Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I think it's a great idea, although will take the whole "volunteer" process that much longer.

Working with any "vulnerable" person, the employee or volunteer should incur a CRB check, whether it be children, old people or disabled that they will be working with.

It isn't fair that these people are put at risk, just because the "helper" is a parent or volunteer.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

The wife had a CRB check done when she started at the nursing home she is at

I also had one done as i will have to look after Peter,Less and Lynx in there twilight years in the railway:)

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Your such a saint mick.........you'll get your reward in heaven (sooner rather than later) :D

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Seriously, doesn't this just show how far society has fallen, when I was a lad (a long time ago I know) mothers used to take it in turn taking the kids to school, to do that today they'd all have to have a CRB check, I don't think things have changed for the better have they?

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

i had to have one done when i ran the mums and tots group at the community centre 11 years ago and when i was vice chairman of the pta at Reece's primary school, i totally agree with them

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

It seems to me that my son's friend can come the this private residence and stay for as long as he wants and there are no checks needed on me while I do my several hours unpaid childcare behind closed doors.

As soon as his mother and I arrange to share the school run, when I'm in a necessarily transparent space (windowed car) with a fairly important task on my mind (driving) and for a limited time (15min school run) I need a CRB check?

CRB checks don't flag up bad people. They only flag up those bad people who've been caught.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

And don't forget it also cost money too

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I agree things have definetly not changed for the better. What happens if you have a friends child sleep over? It really is going to get to the stage where kids sleep-overs at their friends stop because of these rules.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Is this not more talking about events, brownies, cubs, after school clubs, that kind of thing?

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Why does the title of the tread mention cabbies?:confused: The article has no mention of them so why bring them into it? I doubt the real perpertrators will be caught out with this, Ian Huntley slipped through the net. It is genuine people with nothing to hide that won't object to the checks, the guilty ones will make the most objections.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Yes I suppose it is but things are heading the way of all fun for kids being stopped because of fears. I mean does every parent that lets their child go on a sleep-over know 100% that the people whos house they are staying at are not perverts?

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I think Mani was using the word cabbies to mean drivers? Although I'm not 100% sure

And no, ya never totally know anybody, whether it be family, friend or parent of your childs friend

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

it has been said many times before, that if a person hasn't been caught for doing anything bad, then they won't show up on a CRB check........so you can have someone who isn't all sparkling and clean, looking after children because they haven't been caught yet.

Ian Huntley springs to mind.(though something tells me that he should not have passed a CRB check because he had some kind of record,just that the police didn't communicate between forces.......I am sure someone will put me right if I have got that wrong)

In all honesty, I think this will just mean that the good honest folk who want children to have the opportunity to experience fun times outside school hours will just no longer volunteer to help at these events......which will mean that many of these organisations will go to the wall.
We have to realise that we are making childhood poorer for our children by meddling.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I agree with Margaret kids are going to end up with no outside activities and you have got to wonder whether this is just another money making racket at £64 per person.

Margaret I think Huntleys conviction was under a different name or something like that.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Depends who's paying for the check.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

It's just another way to tax, and to instill the thought 'trust no-one'.
The more fear that can be implanted in a society, the more restriction of freedom that society will accept

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

My understanding is, that if you get no money...are an unpaid volunteer, then there will be no charge for going on the database, but I think that you will still have to pay for the CRB check(or the organisation that is using your services will have to pay).

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

my thoughts are many people will just stop helping out, end result, less fer kids,its as simple as that.:rolleyes:

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

It will be the organisation that pays.... as quite a few already do

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

And this means that the organisation will be £100 per helper out of pocket......which in turn mens that there will be £100 less to spend on activities for the children.

While I applaud trying to safeguard children, I think we are in the position of making children and parents believe that everyone has evil intent towards our children. I also think it prevents children from developing their own inner sense of who is a danger to them......and this will mean that they may still be vulnerable as adults because they haven't been able to develop strategies for themselves.

Parents are already paranoid about letting children play out, walk to school......indulge in the healthy(both bodily and mentally healthy) pusuits that we were allowed to pursue as children.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

also many doing favours don't want hassle n red tape so will say sod it. some may not like the idea, but i'm sure will prove fact.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I agree with the crb clearances .. i had to be crb cleared when i was volunteering at the school, for the credit union because the collection was in the school and also at work because kids were coming into the sports centre for parties and for sports courses. You also have to be cleared if you are the carer in the taxi taking kids to schools in the morning or picking them up from school.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I know what you are saying Jen, but CRB is flawed......it won't safeguard children from the people who have not yet been caught.
We have to educate children in safe practice, but that is a fine line because we must not allow them to believe that all people are a danger to them.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Im not a parent .. but i know that i would be happier if the person who is teaching my child the trampoline or teaching them football skills is crb cleared and the receptionist who will be in contact with my child and keeping an eye on them till i returned to pick them up is crb cleared.

