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jambutty 08-10-2008 12:02
Banks!
 
For years in times aplenty the shareholders have enjoyed dividends beyond their wildest dreams and the fat cat bosses scooped huge bonuses.

Now when the banks are going through severe times, times of their own making I might add, shouldn’t the shareholders and fat cats prop them up and not we tax payers?

Only this morning I received a letter from Barclays (I have never had an account with Barclays) offering me an unsecured loan of up to £10,000 and of course a credit card.

Has Barclays learned nothing?

WillowTheWhisp 08-10-2008 12:11
Re: Banks!
 
I don't think it's as simple as that. This isn't just a UK problem. It's international and it's when banks DON'T loan money that we have problems. As long as they lend to people who can afford to pay it back they shouldn't have problems.

Boeing Guy 08-10-2008 12:19
Re: Banks!
 
Here's an idea, why doesn't the government guarantee all deposits and current account holders money. Then refuse to help the banks out with public money. If the bank goes under then all debts go with it, so all those sub-prime loans die with the banks. :D

WillowTheWhisp 08-10-2008 12:25
Re: Banks!
 
That wouldn't work because it would deter banks from loaning money and we need banks to start having the confidence to loan again.

jambutty 08-10-2008 12:38
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 639343)
I don't think it's as simple as that. This isn't just a UK problem. It's international and it's when banks DON'T loan money that we have problems. As long as they lend to people who can afford to pay it back they shouldn't have problems.
I agree that the banking situation isn’t just a UK problem but what happens in Iceland, the Far East etc doesn’t directly affect the UK citizens unless any of them have an account in those foreign banks. Although foreign banks have shareholders and fat cat bosses too.

Greed was the banking downfall. They made loans willy nilly without having the assets to cover them. So they borrowed from each other. Now how stupid is that?

Lending money means making a profit on the loan. The more you lend the more profit you will make, but only if the loans are repaid. It all looked nice in the ‘books’ but the reality is that figures in a ‘book’ are meaningless and circumstances have eventually caught up with them and we are in the current mess that is not of the people’s making.

One other outcome of this banking debacle is that the European Union has been shown to be nothing of the sort, as individual countries take steps to underwrite their own citizens’ accounts in their own banks.

There is surely a good case for getting out of the EU.

jambutty 08-10-2008 12:40
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 639346)
Here's an idea, why doesn't the government guarantee all deposits and current account holders money. Then refuse to help the banks out with public money. If the bank goes under then all debts go with it, so all those sub-prime loans die with the banks. :D
Great idea. It’s got my vote.

jambutty 08-10-2008 12:41
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 639348)
That wouldn't work because it would deter banks from loaning money and we need banks to start having the confidence to loan again.
We need banks to loan money that they have.

SPUGGIE J 08-10-2008 13:24
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 639354)
We need banks to loan money that they have.

True but they have to lend our money wether its in accounts or Darlings bail out. Sadly though they will never learn and will go cap in hands to the govenment of the day. 1929-1935 should have served as a warning but no arrogance at the highest level scuppered it.:mad:

Morecambe Ex Pat 08-10-2008 13:48
Re: Banks!
 
Regarding the banks which have been nationalised.
Will they have to repay the rescue capitol before they are sold back to the private sector or will they be sold back to the fat cats, at a knock down price 'to save the tax payer money'?

MargaretR 08-10-2008 13:54
Re: Banks!
 
If you are wondering where the money went watch this
BBC iPlayer - Super Rich: The Greed Game

WillowTheWhisp 08-10-2008 14:13
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 639352)
I agree that the banking situation isn’t just a UK problem but what happens in Iceland, the Far East etc doesn’t directly affect the UK citizens unless any of them have an account in those foreign banks. Although foreign banks have shareholders and fat cat bosses too.

But it does, and not only the people with the foreign bank accounts. Banks trade with each other and that is how the whole thing snowballs. Economics is a very funny subject. How do you think banks make the money they pay us in interest on our deposit and savings accounts?

jambutty 08-10-2008 15:31
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 639382)
But it does, and not only the people with the foreign bank accounts. Banks trade with each other and that is how the whole thing snowballs. Economics is a very funny subject. How do you think banks make the money they pay us in interest on our deposit and savings accounts?
Having just watched “The Greed Game” the whole way through (thanks for the link MargaretR) I am appalled at the ease some individuals have made a fortune way beyond the realms of avarice and safe in the knowledge that if their dealings go wrong, they don’t pick up the tab.

Would the interest that they charge us for loans and gambling on the stock exchange be a clue?

Bonnyboy 08-10-2008 21:27
Re: Banks!
 
I see 20 or more of our Councils have cash stashed in Icelandic bank accounts, pity the link doesn’t list them - Councils’ Iceland deposit fears

Eric 08-10-2008 21:53
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 639343)
I don't think it's as simple as that. This isn't just a UK problem. It's international and it's when banks DON'T loan money that we have problems. As long as they lend to people who can afford to pay it back they shouldn't have problems.
True indeed. Canada has so far done well in this recession. The main reason is that Canada's banks are governed by a strong Bank Act. And, in general, banks here have been very conservative with loans and mortgages. Banks usually require a 10% deposit before lending money to buy a house. It is the ninja loans that got the banks in trouble.

