Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Surprised no one has mentioned this little news item , seemingly Margart Thatcher is to be given a state Funeral when she pops her clogs , the last one being Churchill in 1965

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-funeral.html

So the question is how do accy web users feel about it ? , would it be money well spent ? maybe the poll results could supply the local MP with an indication of local feeling about how the Govt. spends taxpayer money :eek:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I read this too.

The first civilian one since Churchill.

Though as she's still alive, I do think they've spoilt her suprise now.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

LOL at the options on your poll, Steeljack. :D

I expect lots of strong opinions on this one.

I myself haven't got a problem with Margaret Thatcher having a state funeral.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

just as an add-in to the original post , in line with the true principles of democracy the voting in this poll is anonymous :D ;)

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I do not like Margaret Thatcher, I never have, either as a politician or as a person. I do, however, feel a bit sorry for her over this. It can't be very nice when people start discussing your funeral, right in your face, which seems to imply you're on your last legs.

Do I think she should have a state funeral. Why should she? Not everyone agreed with Churchill's peacetime politics but most regarded him as a great war leader. He was a figure-head in the darkest days of WW2 and it was fitting that he should be honoured that way. Thatcher does not even begin to compare.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

burn her as a witch but televise it as though it was a state funeral and provide everyone with free popcorn

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

At teh time I didn't agree with her policies but I admire teh fact that she stood up for this country and her beliefs rather than turning turtle at the first sign of trouble that teh Labour gov have done ever since.

yep, give teh old girl a send off.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I would come over for this ... I'll bring the wieners and the marshmallows:dancedog:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Problem is, when we shuffle off this mortal thingy, will we arrive in Hell to find it privatised:rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I have no problem with her receiving a state funeral. I just hope those who disagree with her are respectful.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Should every Prime Minister get a state funeral? Or is it only after you've done 10 years service or something - in which case should Tony Blair get one?

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Respect her for making the rich richer and the poor poorer?

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

If the rule is that you have to have given 10 year's service then yes.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

a state funeral for a woman who sank a ship that was immobalised and had surrendered if i am correct

tried for war crimes seems to be more appriopiate which is somthing else she has in common with tony blair

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Yes he should and the sooner the better for leaving us with this idiot in charge.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I don't think its to do with 10 years service.
Churchill was in office for 9 years in total.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I think what Andrewb was saying was that he hopes no-one is disrespectful at the funeral.

No-one should be disrespectful or cause trouble at a funeral.

If you don't like someone and don't respect them then you should stay away from their funeral not go and cause trouble. :(

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

On what grounds then, would she get a state funeral?

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

i'll give the bitch the same respect she gave the miners.:mad: churchill tory or not was a differant matter, as west ender says,was a great war time leader, is not fitting fer other PMs in my book,no matter which party they hail from.:(

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

LOL!:D
Karma on the way for making me laugh!

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

the miners wont be seen causing trouble

they will tunnel from underneath and steal the coffin then dance on it for a while and put it back before anyone notices a thing

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I have no idea i'm afraid.
Maybe andrewb can enlighten us?

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I have a hunch that Margaret Thatcher's coffin will be under very tight security. ;)

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I wasn't suggesting people be disrespectful at her funeral.
I just don't respect her at all.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I don't think there will be any 'dis-respect ' shown , maybe one or two street parties in various part of the country , which probably be described in the Tory press as 'funeral teas' where the celebrants were overcome with grief :eek: :eek:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I've done a bit of googling and it seems that state funerals are normally reserved for Sovereigns.

However, a few others have had them. Charles Darwin was one and the most recent was Winston Churchill in 1965.

It seems that permission has to be given from the monarch.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

The article gives us lots of detail about protocol and planning, but precious little about why she deserves the funeral .... she won three elections, and won the Falklands War .... not really all that much is it .... it's like saying that Jean Chretien, a former Canadian PM, deserves a state funeral because he never lost an election, and he kept us out of Iraq .... sure she was a major figure in World Politics, but is that what state funerals are supposed to recognize? Nelson I can understand, Wellington too, not so sure about Palmerston (although he did give the world gunboat diplomacy), Gladstone, maybe, and Churchill I can understand.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Just in case she gets the lid open and climbs back out:confused:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

No doubt the funeral will be well attended .... give the people what they want and they will turn out in droves:theband:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

No, to stop the nutters getting to her like they did with Eva Peron in Argentina. :(

