25-06-2008 12:22

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598158)

I guess I'm just lucky, in that my opinions were formed by receiving a secular education.

I suppose I'm all the more lucky, in ignoring my (albeit diluted and half-arsed) faith based secondary education and finding my own opinions ;)

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 12:24

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598119)

I notice that you haven't commented as to whether you think every act of union, which may include a man who has had a vasectomy, a post menepausal woman, or indeed any couple who use contraception, is also 'unnatural', because there is no chance of any offspring being produced.

I didn't think that I needed to comment, but if you insist. Strictly speaking, contraception of any kind (including vasectomies) is going against nature, but as advanced human beings we override nature everyday. I feel like I'm going round in circles here. Homosexuality isn't natural, it's an aberration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598119)

As for mentioning your karma comment, it certainly wasn't me.

If you don't believe me I could always give you a karma comment now, if you so wish.:D

You can take this as a compliment, but I never thought that it was you. Of course if you're looking to throw some positive karma my way... well, I wouldn't refuse it. ;)

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 12:26

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by keetah992000 (Post 598149)

i havent read though all the posts -

That was your first mistake.

garinda

25-06-2008 12:26

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

I suppose the people who think that any act of union, which cannot result in conception, must think those who decide to remain lifelong virgins, such as priests and nuns, are the most unnatural of all.:rolleyes:

shakermaker

25-06-2008 12:28

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598162)

Indeed.

Again, I refer you to my earlier post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Just because a person believes homosexuality is unnatural does not mean they lead lynchings or at all condemn homosexuality.
People are mistakenly confusing what is natural with what is 'good' and in turn unnatural acts with what is 'bad'.
Believing homosexuality is unnatural is a opinion on biology and by no means a signal of homophobia.

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 12:30

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598162)

The thing is, we resist nature on a daily basis, by living to an old age instead of dying at around 30, by not conceiving children every time we have sex, by choosing not to pass on our genes, etc.

garinda

25-06-2008 12:31

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tin Monkey (Post 598160)

...and how do the many cases of homosexuality, in animal species other than man, override nature?

garinda

25-06-2008 12:35

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tin Monkey (Post 598165)

The thing is, we resist nature on a daily basis, by living to an old age instead of dying at around 30, by not conceiving children every time we have sex, by choosing not to pass on our genes, etc.

Pity Accy Web isn't scratch 'n' sniff.:rolleyes:

I've always wondred what hypocrisy smelled like.:D

jambutty

25-06-2008 12:47

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas.lee (Post 597483)

How is it 'over the top'?! There are countless adverts where we see a man & woman kiss.. but just because its two men you think its over the top and 'dont like it'! What you have basically just said is homophobic, and its people like you who give children of today the impression that homosexuality is wrong, which leads to bullying throughout schools, and other acts of discrimination such as racism etc.

Absolutely no justification for your comments.

I haven’t seen this advert but if it showed two men kissing on the lips then I would have been disgusted. It happened once in Dr Who too, when the doctor kissed Captain Jack.

Homosexuality is against nature and just an unfortunate mix of genes.

All life forms on this planet are here to procreate and further the species. Homosexuals cannot do this naturally. So if someone is born as a homosexual it is nature’s way of ensuring that that particular mix of genes cannot be passed on. We defy nature at our peril.

What is totally wrong is one partner in a lesbian relationship becoming pregnant by whatever means and for them to bring that child up or to adopt a child. The same goes for two gay men adopting a child even if one of them actually fathers that child.

Just imagine the bullying at school or on the street when it becomes known that little Johnny or Mary has two parents of the same sex. That kids life will become a misery. Kids can be vicious against kids from ‘normal’ families so what chance has little Johnny with two dads?

There is enough child sexual abuse going on from its natural parents as it is, so imagine the potential abuse of a young girl whose parents are lesbians? Or a young boy who has two male parents?

Parents will bring kids up in their own image. If two lesbians or two gay men had a child of their sex to bring up, wouldn’t they do the same? A child learns from its parents and even if it isn’t born with the wrong mix of genes the poor kid could learn to bend that way, because for it, it is the norm.

emamum

25-06-2008 12:50

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598174)

Homosexuality is against nature and just an unfortunate mix of genes.