Problem for our economy is that our biggest trading partner is the US:(

Royboy39 08-10-2008 22:12
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 639348)
That wouldn't work because it would deter banks from loaning money and we need banks to start having the confidence to loan again.
Banks have had the upper hand for a long time, you as a small businessman approached the bank for a loan to promote a new idea or product, they would ask you to sign your house over as colateral....but if you wanted a morgage and had no money to cover your debt they would sell your house from under your feet.
The mortgage market has gone tits up and houses are being sold for peanuts.
I once had a bank manager (Now extinct) say to me 'If you can prove to me that you don't need the money, I will lend it to you'
The, I am not allowed to say ' The stuff has hit the fan....but it has.

WillowTheWhisp 08-10-2008 22:47
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 639538)
I once had a bank manager (Now extinct) say to me 'If you can prove to me that you don't need the money, I will lend it to you'
That's not as barmy as it may sound. If anyone really desperately needs money then the chances are they might not be able to pay it back and could default on the loan. Banks need to lend but they also need to take fewer risks.

jambutty 09-10-2008 18:10
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnyboy (Post 639527)
I see 20 or more of our Councils have cash stashed in Icelandic bank accounts, pity the link doesn’t list them - Councils’ Iceland deposit fears
At the last count it was £860,000,000 spread amongst 100 councils and the police.

So our councils have enough ‘spare’ cash to dump in banks to earn some interest, yet year after year council tax goes up by a few percent over inflation and services get cut.

Ever been taken for a ride?

I wonder if Blackburn is one of those with oodles of ‘spare’ cash in an Icelandic bank, or any other bank for that matter.

This financial crisis is bringing out some facts that I, for one, didn’t know about.

Shouldn’t the councils be using that money to provide the services that we deserve instead of hoarding it to gain a bit of interest? What is that interest spent on? Senior officers salary increases perhaps?

Bonnyboy 09-10-2008 18:27
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 639692)
I wonder if Blackburn is one of those with oodles of ‘spare’ cash in an Icelandic bank, or any other bank for that matter.
There is a list here at the BBC of Councils affected, with some other bodies also.

Cant see Blackburn or Hyndburn on the list, Burnley Council is but no figure stated as yet, just TBC next to them. Guess it stands for To Be Calculated or something.

MargaretR 09-10-2008 18:37
Re: Banks!
 
"Lancashire County Council - £10 million"
this will affect us

Bonnyboy 09-10-2008 18:56
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 639700)
"Lancashire County Council - £10 million"
this will affect us
Suppose we will have to wait and see whether they get the cash returned. If they don’t then it’s bound to have some affect us. :(

Benipete 09-10-2008 19:02
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 639692)
At the last count it was £860,000,000 spread amongst 100 councils and the police.

So our councils have enough ‘spare’ cash to dump in banks to earn some interest, yet year after year council tax goes up by a few percent over inflation and services get cut.

Ever been taken for a ride?

I wonder if Blackburn is one of those with oodles of ‘spare’ cash in an Icelandic bank, or any other bank for that matter.

This financial crisis is bringing out some facts that I, for one, didn’t know about.

Shouldn’t the councils be using that money to provide the services that we deserve instead of hoarding it to gain a bit of interest? What is that interest spent on? Senior officers salary increases perhaps?
Well there you are,I find myself agreeing with you once again.But It's not just councils and police authorities stashing the cash seems charities are at it as well.
I just wonder what other revelations are about to unfold?

jaysay 10-10-2008 10:32
Re: Banks!
 
It seems the government will give some aid to councils in England if they lose money in the icelandic meltdown, however there will be no help for the 8 scotish councils in the same boat, but they are kicking up about it say that the government should also help them as well as thier english counter parts. The Government have said that it is a matter for the scotish parliament to act not westminster, they want their cake and eat, they want home rule, until something goes belly up, then they expect to be bailed out, tough:p

Stanleymad 10-10-2008 10:35
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 639700)
"Lancashire County Council - £10 million"
this will affect us
It will ordinarily affect us majorly, if they dont get the money back councils are offering the ultamatum that if they dont have the money back WE the taxpayers will face an increase in council tax or lose services [that technically we have already paid for!]

Madness!:mad:

jambutty 10-10-2008 16:38
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnyboy (Post 639695)
There is a list here at the BBC of Councils affected, with some other bodies also.

Cant see Blackburn or Hyndburn on the list, Burnley Council is but no figure stated as yet, just TBC next to them. Guess it stands for To Be Calculated or something.
I saw the list on Ceefax after my last post and as you say neither Blackburn or Hyndburn was on it. Burnley was down for a mere £1,000,000.

However the real point is, should councils be hoarding money to speculate with, whilst crying poverty all the time, reducing services and increasing the Council Tax by more than the inflation rate?

It might look nice on paper as the interest comes in but the original capital would do much more than some paltry interest year after year.

I wonder how accurately do the Councils ‘books’ reflect the investment? I’ll bet that it will be disguised somehow, like being lumped together with other figures.

