Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Was watching Breakfast TV this morning and the Governments Behavior Tsar, Sir Alan Steer, was being interviewed regarding children's class room behavior. It seems, according to this chap, that behavior is no worse now than it was in the 50s and 60s, I just don't know where they dig these people up from. In my day you didn't F and blind in class, you didn't disrespect your teachers, nor did you assault them either, and pupils being expelled or excluded was very rare and why, because if you misbehaved you knew exactly what to expect, and you deserved it too

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

glad i missed that or me boot would have gone through the screen.:rolleyes:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

As luck would have it cashy I was in bed at the time or it may have got the same response from me. He's just another of the chattering classes always talking and feeling important even when talking a load of ^*@>"&?s

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how people like this are in responsible positions,is totally beyond me.:(

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Well its a friend of a friend of a friend, who's not doing anything at the moment:(

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

....and this is of course assuming they've actually managed to get to School in the first place and arnt at home getting one another pregnant!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

also it was saying on tv the other night, that truancy had gone up, despite more parents being jailed fer failing to ensure the kids attended school, so its back to the drawing board i reckon.:)

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

I'm not so sure whether I feel this way like you Jaysay. You been watching too much Waterloo ?

Think there is quite a lot of excessive bad behaviour in schools reported in the media, and seemingly is quite rare. (sorry, just heard that the other day .. can't offer any proof). Ok, know lots of teachers can't cope with their classes much any more, and some have nervous breakdowns,etc.

Of course, have no up-to-date experience, can only go off my own reports from younger members of the family who never complained about this type of situation.

Are there any schools in Hyndburn suffering with disruptive behaviour ? Would be good to hear from our younger members as to what they think.

For example, seems the prosecutions for truancy has gone up this year, (just seen Cashy's post ), but this did not exist in 'our day', and there was always plenty of this going on with false sick notes handed to teachers.

Just open minded at the moment, that's all.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

I think Grangehill had a lot to answer for, in making bad behaviour seem the norm and encouraging the copying of it.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

think thats a valid point.

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Also saw a report yesterday about absences due to stress amongst teachers. Apparently something like 60+ have been off over a YEAR due to stress caused by unruly pupils.
Have looked for the article quickly but haven't been able to find it yet, will post it when I locate it!!

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

I would not let my daughter watch it.I was no angel at school in fact the opposite but I found the behavior in that program shocking.

Still she used to con the old lady next door into letting her watch it.:mad::mad:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Stress was not an acceptable 'sick note' reason years ago though CP .. they just had to carry on with the job.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Can we have an over 50's section of accy web please...

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

[QUOTECan we have an over 50's section of accy web please... ][/QUOTE]

Why do you not think our opinions are valid in the forum as a whole?
Maybe we should have a youth section?? :D

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

and a childrens.:rolleyes:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

It's just any discussions like these are pointless - anyone in the school system 40 years ago has no idea what it is like now and it is the same the other way around. All these threads just end up with posts of "back in my day"...

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I myself have had kids in the school sytem from 1976 till 2 years ago, I now have grandchildren at school. :) So it's not just a case of "back in my day" I take notice of what's going on.

So no they are not pointless comments. Us oldies know what it was like then and now, and are able to compare. :)

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

However only have one first hand account... just like everyone else, regardless of age.

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people who have taught all their lives say its worse, but of coarse sam knows better.:rolleyes:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

When at school there werew plenty of ways to keep us under control many of which are now banned. My own daughter says it can be bad and she is a pleb at Grangemouth High. Even in primary schools it can be bad as she has first hand experience of and got a broken arm as proof.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Waterloo kate:eek::eek::eek::eek:the only time I watch that is when the other have is in it, then I usually record it on Sky+ so I can get rid of the irrelevant bits:D

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We've already got plenty of them cashy:D:rolleyes:

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Just wondering why your down as a senior member when actually your quit juvenile:rolleyes:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Back in my day if I misbehaved at school I got a clip around the ear,it never did me any harm!
Back in my day if I misbehaved at school I got a clip around the ear,it never did me any harm!
And another thing, back in my day if I misbehaved at school I got a clip around the ear,it never did me any harm!
:)

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Is that over 50 years; or is it for those with an IQ over 50? :confused:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

guns, knives, gangs.... the list is endless of course it far worse these days:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

seriously? u belive that?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

I have said it before and now say again
I do not lie

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

i dont want to be rude but how old are u? there is no way grange hill is responsible for the problems in our schools.

my understanding is its a social thing, more kids are misbehaving as its seen to be cool, getting excluded or having an asbo is seen as a badge of honour nowadays and the kids that come from poor upbringing now just give up and be the "bad" boy rather than try and drag themselves out of the gutter

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By poor upbringing do you mean financially or poor parenting?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

a bit of both

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

My age, 66, is in my profile - my son was at Rhyddings when Grangehill started and I recall him being amazed at the antics they got up to, and away with

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It is not fair to assume that one equates to the other, which seems to be what you are suggesting

Finances and the parenting issue are 2 different things

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but did it make him behave worse?