All life forms on this planet are here to procreate and further the species. Homosexuals cannot do this naturally. So if someone is born as a homosexual it is nature’s way of ensuring that that particular mix of genes cannot be passed on. We defy nature at our peril.

.

Have you not contradicted yourself there??

garinda

25-06-2008 12:51

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598174)

All life forms on this planet are here to procreate and further the species. Homosexuals cannot do this naturally. So if someone is born as a homosexual it is nature’s way of ensuring that that particular mix of genes cannot be passed on. We defy nature at our peril.

Though let's not forget that homosexuals are the result of a 'natural' heterosexual coupling.;)

jambutty

25-06-2008 12:53

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 597611)

i found this advert offensive not because it was 2 gay men but because they had a child calling the man mummy

sory but that dosnt sit right with me and although no expert i dont think gay male couples who have children would expect a child to call a man mummy just as 2 lesbian women wouldnt expect a child to call a woman daddy

well thats what i think anyway

Agreed!

accyman

25-06-2008 12:57

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

i listened to the advert on the radio when it was been dicussed and the dj said the boy called a man mummy and that is the bit i think was bad taste,if the boy didnt call a man mummy then fair enough but i posted on the information i had heard on bbc radio2

either way heinz chose homosexuality to boost their product just like eastenders did when they boosted their shows ratings by showing 2 men snogging for the first time on a tv show

when there are no people left who are against homosexuality to talk about it what are they going to use to shock people with adverts

pedophiles promoting habbo sweets in a playground perhaps ?

garinda

25-06-2008 12:59

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598174)

If two lesbians or two gay men had a child of their sex to bring up, wouldn’t they do the same? A child learns from its parents and even if it isn’t born with the wrong mix of genes the poor kid could learn to bend that way, because for it, it is the norm.

There is absolutely no evidence that this is the case.

After all, if we are the result of nurture rather than nature, there wouldn't be any homosexuals at all, as the vast majority of children are brought up by heterosexual parents.

The percentage of homosexuals is exactly the same in whatever type of household a child is reared in, regardless of the gender, or the sexual orientation, of the parent(s).

jambutty

25-06-2008 13:16

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 598135)

What about all the people who can't have children because they are infertile? Are they normal? Maybe we should test people before they marry and not allow it if they can't reproduce. :hidewall:

People who are infertile are ‘built’ that way. If they cannot spawn offspring it is natures way of not allowing the ‘wrong build’ from being passed on.

Royboy39

25-06-2008 13:22

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598186)

If they cannot spawn offspring it is natures way of not allowing the ‘wrong build’ from being passed on.

That's why they have a man at Queens Park with Valium and a knife. :rolleyes:

garinda

25-06-2008 13:25

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598186)

People who are infertile are ‘built’ that way. If they cannot spawn offspring it is natures way of not allowing the ‘wrong build’ from being passed on.

Would it not be their parents who are 'unnatural', in the fact that they produced someone who was infertile, and had already passed on their genes?

jambutty

25-06-2008 13:31

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598182)

Not yet there isn’t because it is only recently that homosexual couples have been able to become parents to children. We will find out in ten, fifteen years time.

When a child is born it will have a particular mix of genes. If the mix went wrong and the result was a homosexual child that would not show until early teens at the earliest and in the meantime it would be brought up as a heterosexual child. Although there could be signs in early childhood.

Funny little fellow,
Wears his sister’s clothes.
Don’t know what to call him,
But we think he’s one of those.

jambutty

25-06-2008 13:35

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598189)

Would it not be their parents who are 'unnatural', in the fact that they produced someone who was infertile, and had already passed on their genes?

It is the wrong mix of good genes that can produce an offspring that is infertile or gay or blind or whatever.

jambutty

25-06-2008 13:37

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Thanks to [email protected] I was able to watch the ad.

It portrays two men in a domestic relationship bringing up two kids, one small boy and one small girl. Never mind the product. That is incidental.

The two kids have been ‘programmed’ to call one of the men mum (much in the same way that a step parent acquires the mantle of mum or dad) and that above anything else sends out the wrong message. The kiss just reinforces that message.

