Accrington Web - Detention without charge poll

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- General Chat (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/)

- - Detention without charge poll (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/detention-without-charge-poll-41085.html)

Loz	14-07-2008 22:57

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 606775)

Perhaps he's not that passionate about people's freedom after all.:rolleyes:

Perhaps it was just one big ego trip....at the tax payer's expense.

Yeah how could he make such a fuss as to resign over the 42 day ruling then openly support the death penalty?
I agree wholeheartedly about the waste of taxpayers money too.

andrewb

14-07-2008 22:57

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 606773)

Wonder what your views are on the death penalty andrew?
Do you support davies on this too?
How stupid to be against an extra 12 days detention for terroists but support hangings!
At least if innocent people are locked up they can get on with their lives afterwards.
Theres no going back if you kill an innocent person.

No I don't agree with the death penalty.

Davis has made it perfectly clear that he would not pursue this in parliament and has never made a speech on it. All he has done is answer when the question is asked, to which he says under extreme circumstance where there is no doubt at all, he supports the death penalty.

I can see the difference though, he is defending freedoms of innocent people, not guilty people.

Loz	14-07-2008 23:00

Re: Detention without charge poll

How can you be 100% sure somebody is guilty though?
It is possible that somebody could be sentenced to death and be innocent.
There is no going back then.

andrewb

14-07-2008 23:03

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 606787)

How can you be 100% sure somebody is guilty though?
It is possible that somebody could be sentenced to death and be innocent.
There is no going back then.

That's why I don't support it.

Loz	14-07-2008 23:06

Re: Detention without charge poll

Yeah but you support somebody who does and have kicked up such a fuss about supporting him over the 42 day detention ruling.
Can't you see the hypocrisy?

andrewb

14-07-2008 23:09

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 606798)

Yeah but you support somebody who does and have kicked up such a fuss about supporting him over the 42 day detention ruling.
Can't you see the hypocrisy?

Davis isn't pushing it through parliament. It is simply his view on guilty murderers, its quite clear its not practical to implement the death penalty for reasons you suggested.

Loz	14-07-2008 23:11

Re: Detention without charge poll

Where have i said to bring back the death penalty?
I am totally against it like you.

andrewb

14-07-2008 23:13

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 606807)

Where have i said to bring back the death penalty?
I am totally against it like you.

I never said anyone was? I said it was Davids view that guilty should be put to death... but its not practical because as you said you could be killing innocent people?

BERNADETTE

14-07-2008 23:14

Re: Detention without charge poll

With DNA as it is today do you not think that the death penalty is an option??

andrewb

14-07-2008 23:15

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 606809)

With DNA as it is today do you not think that the death penalty is an option??

No.

Loz	14-07-2008 23:16

Re: Detention without charge poll

Sorry i will hold my hand up over my last post.
Read it wrong!:o

Mancie

14-07-2008 23:19

Re: Detention without charge poll

I hate the Tories and don't belive them when they say they will repeal the 42 days..but it bothers me that this law could spread to any suspects being held for any more minor crimes without charge for long periods

accyman

14-07-2008 23:32

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 606814)

then that would rightfully be somthing to be concerned about if it was to happen but as it stands its only for terrorist suspects which is fine with me , im sure public opinion would shift rather rapidly if teh law spread to holding anyone indefinatly for other crimes

jaysay

15-07-2008 09:22

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 606820)

The trouble is AM that you can be arrested for spitting in the street and be detained under he terrorism act if the powers that be see fit

cashman

15-07-2008 11:44

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 606934)

The trouble is AM that you can be arrested for spitting in the street and be detained under he terrorism act if the powers that be see fit

thats taking things to the extreme, have ya got n example of this.:rolleyes:

jambutty

15-07-2008 11:53

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 606773)

At least if innocent people are locked up they can get on with their lives afterwards.

Would that be the life where they have lost their job, got behind with the mortgage or rent and the energy companies breathing down their neck for payment?

Loz	15-07-2008 11:58

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 607033)

Would that be the life where they have lost their job, got behind with the mortgage or rent and the energy companies breathing down their neck for payment?

I'm not saying it wouldn't affect your life in a big way but at least you would have life!
You can rebuild your life slowly but surely if you are wrongfully arrested but not if you are dead!

cashman

15-07-2008 12:07

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 607033)

Would that be the life where they have lost their job, got behind with the mortgage or rent and the energy companies breathing down their neck for payment?

to the best of my knowledge most of these people do not have mortgages, they tend to buy property in other ways.:confused: unless i am badly misinformed.

jambutty

15-07-2008 12:14

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 607030)

thats taking things to the extreme, have ya got n example of this.:rolleyes:

The point being made is that the authorities have taken unto themselves powers that could be used not just for suspect terrorists.