Neil 10-10-2008 16:46
Re: Banks!
 
I suppose if they have some stashed cash they have some security if some emergency crops up. Only like people having savings for the same reason. Maybe the money invested is for large projects that needs the budget spreading over a few years.


Lancashire County Council is down £10 million - anyone know what their total yearly budget is so I can put that into perspective?

jambutty 10-10-2008 16:55
Re: Banks!
 
Don’t fret yourself Benipete, it won’t last long.

Yes indeed with the RSPCA being the latest revelation. How many others? What about the monarchy? What if Liz has millions in an Icelandic bank? Would we ever be told and more importantly would the government bail her out in secret? Not forgetting the other establishment figures.

This debacle rumbles on and on and Brown is going to bankrupt the UK if he doesn’t start thinking clearly. It may yet come to selling the UK to the highest bidder to get us out of this mess. I just hope that it isn’t a Muslim country that does the buying.

Yes jaysay it does seem as if the chickens have come home to roost in Scotland.

One ‘expert’ on the TV yesterday suggested that every single tax payer in the UK is now indebted to the tune of close on £17,000 and rising daily.

jambutty 10-10-2008 17:01
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 639986)
I suppose if they have some stashed cash they have some security if some emergency crops up. Only like people having savings for the same reason. Maybe the money invested is for large projects that needs the budget spreading over a few years.


Lancashire County Council is down £10 million - anyone know what their total yearly budget is so I can put that into perspective?
It is one thing having savings for the future but quite another if your kids are starving or going barefoot today.

Councils have several income streams, with Council Tax and rent from property being the main two. Then there are government grants and the ubiquitous parking fines.

Benipete 10-10-2008 17:34
Re: Banks!
 
Don’t fret yourself Benipete, it won’t last long.Quote;

Seems the charities are owed £125 million now I think some of them are going to suffer. Maybe Great Britain should be renamed Gullible Britain.

I don't need to fret at least not for the next few years I saved up when I was young.:dancedog:

jambutty 10-10-2008 18:11
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 640000)
Don’t fret yourself Benipete, it won’t last long.Quote;

Seems the charities are owed £125 million now I think some of them are going to suffer. Maybe Great Britain should be renamed Gullible Britain.

I don't need to fret at least not for the next few years I saved up when I was young.:dancedog:
But that £125 million was donated by the public thinking that it was going to help the charity to run. How many people are now going to think twice before making further donations?

There’s going to be a lot more tears before bedtime before the coming dawn.

Tealeaf 10-10-2008 18:30
Re: Banks!
 
I see the LET is reporting that HBC had a few bob (£10million) on deposit with one of the Icelandic banks but have now shifted the money over to the Micks.The story - typical of the LET - is then rather confusing. It says the decision to move the dosh into Ireland was made at the time of the Northern Rock debacle, yet that was a year ago. Irish government guarantees were only made last week, so the only explanation I can think of is that the funds were one year maturity. In which case, the ratepayers of Hyndburn have been very lucky. Maybe we should all go out and feast on an Icelandic banana in celebration.

Benipete 10-10-2008 18:33
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 640020)
But that £125 million was donated by the public thinking that it was going to help the charity to run. How many people are now going to think twice before making further donations?

There’s going to be a lot more tears before bedtime before the coming dawn.
I don't need to think twice or even once since I learned the truth.
True they may not all be the same but they would have to prove that to me personally.I for one am not playing the game.:mad::mad:

Neil 10-10-2008 19:22
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tealeaf (Post 640027)
In which case, the ratepayers of Hyndburn have been very lucky.
Is there almost a compliment in there for the Council Officers in the finance dept? :D

Mancie 13-10-2008 21:20
Re: Banks!
 
now it's official..£27 billion given to shore up the banks... banks that have for many years been very happy to issue out letters and overcharge the average man and women for small amounts of debt that is near kin to extortion... were is any apology?..were is any open plan for this type of disaster?...I'm pretty sure the board of directors of any bank/financial company are not to so skink that they will be shopping in LIDL's or Aldis next week.
I have noticed the absence of Accy Web members working for the banks on this site that usually uphold the banking system and structure .. strange ?

Benipete 13-10-2008 21:36
Re: Banks!
 
I think it was more like £37 billion.But what the hell? In for a penny.

jambutty 13-10-2008 21:39
Re: Banks!
 
There was also a shareholder on the news bleating about how hard done by he was, whilst conveniently forgetting all those years of excessive dividends.