That advert should never have been shown.

garinda

25-06-2008 13:41

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598190)

Not yet there isn’t because it is only recently that homosexual couples have been able to become parents to children. We will find out in ten, fifteen years time.

Maybe not in Darwen, but those lesbians who wanted a family, have been self inseminating for at least forty years.

Therefore all the research that has been done, which shows the incidence of homosexuality is no greater in homes with homosexual parent(s), is valid.

garinda

25-06-2008 13:44

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Strangely the most effective cure for homophobia, or those who think nurture is stronger than nature, is when one of their own children, or grandchildren, turn out to be homosexual.

God help 'em.:D

jambutty

25-06-2008 13:46

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598195)

Prove it!!!

garinda

25-06-2008 13:54

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598197)

Prove it!!!

Research suggests that sexual identities (including gender identity, gender-role behavior, and sexual orientation) develop in much the same ways among children of lesbian mothers as they do among children of heterosexual parents (Patterson, 2004a). Studies of other aspects of personal development (including personality, self-concept, and conduct) similarly reveal few differences between children of lesbian mothers and children of heterosexual parents (Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999).

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/parents.html

Though if you wanted me to prove that lesbians have been using turkey bastors, for uses that they weren't really designed for, I'll leave you to do your own research.

Less	25-06-2008 14:06

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598191)

It is the wrong mix of good genes that can produce an offspring that is infertile or gay or blind or whatever.

Thank you Mr. Hitler, let's bring back the death camps!

As irritating as I find homosexuals that have no tolerance for the rest of us, I find your comments to be those of the intellectually blind, when we re-introduce the camps, can we move you to the front of the queue?
:rolleyes:

accyman

25-06-2008 14:11

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 598200)

let's bring back the death CAMPS!

literally lol :D

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 14:25

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

I was waiting for this argument to arrive and here it is at last. Anybody who voices an opinion which goes against today's moral climate on homosexuality is automatically branded as a homophobe and by association, a Nazi or right-wing extremist.

I also don't understand where Rindy's claim of hypocrisy comes from. I've stayed loyal to my original argument throughout.

jambutty

25-06-2008 14:38

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 598198)

Interesting article.

I am not doubting the ability of homosexuals to be good parents. Indeed I would suggest that being out of the mainstream they would make greater efforts to show that they could be good parents.

Quote:

“Results of social science research have failed to confirm any of these concerns about children of lesbian and gay parents”

But they haven’t unequivocally denied that there could be concerns. In other words the jury is still out. And whilst the jury is out kids do not belong in a same sex environment.

West Ender

25-06-2008 14:41

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598193)

Nonsense. Do you really believe that, in a gay partnership, one partner would be a New York Deli worker, dressed for the role and serving behind a counter? You really think that person would say, in response to the child's request for a sandwich, "You got it, kid"? For Heaven's sake, it's meant to be funny. Has your sense of humour been totally crushed by outrage and indignation over 2 men in a mock domestic scene?

jambutty

25-06-2008 14:46

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 598200)

Can I remind the reader that it was not me who first got personal? I never do in spite of the many accusations that I have received.

Thus I reserve the right to retaliate in kind if I choose to. But I choose not to on this occasion other than - if the best that you can do is to get personal then you don’t have a case to make.

Less	25-06-2008 15:00

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598216)

You foolish fellow, yet again you choose rather than to realise how wrong you are, to think I was just being personal, no I wasn't being personal I was picking holes in the pile of garbage you posted.

Retaliate anyway you wish but one thing for certain you will never admit that what you posted was the type of thought that caused the Holocaust.

jambutty

25-06-2008 15:06

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender (Post 598214)

Another person getting personal! It never ends does it? But then that is what happens when someone cannot counter what has been written and can only resort to personal and disparaging remarks.

First of all it is clearly a domestic scene and the “wife” could well be ready to go to work in a deli once the kids and “husband” are safely sent off to school and work. Hence the outfit. Taxi drivers leave home in their uniform as do nurses, bus drivers etc.

Doesn’t “hubby” say, “See you tonight love”? And afterwards “wifey” says, “Love you.”

