This is as good a reason as any
 

This is as good a reason as any the get rid of the flaming Human Rite Act. I refer to the case of that slime ball that was convicted of raping a two year old little girl, although he has yet to be sentenced, his lawyers are not waiting to see what is punishment is, but are to appeal under the HRA saying that his rites were infringed because the little girl (who is now 4) gave evidence against him, via a video link. Even so these lawyers questioned the little girl for 45 minuets during the trial (how do these people sleep at nights). I think the best thing really for this animal is that whilst he waits the outcome (paid for on legal aid) of this appeal, he be transferred to an open wing at say Walton, Armley or Strangeways, should sort things out a little quicker:rolleyes:

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

*rights

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Rights, Rites who gives a flying, people with a view of life no the story, maybe if you want to be fussy you should stick to Bebo with all the other big girls blouses:thefinger:thefinger:thefinger

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

*know

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Jaysay, could not agree more mate. It would be great to know the scumbags name and his new address, I am sure there would be some people who would like to give him a serious talking to. But of course, as we all know, being a vigilante is illegal, shame:D

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Why does it seem that the only person whose Human Rights are important are those who do the most heinous things???......this man has a history of cruelty......and he did despicable things to a baby abusing her and causing her pain......now he is planning to appeal because he doesn't feel that his victim was a 'credible witness'.......she is the victim, who is protecting her human rights?
The abuse was witnessed by Baby P's mother and she did nothing to stop it or protect the child........These people do not deserve to have any kind of life.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

And I would like to say to SamF...if all you are going to do is correct the spelling or grammar of other contributors, then perhaps you need not bother.
We all know what Jaysay is getting at.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

I think a full life term in Broadmoor would not go amiss.
I mean life means life and sod human rights.
What human rights did this little lass have when this animal attacked her?
I wish the courts had the the power to have him geld as he should be.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Actually it's Rights with a capital R :rolleyes:

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

He should ge down for a very long time and be left to the mercy of the other lags (although we all know this will never happen). I do have to wonder about putting a child so young on the stand although I can see that without her evidence a conviction would never have been reached. I just hope and pray that she gets the very best after care by was of counselling poor soul.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

I agree jaysay get rid of the Act or amend it to stop it being abused.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

I hope I am not an intolerant person. I was raised to be tolerant to every persuasion and idealism. I was also one of those who supported the abolition of the death penalty, over 40 years ago.

When it comes to a creature like this, however, who kills one child and rapes another, my tolerance is exhausted. There is no adequate punishment for this individual, in present-day Law. He does not, in my opinion, deserve the privilege of a life.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Its a joke it gets worse when the attacker gets more protection than the victim, human rights you shouldnt have any when you do sick things like this or when your in jail, and they should do full sentenaces and jail should just be basic no tvs, no gyms, pool table, heating anything. Lawyers protecting him are a joke they are just dragging the case for aslong as they can because they know they will get money. One way for the goverment to get on the right side of people

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

the thing is to me, these people treat the human rights act like "Monopoly" n use the get out of jail free card, cos its there,they can, the real blame lies with these dickheads who formed the Act in its current state, as others have pointed out no thought much at all fer victims, just scumbags.:(

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

no human rights act lets scum dogs like him off.. non.. jaysay ....you used to be an activist for the tories?..******* ..I'll say it again so we all get it clear... the European rights act was implemeted by John major in 1995...

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

I'm a little confused? The European Convention on Human Rights was established in the 1950s ... was written into UK law by Blair in 1998 as the Human Rights Act.. What are you referring to?

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

What is the European Rights Act 1995?

No offence or anything but from what I can see... and I've studied EU law for two years now... it doesn't exist?

Are you thinking of something else?

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

the maastricht treaty that the then Tory Government signed up to around 1995...no confusion here... the human rights act may have been put forward in the 50's but your party signed up for the european rights act at Maastrict.. an act that imposed european law on all member states ..yeah?
ps sorry had to edit ..it was 1993 when the act was signed..and all business including health and saftey was included into the treaty.. Tory *******!

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

I always wonder why people make so much fuss about human rights and Europe when we're also a member of United Nations which demands respect of human rights as well.

At the end of the day, if people want to act like animals then I think they shouldn't belong to a civilised society like those which are a part of these agreements and alliances, and that goes for those who wants to act like animals when they punish people as well.

Why punish pain with pain?

I hate to make such a comparison but if anyone watches casualty they'll know that last weeks episode involved a little boy who punished the boy that was bullying him by locking him into a dark space, something which his grandad did to him. The consequences just resulted in more harm than good, in the case of both boys.

Look at the woman in Laos up for death by firing squad for trafficking drugs. She's pregnant, she's young. She's still broke the law and she's still a criminal. Who on this forum would like to be the one to shoot her? Or kill her by any other method?

You can't pick and choose, which is why we have quite lenient (in comparison to other countries) but uniform laws which can be applied to all. Sadly these are taken advantage of at times but if we were to start picking and choosing or making laws stricter then it'd result in far worse crimes against humanity, so I think people should have a long hard think about that before jumping on the 'lets hate the EU/tories/human rights act' bandwagon.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

And it was February 1992 actually.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

yeah bazey..but the point of this thread is that this government are soft on these people...and all is forgotten that it was a Tory Government that forced in the human rights act...and whats more the Tories have consistantly opposed any degrading of the act.. the resolution for 92 days for suspected terrorists is a prime example which the Tories opposed.... now we have bods shouting and blabbing about human rights as if it was invented by Gordon Brown.... when these people get in power we will see.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

I don't see Gordon Brown repealing the Act?

If you don't want your Human Rights protected by statutory law then that's fine, go and live elsewhere and live under a legal system that isn't lenient on criminals. You'll find that there is far more injustice under those legal systems than under this one.

Yes people bang on about human rights, but for the most part they are unsuccessful. Nobody is going to accept that its unreasonable for a child witness to give evidence via video link, it is generally accepted that children, especially those that have been through traumatic experiences, are bound to give some impartial evidence and yes, even somewhat fabricated. But no judge is going to accept that that child is unreliable because at the end of the day, children don't just make up evidence that disgusting and naturally the effects of nightmares, stress and blocking out the memories lead to those problems.

It's not a problem with protecting human rights! It's a problem with sick people thinking they don't deserve to go to prison. You aren't going to solve that by taking away the Human Rights Act. They'll just find another technicality to fight.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

ok blazey.. try explianing that Jaysay,:D..

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Mancie your hatred will forever puzzle me. As much as this government have destroyed this country over the last 12 years, I don't hate them, I don't have a stirring anger inside me building up to be unleashed. Despite their punishment of the poorest in society, despite their economic incompetence, despite all the job losses... I really can't find it in me to detest them in such a way that you choose to.

The human rights act is a joke. We need an act that establishes fundamental rights and freedoms for individuals, but if you choose to harm others liberty then you can't expect the protection of your own in return. I'm not for a moment saying we should completely forget human rights once you damage somebody elses, but you can't expect it to imply in its entirety.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Well, Jaysay doesn't have to agree with me but sadly he has to live with it unless he wants to leave the country to somewhere that doesn't protect human rights and I don't really see why anyone would want to?

The majority of Britons leaving this country to go live elsewhere choose Australia, New Zealand, France or Spain. These countries all protect human rights in similar ways to the UK. People don't seem to want to live in places that reflect this distaste for the Human Rights Act that's for sure.

On a similar note, apparently there are more British people living abroad than any other nationality. Mind you, my source is a newspaper on this... though its not often that newspapers want to point out things that make us think that actually we bang on about absolute nonsense most of the time when it comes to immigration and jobs.

I get to read every day how people benefit from EU legislation and inevitably people fall beneath the net sometimes with legislation but that is because it is just so difficult to predict what issues will crop up and you can't cover everything in one document, its just not possible which is WHY we have such an amazing common law system that other countries try to replicate in their own countries. We should be proud of our legal system but instead people want to complain about the flaws. Well they're a damn sight smaller than a lot of the flaws of other countries, and believe me I'd know!

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

You can't start establishing subjective laws Andrew, they're more vulnerable than the Human Rights Act will ever be.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Well someone should. Why should somebody who for example takes a life, be able to enjoy the sanctity of the entire human rights act? One needs basic rights in that situation and that's it. Else it's not punishment for the crime.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

No-one has yet told me how the Human Rights of the victim of this crime are being protected, or for that matter who is protecting them. The justice system certainly doesn't seem to be doing it, the social workers aren't doing it.......so who is??