Royboy39 13-10-2008 21:45
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 640886)
now it's official..£27 billion given to shore up the banks... banks that have for many years been very happy to issue out letters and overcharge the average man and women for small amounts of debt that is near kin to extortion... were is any apology?..were is any open plan for this type of disaster?...I'm pretty sure the board of directors of any bank/financial company are not to so skink that they will be shopping in LIDL's or Aldis next week.
I have noticed the absence of Accy Web members working for the banks on this site that usually uphold the banking system and structure .. strange ?
Never a truer word spoken Mancie.
I have been on both sides of the fence as far as banking is concerned. I was ridiculed on here for a mistake my wife made and for that we were charged £30......which we got back.
A business can prosper or fail, but it must have the backing of the bank, if you don't, you might as well forget it. If you want credit from your suppliers, unless the bank give you a good reference you have no chance.
I think this brings home to roost that many of the so called experts in banks have no idea how to run their own business.
I can understand why GB and Darling have taken this path and I hope heads will roll for the almighty cock up that has occured.
Luckily now I am completely debt free, no thank to these nerds. :hothothot

Mancie 13-10-2008 21:49
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 640898)
I think it was more like £37 billion.But what the hell? In for a penny.
Ok £37 billion... not to good at maths but I reckon thats knocking on a few hundered quid for each one of the population of this nation... so is my share in the post?.. do I have to transfer oline or do I just pick my dosh up at the now defunct post office?

Royboy39 13-10-2008 21:52
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 640908)
Ok £37 billion... not to good at maths but I reckon thats knocking on a few hundered quid for each one of the population of this nation... so is my share in the post?.. do I have to transfer oline or do I just pick my dosh up at the now defunct post office?
Do I detect your Maggie bashing days are over? :D

Mancie 13-10-2008 21:59
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 640909)
Do I detect your Maggie bashing days are over? :D
Just gonna have to go back to the Man Utd Barcelona bashin days Roy :D

Benipete 13-10-2008 22:58
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 640908)
Ok £37 billion... not to good at maths but I reckon thats knocking on a few hundered quid for each one of the population of this nation... so is my share in the post?.. do I have to transfer oline or do I just pick my dosh up at the now defunct post office?
I think the total is now more than £500 billion or £18,000 each.
May be wrong but I'm sure someone will know.:jimbo:

Royboy39 13-10-2008 23:04
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 640942)
I think the total is now more than £500 billion or £18,000 each.
May be wrong but I'm sure someone will know.:jimbo:
Does that include handouts to the likes of Zimbabwe and other failed economies?

mothernature 14-10-2008 00:13
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 639988)
Don’t fret yourself Benipete, it won’t last long.

Yes indeed with the RSPCA being the latest revelation. How many others

JamButty, have you any links detailing the charities involved. Would be very interested in that.

mothernature 14-10-2008 00:18
Re: Banks!
 
Flippin' heck. Was going to move to Wakefield soon. £15 million between the council and West yorkshire police. Will have to rethink that.

jambutty 14-10-2008 02:53
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothernature (Post 640985)
JamButty, have you any links detailing the charities involved. Would be very interested in that.
No links, just news reports.

mickmc 14-10-2008 05:27
Re: Banks!
 
I have at last found the true meaning of >>>>>>>


" What a bunch of Bankers " :D:D:D

derekgas 14-10-2008 06:55
Re: Banks!
 
The government (I think) have apparently removed some higher bodies from the banking system, but one of them leaves with a £580,000 pension!! And many people are forgetting which party started all this shareholder/privatisation/money grabbing debacle! I am pretty sure this has been on the cards since the days of maggie! And either none of the two main parties realised (which is laughable) or they chose not to do anything about it (which is even more laughable), I said earlier, i have no sympathy for the greedy letches who have earned billions over the years, and now are crying because they have lost little in comparison.

derekgas 14-10-2008 07:03
Re: Banks!
 
I have just been informed that our bank has issued 3 direct debits twice! How much fun will we have trying to sort that out? No surprise that some are in trouble, they are always making mistakes! pee up and brewery syndrome methinks!

entwisi 14-10-2008 08:22
Re: Banks!
 
Posted via Mobile Device

DD's ar dead easy to sort. You tell the bank to refund them under the DD guarantee and they must do so that day.

Then its up to the originator to request them again.

bTW, its not likely to be the bank at fault here as DDs are pulled by the company asking for money not the bank making a 'set' payment.

Please make sure you blame the right people :D

WillowTheWhisp 14-10-2008 10:06
Re: Banks!
 
Can we please just try to get our facts right too before mouthing off about councils hoarding spare cash that they should have been using for our benefit and hiding the fact from residents.

Councils receive money on an irregular basis. Some of it comes in monthly from people who pay their council tax monthly. Some of it comes in in lumps from people who pay their council tax all at once when they get the bill. Some of it comes in (I think) twice a year from central government. Councils pay out money on a regular basis in things such as wages, and on an irregular basis for things such as repair bills. That's just me simplifying the picture.

So it follows that there are times when councils have large sums of money apparently doing nothing but all ear-marked for something. Like when it looks like we've got a healthy bank balance before all the DDs come out. So what do they do with this money Do they leave it in £5 notes in a drawer in the council offices? Do they pay it into a non interest bearing bank account or do they do, as central government advised them to do, put it into a higher interest paying bank in order to make it work for them until they needed it and this reduce the burden on council tax payers?

Now if all had been jogging along smoothly and none of these Icelandic banks had gone belly-up we'd have had people moaning at councils for not putting money in them. This is nothing to do with greed or hoarding or secret keeping from local residents and everything to do with councils trying to do what they deemed best and not having the power of Mystic Meg to foresee that it was going to turn sour.

MargaretR 14-10-2008 10:42
Re: Banks!
 