That advert is normalising two gay men as parents of children and is totally out of order.

Incidentally have your kids never rushed in saying something like, “Can I have a ……..”? The “wife’s” response was what he was used to saying at his place of work. Nothing wrong in that.

West Ender

25-06-2008 15:16

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Jambutty, why do you overreact and describe everything as "personal"? Logically, any reply specific to something you have posted has got to be personal but it does not imply an attack, merely a difference of opinion. I find the scenario of the advert amusing and I don't look for a hidden agenda. Being realistic if 200 people complained about this, out of the many tens of thousands who must have seen it, perhaps more saw it my way than yours.

cashman

25-06-2008 16:33

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender (Post 598214)

well jambutty, i can see nothing personal in that post.:confused: n honestly doubt wether anyone can- only you.:(

jaysay

25-06-2008 16:52

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Well it seems that this thread is getting way out of hand, in the world we live in it takes all sorts to make it go round, I have always been a bloke who has said live and let live. Homosexuality is not a disease, it is how some one is born, they don't have a choise as some people would have you think, they are what they are through a circumstance of birth, in actual fact the gay people I have know, both male and female are very genuine people, and are probably more sincere than a lot of thier hetrosexual counterarts

accyman

25-06-2008 16:57

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

i wonder how many men would complain if it had been two sexy lesbians snogging and rolling around in heinz mayonaize :D

hell id watch em at it in a tub of heinz beans as long as it wasnt smell o'vision

accyman

25-06-2008 16:59

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 598258)

I AGREE but dont call a bloke mummy it just aint right

jambutty

25-06-2008 17:09

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender (Post 598226)

I do not overreact and describe everything as personal unless it gets personal.

So questioning a person’s sense of humour is not getting personal?

How people saw that ad is up to them. They are neither right nor wrong in forming an opinion about it.

But then what is prevalent is that the minority opinion is wrong and those with that opinion get castigated.

jambutty

25-06-2008 17:11

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 598245)

well jambutty, i can see nothing personal in that post.:confused: n honestly doubt wether anyone can- only you.:(

Irrelevant!

keetah992000

25-06-2008 17:14

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tin Monkey (Post 598161)

That was your first mistake.

erm... it wasnt a mistake - it was most definitely a purposeful action.

i just couldnt be bothered to read through all the petty squabling.

:D :D :D

Eric	25-06-2008 17:18

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 597680)

I wonder if the men who find homosexuality 'unnatural', would also have the same problem if it was a bit of girl on girl lip action?:rolleyes:

Actually they would have a different problem ... one manifested by a bulge in their pants:dancedog:

Don't find the ad offensive, or even funny; there again I think that ads serve only one good purpose: they give you time to grab a beer without missing the show.

Eric	25-06-2008 17:24

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

I just took another look at the ad. I can't see anything "gay" about it. It's as silly as the product is crappy .... but "gay"? If someone sees it as gay, or the men as gay lovers, I suspect that their perception is being distorted by their prejudice. Bottom line is: it's just another silly bloody ad.

jaysay

25-06-2008 17:25

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 598264)

I AGREE but dont call a bloke mummy it just aint right

Fair play accyman I agree there

WillowTheWhisp

25-06-2008 17:36

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Aaaaaargh! this thread is driving me potty.

The kids are not calling a man Mummy. They are calling their mother Mummy. SHE is a woman but in the ad is being portrayed as a NY deli counter server because that is how they are seeing/treating their mother - as little more than a sandwich producer. They could have portrayed her as a sandwich dispensing machine and the guy could have come back and kissed the machine goodbye.

It's not about homosexuality.

Eric	25-06-2008 17:48

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 598296)

Thanx hon, that's it exactly.:alright: This should put an end to the bs; but it probably won't.:rolleyes:

cashman

25-06-2008 17:56

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598272)

Irrelevant!

that just about sums up, much better n i ever could.:rolleyes:

grannyclaret

25-06-2008 18:14

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598193)

That was exactly how i saw it,,,,

grannyclaret

25-06-2008 18:19

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 598296)

??????????????????????????????????????????????/i cant follow that,, i cant see their mum at all

Gayle

25-06-2008 18:50

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

My way of thinking about it is this -

Everything about us is controlled by our genes - they're what make us man/woman, blonde/brunette, short/tall etc.