As for the pregnant Woman in Laos, she took the risk knowing what the penalty was......and so she should expect the justice of that country.......perhaps if more countries exacted the same kind of punishment, drug trafficking would cease.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

As long as the correct procedures are followed by all those involved with prosecution there is no reason why a murderer would walk free because of the Human Rights Act.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

bollox...to say this government has destroyed a country that was not only brought to it's kness by your lot but was kicked to death in the proccess ..a well organised proccess of getting rid of any sort of "society" we still had...you Andrew and your ilk are a form of human life that will always plague mankind.. a virus that has managed to traverse into human beings.. but you will always be sought out and whatever power you manage to wrangle you will always be defeated.. by mankind.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

That doesn't make sense Margaret, that country has severe drugs laws in place and yet it still happens on quite a scale. That to me is just as an inefficient law as what these other people are suggesting the Human Rights Act is.

The child's rights are being upheld by him being up for trial in the first place. Also the child is being given the facilities to not have to stand in court and give the evidence in front of him. I would say the child is quite adequately protected now.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Well Mancie, your raging criticism sure holds some weight. It's based on the idle link to me voting Conservative. The only entity lacking in this entirely justified scathing attack is a criticism of my views and opinions.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

If anyone wants to live in a state of anarchist communism then please get in touch. I'm interested in doing this in the near future.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Andrew you are a pain to anyone..no matter the way some may vote..your signiture is a blatant advert for your right wing views.. and whats more ...in my opinion out of order ... not much I can do about that..but I have reported it.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Shall I report you for supporting English heritage as well?

Give it a rest. He can declare his allegiance to the tory party just like you can wave your flag.

And let's face it, there is nothing more annoying than a flag waver.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

yeah there is something more annoying...blatant advertising of a right wing web... using this site as a link to someones personal view...and I have to say goodbye to all... cos the geezer I've complained to is the same bloke thats gonna kick me off!..... thats Tory democracy summed up..if you don't like it you are a tree hugging pussy!

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Every single post is pretty much a link to a personal view. You impose yours on everyone every time you post.

Nobody is forcing you to click on his links are they?

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

A link to someones personal view? Those people with darn opinions! By ek.. in my Utopia.. :D

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

no ..i don't click on em and never likley to cos i don't like him... but when an administrator of this site can push his views by advertising then it's tits up... it's a newspaper ..for people that agree or some that pass by just to take a look..I owe this website it don't owe me... but when it turns into a site were a single member can advertise his political leanings at will.. without debate then it's gone.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Well what do you think about newspapers allowing adverts for 'massage parlours' and things like that then?

To be honest, I'm sure you could quite easily debate his signature if you really wanted to. But its a bit pathetic to do such a thing, hence why I don't do the same about your flag waving, which I find quite irritating in the same way.

I think you need to stop creating issues where there is no need to. He could just as easily blog on accyweb, what would you do about it then? Not very much you could do to be truthful, its not offensive, you just want censorship.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

no censorship!...shut yer gob blazey .. it's like having a debate with R2D2!

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

R2D2 is pretty intelligent and humorous.

So you don't agree with censorship but you don't want Andrew to be able to show his political followings in his signature, yet its perfectly ok for you to show your flag?

I think I recall someone else doing this in the past...

Stalin? Hitler?

Yeh, they were pretty popular guys too Mancie.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

my sig is the flag of England....it does not portray any political allegience... and it does not send a direct link to right wing or left wing propaganda..someone who has the role of administrator can of course do as they wish.. but I don't like it..I ain't askin anyone else..I'm just that kind of guy... que sera sera!

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Being an admin or not being an admin has as much to do with an orange and an apple going to market where this is concerned.

If you wish to debate my signature, more specifically the content or the rights and wrongs of having opinions that are different to your own, then please start a new thread about it before we all completely derail from the topic. I'm not so sure you should create it in general chat though, this is a place for 'serious discussion'. I'd try anything goes.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Whether the laws of Laos make sense or not was not the issue....the issue is that this country has well defined and publicised laws on Drug trafficking..........if you can't do the time(or accept the sentence) then you should not do the crime.......again whether the law works, it must deter some people....and certainly when someone is caught, it sends out the message that this is not acceptable behaviour.

As for the child victim.......you may think that her Human Rights are being upheld, but if this man was to win his appeal and be given a lighter sentence and was let out.......perhaps at a time when you have children, would you feel that your children were safe from him?
Shouldn't parents expect that their children will be protected from men like him?