....on a lighter note - some good jokes produced by the current mess
BBC NEWS | Business | Your credit crunch jokes

jaysay 14-10-2008 10:56
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 641060)
Can we please just try to get our facts right too before mouthing off about councils hoarding spare cash that they should have been using for our benefit and hiding the fact from residents.

Councils receive money on an irregular basis. Some of it comes in monthly from people who pay their council tax monthly. Some of it comes in in lumps from people who pay their council tax all at once when they get the bill. Some of it comes in (I think) twice a year from central government. Councils pay out money on a regular basis in things such as wages, and on an irregular basis for things such as repair bills. That's just me simplifying the picture.

So it follows that there are times when councils have large sums of money apparently doing nothing but all ear-marked for something. Like when it looks like we've got a healthy bank balance before all the DDs come out. So what do they do with this money Do they leave it in £5 notes in a drawer in the council offices? Do they pay it into a non interest bearing bank account or do they do, as central government advised them to do, put it into a higher interest paying bank in order to make it work for them until they needed it and this reduce the burden on council tax payers?

Now if all had been jogging along smoothly and none of these Icelandic banks had gone belly-up we'd have had people moaning at councils for not putting money in them. This is nothing to do with greed or hoarding or secret keeping from local residents and everything to do with councils trying to do what they deemed best and not having the power of Mystic Meg to foresee that it was going to turn sour.
Absolutely Willow stop on karma on its way

andrewb 14-10-2008 11:02
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 641006)
The government (I think) have apparently removed some higher bodies from the banking system, but one of them leaves with a £580,000 pension!! And many people are forgetting which party started all this shareholder/privatisation/money grabbing debacle! I am pretty sure this has been on the cards since the days of maggie! And either none of the two main parties realised (which is laughable) or they chose not to do anything about it (which is even more laughable), I said earlier, i have no sympathy for the greedy letches who have earned billions over the years, and now are crying because they have lost little in comparison.
Now isn't the time to blame capitalism. Lets blame those that failed to regulate the banking sector, because we had a damn sight better regulation before the Bank of England Act 1998 was introduced. People have been able to borrow far too much, and banks, bankers, have been allowed to lend far too much.

Markets are not perfect. They need careful regulation, which they have lacked under Brown/Bush. They are considerably more perfect than state ownership however.

jaysay 14-10-2008 11:04
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 641071)
....on a lighter note - some good jokes produced by the current mess
BBC NEWS | Business | Your credit crunch jokes
:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

mothernature 14-10-2008 12:46
Re: Banks!
 
Wonder how the Swiss banks are doing? :D

polly 14-10-2008 13:07
Re: Banks!
 
I think we need to think about the ethics of BRITISh councils investing in foreign banks
Maybe if they had kept their money in the country of origin UK banking would have been stronger.
The reason for foreign investment is clearly to earn a few extra bob in interest but as we have seen investment is always a gamble and gambling is always risky especially in a foreign market.

As someone who pays council tax in this country I would like to see my money stay in the country

MargaretR 14-10-2008 13:26
Re: Banks!
 
There is an article in the Lancs Ev Telegraph where HBC are congrtaulating themselves for using a bank in Ireland instead of Iceland.

WillowTheWhisp 14-10-2008 14:04
Re: Banks!
 
So how do you define a British bank? :D

Tealeaf 14-10-2008 14:53
Re: Banks!
 
Look on the bright side. Since taking a majority share in RBS, we the taxpayers are now proud owners of over a thousand pubs, numerous hotels, hospitality boxes, railway rolling stock, the biggest bank in Holland (well, a third of it), a corporate jet or two and numerous other assets. I think some deal should be arranged with the first of these on the list. I don't even know what HBOS and LLoyds TSB have on their asset register.

jambutty 14-10-2008 14:58
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 641152)
So how do you define a British bank? :D
What about one that has its headquarters in the UK?

Benipete 14-10-2008 15:30
Re: Banks!
 
Banks decided to become Building Societies and Building Societies decided to become banks.
That was fine for me because I was in some of both.
But greed took over,Salesmen got their commission and then left us all in the mire.
Of course me being the font of all knowledge had long departed and am now even as you read this living the life of Riley.:theband:

jaysay 14-10-2008 16:21
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by polly (Post 641120)
I think we need to think about the ethics of BRITISh councils investing in foreign banks
Maybe if they had kept their money in the country of origin UK banking would have been stronger.
The reason for foreign investment is clearly to earn a few extra bob in interest but as we have seen investment is always a gamble and gambling is always risky especially in a foreign market.

As someone who pays council tax in this country I would like to see my money stay in the country
Yes polly thats all well and good but councils are advised by HMG to invest in places like Iceland to get the best return on their money, your damned if you do and damned if you don't

jaysay 14-10-2008 16:23
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 641183)
Banks decided to become Building Societies and Building Societies decided to become banks.
That was fine for me because I was in some of both.
But greed took over,Salesmen got their commission and then left us all in the mire.
Of course me being the font of all knowledge had long departed and am now even as you read this living the life of Riley.:theband:
That Riley has a lot to answer for Beni:D

garinda 14-10-2008 16:26
Re: Banks!
 
Mum's gone to Iceland.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/a...80_466678a.jpg

I think I might know where all the missing money is.

WillowTheWhisp 14-10-2008 18:33
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 641152)
So how do you define a British bank? :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 641166)
What about one that has its headquarters in the UK?

I had a feeling you would say that - but have you considered what these 'British banks' do with the money invested in them? ;)

Also, what happens when a British bank is taken over by an international bank? (HSBC for instance) should all the account holders have closed their accounts and transferred elsewhere?

polly 14-10-2008 19:30
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 641281)

I had a feeling you would say that - but have you considered what these 'British banks' do with the money invested in them? ;)

Also, what happens when a British bank is taken over by an international bank? (HSBC for instance) should all the account holders have closed their accounts and transferred elsewhere?
Yes, HSBC account holders should have moved banks. Without doubt and I am one who through complacency and lack of time hasnt. I now cant talk to anyone in my own language and have an account manager who tells me that the people at the end of the phone in Malaysia have more authority than he has!
As soon as all this business sorts itself out I am moving accounts

A British bank has to be defined as one who has most of its employees based in the UK. It is time we all started asking a lot more questions about our banks.

WillowTheWhisp 14-10-2008 20:12
Re: Banks!
 
But banking is internationally interactive these days. :(

Neil 14-10-2008 20:14
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 641339)
But banking is internationally interactive these days. :(
It might be but you want to be able to understand the person on the phone telling you how much you owe them

Royboy39 14-10-2008 21:12
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 641339)
But banking is internationally interactive these days. :(
And.............It's gone Tits up.............;)

derekgas 15-10-2008 06:56
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 641026)
Posted via Mobile Device

DD's ar dead easy to sort. You tell the bank to refund them under the DD guarantee and they must do so that day.

Then its up to the originator to request them again.

bTW, its not likely to be the bank at fault here as DDs are pulled by the company asking for money not the bank making a 'set' payment.

Please make sure you blame the right people :D
Didnt know this Entwisi, thanks, but I must tell you that two of them were within the same bank! And were staff wages, not companies! :p

derekgas 15-10-2008 07:01
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 641077)
Now isn't the time to blame capitalism. Lets blame those that failed to regulate the banking sector, because we had a damn sight better regulation before the Bank of England Act 1998 was introduced. People have been able to borrow far too much, and banks, bankers, have been allowed to lend far too much.

Markets are not perfect. They need careful regulation, which they have lacked under Brown/Bush. They are considerably more perfect than state ownership however.
As expected, a very conservative view, but neither party have not regulated many, many things which should have been regulated better, especially within thier own parties.

polly 15-10-2008 09:07
Re: Banks!
 
If banking is 'international' why are my bank charges still at British rates and not Indian? I would happily put up with not being able to communicate with the bank if they charged me one rupee.

This is the trouble with this country we except what we get instead of demanding what we want. Our politicians have this attitude and it means we as a country never get what we need which in this case is our own banking system back, we need to be in charge not America, we are in this mess because of them

Neil 15-10-2008 09:14
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 641402)
Didnt know this Entwisi, thanks, but I must tell you that two of them were within the same bank! And were staff wages, not companies! :p
Are you sure they were direct debits? Sounds more like standing order or more likely BACS payments if it was wages.

WillowTheWhisp 15-10-2008 09:15
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 641341)
It might be but you want to be able to understand the person on the phone telling you how much you owe them

The local branch of a very British bank where I do the majority of my banking has members of staff with foreign accents which some people find hard to understand. So just saying bank with a British bank doesn't mean you will get a local accent even over the counter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 641359)
And.............It's gone Tits up.............;)
Indeed it has but that couldn't be avoided by individual account holders at grass roots level. That's the point I'm trying to make. Put your money in a bank which has it's HQ in this country but how do you know which foreign countries they invest in?

Gone are the days when we had 'Blackburn Trustee Savings Bank' and its head office was on Lord Street West in Blackburn. You knew where you were in them days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polly (Post 641416)
If banking is 'international' why are my bank charges still at British rates and not Indian? I would happily put up with not being able to communicate with the bank if they charged me one rupee.

This is the trouble with this country we except what we get instead of demanding what we want. Our politicians have this attitude and it means we as a country never get what we need which in this case is our own banking system back, we need to be in charge not America, we are in this mess because of them
And whilst the international interaction was getting people a good rate on their savings and affordable mortgages was anybody complaining? Were people demanding higher interest on their loans and lower interest on their savings? Of course not. America isn't 'in charge'. Economics is a complicated subject.

polly 15-10-2008 09:24
Re: Banks!
 
Well Gordon Brown and the French president whose name escapes me, both seemed agreed on Tv this morning that the whole problem originates in America of course it maybe that someone on Accy Web knows better.

It seems to me that the only semi safe and ethical place to keep money nowadays is in a credit union (Does Accy have one?) Apparently they are only allowed to take investments from local people and of course they lend at lower rates to local people. It seems to me that this is the 'back to the roots' approach the ordinary person needs just now

jaysay 15-10-2008 09:53
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by polly (Post 641431)
Well Gordon Brown and the French president whose name escapes me, both seemed agreed on Tv this morning that the whole problem originates in America of course it maybe that someone on Accy Web knows better.