Poor old Eva had to be buried about 200 ft down because the nutters kept trying to dig her up.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

now eric she did sink the "Belgrano" a ship out of territorial waters n sailing in the opposite direction.:rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Later revealed that it was turning around to come back in and shoot. Thankfully she used her judgment and saved our boys.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

you believe that, i believe the documentary i watched years after.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I remember in 1958 in the Brittania Club in Singapore which is opposite the Raffles Hotel, some American GI's made a reference to our Sovereign Lady, The Queen, To use their words would be a 'Good lay'.
That was an insult to our Queen and the servicemen who were serving in the theatre at the time.
If an American comments on the ways that the ordinary Brit spends his life or selects his politics, it goes against the grain and we will retaliate.
I have never seen Americans back out of a situation so fast when the British Servicemen threw each and everyone of the GI'S in the swimming pool with a warning that if they came out of the drink with the same opinion, god help them.
Our Politics are different from our 'Friends' from over the pond and I would say to them: Kiss my Arse Uncle Sam.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

As far as I remember, the Belgrano was a little long in the tooth wasn't she ... WWll vintage ... the phrase "sitting duck" comes to mind;)

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

yep but no doubt cyfr will bull it up to have been a " Top Destroyer":rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I know there was respect shown for Churchill even though many people did not like him as PM after the war.... but for Thatcher?.. the only ones showing respect will be the right wing Tory brigade.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Personally I don't think she should recieve a State Funeral.

That honour should go to the last veteran of World War I, and then only if he wants it.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

what a load of twaddle ,can a tory actualy do wrong or are you prepared to say anything no matter how stupid to defend one

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

also the jam butty estate 10 bob millionaires.:rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I hope not many show up to line the streets, just to show how wrong they are to do this.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Belgrano was given orders to attack our boys, they invaded our islands, our people, they were the foreign aggressors.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

dream on fruitcake.:rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

With a little change in the spelling, we say the same thing to our neighbours all the time .... we did it when GW asked us to become involved in Iraq .... But I seem to remember that Maggie had her head so far up Ronny Raygun's ass that they both ate from the same plate ... I don't think that this is a good reason for a State Funeral, but, no doubt it will be talked about as "establishing closer ties with the great democracy across the Atlantic".:rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Sorry please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Well we should have taken all the crew..banged em up for 24hours then let them go for lack of evidence! (appols..crossed thread.. easy done)

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

The Belgrano was not immobilised nor did she surrender.

It was steaming away from the Falklands and there is some dispute whether she was inside or outside the exclusion zone.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

As I recall, a similar thing happened to Oliver Cromwell:)

maybe she should be burried face down, just in case she decides to dig her way out.:D

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I think Maggie should have a state funeral. Regardless of if you agree with her policies (and personally I disagree with most of them) she contributed a lot to this country and set out to do what she thought she had to do. She didn't flinch when the going got tough and all around her were arguing with her. She set a very positive role model for other females to follow.
I also think Blair should get a state funeral. however I would argue that both funerals should be paid for not out of our British public purse but by the Americans as they seemed to have benefited more from the reign of these two premiers.
On a more serious note I do not think anyone should be dis respectful at any funeral, whatever the circumstances

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I can't imagine many people would bother.

Still it'll be nice for the tourists to see the pretty horses.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Andrew, I think you are defending your views from commited Star or Mirror readers. This is cover up for the balls that the Labour Government are making in our country at the moment. I look at the smile of Hazel Blears and the 'Ive lost it gaze of Gordon Brown' I think we can look forward to a new lease of life under a new Tory Government in the very near future.
Take all the flack you have to, but stand by what you believe in and smile if anyone offends you. Thats politics.;)

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

And perhaps those found guilty of knife crimes could perform their community service by following the horses, wielding shovels:rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Hey .... looks like those supporting the burning are in the lead .... maybe I'll spring for a couple of 24s of beer to wash down the dogs:theband:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Actually 6 (yes)
add 3 (No)

equals 9

Which is 2 more than those supporting the burning












:alright:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Perhaps we should have a thread suggesting suitable music.:D

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

The British imposed exclusion zone – not territorial waters.

And there is some unresolved dispute whether the Belgrano was inside or outside this exclusion zone. The only certainty is that the ship was steaming away from the Falklands.

And andrewb if the ship was steaming away at the time she was torpedoed she could not have been turning round. There has been some alleged documentary evidence that the Belgrano was going away to come back another day but that is all conjecture.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

The Queen is dead, boys, and it's so lonely on a limb..