If we accept that our genes - in various combinations can create someone who is extremely fair haired and someone who is extremely dark haired and every shade in between. If we accept that our genes - in various combinations can create someone with bright blue eyes and someone with dark brown eyes and every shade in between. Isn't it feasible that our genes can create (naturally) every shade of sexuality that there is?

Just my way of looking at it.

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 19:03

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 598355)

Isn't it feasible that our genes can create (naturally) every shade of sexuality that there is?

Just my way of looking at it.

You are quite correct Gayle, right up until the end. We are the product of our genes, but differing sexualities (i.e. homosexuality) is an abnormality brought about by genetic malfunction. There's no arguing about it. Those are the facts. How people deal with those malfunctions is another matter all together, but I'm not getting involved in that.

I'd recommend reading Richard Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. It explains a lot.

I'm going to bow out now as people seem to be confusing the 2 or 3 different discussions in this thread. It's been fun. :)

emamum

25-06-2008 19:05

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 598355)

Just my way of looking at it.

here's my way of looking at it............:updown:

thomas.lee

25-06-2008 19:47

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598222)

Another person getting personal! It never ends does it? But then that is what happens when someone cannot counter what has been written and can only resort to personal and disparaging remarks.

First of all it is clearly a domestic scene and the “wife” could well be ready to go to work in a deli once the kids and “husband” are safely sent off to school and work. Hence the outfit. Taxi drivers leave home in their uniform as do nurses, bus drivers etc.

Doesn’t “hubby” say, “See you tonight love”? And afterwards “wifey” says, “Love you.”

That advert is normalising two gay men as parents of children and is totally out of order.

Incidentally have your kids never rushed in saying something like, “Can I have a ……..”? The “wife’s” response was what he was used to saying at his place of work. Nothing wrong in that.

Shame on you. As for your judgement on the advert, it is no way showing a normal couple. Its showing how they treat 'mum' as a NY Deli Counter guy!

For you to say that showing the normality of two gay men is out of order is very shallow, and homophobic. I hope one gay that you are in desperate need of help from either a homosexual doctor, firefighter etc.. Hopefully they'll turn their back on you, as you've blatently shown your ignorance towards homosexuality in todays society.

West Ender

25-06-2008 19:50

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

The Swiss psychologist, Jean Piaget, said that the "concrete" operational stage is the 3rd of 4 stages of development, where children begin to think logically but not abstractly. They see and can rationalise what is in front of them but not the abstract picture. Piaget says 2/3 of people remain concrete operational thinkers all their lives.

Is this why there are those here who see this advert simply as it is portrayed - 2 men in what appears to be a homosexual situation? Some see the subtler, more oblique message and some don't - they see the concrete picture. Neither is going to alter the view of the other.

I hope the above doesn't sound pretentious, if it does I'll get my coat.... :(
I did A level psychology 25 years ago, at night school, loved it and have been interested in the subject ever since. I'd like to do an O U degree course in it - maybe one of these days, who knows? ;)

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 19:52

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas.lee (Post 598382)

I hope one gay

That's had me laughing. Is that a Freudian slip by any chance? :D

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 19:55

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender (Post 598383)

Is this why there are those here who see this advert simply as it is portrayed - 2 men in what appears to be a homosexual situation? Some see the subtler, more oblique message and some don't - they see the concrete picture. Neither is going to alter the view of the other.

Apart from JB, who else on the thread reads the advert in that way? Or were you simply referring to JB alone?

As for Piaget.... well, it's all child's play isn't it? ;)

Gayle

25-06-2008 20:03

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598174)

I haven’t seen this advert but if it showed two men kissing on the lips then I would have been disgusted. It happened once in Dr Who too, when the doctor kissed Captain Jack.

Just for the record, before I wade into the rest of this - the Doctor is an alien and therefore, we don't actually know what sex he is. We don't know what reproductive organs he's been given. We just call him 'he' because he looks like a human male.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Homosexuality is against nature and just an unfortunate mix of genes.