I think that Human Rights should only apply if you prove to have human qualities....this man appears to be inhuman.......caring only for his own pleasures and not caring who these pleasures may harm...permanently.....and while children are very resilient, how do we know that this child is not damaged beyond repair?

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

seems to me "anything goes" means wherever you like as far as you are concerned.... your links to anti government /pro Tory propaganda are direct and follow you around no matter which section you post in....and I suspect I'm just gonna have to put up with it.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Nice to see Mancie's is feeling better and back on the lash:D must still be celebrating last nights events at the Emirates:rolleyes: Nobody is against Human Rights (that okay for you simple Sam) just against at the loopholes that these scumbags use to further their own pathetic end, this is nothing to do with Tory Labour or the Monster Raving Loony Party, its about justice for those who are so badly treated by it, we hear about cases every day, The European Human Rights act, in its present form, was signed by Tony Blair (by his own words his finest achievement) in 1998 which ensured that Human Rights lawyers such as Ms Booth can fill their boots and have been doing so ever since. Just in passing I notice Simple Sam has been unable to add any meaning full input to this debate:rolleyes:

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Don't be stupid, JaySay is someone who will believe anything just to make him angry. Hence why it is fun to metaphorically prod him with a stick. He also personally attacks anyone who disagrees with him. Such behaviour should be beyond someone of your intelligence, the way you are acting is discrediting any good points you've made. (I should know, I do that sort of thing all the time :D)

Also Blazey, that degree of yours is working, a year ago and you'd have been shot down for your opinions but you put them forward very well. And I'm trying to say that without being patronising however I fear am failing miserably.

The legal system works bloody well in this country and I'd like to ask how many of the people who are so aggressive in their views as to why law x should be scrapped, have even read the act ? Studied law and the legal system ? In any way looked at the facts and formed your own conclusion ? Or is it, as I suspect, based on second hand accounts and tabloid fiction ?

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

yep Jaysay (the only black, gay Tory in the village)... the act was ratified by Tony Blair...and was implemented for good and bad.. it's fair enough to pick holes in it and loopholes there maybe.. but there is no mention of letting rapists or peodophiles off the hook... you condem regulations that allow anyone to have a fair trial..anyone.. not just the rich and powerfull that are your masters
you say we should revoke the human rights act...and what would you replace it with?... an anarchistic free for all were if you don't like the look or views of someone they get the chop?... sounds like Sharia law to me..and you don't want that..or do you?

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

No, I just don't want people with slick lawyers on legal aide, using the EHRA to get a scumbag (who has been convicted) of the hook by using loopholes in this act. Its about time we started looking at the RIGHTS of the victims and not these serial offenders

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

unless I am very much mistaken....and I'm sure that if I am I will be corrected on this...Blazey has not yet graduated......I think that she will have another year to do before she graduates......so while she may be studying for a degree SamF....she hasn't actually got one....yet.
And while I freely admit to not having read the whole of the European Human Rights Act.....it was covered in courses that I did during my time in the NHS...as part of a Management qualification....so my information isn't purely from the newspapers...and we don't all read the red top tabloid press.
It does not appear to protect the vulnerable as I am sure was intended...but it does appear to protect the criminals and line the pocket of lawyers who seem to have the knack of exploiting it for their own benefits.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Can't see how she has graduated or not has anything to do with it, she mentioned she has studied european law which is what is relevant here. She also has 4 years more formal legal legal training than the majority the people on this board, 2 years more than myself.

The act is here if you do wish to read it :)

Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42)

If you wanted to look at any others a quick google will find you them - they are all online nowadays :)

I am honestly not trying to discourage an actual debate on this subject, infact I think it would be an interesting one, if an intelligent one and not based on exagerration and red vs blue - can I ask for clarification on what you mean when you say

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Well, Sam, this child is not being protected,in any shape or form.....so therefore she is vulnerable.
Lawyers make lots of money exploiting Human Rights issues on behalf of those convicted of crimes.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Her abuser contravened Article 3 of the Human Rights Charter...he tortured her sexually.

Using her as an object for his sexual perversions was degrading and demeaning.
She will live with this for the rest of her life.

Re: This is as good a reason as any
 

Your wasting your time Margaret, what Samuel knows will fit in a book what he doesn't know will fill the library