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i knew someone would say that, a high percentage of kids from poor familes will misbehave.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

That is a very sweeping statement to say the least. Have you got statistics to prove that, or is it your own theory?

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No - but chidren who entered secondary school later would have a preconceived notion that such behaviour was normal

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how is it sweeping? the goverment would like us all to think that children living in poverty dont get left at the wayside but the reality is they do, pick an area of accrington that has a lot of low income familys how, how many of there children go on to university? when i was at school none of the teachers inspired me to learn becuase they didnt feel id pass any exams so they basically forgot all about me. nowadays this hopelessness results in kids being disruptive, violent and playing the " its cool to be bad" card.

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sorry i cant agree with that at all, i respect your opinion but think its as outlandish as they guy on tv saying "school is no worse than the 50's"

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Well I have 2 at Uni and 3 in good jobs, and never had a spare penny to my name.

Just because you come from a low income family doesn't mean you can't pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

Even in some poor parenting families , some kids go on to succeed despite that fact.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

and i never said "all" i said a high percentage. i dont have a penny to my name but i would say where a poor family.

i think if kids dont get an education of some substance then i feel the chances of grabbing a "good" job are goibng to be few and far between and gradutes will always prevail.

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What high percentage? have you got figures, or are you just going from your experience?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

yeh mainly from experience and i belive its getting even worse

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

In support of my opinion that Grangehill was a bad influence - please see this website which outlines the early series and the controversy they caused
GRANGE HILL ONLINE | Episode Guides | Series 2

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

lol

i used to watch soildier soldier when i was in army and i couldnt belive the stuff they got away with but it didnt make me want to try it :D

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

But what you believe is possibly from your own experience, and it's unfair to tar all low income families with the same brush. Are you a bad boy then? If not you have disproved part of your own theory.

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have to disagree, that to me is the same line of thinking that says all those on benefits are scroungers. any kid with ability can go to university as my lad did, its all about sacrifices if yer prepared to make em in low income families.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

The words when i was inare very relevant - you were already aware what standard was expected of you.

Children newly entering secondary school expected it to be as depicted in Grangehill and behaved accordingly

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Too right.. "where do they dig these people up from"?.. I mean the likes of David Cameron telling us to hug knife wielding, drug fuelled hoodies..were did you dig him up from? :rolleyes:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

i was a bit of a ****** when i was growing up and left school with 0 gcse.

and out of experience i have a large group of friends with quiet a lot of us who came from low income familys and none of us went to university and id say none of use have any real future job wise.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

u mean you dont?

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:)

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i know what your saying i jsut cant really see it. i was in primary school when grange hill started...i think? and i never once saw a sausage on a fork.

and tackiling hard hitting issues is good isnt it? or do we have to sugarcoat the world ?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Have I not seen you on Speakers Corner touting for Micheal Foot?
I believe your mate Reg had a contract out on Wilson? :cool:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

sugercoat sod all in my book.:D

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I still say that the dramatised bad behaviour shown on Grangehill led many children, who then entered secondary school, to believe that bad behaviour was acceptable and the norm
when it wasn't before

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maybe if the teacher where stronger they wouldnt of got away with it ? or maybe its the "kids have rights to" brigade that made it how it is? my mum said i had rights once i brought money into the house :D

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Teachers were always able to cope with one or 2 such badly behaved pupils per class, but when the whole class had a distorted view of what was acceptable they were overwhelmed

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whille I was reading this thread a bloke on the telly made the statement.."our generation have let our childrens generation down"... maybe we should think that way a little before steaming to todays kids... at the end of the day it is us that created any situation..kids don't just "take over" unlike adults.

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a whole class? come on that cant quite be right and i can read your posts ok margaret no need to put parts of it in bold :D

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

I use bold to indicate the words I would give verbal emphasis to if I was speaking to you - if I want to shout I will use block caps.

Remember how apprehensive you were when you moved from primary to secondary school at the impressionable age of 11.

You will have felt the need to 'conform' to what you thought was expected.
When Grangehill had lowered that standard most 'conformed' by lowering theirs

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

At Rhydding in 1953 we had a teacher called Franklin or Frankland, his nickname was Birdie.
That man would never be overwhelmed as you put it, he was a hell of a teacher and he was the boss.
His view of acceptable was his word was law and we all knew it.
He had a small plot of land at the back of the school which he called his own and if you were on the wrong side of the fence you would be invited after school to dig a 6ft hole and then fill it in, whatever the weather.
The softie approach was unknown and I am all for that.
When in the army in later years the education continued and open your mouth when its not warranted you suffered the consequences.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

i remember mr mchale had me kneeling on pencils for talking when i should of been listening but u cant do that now :D

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Do you think that he could have coped with 3/4 of the class needing such punishment at the same time?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Is this a tate a tate or can we all join in?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

You can't blame a generation's behaviour on a television programme. If standards have fallen and teachers can't cope it's because successive governments, in their wisdom, have taken most means of disciplining away and replaced them with "rights".

If a teacher, or indeed anyone in authority, as much as touches a child there's a hue and cry and any young thug who knows a teacher can't even retaliate, if attacked, is going to take advantage of the fact. It doesn't take long for the attitude to spread to a whole class.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Ossy warrior, your posts are contradictory aren't they?

Take this

So you are saying in that post that it's the spoilt brats who are the problem.

You also say the teenage problem was worse back then in another post. it can't be both can it?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Lets get real... the main thing being that, rich or poor, the person involed has to have the qualifications to even apply for a place at Uni...now there's no way anyone can tell me that a kid from a less well off family has the same chance as one from parents that can afford to pay for the best education at the earliest age.. I've known very bright kids that had fantastic potential let down when they ended up at bad state secondary schools with bad reputations and frankly not very good teachers...these schools are predominatly in areas were incomes are low... there's no doubt that if you can afford to pay for your kids education .. they have a much better chance of Uni

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Why can't they? If a kid has it, he has it. If he wants to make a future for himself he will do his darnedest to meet that goal

Like you said if they get the qualifications..., and you don't need fancy education for that

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

you don't need fancy education but you need decent teachers.. and the best teachers..given a choice.. do not teach in run down inner city schools in areas known for violence and poverty.. why would they?....it's not like on telly were you get good teachers going to rough schools because they want to help bright kids.. that happens on telly, but not in real life!

Posted via Mobile Device

No if u look back I said it isn't any worse now than when I was a teenager in oswaldtwistle, now u quoted me mentioning the new housing estate on rhoden road and saying maybe that is a reason for the sudden increase in teenagers meeting around where I live.

Is internet one up-manship so important u have to trawl my previous posts ?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

were talking here about hyndburn/accy district teachers in what is known throughout the country as a low paid area, mancie, last i heard was no inner city around here, take yer point about such places though, although i was never brought up in one.:) fer me hyndburn i assume had/has good/bad teachers just the same as most small towns,

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

ok in my family alone 4 attended the 6th form, 1 went to manchester polytechnic, 1 salford university, 1 liverpool university, 2 accrington & rossendale college after leaving school. We all went to the same school well nearly all - it changed names in 1973 so basically it was the same school. Haslingden Secondary/Haslingden High ....... Now we werent rich by any means ... and if anyone knew my dad ...which jaysay might remember him from many years ago ... seeing as it was 23 years since he died last week... my mum and dad never paid for any of our education - we went through school and did our best. They backed us all the way and if we wanted to stay on at school then they supported us - but if we wanted spending money after the age of 16 then we had to have a part time job. In actual fact i got a paper round and thought i was in the money - and dad stopped my pocket money after i started the paper round! The above includes my nieces and nephews and they were treated exactly the same when they finished school ... thats why 1 is at salford uni at the minute, another trained as a nanny - when a job fell through she retrained as a teacher at Liverpool uni, 1 went into the 6th form ..did his a levels and is now working for lancashire county council ... on an apprentice scheme ... and doing a good job to. They all have or had part time jobs going through uni and 6th form.

Thing is though we made it through with the backing of parents and grandparents ... how many kids nowadays will have that ... with divorce, separation, or just being with a single parent ... Thats the problem ... we had discipline growing up from both parents .... now they dont.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Oh and before anyone says that im having a go at single parents im not - i know quite a lot of single parents who have done a good job.

The difference being 30/40 years ago you had never heard of divorce ... it was rare round here. Kids were brought up in a 2 parent home. A lot of kids might spend saturday with their dad, but do they know their dads parents the same as what we knew ours .... In otherwords the family breakdown as got a lot to do with it ... as well as tv, and dont forget computer games and playstation and xbox etc ...

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Yes hyndburn and the likes are different.. would'nt class accrington as a depraved area but then again not a rich area.. but certianly in london there are areas that are totally different as far as housing and education are concered.. there is a basic wage structure in London for teachers.. now I say that if a good teacher can get the same wages as a bad one.. then he/she will apply for a job in say..Hampstead rather than Brixton.. so it's got to the point were the better teachers end up in the "better" bouroughs..and there's no doubt to me that if you are not in the right place then your kids will not get the best.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

LOL. :D

There are certainly a few depraved inhabitants of Accrington. :D

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

i blame me upbringing.:D

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

I'm still asking if any schools in Hyndburn are having disciplinary problems as depicted in the media ? I don't think so.

