Accrington Web - A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rights

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claytonender

25-02-2009 18:04

A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rights

I received this email from Unions together Today - your comments are very welcome

It may be difficult to believe but it's actually "family friendly" Dave Cameron.

The Tories have spent a lot of money telling us that they've changed. Millionaire Dave has gone to great lengths - cycling around town, waiting for his photo to be taken in Woolies and posing with a few Huskies in Norway. He's even shunned Waitrose and headed for Tesco at least once.

But Dave's plans to pull Britain out of the Social Chapter - the part of the law which guarantees fair treatment at work - reveals the truth behind all the slick marketing. He wants to roll your rights back by twenty years.

But we can stop him - sign our petition to protect your rights.

Unions Together | Cameron's hidden truth

He may pretend to have our interests at heart, but the facts are clear. He wants to scrap the legal guarantee that gives us four weeks paid holiday, the right to be consulted about changes at work and our entitlement to parental leave - denying the legal right for parents to spend time with their newborn babies in the critical first few weeks. That's just three examples - but Cameron's threatening dozens more of your rights.

In fact, he's said that axing these legal guarantees is his "top priority."

It's something that he'll never say on TV or write in a leaflet but he's threatening all of these rights and more.

Sign our petition and send Cameron a message that your rights matter.

Unions Together | Cameron's hidden truth

Dave may pretend to be everyone's new best friend but it's clear that he's faking it. It's not surprising really. After all, Millionaire Dave actively campaigned against the National Minimum Wage - when some people were earning just £1.20 an hour.

We need to send him a message and I want you to be one of the first to do it. Sign up to say that your rights matter -

Unions Together | Cameron's hidden truth

No matter what the marketing says, it's clear that he's only interested in protecting big business rather than ordinary working people. Sign the petition and then invite your friends to do the same.

Unions Together | Cameron's hidden truth

Thank you. Our rights are precious - we need your help to protect them.

Byron Taylor

Tealeaf

25-02-2009 18:05

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Total garbage.

claytonender

25-02-2009 18:09

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf (Post 685240)

Total garbage.

What is total garbage - ordinary workers loosing their hard earned rights?

derekgas

25-02-2009 18:14

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

I didnt open the link, no need, the tories have never been 'for' the working man, and I doubt that will ever change, in fairness, I find it equally distasteful that labour did little to turn around what the tories damaged last time.

SPUGGIE J

25-02-2009 18:23

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

If they take these rights we have nowt left and will be open to abuse on all levels. People fought and died for these rights so we better keep em.

K-P	25-02-2009 18:35

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

I stopped when I saw the word unions.. strange that wars should be mentioned. Did you know that unions closed down more factories than all hitlers bombing did..

claytonender

25-02-2009 18:39

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 685244)

Whilst I agree with you that Labour have not overturned all the Tory legislation that is 'anti' working man, but they have introduced a National Minimum wage, parental leave, statutory entitlement to holiday pay, the right for parents to request working hours that fit in with 'school hours' , increased the length of maternity pay (and the time mothers can take off work), extra rights for agency workers.
These are just few of the improvements Labour have made.

SPUGGIE J

25-02-2009 18:39

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-P (Post 685257)

I stopped when I saw the word unions.. strange that wars should be mentioned. Did you know that unions closed down more factories than all hitlers bombing did..

Now that wouldnt be a suprise but then when the cats away.

Eric	25-02-2009 18:54

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-P (Post 685257)

I stopped when I saw the word unions.. strange that wars should be mentioned. Did you know that unions closed down more factories than all hitlers bombing did..

So we are to blame the unions for the mismanagement of the British economy:confused: And what part of the blame for the present economic FUBAR can we blame the workers for: the NINJA loans, the collapse of the US auto industry, which if it goes under will send economic shockwaves world wide, the collapse of British banks, sending valuable jobs offshore ... etc. I just don't see it. To blame the workers is to blame the victims.

Royboy39

25-02-2009 20:54

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685242)

What is total garbage - ordinary workers loosing their hard earned rights?

What about the Post Office?