The problem with a crb clearance is its valid for ever .. there is not an end date on it but at work we say a crb clearance is valid for 3 years and then they must have a new one and because we have coaches provided by the sports centre the trust does do the crb clearances but we also have coaches provided by clubs that hire the hall and so they all have to have crb clearances as well and thats when the 3 year rule kicks in.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

The thing that makes things like this flawed in my mind is the fact that paedophilles are living and being protected in our communities. Where is the protection for our children/grandchildren then? This is just a money making racket when put side by side with that happening, it was only earlier this year when my daughter found out the man next door to her had a conviction for sexual offences against kids. What about her childrens safety from this pervert? They had none!!!! By the way he is back inside now.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I accept that a CRB check is the norm for people who are teaching children, or dealing with them in a formal setting, but expecting parents who give a lift to a child or children on an irregular basis is ridiculous, who is going to police this?

A CRB check only means that the person who has been checked has not been caught doing anything that they shouldn't....it doesn't mean that they have not done anything bad.

We are breeding a society that is dependent on governmental intrusion.......bringing into force regulations that are almost impossible to police and enforce.
Yes, of course the Scouts, the Brownies and other organisations will have to follow these regulations, but that doesn't mean that we are safeguarding our children.

Parents who help one another out by giving children a lift home will be likely not to do this anymore......who would want to risk a hefty fine(if policing were possible, that is)...so what happens? Maybe the child will be left to find his/her own way home.....is that a safer option?

OK, in an ideal world, the parents would always be there to pick up the child, but we know that there are times when this isn't practical/possible...so do you ask friends to pick up your child and risk a fine for not being on this database and CRB checked?

This database is going to be a governmental moneyspinner.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

it wasnt that long ago they were considering making people sign consent forms before screwing them to avoid rape :rolleyes:



crb checks should be carried out on any adult in a place where they are left in charge of children or vulnerable people outside the home and other domestic arrangements

i suppose as long as you avoid sending your kids to the scouts and teh catholic church you severely reduce teh chance of your child encountering a pedophile but theres no harm in tightening up other areas as well

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

This mass screening of innocent persons would not be neccessary if the names and addresses of persons on the sex offenders register was allowed to be made public.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Informal arrangements between parents will not be covered, but anyone taking part in activities involving "frequent" or "intensive" contact with children or vulnerable adults three times in a month, every month, or once overnight, must register, it has emerged.

All 300,000 school governors, as well as every doctor, nurse, teacher, dentist and prison officer will also have to sign up.

It is thought that 11.3 million people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland - close to one in four of all adults - may register with the Home Office's Independent Safeguarding Authority [ISA].

Thats taken from the bbc website .. so will you pick up little tommy from the footie type pick ups wont be covered .. as long as its not on a regular basis ...

BBC NEWS | UK | Parent driver checks prompt row

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Could not of put it any better myself.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

It's not public:confused: :eek: And I suppose the coppers don't make public the names of sex offenders who have served their time and been released into your community:confused: Seems a little silly. If any sex offender is released into Kingston, the KPD publish his photo and his record. What's the point if the public are not informed.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Here is more info
Q&A: the sex offenders register | Society | Guardian Unlimited
extract-
"Who gets told about the movements of sex offenders?
Head teachers, doctors, youth leaders, sports club managers and others, including landlords, are notified of the existence of a local sex offender on a confidential basis, but a system of general disclosure is unlikely to happen in Britain."

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

No Eric it isn't public as I posted earlier in the thread my daughter who has three children had a convicted sex offender living next door to her with no idea about it. Apparently my grandchildren have less rights to protection than a convicted paedophille:mad:

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Agree completely.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

at the risk of repeating myself, why is society now more fearfull than it ever was, cos theres no proper deterant, no respect fer justice cos its virtually non- existant. as was said these pervs have more rights than the kids.:mad:

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Talk about using a hammer to break an egg.

This legislation actually takes the premise of guilty until proved innocent. People should also bear in mind that the CRB check is flawed in the fact that your name stays on this register if you have had an allegation of abuse against you and been proved innocent.

a) the majority of child abuse is done within the family, this legislation will therefore not protect the majority of children

b) this legislation is a direct result of the inquiry into the Huntley case and although it would have stopped him getting the job of caretaker it would not have stopped the tragedy since he got access to the children through his girlfriend not through his job

When my kids were growing up, they had their friends round to stay overnight on a regular basis and vice versa, it was mine (or the wifes) responsibility to check out the suitability, informal chat with the parents, asking friends if they knew the parents etc... I didn't need this nonsense to protect my kids, in other words I protected them myself by using my head. I didn't leave them in a hotel room while I went drinking with my friends either!

The government is encouraging car sharing to ease traffic flow at peak school run times, then makes it more difficult by bringing in nonsense like this.