There is a unit which was the old tech (Cashy) where they send the expelled/troublesome pupils and works very well ... my daughter taught there for a while.

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At least when you got to 70 you saw the error of your ways and reformed a bit though ;)

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dave thats all a blag im still a barsteward.:D

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Yep individuals.. and I'll bet not a gollywog to be seen ;)

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We did have a strange monkey resident at one time ;)

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Margaret.. I know your old and can't recall stuff.. but that was when you lived in Hartlepool..(Ain't she sweet ..the old dear)

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Stanley supporters know who I mean;)

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cashy does as well.:eek:very suttle margaret.pmsl

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Weakest link fans know too! :D

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

There is an under 10's section, where such posts are welcomed.;)

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Those are the very people able to make real comparissons, because they experienced the education system in the past, and their children/grandchildren are experiencing it now.

Basic common sense.

Did they teach you nothing in school?

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Obviously he's never been to the parts of Cornwall that the Public School kids descend on en masse in July.:rolleyes:

Children of all social backgrounds have less respect, and care more about themselves, than the wider society at large, than they did thirty/forty years ago.

That's a fact, and if you can't see it then sadly education has failed you.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

That's quite true.

Historically this part of the world has always been a low income area.

Ninety years ago children were educated for a lesser amount of time than today, but were more literate, and many had a desire to continue their education, either by attending night schools, or just plain reading. Which was hard to do when you've worked a ten hour shift.

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As for Grange Hill, I think that really just reflected some schools by the mid seventies, the results of the wooly liberals that started to take over the education system in the late '60's.

Don't call me Sir, call me Steve.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

not just the schools those prats have wrecked society.:(

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:mosher:

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

This area.. you mean Accrington/Ossy..maybe low income on a national scale but you maybe forget that the minium wage is nationwide.. a cleaner in London earns the same per hour as anywhere else even as the cost of rent/housing is massive compared to Accrington... you peolple do live in some sort of fantasy world were you think everything comes to people that work hard....people do work hard and bring up their kids the best they can but it is not that simple.. Accrington is a good, well educated town compared to lots of other places... you should be proud rather than slag off the not so good.. grumpy old folks comes to mind

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Er...you do seem to forget that I lived in London for seventeen years.

My comments about this area ninety years ago weren't geographically specific. The same could be said about the poorer parts of the East End.

People who were poor weren't necessarily uneducated, partly because of the school system introduced after the Education Bill of 1902, and partly because there was a desire to learn for it's own sake, by whatever means, be it night schools, or making use of the free public libraries.

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oh .. cram large families into up public libraries to take the slim chance that they will get education.. my my.. you are victorian ain't you.. maybe stick em up chimneys first just to make them aware of the great gift you.. and your foward thinking like minds are giving the future.. lovely stuff.. from a victorian!

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

plain fact is.. you people from "the hills".. have not done to bad out of the many recessions this country have had to endure.. you'll always have apples, black pudding,pies,low alcolhol beer,tripe,UFO's, whitchcraft,walkin around looking hard, ... and most of all your attitude that the whole world turns around you.. good night and god bless!

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

If you'd take off the same narrow blinkers the Tory supporters on here wear, you might see that I'm not saying that at all.

Ninety odd years ago, because of the reforms in the education system, a formal education was an entitlement for all, regardless of background. Even though children weren't educated for as many years as today, they were more literate. Everything from their copperplate handwriting, to their encyclopedic knowledge of the world testifies to this.

Compared to today's post-war, post-hippy liberalism, post-Thatcherism, call it what you will, our education system, which generally, but not exclusively, has produced a generation more concerned with what they can own in way of material possessions, than what they can possess in their minds, is most unfortunate for society, in my opinion.

Re: Kids behavior no worse than before
 

Anything but first hand experience is irrelevant in this context though, *every* person in the country has been through the education system and therefore there are over 60 million second hand accounts.

You are saying that people can make a fair comparison as they have been in the education system themselves and then have had children/grandchildren who have been through it as well, however if you reverse that I have parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends and work colleagues that have all been through the education system and would probably give a more honest account of their experiences (children and grandchild have the vested interest of not telling *you* anything that might let you down) and yet it would still be foolish to think that a fair comparison can be made from subjective recollections from decades ago.

Plus there is the fact that everyone has a personal attachment to their own particular education system as it has a huge input on ones personality - this leads to subjective debate rather than objective debate and subjective debate is only ever won on numbers - meaning here on AccyWeb it will always be "better back in my day"...