Local authorities now have the power to monitor and listen to your phone calls and read your emails and maybe even read your posts on this forum. You will never know if they are doing so until the day that you are arrested for something.

The Big Brother scenario draws ever closer.

Did you know that local authorities are selling extracts from the Electoral Register to businesses?

A couple of years or so ago you could access the Electoral Register from the Hyndburn/ Blackburn web sites. You can’t today, although you can have a look at the Town Hall office that holds the records.

Why is that do you suppose? It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that the Electoral Register is being sold and to have it on the Internet means that no one would want to pay when it was free to view on the Internet.

The government, to their rare credit, is trying to make local authorities stop this practice.

jambutty

15-07-2008 12:22

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz (Post 607036)

I'm not saying it wouldn't affect your life in a big way but at least you would have life!
You can rebuild your life slowly but surely if you are wrongfully arrested but not if you are dead!

So it’s OK to destroy a person’s life on a suspicion?

You would have a different view if it happened to you.

cashman

15-07-2008 12:23

Re: Detention without charge poll

the point was also made earlier, that if the powers were to be abused in that way a public backlash would soon follow. i am aware they are selling extracts from the register,which is annoying to say the least, but does not concern me nowhere near as much as a safer society for me kids n grandchild to grow up in.

jambutty

15-07-2008 15:17

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 607058)

That’s the problem, there would only be talk and no real backlash.

In the meantime we slither into a Police State.

Loz	15-07-2008 15:45

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 607057)

So it’s OK to destroy a person’s life on a suspicion?

You would have a different view if it happened to you.

I'm not saying its right but like i said you could rebuild your life.
It wouldn't be destroyed forever.
All i am saying is that the consequences are a lot more dire if someone was executed wrongly.
That would destroy lives.

cashman

15-07-2008 16:12

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 607150)

That’s the problem, there would only be talk and no real backlash.

In the meantime we slither into a Police State.

thats your assumption, aint mine, whilst i have not much faith in any of the parties, i think even M.P.s would get off the fence with that one.

jaysay

15-07-2008 16:26

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 606934)

The trouble is AM that you can be arrested for spitting in the street and be detained under he terrorism act if the powers that be see fit

Come on cashy thee and me have been on his planet long enough to know that the law can fit you up with anything if it fits their purpose, spitting was just a throw away example

Gayle

15-07-2008 17:09

Re: Detention without charge poll

I would like to see information about these innocent people that are being detained. Surely if there is a statistic there should be a case study to go along side it?

andrewb

15-07-2008 18:35

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 607202)

I would like to see information about these innocent people that are being detained. Surely if there is a statistic there should be a case study to go along side it?

What do you want to know?

Tealeaf

15-07-2008 18:49

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 607150)

In the meantime we slither into a Police State.

I'd rather have a police state than a sharia state (which is obviously what Jambutty and a few others on here would prefer).

andrewb

15-07-2008 18:54

Re: Detention without charge poll

I didn't think the Archbishop of Canterbury posted here. :p

den the menace

15-07-2008 19:19

Re: Detention without charge poll

didnt they use the terrorist act to eject an 80 yrs old geezer out of the labour party conference a couple of years ago?
we have a morally bankrupt government, why should we believe anything they say?
how about detaining a few MPs for a few months? see how they like it:D:D:D

Tealeaf

15-07-2008 19:23

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by den the menace (Post 607300)

how about detaining a few MPs for a few months? see how they like it:D:D:D

They would not be able to tell as they would not know the difference between lying around doing nowt in a prison cell and lazying around doing nowt in their House of Commons office. That goes for 'em all, irrespective of party.

Gayle

15-07-2008 20:41

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 607272)

What do you want to know?

I want to know who these innocent people are? Are they just random people picked up off the street or have they been under surveillance or have they done something that would indicate that they were terrorists?

Boeing Guy

17-07-2008 12:34

Re: Detention without charge poll

Not sure where I stand on this issue, I have no time for our government, however I also have very little time for Cameron, watch out Andrew, I have always voted Blue before, but now not so sure.

This whole detention without trial concerns me, the pilot part of me, the one that worries about being blown up, hijacked or killed trying to stop some nutter flying in to the Nat west tower says lock em up for ever. However the rational side of me realises that the true threat, will never ever show up on radar, until its too late.
So what have you achived, you alienate a group of people in our society and make them moe inclined to attack us. Not reeally 'Hearts and minds' now is it?

jaysay

17-07-2008 17:04

Re: Detention without charge poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 608065)

I can agree with a lot of what our say BG, but the reason I was against this 42 day issue is that we have not had to release anybody without charge under the 28 day rule so why change it. And we also have to realise that the way our judiciary work, they let terror suspects out on the streets under the human rights act anyway, its only a few weeks ago that Bin ladens man in europe was let out on 24 hours curfew with leg monitor and then was seen and photographed walking down a London Street doing a bit of shopping, as you do

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