It seems to me that the only semi safe and ethical place to keep money nowadays is in a credit union (Does Accy have one?) Apparently they are only allowed to take investments from local people and of course they lend at lower rates to local people. It seems to me that this is the 'back to the roots' approach the ordinary person needs just now
It has long been said polly, that when America sneezes the World catches a cold, like it or lump it the yanks contol most things world wide when it comes to global finances, its not just Britain that is affected

WillowTheWhisp 15-10-2008 10:00
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by polly (Post 641431)
Well Gordon Brown and the French president whose name escapes me, both seemed agreed on Tv this morning that the whole problem originates in America of course it maybe that someone on Accy Web knows better.
Yes of course the problem originated in America but that isn't the same as saying America is in charge.

That's like saying you caught a cold off your next door neighbour so she must be in charge of the germs.

polly 15-10-2008 19:20
Re: Banks!
 
Well in someway the US are in charge of their own germs and I don't think we should help them to offset their responsibility. It has always been part of the American Dream to make lots of money and not worry about the consequences 9on others.l sdont think we should help them, we have gone to far down their road already, now we need to re set ourselves on our own road whilst looking at who are actions affect - after all it might just be ourselves!

wadey 15-10-2008 20:29
Re: Banks!
 
Both Britain and the US have lent money to people who hadn't a hope in hell of paying it back. Not just for houses but credit and store cards. It could only end in tears but we all end up paying.

Eric 15-10-2008 22:35
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadey (Post 641670)
Both Britain and the US have lent money to people who hadn't a hope in hell of paying it back. Not just for houses but credit and store cards. It could only end in tears but we all end up paying.
True indeed. And even in Canada, where the banks operate under a very stiff bank act and are conservative in their lending, we are suffering a little from the fallout. But there are some good points; gas is now selling at 95 cents a litre:dancedog: ... you guys think of that next time you fill up:hidewall:

steeljack 16-10-2008 05:40
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric (Post 641730)
True indeed. And even in Canada, where the banks operate under a very stiff bank act and are conservative in their lending, we are suffering a little from the fallout. But there are some good points; gas is now selling at 95 cents a litre:dancedog: ... you guys think of that next time you fill up:hidewall:
thats good , works out at about $ 3 .00 US per US gallon (3.78 liters),
payed equiv. to C$ 1,07 per liter today in Ca. ($3,52 US gallon)
I guess good things happen when you re-elect the Steve Harper guy and his Tory cronies ;) ;) :D

Eric 16-10-2008 06:40
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 641748)
thats good , works out at about $ 3 .00 US per US gallon (3.78 liters),
payed equiv. to C$ 1,07 per liter today in Ca. ($3,52 US gallon)
I guess good things happen when you re-elect the Steve Harper guy and his Tory cronies ;) ;) :D
Harper will have to lead a minority govt. He got a very strong rebuff in Atlantic Canada, and an ass kicking in Quebec .... point is, Harper had no real opposition, the Liberals are in a real mess, and he still couldn't win.

derekgas 16-10-2008 06:51
Re: Banks!
 
you could be right Neil, it is office work, and I dont do office work, all I know is, we are several hundred pound down because of banks errrm hiccups! :d

Neil 16-10-2008 07:21
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 641752)
you could be right Neil, it is office work, and I dont do office work, all I know is, we are several hundred pound down because of banks errrm hiccups! :d

Do you think the bankers might be suffering from stress? :rolleyes:

garinda 16-10-2008 08:03
Re: Banks!
 
I'm suprised that no one has mentioned conspiracy theories...yet, and all of this financial mess is the work of a few international Jewish financiers, seeking a new world order, or that it is the work of people who are actually lizards, such as the Queen.:D

jaysay 16-10-2008 09:29
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 641765)
I'm suprised that no one has mentioned conspiracy theories...yet, and all of this financial mess is the work of a few international Jewish financiers, seeking a new world order, or that it is the work of people who are actually lizards, such as the Queen.:D
I hear Liz speaks highly of you as well Rindi:D

Neil 16-10-2008 09:59
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 641779)
I hear Liz speaks highly of you as well Rindi:D
He best be careful, she might send him one of those Mercedes taxi's that she uses :rolleyes::p:D

garinda 16-10-2008 11:08
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 641779)
I hear Liz speaks highly of you as well Rindi:D
Personally I don't hold much store by conspiracy theories.

It's David Icke who thinks the Royal family, and most western leaders, are actually lizards.;)

WillowTheWhisp 16-10-2008 13:02
Re: Banks!
 
Maybe it's all been set up to take our minds off global warming/cooling/wetting. :eek:

jambutty 16-10-2008 16:15
Re: Banks!
 
Hardly a day passes by without the revelation that yet another government department (Quango) admitting that it too has several million in an Icelandic bank.

I would be very interested to know how much the three major political parties have salted away and where.

And now as the government has announced that no share dividends will be paid to the shareholders of the three partially nationalised banks for one year, the shareholders are crying foul.

Of course those same shareholders seem to have forgotten the times a plenty when for years they have received dividends far above their expectations. Note to all shareholders – share values can go down as well as up.

Another note to shareholders – when you bought shares in a company you became part owner of that company. As part owner you are entitled to a share in the profits but the other side of the coin is that you are also responsible for any losses that you should make good.

There are more revelations to come in this banking debacle.

jaysay 16-10-2008 16:27
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 641817)
Personally I don't hold much store by conspiracy theories.

It's David Icke who thinks the Royal family, and most western leaders, are actually lizards.;)
If your even listening to what David Icke say, I'm begging to worry about you Rindi:D

WillowTheWhisp 16-10-2008 17:37
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 641875)

Another note to shareholders – when you bought shares in a company you became part owner of that company. As part owner you are entitled to a share in the profits but the other side of the coin is that you are also responsible for any losses that you should make good.
That's a very interesting point.

As for being dischuffed that there aren't going to be any dividends - how naive can they be? If the banks they had invested in had gone bust there wouldn't have been any shares at all never mind dividends! :rolleyes:

steeljack 16-10-2008 17:46
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 641875)
Another note to shareholders – when you bought shares in a company you became part owner of that company. As part owner you are entitled to a share in the profits but the other side of the coin is that you are also responsible for any losses that you should make good.

.
Was there not something like this a few years back with LLoyds of London , (the insurance brokers) seem to remember that more than a few had to dig deep into their pockets to come up with funds to cover some big claims , think the boxer Henry Cooper got his fingers burnt .

jaysay 17-10-2008 09:44
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 641917)
Was there not something like this a few years back with LLoyds of London , (the insurance brokers) seem to remember that more than a few had to dig deep into their pockets to come up with funds to cover some big claims , think the boxer Henry Cooper got his fingers burnt .
You mean the Lloyds names SJ, there was more than Cooperman that got his fingers burnt

Tealeaf 17-10-2008 15:12
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty;
[FONT=Times New Roman
As part owner you are entitled to a share in the profits but the other side of the coin is that you are also responsible for any losses that you should make good.[/FONT]
You never heard of limited liability, Jambutty? Shareholders are not responsible for losses.

What an idiot.

jambutty 18-10-2008 08:21
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 642037)
You mean the Lloyds names SJ, there was more than Cooperman that got his fingers burnt
Lloyds of London names are a different animal to shareholders.

Lloyds of London is a British insurance market. It serves as a meeting place where multiple financial backers or ‘members’, being corporations and individuals (known as names), come together to pool and spread the risk.

jambutty 18-10-2008 08:48
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tealeaf (Post 642105)
You never heard of limited liability, Jambutty? Shareholders are not responsible for losses.

What an idiot.
The limited liability applies to a company regardless of whether there are outside shareholders or not. A newsagents or a one man/woman plumbing/electrical/builder business can be a Limited Company that issues 2 shares, usually at a nominal fee of £1. One share is usually held by the owner of the business, who also holds the title of CEO and the other is held by a family member who holds the title of Company Secretary. Any debts incurred by that business are limited to the business’ value.

http://www.ukcorporator.co.uk/limited_companies.php#lc_01

In any case I never said that shareholders were RESPONSIBLE for losses. I said, “As part owner you are entitled to a share in the profits but the other side of the coin is that you are also responsible for any losses that you should make good.”

Maybe I worded it wrong? On the other hand other readers understood what I meant.

My point was that if shareholders accept dividends they SHOULD also accept liabilities. Sadly that is not the case.

The only idiot round here is yourself for engaging in the infantile pursuit of trying to gain “Brownie points”.:tongueout

jaysay 18-10-2008 09:10
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 642250)
Lloyds of London names are a different animal to shareholders.

Lloyds of London is a British insurance market. It serves as a meeting place where multiple financial backers or ‘members’, being corporations and individuals (known as names), come together to pool and spread the risk.
Quite aware of that JB, its just that SJ mentioned Lloydes, and I merely said that these financial backers were known as names, aware they're not shareholders

Haggis316 18-10-2008 10:23
Re: Banks!
 
I was emailed this Addams Family spoof video take on the Credit Crunch by a financial letter I am signed up to:

iBall - The City without a suit

jaysay 28-10-2008 09:32
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 639337)
For years in times aplenty the shareholders have enjoyed dividends beyond their wildest dreams and the fat cat bosses scooped huge bonuses.

Now when the banks are going through severe times, times of their own making I might add, shouldn’t the shareholders and fat cats prop them up and not we tax payers?

Only this morning I received a letter from Barclays (I have never had an account with Barclays) offering me an unsecured loan of up to £10,000 and of course a credit card.

Has Barclays learned nothing?
I have just had letter from my own bank Lloyds TSB offering me a £18000 loan, and if I need more just give them a ring and they're sure they'll be able to help. The mind boggles:eek:

Wynonie Harris 28-10-2008 12:37
Re: Banks!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 645193)
I have just had letter from my own bank Lloyds TSB offering me a £18000 loan, and if I need more just give them a ring and they're sure they'll be able to help. The mind boggles:eek:
Take it...it's economically sound thinking to run up big debts...Gord says so!


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