As an aside, does this legislation cover priests?

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Good point Guinness.........They have as many bad apples as any other organisation..

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

And there was me thinking George Orwell's 1984 was make believe, Winston is still alive a kicking

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Absolutely nuts .... in legal cases where the rights of the individual clash with the good of the general population our Supreme Court has consistently ruled that the good of the majority can outweigh the rights of the individual citizen.... just seems to make sense ... ah well, different strokes ....

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

maybe its a good thing that names and addresses are not open to public view in the UK , was there not a case a year or so ago of a "group of concerned parents and well meaning neighbours" attacking a paediatrician thinking he/she was a paedophile. :eek: :eek:

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Reminds me of a wonderfully funny scene from "Reuben, Reuben."

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

lol im just wondering how many of these people opposing the crb checking will be screming more shoudl have been done to protect a particualar child when the next case hits the headlines.

if pedophiles were executed then figures would drop as they often get released and re offend

crb checks may not be perfect but at least its a start

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

I think you are missing the point Accyman, people are not against CRB checks in principle but see it for what it is a money making racket. Ian Huntley was CRB checked did that save Holly and Jessica? Like everything else the perverts will find a way to get round it.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

its quite a minority that fiddle with kids and an even smaller mionority that would go out and basically hand deliver kids to a pedophile and i can quite confidently assume that most women if asked to go out and find a child for their partner to fiddle with would say no and ring the police

anyone who wants to be in a place of trust with children should expect high scrutiny and if they dont like it then they should rethink their carreer options or hobbies if running a football team or somthing

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

You are happy to be considered guilty until proved innocent then????
I thought that in English law it was the other way round.....innocent until proved guilty.

The other thing is, that this scheme (which the government are now re-considering) will bring in £64 pound for every person who requires assessing.......and another £36 for the CRB check.
It is a stealth tax on organisations that cannot afford it, organisations that will disappear and make childrens lives poorer, and leave children less able in their social skills.

It is another government Quango.....it will not make the lives of children safer, but it will stop good hearted parents from volunteering their services to ferry children to and from events.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Exactly Margaret was speaking to somebody on Saturday who's daughter normally ferries kids to football practice and matches. She is doing other parents a favour but is not prepared to pay £64 for the privelege and I don't blame her. The thing is the kids will probably lose out because of her decision.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

This was being discussed on the radio last week. Some chap, I don't know who he was as I came into the discussion half way through, made the point that this does not relate to parents doing favours, taking a friend's child somewhere etc. It is to cover people who make the commitment to be a designated driver, on a regular basis, to take children to sports and other activities.

That said, I think it's ridiculous, expensive and solves nothing. It goes hand in hand with, and fuels, the paranoia about children that is everywhere and the apparent belief that the world, somehow, holds 10 times more paedophiles than it did 50 years ago. It doesn't, they were always around, but as Cashman said there were much harsher punishments in place and that deterred a lot of them.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

well i for one would rather send my kid in a mini bus driven by somone who had at least been crb checked than somone who hasnt

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

Fair point but as she is doing the parents a favour why should she pay for the check?

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

well thas when common courtesy comes into play and arrangments between those benefiting from having their kids chaufered about come to an agrrement to split the cost

as for other jobs i think teh applicant shoudl pay for the crb check but if they pass it the company shoud reinburse them the cost and things made to work so that can happen

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

A negative CRB proves absolutely nothing....other than the person who is ferrying the children hasn't been caught.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for protecting children, but I don't think this is the way to do it.
It does erode our constitutional right of 'innocent unless proved guilty'(a dangerous precedent)....and it assumes that everyone is a paedophile.
It also will generate big bucks for government, and we know that whatever the government say, they are not good at looking after personal information, or for that matter ensuring that the information they do hold is looked at by the right people.

It would not have stopped the guy Ian Huntley from doing what he did to Holly and Jessica.....because he did not have a criminal record...and the records held by police in one part of the country were not available to the police in the county where he was able to commit his crime......and though this system is supposed to centralise such information, I think it is unlikely to protect children from the people who do not have a crime against their name, but could still be abusing children......just not apprehended doing such acts.

We are going to make children paranoid about their own safety.
We are going to stop children from taking part in healthy activity, from socialising and developing interpersonal skills, when we should be educating them to the dangers, but ensuring that they know that most adults are trustworthy.

We need to let children develop their own instincts about people, otherwise we are going to be fostering a generation of adults who cannot suss out who they can and cannot trust.

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

It now seems that there is some backtracking going on, kids secretary Ed Balls is having another look at the situation and will recommend that the system is watered down bit

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

at least we are not as bad as brazil

BBC NEWS | Americas | Man held after kissing daughter

Re: Its not the cabbies - its the parents - check them!!
 

That just is OTT