It is a different mix of genes but everyone is different and no one should be called unfortunate. If the person's genes had given them three eyes or a missing arm then yes, unfortunate, but not if they're a healthy person who'd genes happen to make them prefer one sex or the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

If that was the case why is there so much genetic illness around. Surely people who carried the cystic fibrosis gene for example would be born homosexual so that they couldn't carry on that gene pool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

What is totally wrong is one partner in a lesbian relationship becoming pregnant by whatever means and for them to bring that child up or to adopt a child. The same goes for two gay men adopting a child even if one of them actually fathers that child.

Just imagine the bullying at school or on the street when it becomes known that little Johnny or Mary has two parents of the same sex. That kids life will become a misery. Kids can be vicious against kids from ‘normal’ families so what chance has little Johnny with two dads?

Children who are confident, bright and capable and who accept their parents for who they are do not get bullied or would not allow bullies to affect them. Bullies pick on a weakness, having lesbian or gay parents is not a weakness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

There is enough child sexual abuse going on from its natural parents as it is, so imagine the potential abuse of a young girl whose parents are lesbians? Or a young boy who has two male parents?

Are you saying that gay parents have children so that they can sexually abuse them or have I missed your point on this one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Parents will bring kids up in their own image. If two lesbians or two gay men had a child of their sex to bring up, wouldn’t they do the same? A child learns from its parents and even if it isn’t born with the wrong mix of genes the poor kid could learn to bend that way, because for it, it is the norm.

You've just enter the realms of utter tosh. Being gay is not 'learned' - if I've understood anything of my gay friends reactions to discovering they were gay it is more a force of nature, not something that conditioning can change so presumably it works the other way around. I once spent some time with a lovely lesbian couple and they had a daughter (actually one of theirs from a previous 'straight' relationship. The daughter was straight and I probably led her into some wicked ways by teaching her more about boys than her mothers probably wanted her to know.

West Ender

25-06-2008 20:04

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tin Monkey (Post 598385)

Apart from JB, who else on the thread reads the advert in that way? Or were you simply referring to JB alone?

As for Piaget.... well, it's all child's play isn't it? ;)

Take no notice, Jambutty, I didn't just mean you. :D

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 20:06

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender (Post 598390)

Take no notice, Jambutty, I didn't just mean you. :D

But I didn't see anyone else taking that reading of the advert. Never mind. :)

Gayle

25-06-2008 20:08

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

And sorry about this - but going back to the original point of the thread

IT IS NOT A GAY KISS - it is an interpretation of 'mum' and what mum does for the family.

thomas.lee

25-06-2008 20:09

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598174)

There is enough child sexual abuse going on from its natural parents as it is, so imagine the potential abuse of a young girl whose parents are lesbians? Or a young boy who has two male parents?

I feel the same Gayle, absolutely uncalled for. This member should be reported.

What sort of sick person suggests that lesbian/gay couples abuse young children?!

Tin Monkey

25-06-2008 20:11

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas.lee (Post 598397)

What sort of sick person suggests that lesbian/gay couples abuse young children?!

And who's to suggest that they don't? Children are more at risk from members of their own 'family' than they are from complete strangers.

Margaret Pilkington

25-06-2008 20:14

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

If you feel the post requires reporting then you have a report button..it is a little triangle with an exclamation mark in it......personally, I think it is another 'mountains and molehills'.
Oh and by the way Thomas......expletives and asterisked swear words are frowned on, as this is a family friendly forum. Just thought I would warn you in advance..in case someone has reported your posts.

thomas.lee

25-06-2008 20:20

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 598401)

In that case, I guess the whole thread should be removed. :rolleyes:

Margaret Pilkington

25-06-2008 20:22

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Well, them PM one of the Mods and they will discuss it with you seeing as it was you who instigated the thread.

steeljack

25-06-2008 20:23

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas.lee (Post 598397)

I feel the same Gayle, absolutely uncalled for. This member should be reported.

What sort of sick person suggests that lesbian/gay couples abuse young children?!

an ignorant bigot , he probably thinks that kids mother from Dewsbury should get a Mother of the Year award , because she is straight .

Eric	25-06-2008 20:33

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

I wonder if the ad was removed because people are too stupid to see the humor? I wonder if those who see a gay couple raising children would also take seriously Jonathan Swift's Modest Proposal.:confused:

It must be a slow summer for news if bs can attract so much attention:rolleyes:

garinda

25-06-2008 21:13

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas.lee (Post 598404)

In that case, I guess the whole thread should be removed. :rolleyes:

Ignorance can, and has been answered by reasoned, tolerant debate.

Margaret P is quite right.

Swearing and bad language is against forum rules.

People are entitled to their opinion, even if you disagree with it.

Personally I find intelligent argument, much more effective than churlish, foul language.

Margaret Pilkington

25-06-2008 21:17

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Yes Garinda, the kind of post I was referring to does nothing to further his cause, and once personal insults are thrown, then the argument is lost.

grannyclaret

25-06-2008 22:01

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

If HEINZ can cause all this stress then give us HELLMANS,and if you put a add on the tele,please make it so that us meer simple minded people can get the correct meaning,,,,We arnt all rocket scientists

jambutty

25-06-2008 22:09

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas.lee (Post 598397)

I feel the same Gayle, absolutely uncalled for. This member should be reported.

What sort of sick person suggests that lesbian/gay couples abuse young children?!

You could try that little red triangle in the bottom left hand corner of my post instead of waiting for someone else to do it.

The same sort of sick person that is in denial that some couples in all shades of sexual persuasion abuse not just their own kids but others too.

Less	25-06-2008 22:19

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 598475)

The same sort of sick person that is in denial that some couples in all shades of sexual persuasion abuse not just their own kids but others too.

Are you playing with half a deck today? Even for you that made very little sense.

There is a very big difference between a homosexual and a paedophile, to think they are the same thing shows you for what you really are a small minded bigot!

Yes I know your going to start whining all over again because you think I'm getting at you, but, good grief man? Where do you get your values from?

Having said all this your statement is just ambiguous enough for YOU to go into denial and say that I have got it all wrong and it's not what you meant.

jambutty

25-06-2008 22:37

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

I think that there should be a new forum rule. One that reads something like this:-
“If any member has an opinion on a topic that differs from the majority, that member must change their opinion to fall in line with the majority.”

I have given my view on that advert and explained why I formulated it. If people don’t like that view then it’s just too bad.

That is my last word in this thread.

cashman

25-06-2008 22:46

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

well i'm taking bets.:D

Eric	25-06-2008 22:52

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 598480)

well i'm taking bets.:D

You're on. I have a wooden nickle someplace:D

Eric	25-06-2008 22:59

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

It's a long way from a substandard ad for Heinz's substandard products to an argument that gays are paedophiles ... I think that the prejudice was there long before the ad. Having said that, I don't think people should jump all over JB, just 'cause he is expressing his opinion, however misguided I personally think it is. And unfortunately it is an opinion held by millions of people in your country ... and just about everyone in middle America and rural Canada.

cashman

25-06-2008 23:02

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 598484)

you tart eric, ya only posted JB, cos hes gone.:D;)

Eric	25-06-2008 23:33

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 598486)

you tart eric, ya only posted JB, cos hes gone.:D;)

What a silly bunt I am (my thanx to Monty Python) ... I keep forgetting the time differnce. I think that Accy should be on Eastern Standard Time:D

blazey

26-06-2008 04:02

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 598478)

Jambutty just said that some people deny that ALL types of people abuse their own children and other peoples children too. His comment made perfect sense and it was an intelligent comment. People from each type of sexuality have been seen to abuse children, whether they are their own or other peoples. His point makes perfect sense to me?