To post this today just shows that respect for your fellow human beings has gone out the window.....shame on you.

David Cameron's child died this morning.

Neil	25-02-2009 21:01

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685258)

but they have introduced.....the right for parents to request working hours that fit in with 'school hours'

Which is impractical for many if not the majority of jobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685258)

but they have introduced......increased the length of maternity pay (and the time mothers can take off work

I think this is a negative not a positive point. Many companies will think harder about employing women because of the amount of time they could be off having children.

jambutty

25-02-2009 21:11

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

I would want something a bit more concrete than an email from the Unions before I acted. And no I’m not a Tory. They are just the other side of the Labour coin.

We need a new coin.

cashman

25-02-2009 22:16

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 685340)

What about the Post Office?

To post this today just shows that respect for your fellow human beings has gone out the window.....shame on you.

David Cameron's child died this morning.

thats utter rubbish n a cheap shot.:( still it don't surprise me.

Eric	25-02-2009 22:20

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 685340)

What about the Post Office?

To post this today just shows that respect for your fellow human beings has gone out the window.....shame on you.

David Cameron's child died this morning.

I don't see this. What does this thread have to do with a family's loss? It's about politics for chrssake. And the imputation of insensitivity is .... I don't know, bs comes to mind.

cashman

25-02-2009 23:24

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 685244)

sorry claytonender, whilst i was a union man n official for more than 20 yrs, i am afraid i would need more substance than whats contained in the E-Mail, before putting me name to owt.

claytonender

25-02-2009 23:36

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 685377)

sorry claytonender, whilst i was a union man n official for more than 20 yrs, i am afraid i would need more substance than whats contained in the E-Mail, before putting me name to owt.

I understand your point of view and wasn't asking people to sign up just to express their feelings about the possibility of loosing the right to holiday pay etc.

cashman

25-02-2009 23:44

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685380)

I understand your point of view and wasn't asking people to sign up just to express their feelings about the possibility of loosing the right to holiday pay etc.

if i said i remember about the "Tolpuddle Martyrs" i guess you know my answer.;)

steeljack

25-02-2009 23:49

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685258)

parental leave, the right for parents to request working hours that fit in with 'school hours' , increased the length of maternity pay (and the time mothers can take off work), .

Is it any wonder why companies ship jobs offshore, most employers in the private sector want employees there when the business is open during regular hours , not the hours which suit the employees ..., the only folks who benefit from these sort of changes are Govt., local govt. and council employees who all work for places with a bottomless pit of money supply to supply the extra workers.
No way can I imagine my local bakehouse agreeing to allow the workers to start at 9a.m. instead of 6a.m. because there is no-one to take little 'Tiffany' to school .
If you have children its YOU and YOUR familys responsibility to take care and provide for them not societys . :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

garinda

26-02-2009 00:34

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

I certainly believe some unions had too much power in the seventies, and were used as a blackmailing political tool, and a platform for militants to further their own agendas.

That aside, if you look back historically at the time before unions were formed, when workers were just a cheap, disposable commodity, I think the rights that many good people fought for, should be saved.

Message sent to David Cameron via the link.:)

garinda

26-02-2009 00:40

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 685384)

No way can I imagine my local bakehouse agreeing to allow the workers to start at 9a.m. instead of 6a.m. because there is no-one to take little 'Tiffany' to school .

The amount of increased red tape, and new regulations, is strangling for many small businesses, especially new ones.

Theorising about what may seem a just and fair idea on paper, very often just isn't workable.

Sadly many theorists haven't left their desks long enough to understand this.

Benipete

26-02-2009 01:47

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685258)

So If you ran a small company would you agree to all that?:confused:

Boeing Guy

26-02-2009 07:51

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

This is not a secret, it is on the Conservatives web site, just search Social Charter, its the 3rd on the list, George Osborne gave a speech stating this in April last year.
Having read 10 pages or so of the charter, you can find it on the Council of Europe website, it seems very fair and right. Just like the Human Rights Bill, which we are all happy about....
And as for Millionaire Dave, what about Millionaire Tony, Peter, and Gordon or William or George. Politicians are all the same these days, lining each others pockets

Wynonie Harris

26-02-2009 08:55

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Although I agree with rights and protection for ordinary working people, these should be decided by a sovereign UK government and not by a corrupt dictatorship in Brussels.

Interesting, though, that David Cameron is only talking about pulling out of the Social Chapter, though. The fact that he's not even considering the possibility of pulling out of the whole EU debacle casts doubt on the Tories' claims of Euroscepticism.

Royboy39

26-02-2009 10:10

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 685367)

thats utter rubbish n a cheap shot.:( still it don't surprise me.

My opinion on the day.....and your response does'nt surprise me.
Take a good long look at what the numpties in power are doing to the country at the moment. The days of Wilson and Thatcher have gone.
I ask again.....what about the goings on at the Post Office...Nationalation of the banks.....The state of the pound?

turkishdelight

26-02-2009 10:22

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685239)

Which union has this information come from, could you send me the email please.

BERNADETTE

26-02-2009 11:17

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

I have also sent a message via the link, people fought long and hard to get decent working conditions. It is not that many years ago that I worked damn hard in not the greatest of conditions for a pittance of a wage. At least minimum wage goes some way to protect workers from unscrupulous employers.

garinda

26-02-2009 11:24

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 685451)

Which union has this information come from, could you send me the email please.

According to the link Claytonender gave in her initial post 'Unions Together' is the campaigning group of 15 affiliated Trade Unions.

It does list them all on the site, and on the link below.

TULO’s member unions | Unions Together

turkishdelight

26-02-2009 11:57

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685239)

I strongly agree with you on this point. However can you guarantee that David Cameron is going to specifically remove rights such as the 4 weeks holiday etc. or is it not just simply putting back decision making on these laws in the hands of the british government rather than Europe.

Neil	26-02-2009 14:45

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 685494)

Don't we get 5 weeks minimum holiday now?

claytonender

26-02-2009 15:20

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 685540)

Don't we get 5 weeks minimum holiday now?

From April 1 2009 all employees are entitled to 5.6 weeks holidays (this is 28 days). Below is a link to a website that explains hoe to calculate your holiday entitlement. However your employer is legally obliged to give you time off for 4 weeks and you can agree to take the extra 8 days as an extra payment in lieu of taking the holidays.

Holiday entitlements: the basics : Directgov - Employment

garinda

26-02-2009 16:16

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 685487)

No need to thank me for answering your question, which hopefully freed up more valuable time for Claytonender to do her work as a councillor.;)

Eric	26-02-2009 18:51

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 685384)

The problem with shipping jobs offshore is that it is not only the laid-off workers who are hurt, it is the whole economy. All western economies are based on the consumption of goods and services ... which don't come free ... and in order to consume, the consumers need cash ... or at least a solid base on which to borrow. If you send the jobs to countries with low standards of living, horrendous, unprotected working conditions etc, in order to save a few bucks on labour costs your whole economy is in danger ... when you attempt to replace well-paid jobs with insanely easy access to credit you get what we now have ... economic meltdown, with the average joe doing all the suffering.

Neil	26-02-2009 19:31

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685556)

From April 1 2009 all employees are entitled to 5.6 weeks holidays (this is 28 days).

It is only 28 days if you work a 5 day week. I don't, mine is just over 4 I think.

shakermaker

26-02-2009 19:36

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

You give politicians an inch on a messageboard and they take a country mile :D

claytonender

26-02-2009 21:44

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 685647)

It is only 28 days if you work a 5 day week. I don't, mine is just over 4 I think.

Yes it is pro-rata if you work less than a 5 day week - but thought it would be to complicated a post to try and explain that.

Eric	26-02-2009 21:52

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685733)

Yes it is pro-rata if you work less than a 5 day week - but thought it would be to complicated a post to try and explain that.

You should have tried it hon ... most of us on here have at least half a brain;):D As a former bottom ender,:theband: I still have most of mine left:D

claytonender

26-02-2009 22:06

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 685740)

You should have tried it hon ... most of us on here have at least half a brain;):D As a former bottom ender,:theband: I still have most of mine left:D

There is nothing wrong with being a bottom ender - but I have always been a top ender.:)

Eric	26-02-2009 22:09

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685749)

There is nothing wrong with being a bottom ender - but I have always been a top ender.:)

If it's a mere accident of birth, don't worry about it; it's not your fault:rolleyes: On the other hand, if it was a matter of choice ...... ;):D

claytonender

26-02-2009 22:22

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 685751)

If it's a mere accident of birth, don't worry about it; it's not your fault:rolleyes: On the other hand, if it was a matter of choice ...... ;):D

Us claytoners should stick together - we know we are better than the rest.:)

Eric	26-02-2009 22:41

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685753)

Us claytoners should stick together - we know we are better than the rest.:)

I know that ... and knowledge is power:mosher: You can take the lad out of Clayton, but you can't take Clayton out of the lad:theband:

cashman

26-02-2009 22:43

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

even cashy likes claytoners.:)

shakermaker

26-02-2009 22:44

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 685771)

even cashy likes claytoners.:)

Who says there's no racial harmony!:D

Eric	26-02-2009 22:48

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 685771)

even cashy likes claytoners.:)

Was it something to do with the "birds" and the "boozers":D?

cashman

26-02-2009 22:51

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 685774)

Was it something to do with the "birds" and the "boozers":D?

yep plus some good mates in 60s down bottom end.:D

Eric	26-02-2009 23:13

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker (Post 685772)

Who says there's no racial harmony!:D

Most of the people who live in trailer parks south of the Mason-Dixon line;)

Eric	26-02-2009 23:14

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Ooops ... sorry, I hadn't realized that the question was rhetorical ... what a silly bunt I am:eek::D

shakermaker

26-02-2009 23:22

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 685788)

Most of the people who live in trailer parks south of the Mason-Dixon line;)

Seeing as you're on a poetic binge tonight I was going to quote some Oliver Wendell Holmes poem from the civil war... but I've forgotten it.
The thought was there :D

Eric	27-02-2009 00:21

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker (Post 685793)

Seeing as you're on a poetic binge tonight I was going to quote some Oliver Wendell Holmes poem from the civil war... but I've forgotten it.
The thought was there :D

Thanx for the thought ... I'm not normally this poetic, but I'm sorting thro' my books, attempting to impose a little order .... and I can't resist turning a few pages:D

Benipete

27-02-2009 00:47

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 685802)

Thanx for the thought ... I'm not normally this poetic, but I'm sorting thro' my books, attempting to impose a little order .... and I can't resist turning a few pages:D

Ah! Turning over a new leaf,Well done.:theband::D

Eric	27-02-2009 00:53

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 685806)

Ah! Turning over a new leaf,Well done.:theband::D

Oh yes ... groaners ... love 'em. Jokes like this make me feel right a tome;)

andrewb

27-02-2009 02:18

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Turkish delight seems to have been ignored by you Claytonender?

Can you guarantee that policies such as 4 week holiday are going to be abolished? Or is this simply a long awaited movement of decision making power to a British Government? Isn't it about a time we decided our own laws, rather than having an unelected body in Europe make them? I hope you agree with me on democracy.

Mancie

27-02-2009 03:40

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 685818)

Who's laws are we talking about Andrew? .. Tory laws ? the old unwritten laws that lets men die working in unsafe jobs for the sake of profits... wake up man...these laws are in place to ensure that employers don't have to pay out massive amounts to people injured at work and such... i'ts not about workers taking liberties it boils down to ensuring everyone knowns were they stand as basic security for employers and the people they employ....there is no "us and them" in this.....

Wynonie Harris

27-02-2009 07:37

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 685818)

Isn't it about a time we decided our own laws, rather than having an unelected body in Europe make them? I hope you agree with me on democracy.

...and I hope you agree with ME that we should pull out of the whole EU disaster...but, then again, that's not Tory policy, is it? :rolleyes:

claytonender

27-02-2009 07:49

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 685818)

As Rindi kindly answered her question about which unions the email was from I didn't think I needed to reply. Also as I don't have her email address I can't forward on the email, but is she contacts me at my HBC email address - which is [email protected] I will very happy to forward her the email.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but I was under the impression that every 5 years we elected MEP - in fact there is an election on 4 June . I am sure you will be voting for Arlene McCarthy Brian Simpson and Teresa Griffin.

Incidentally I did get to meet your mother last night at Full Council and the Labour Group put forward a fully costed budget (approved by the Chief Financial Officier) which would have ment Hyndburn's council's tax rising by 2.9% and the overall coucil tax bill by 3.05%. The Tory budget was for a 4.9% rise in Hyndburn's share of the Council Tax and overall a rise of 3.35%

garinda

27-02-2009 08:02

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685845)

As you say, I thought I'd answered that particular demand.

Though that remained unacknowledged.

Perhaps like other things, she just didn't see it.

andrewb

27-02-2009 08:34

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 685845)

Well that's nice of you to ignore her question, and then ignore mine. I'll quote what I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Can you guarantee that policies such as 4 week holiday are going to be abolished? Or is this simply a long awaited movement of decision making power to a British Government? Isn't it about a time we decided our own laws, rather than having an unelected body in Europe make them? I hope you agree with me on democracy.

Yes Wynonie Harris I agree with you, Europe is very damaging for us, and we need to start deciding our own laws. The Conservative party are simply not tough enough on Europe, they need to do much more. Claytonender shows her ignorance by believing electing MEP's means anything. MEP's cannot have a mandate, they do not initiate legislation, that is the role of unelected bureaucrats who are accountable to nobody, and have not had their finances accepted by the audit office for 12 years running. What a shambles it is.

Bring our laws back home to Britain, bring decision making back to Britain, bring democracy back to Britain.

claytonender

27-02-2009 09:31

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 685860)

Well that's nice of you to ignore her question, and then ignore mine. I'll quote what I said:.

As I was rather busy last night I only saw the one question from turkishdelight - the one about which union I had got the email from - which Rindy answered.

However the title of this thread was - 'A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rights' which I asked for peoples views on. I posted the full context of the email (which included links tot he TULO website - where anyone could view the backing information).

And in case you are unclear my personal views are that any future Tory government would revert to type and 'screw' the workers as they have always done for centuries. The current Tory leadership are a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Maybe when you are older you will have more experience of life and will not just talk out of your backside.

Wynonie Harris

27-02-2009 10:57

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 685860)

Quite right, democracy is a dirty word in the Brussels parliament. That's why the Irish are being made to vote on the treaty again, because they got the wrong answer last time (they rejected it). So much for the will of the people! As for the corruption and waste in the EU, it's a scandal which far outweighs anything in this country, but, of course, those who support the EU blithely choose to ignore it.

jaysay

27-02-2009 11:13

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 685900)

Democracy in Brussels never seems to sprout any green shoots Wynonie,:rolleyes: like you said the Irish are being asked to vote again until they get the right result, mind you we didn't even get a vote to get it wrong in the first place:)

Mancie

01-03-2009 02:39

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

hey lets get back to the "good Old Tory Victorian days"...
YouTube - BEASLEY STREET - JOHN COOPER CLARKE

accyman

01-03-2009 03:29

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

a long time ago i was told that under tories the rich get richer and teh poor get poorer and i see very little evidence of that been incorrect

im no poltical guru but even i can see through camerons disguise as a caring person

watching him talk about peopel not so fortunate in society pretending to give a damn makes me think of comic guy out of teh simpsons screaming "WORST ACTING EVER"

mind you when i look at gordon brown i cant help but think of that advert for spotting a stroke about to happen and wonder if i shoud call somone to go round to number 10 and see if hes ok :confused:

andrewb

01-03-2009 08:55

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 687054)

A while ago I realised the difference between Labour and the Conservatives. I realised they both wanted the same thing, that people in society who work hard, should be rewarded. I realised that they both believe in equality of person, which I indeed believe strongly too. I realise they both believe in not failing those in society who need help.

The difference is, the Conservatives realise that you need money to achieve things, and that forcing equality of wealth simply makes the country poorer, so we all suffer. It's better to have a wealth gap and those people at the bottom be better off, than it is for everybody just to be poor, but equally poor.

Mancie

01-03-2009 09:48

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 687099)

A while ago I realised the difference between Labour and the Conservatives.

The difference is, the Conservatives realise that you need money to achieve things, and that forcing equality of wealth simply makes the country poorer, so we all suffer. It's better to have a wealth gap and those people at the bottom be better off, than it is for everybody just to be poor, but equally poor.

hang on..that's the old "trickle down" system the Tories employed in the mid 80's ... if it's not hurting i'ts not working... the people earning vast amounts will somehow let the less well off slurp up the dregs.. well that has not been an active policy of this Government ...it is a slum dog attitude you and your Ilk like to propagate.. Fascist *******.

claytonender

01-03-2009 09:56

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 687099)

Spoken like a 'True Tory' - devil take the hindmost springs to mind. Why did we not have a minimum wage until Labour were elected in 1997?

Personally I find it abhorrent that anyone can be earning over £125K. There would still be a wealth gap, but amuch fairer one.

Can you tell me why Directors and Chief execs of companies always take the plaudits when company are doing well (and very rarely give their employees any credit for working hard and acheiving the success) but blame the work force when things go wrong - it is never their fault, despite them being quite prepared to profit because of the 'sweat' of the workers.

garinda

01-03-2009 10:12

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 687099)

I realised that they both believe in equality of person

Being too young to remember eighteen years of a Conservative government, you probably won't know of all the unjust laws regarding equal rights that there were on the statute books at that time. Not only did they chose to ignore them, but they added to them.

Happily subsequent governments have got rid of the antiquated laws that prevented equality for all.

andrewb

01-03-2009 10:17

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 687138)

I don't want to live in the past. There are Labour policies which I disagree with, such as specifically banning certain commonwealth nations from coming to this country. However, I can't say that if I was 18 in 1997 that I would suddenly decide not to vote for Labour because of something they did in the 60's.

Claytonender I guess this is our difference, this is what makes you Labour and me a Conservative. You have got to have wealth to be able to distribute to the needy. You just believe that we should distribute, the wealth will slowly dwindle and everyone would be worse off. I couldn't live with that.

Mancie

01-03-2009 10:25

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Distribution of wealth has not been the Tory policy for the last 200yrs.. Andrew are you in a position to now announce a new Tory policy?..

garinda

01-03-2009 10:32

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 687143)

I don't want to live in the past.

Nor do the Nu-Tory Lite party, apparently.

We're now supposed to hug those anti-social members of our society, instead of giving them the clip round the ear that they deserve.

cashman

01-03-2009 10:35

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 687143)

its not living in the past to look back n see where the real benefits to the ordinary folk came from, thats summat all wanabees seem to disregard.:rolleyes:

andrewb

01-03-2009 10:40

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 687162)

its not living in the past to look back n see where the real benefits to the ordinary folk came from, thats summat all wanabees seem to disregard.:rolleyes:

Not sure who you're talking about, but it's not something that I personally disregard. Labour have done a lot for social reforms in this country, and too right, we needed them, that's why it's good to have a democracy that changes whom is in power, rather than one party continuing forever.

claytonender

01-03-2009 10:56

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 687143)

I don't want to live in the past. There are Labour policies which I disagree with, such as specifically banning certain commonwealth nations from coming to this country. However, I can't say that if I was 18 in 1997 that I would suddenly decide not to vote for Labour because of something they did in the 60's.

Also Accyman man got it right when he said 'a long time ago i was told that under tories the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and i see very little evidence of that been incorrect'

Claytonender I guess this is our difference, this is what makes you Labour and me a Conservative. You have got to have wealth to be able to distribute to the needy. You just believe that we should distribute, the wealth will slowly dwindle and everyone would be worse off. I couldn't live with that.

I am not saying that there should not be wealth - just that the Tories idea of distributing is as Mancie said that the less fortunate (in wealth) terms should just be able to slurp any dregs left behind.

Maybe one day, when you are much older you will have the experience to lecture us on wealth - because at the moment all your knowlege comes from books and listening to lectures (by people who also probably have no knowlege of 'real life' outside the confines of their gilded tower).

Also I find your words 'distribute to the needy' extremely patronising -typical Tory.

As regards why I am Labour - I have lived here in Hyndburn for more years than I care to remember:D. I have formed my political opinions over more than 50 years and can see that any Tory administration (at whatever level of governement) does not help the lives of the majority of the population. As I have said before as a child, I was always taught that 'I am my brother's keeper' and he only party that I have ever seen attempt to do this has been the Labour Party. I know they have made mistakes but these are the principles I try to live by.

I alos happen to know that Greg Pope was always taught the same and he is attempting to fulfill this.

Can you tell me which party attempted to stop the formation of the Welfare State in 1948 (The Welfare State is the greatest acheivement any political party has ever made to the lives of the people of this country). Ok I know it is not perfect but where would we be without it?

Which party tried to prevent the extension of the rights of Agency Workers in 2008 by talking the bill out?

Finally can a leopard change its spots (and become the caring sharing party - led by people who have no idea of what it is like to struggle to pay your bills, feed your children and keep a roof over your head)? I think not

Eric	01-03-2009 16:29

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 687125)

Why do Ronnie Raygun and GW and their business cronies (esp. the ones who ended up in the slammer) come to mind:rolleyes: ... and where did "trickle down" economics put the US; at the head of the charge towards the biggest economic meltdown since the big one.:confused:

Eric	01-03-2009 16:32

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 687152)

Distribution of wealth has not been the Tory policy for the last 200yrs.. Andrew are you in a position to now announce a new Tory policy?..

Oh c'mon ... the tories have always favoured the distribution of wealth ... but it's a limited distribution, ending up in the pockets of the top one or two percent.:rolleyes:;)

Benipete

01-03-2009 17:25

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 687441)

Oh c'mon ... the tories have always favoured the distribution of wealth ... but it's a limited distribution, ending up in the pockets of the top one or two percent.:rolleyes:;)

I think there should be a limit on how much us equal people should earn and indeed how many football clubs we can own.

SPUGGIE J

01-03-2009 17:31

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 687451)

I think there should be a limit on how much us equal people should earn and indeed how many football clubs we can own.

Capped maximum salary I take it? That and footy clubs should not have billionares as owners thus reducing the number of overpaid egotistical sportsmen and their spoilt money wasting wags that youngsters idolise.

Benipete

02-03-2009 00:11

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Maybe this guy can help!!!
Trade union chief used £399-a-night Waldorf suite to save himself 35-minute journey home | Mail Online:confused::confused:

SPUGGIE J

02-03-2009 06:21

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 687608)

Maybe this guy can help!!!
Trade union chief used £399-a-night Waldorf suite to save himself 35-minute journey home | Mail Online:confused::confused:

How on earth can that be justified? Whats wrong with a traval lodge at £40 a night? And this kind of person fights for the rights of the workers. Sorry but sack the bustard!!!!

Oh and before the eggs fly a bustard is;

are large terrestrial birds mainly associated with dry open country and steppes in the Old World. They were renowned by the ancient Arabs for being unnaturally stupid

Neil	02-03-2009 07:09

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 687608)

Maybe this guy can help!!!
Trade union chief used £399-a-night Waldorf suite to save himself 35-minute journey home | Mail Online:confused::confused:

From the Mail article

Quote:

In 2007, the last year for which figures are available, Mr Simpson is revealed as earning a £105,217 salary, plus further benefits including £13,333 for a car and £24,070 in pension contributions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 687451)

I think there should be a limit on how much us equal people should earn................

Are that Union chaps salary figures in line with you maximum?

Benipete

02-03-2009 10:46

Re: A quick question - who wants to take away the legal guarantee protecting your rig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 687643)

From the Mail article

Are that Union chaps salary figures in line with you maximum?

That question is better answered by the workers he represents,but it does seem like a lot of money to spend on a 4 night sleep over.

Would he have paid it out of his OWN pocket?I think not.:confused::confused:

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