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

There is one from the Wizard of Oz that comes to mind:alright:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I was under the impression that this was proved by previously unseen documents a year or two ago. That the Belgrano was under orders to attack, and that she was turning around to come back.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

jambutty is spot on, i said that earlier, but cyfr does not wish to here that.:rolleyes:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Do they only sell the daily mail in spain?... your just trying to cause conflict were there is none ..my son

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Hey ... this is a democratic forum, and with democracy these days you don't need a majority of the popular vote to win;) ... a plurality is good enough.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

'Sell' The Daily Mail? Surely they have to give it away - even in Spain?

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

She was ordered to attack us. Your gonna have to do better that her facing the other way sorry!

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I liked Maggie .. could understand what she had to say put in a straightforward manner. What Prime Minister would not have gone in to defend the Falklands .. proud we did that for our people out there, even though caused some loss of life, to me was a just cause, unlike where are troops are being sent now.

As for a state funeral, not sure really .. maybe not, would set some sort of prerogative. Wouldn't vote on this poll anyway .. don't like the way the questions are put. Which Prime Minister does not divide a country anyway ?

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I don't care where the ship was we were at war with them. I still think we should have been bombing military bases in Argentina. Might have well made use of those Polaris missiles before we ditched them.

No point in having a nuclear deterant in someone comes along and still attacks soveriegn soil.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

When a six inch shell comes whizzing at you it matters not that it was fired from an old gun. She was perfectly capable of doing a lot of damage to our fleet had she got closer. As it is the point became academic because we got clobbered with Exocet missiles supplied by our friends on the other side of the channel – the French.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano#General_history

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

You have missed the point totally.
One section cannot be in the lead if the sum total of other sections is higher than the first stated. Simple, elementary statistics
To analyse data one must look beyond the obvious

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

You are much better to answer this than me:

If we were in range to attack the Belgrano does this mean it was in range to attack us? Could it have attacked whilst sailing away, if not, how long would it take to turn around into a position it could attack from, and how long would our ship have had to react to that?

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I voted NO!

She did do some good stuff but her bad stuff outweighed the good.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I agree that she what she did was certainly not all for the good, but she didnt sit on her backsided, she did something and everything she did was done with conviction and, in her mind, for the greater good.
Her politics were motivated by pure conviction, not like so many oof todays politician who dont seem to have a belief in their whole body

Footnote: I have just thought of something Maggie did and for which I shall be eternally grateful to her - she abolished free school milk, such a relief to an 8 year old

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

from what i remember the belgranos weapons were not good enough to hit our ship at the distance it was away but our weapons were better and could cover the distance so we sank a retreating ship

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

From what I've seen printed , and seen on docu's the Belgrano was ill equiped with firepower..but the captian of the British sub asked for permission to attack..this was war..most PM's would have given permission to attack..to say "Maggie" saved our boys is not real.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

The obvious is what you are missing .... if one section has 7 and and another has 6 the one with 7 is ahead by one .... if my arithmetic is up to subtracting six from seven ... what the third option has is irrelevant, as long as it is less than seven ... statistics has nothing to do with it .... as we all know, most people use stats in the same way a drunk uses a lamp post, more for support than illumination:D

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

From the link from you posted

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

the point being the ship was outside the exclusion zone sailing away, on yer basis neil, it would have been just fine fer the krauts to sink our ships,bringing our lads back from the "Normandy Beaches"? after all its war. everyone knows bad crap happens in war, don't make it right though.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

The Belgrano was sunk outside the 200-nautical-mile (370 km) total exclusion zone around the Falklands. However, exclusion zones are historically declared for the benefit of neutral vessels; during war, under international law, the heading and location of a belligerent naval vessel has no bearing on its status. In addition, the captain of the Belgrano, Hector Bonzo, has testified that the attack was legitimate[7] (as did the Argentine government in 1994

Though the ship was heading away from the Falkland Islands, it had been moving towards the task force all the previous day, and had only turned around because an air attack on the task force was cancelled due to lack of wind to launch planes from the aircraft carrier operating to the north of the Falklands. Belgrano had in fact been ordered back towards the coast to wait for more favourable conditions for an attack. Her captain, Hector Bonzo, said "We were heading towards the mainland but not going to the mainland; we were going to a position to await further orders".

"I think it could only be in Britain that a prime minister was accused of sinking an enemy ship that was a danger to our navy, when my main motive was to protect the boys in our navy".

In 1994 the Argentine government conceded that the sinking of the Belgrano was "a legal act of war".