There is a petition to stop the withdrawal of this advert on the internet that has about 3000 signatures I think. It is BLATANT homophobia and it is disgusting. I don't really think anything more than that even needs to be said, this has gone too far already.

steeljack

26-06-2008 04:35

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey (Post 598520)

sorry to disagree , Jambutty said "There is enough child sexual abuse going on from its natural parents as it is, so imagine the potential abuse of a young girl whose parents are lesbians? Or a young boy who has two male parents?" which I read as saying Gay male or lesbian parents are more likely to abuse their children.......proven fact ...most men who mess with kids are 'straight ' males (usually white males by percentile demographics)

he also wrote .."People who are infertile are ‘built’ that way. If they cannot spawn offspring it is natures way of not allowing the ‘wrong build’ from being passed on." maybe a DNA test should be required before couples are allowed to mate , think there is a de-bunked science called Eugenics which covers this (as well as proscribing all religions which allow first cousins to marry)

more from same source " It is the wrong mix of good genes that can produce an offspring that is infertile or gay or blind or whatever." ever heard of Doctor Mengale.

As I have said before in previous posts , the Gay /lesbian couples I know who are raising children (either natural or adopted) are doing a damn fine job , and in many cases better than some the straight/hetrosexual families I know ;) ;)

blazey

26-06-2008 04:40

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

I'm just commenting on less' comment on JB's specific post, not that one that you have dissected for me. Thanks for the comprehension lesson though, but I wasn't commenting on that post anyway.

Neil	26-06-2008 08:38

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by emamum23 (Post 597803)

but... i suppose masturbation is unnatural aswell........

Why? If God did not want you too He would have made your arms shorter.

jaysay

26-06-2008 09:17

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Just a little wander here, but there's a film on tomorrow morning 2.5am on channel 4 that may just put the cat among the pigeons on this thread, the films called My Mother Frank:rolleyes:

Loz	26-06-2008 10:55

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Well all i can say is that i'm sure there are far more important topics to get worked up about than an advert!
Personally i thought it was a clever ad and in no way offensive.
I can't understand how it turned into a 13 page thread!?
I also can't believe some of the rubbish i've read especially Jambutty.
In this day and age it would be nice if people weren't so narrowminded.
My Fiances Mum is in a relationship with a woman and they jokingly and affectionately call her Dad,I know that wasn't the point of the ad but i thought i would mention it anyway.
His mum has Five sons and they have all had a great upbringing for the most part by her girlfriend so to suggest that kids will be affected if they are brought up by a same sex couple is a load of tosh to me.

jaysay

26-06-2008 11:03

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 598614)

Well you've got to admit Loz, its got people talking on here ain't it, wether some of it is rubbish or not, its peoples oponions, and thats what makes the world go round, if we all thought the same what a boring life it would be, just imagin me always agreeing with Graham Jones, how boring would that be:rolleyes::D

Loz	26-06-2008 12:42

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 598617)

Fair point!
I wasn't trying to suggest that we all have the same opinions its just that some of them were very tasteless IMO.

jaysay

26-06-2008 16:20

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 598648)

Fair point!
I wasn't trying to suggest that we all have the same opinions its just that some of them were very tasteless IMO.

Thats what makes the world go round Loz especially the very tasteless ones:D

grannyclaret

27-06-2008 14:53

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

i am not homaphobic, i just think its a crap advert,,,the sutalty went over my head:confused::confused:

jaysay

27-06-2008 15:57

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by grannyclaret (Post 599205)

i am not homaphobic, i just think its a crap advert,,,the sutalty went over my head:confused::confused:

Well I think thats the best answer of the whole thread GC:D

accyman

27-06-2008 16:46

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 598552)

Why? If God did not want you too He would have made your arms shorter.

one american preecher once said that in the bible it says it is better for your seed to fall in the belly of a whore than on the floor..

seems fair enough to me :D

lindsay ormerod

27-06-2008 19:37

Re: Heinz to withdraw 'Gay Kiss' advert!

Right, I have just watched the advert and cannot believe so many people have got worked up about it !:confused:
The tag line for the ad mentions "New York Deli" ; the bloke in the kitchen making the sarnies is obviously representing the New York Deli, the English family collecting their lunches are like his customers; the kiss at the end is humourous throw away,what on earth is everyone getting so het up about?
New Yorkers traditionally pass the time of day in their delis, that's all that happens.
Some folk on here really, really need to get a life ( sweet cheeks !!):rolleyes:

(btw if you get up in the morning and make packed lunches it does sometimes feel like a production line in a deli !)

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