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Though the ship was outside of the 200-mile (320 km) exclusion zone, both sides understood that this was no longer the limit of British action — on 23 April a message was passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government, it read:

In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty's Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection Her Majesty's Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response. All Argentine aircraft, including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces, will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.

Interviews conducted by Martin Middlebrook for his book, The Fight For The Malvinas, indicated that Argentine Naval officers understood the intent of the message was to indicate that any ships operating near the exclusion zone could be attacked. Argentine Rear-Admiral Allara who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of said, "After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano".

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

There are absolutely no grounds upon which Thatcher deserves a state funeral.
Even those who don't hate her guts can't argue against that.

However I say burn the witch. Alive if possible.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Mani..stand on the door and tell that load to your customers ..

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

see not all students are numbnuts.:D;)

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Very harsh words!!!

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

stop pickin on shaker, hes learning.:D;)

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Not very well IMO:(

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Lots of people forget that when Thatcher took over has Prime Minister in 1979 this country was near bankrupt, it wasn't me that called this country "The Sick Man of Europe" its was all the national press at the time. The IMF had told Silly Billy to go home and put his own house in order and wouldn't lend the counry another bean, the fact is the the the Labour Government from 1974/79 were a disaster, lurching from one crisis to another, much the same as todays lot. To me Thatcher deserves that state funeral just for turning his country round from being a laughing stock to a world power again.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I presume it's all been arranged so that Mark Thatcher doesn't get lost following the coffin :D

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Na dave, but they may have to let him out of an African Jail to attend:D

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Following your own convictions regardless of whether they are right or wrong is not an attribute that I can warm to. Blair did it and so is Brown now.

I appreciate that many kids do not like milk but equally many do. Milk, as so many mothers will tell you, is full of calcium that is essential to help build strong teeth and bones. I accept that there are other sources of calcium but those sources too were abhorrent to many kids. So by abolishing free school milk she was denying the kids a source of calcium that they may not have got at home.

Was it compulsory to drink milk at school?

It wasn’t during my time at school but then that was well before the Maggie era. Those of us who liked milk were glad of the extra that the “none milk likers” didn’t drink.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I couldn’t see Blair or Brown doing what Maggie did. In any case they would have had to get permission from the states first.

Maggie does have one thing going for her though. She left Ted Heath with egg on his face but I guess he got the last laugh when she was dumped.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

All I can say is that I am glad that someone with your attitude was not PM at that time.

Fortunately we couldn’t have launched a nuke even if we wanted to. The Americans wouldn’t have allowed it.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I never stated that the Belgrano was heading for home, just leaving the exclusion zone.

Of course officials, ministers and Captain Bonzo would say that he was manoeuvring to launch an attack but there is no independent evidence to support this.

If the navy personnel were trained as well as the army then I wouldn’t blame him for turning tail.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

It's just my opinion. I'm not going to perfume my words for the sake of anyone really. If you don't like my opinions then don't read them in future, it won't mither me.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Veering wildly from the thread, although with a hint of adherance via the "school milk snatcher" vein, it was compulsory at my school. I only liked milk icy cold but my poor, misguided teachers thought it was kind to put the crates of milk next to the radiators on cold days.

The memory of it still makes me nauseous. Bleeeaaaaaaaagh! :blink8:

:D

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

I used to get stuck with one that the sparrows had been at .... half the bloody cream gone:mad:

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

maggie? state funeral? never,
i can just remember churchills in 1965, now HE DID deserve one. the only thing i can say about mags is we all new where we stood with her, whereas blair was hard to judge, i think he would have felt more at home in the tory party. i doubt if there are more than a couple of dozen socialists in the commons right now.
the labour party was hijacked by men in suits, you only have to look at our MP, hes a joke. never had a proper job in his life and if i were him id be getting worried cos i can see him losing his seat.
just think, YOU could be stood behind him in the job centre, now that would be fun.
over to you Greg:D:D:D

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

State funeral? Errrm, no, stick her in a bin bag and sling her in the thames! Being as that wasnt an option, burn the witch! What she did to the miners etc was despicable, they (scargill in particular) needed bringing down a peg, but not ruining completely, made homeless and jobless, and beaten by the police into the bargain, and I aint even going to start on the sell everything policies.

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

well said derekgas, though many who lived through the strike, where either too dumb,or too selfish to even know or care.:( and the cheeky git asks fer respect fer the cow.:(

Re: Thatcher to get State funeral
 

Is she dead yet?:confused: