To old to drive?
 

After yesterdays tragic accident in Accrington I have been listening to alot of debate on the subject of driving age. It reports on the BBC Lancashire website

BBC News - Crash kills driver, 89, and baby in Accrington

that the driver was 89 years old, is this to old to be in charge of a vehicle? should there be a cut off point?

Re: To old to drive?
 

by the amont of dithering old idiots trudging along at 15mph holding up traffic i encounter every day i woudl say yes tehre shoudl be at least a compulsary check on your driving ability and respose times at a cetain age

if you cant keep up with teh flow of traffic you shudlnt be on teh road

Re: To old to drive?
 

Is it not a little premature to start this debate? This tragic accident happened less than 24 hours ago and there is a strong possibility that relatives and friends of the unfortunate victims may well be reading this forum. We do not as yet know the cause of the incident and although the suggestion is the elderly driver may well have suffered a coronary arrest or something similar, it is possible that his car may have undergone serious mechanical failure. We shall have to await the results of the poice investigation and until then I would suggest that underlying speculation such as this is ill-timed and unwarrented.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I think it is too easy to fall into the trap of a knee jerk reaction like this, and generalise about the fitness for particular activities in the elderly.
Some people are a hazard at 20 because they haven't enough experience of life, and will take unacceptable risks.......I wonder if you would be suggesting this action if the driver had been a boy/girl racer....I think perhaps not.
A lot of elderly people will recognise their own failings and drive according to these weaknesses........I know a man who was 92 and still drove regularly, and safely.....his wife had Alzheimers disease and if he had not had his vehicle to get her to places then he would have been seriously inconvenienced......this man died recently and was driving fairly regularly up to the time he died.

Each case should be judged on its merits.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I have always said that when any person gets to 70, they should have to sit another test if they want to carry on driving. My Father was 82 and still driving I refused to go in the car with him, he only used the car for shopping and coming to see me, about 500 miles a year, he was stone deaf and drove around in first gear. I eventually persuaded him to stop, but he died 4 months later

Re: To old to drive?
 

Jaysay, the government are talking about 70 year olds carrying on working.......if they think that they are fit enough to work then why should they take another test?
This test......would it be free? I can see the government latching onto this as a form of making extra revenue out of the motorist.

I don't think it is right to suggest that all old people lose their faculties......some do, but some don't.
and a fifty year old is just as likely to suffer a bout of illness whist at the wheel.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I am not speculating and am aware of the full circumstances of this incident, but I realise that you are not. So we will carry on this debate when you are.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I think it should be 70 re-test, then every 5 years refresh, if you are lucky enough to get to 90+ then it should be every 2 years in my opinion.

You only need to look at all these "people" who end up wandering up the motorway the wrong way or round the round about the wrong way and it is never ( unlesss someone cares to prove me wrong ) never anyone under the age of 60.... unless its some criminal escaping the fed's.

As for the point of working up to you being 70 then fair enough but you would'nt ask the 70 yr old to do something if it was, physical or you needed a quick turn around, its natural, the older you get the slower your reactions, its just the way it is.

Just my two penith worth
Cheers

Re: To old to drive?
 

As you say Margaret some do some don't, a test would sort the wheat from the chaff, better to have people of the road than an 18 month old baby dead and ts mother fighting for her life

Re: To old to drive?
 

Personally I am and have often said I believe we ALL should be tested every 5 years for basics like eye sight, general driving, manouveres, reactions etc. The test shouldn't be more than 30 mins or so inconvienience and anyone who doesn't perfom at a certain level is pushed into a more formal test. Fail that and you are banned till you repass the driving test of that time.

Why someone who passed their test even just 20 years ago like me when roads were a lot quieter, cars were slower, safety features non existant ( ABS, Traction control etc ) can now be driving an almost supercomputer controlled 140mph family saloon car without any further tests is simply crazy.

The BIG issue is that no sane politician will suggest it as they think it would lose them votes.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I'm sure the above would not be using mobile phones, and as for lack of reaction times would probably be driving according to the speed/conditions, so might be deemed as stated, although the correct speed and driving experience counts for a great deal. Anyone can drive fast, but can they stop quickly? I am frequently overtaken when driving at 30mph in 30mph zones.
Many of my friends are fit and healthy into their late 70's.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Road traffic accidents are always a tragedy, regardless of whether the victims are children or not.......this kind of accident happens infrequently, and from the reports appears to have been a 'true accident'.
It is very easy to get into knee jerk reactions because of the emotionality of the situation.
If tests were to be applied to older drivers, then they should be free and include general health tests too......or an MOT from the persons GP stating that they are in good health.

I can see lots of drivers getting to 70 and then not taking a test, but giving up driving....isolating the older persons in question.

Re: To old to drive?
 

personally i think that after you reach retirement age you should be made to have a medical every year to deem you fit enough to drive and be made to sit a re-test every two years, at a minimal cost, i hear what your saying about the young uns but to drive slowly is just as dangerous if not more so, nothing worse than being stuck behind an old dear doing 15-20 in a 30 or 30 in a 50,

Re: To old to drive?
 

As has been said all drivers should have to take a refresher test so to speak. There are far to many people driving about ignoring the rules of the road. It always concerns me why everyody is always going on about speed, speed limits are there for a reason. Driving faster makes it harder to stop safely.

Re: To old to drive?
 

The full facts about this horrible accident have not been reported to the public as yet so I am not going to comment on this individual incident but re-testing the elderly is becoming a more frequent topic of discussion.

I know two ladies well into their nineties who are as good a driver as anyone on the roads should be but unfortunately they are in a minority. It is a fact that the majority of people's reflexes do become less sharp over time and when we are in charge of something that is potentially deadly on public highways I don't think it is entirely unjustified to suggest an arbitrary reappraisal date. My own father-in-law was a lorry driver for 45 years and yet voluntarily stopped driving at 70 because he felt that his own judgement was not as good as it had been and he was becoming a danger.

Margaret Pilkington made a valid point about isolating the elderly and I suspect that 70 may be a good five years too early but with Jaysay giving us examples like his late father perhaps it would be better to err on the side of caution in this matter?

I am not a great fan of the relentless health and safety regulations that we are subjected to but when policemen are getting a 92 page document on how to ride a bike safely perhaps attentions are not always entirely well-directed.

Re: To old to drive?
 

this...

Re: To old to drive?
 

Elderly drivers use their mode of transport as exactly that, many dont see why they should do 30 in a 30 etc, they would feel stupid getting a speeding ticket, so they stay well within the law, there are no rules that state you HAVE to do 30 in a 30 zone, and anyone who insists is both impatient and reckless in my opinion, the people that should be retested (in particular), are not the people who drive below the limit (though I think there should be a minimum for motorways), but the people who regularly exceed the limit, dont indicate lane changes or turning, use wrong lanes, cut up other drivers because they realised they were in the wrong lane etc etc, I am not saying that elderly drivers shouldnt be retested, but there are more serious issues to deal with before this. Some of these problems are made worse by police vehicle drivers, who also seem to have adopted driving without indicators whether in emergency or not. All that said, it sounds very much like nothing would have prevented the very sad events near water street.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Everyone is happy to quote the doddering old lady scenario when commenting on older drivers.......this morning I have witnessed 7 people of varying ages(but none of them appeared to be of retirement age) using mobile phones whilst driving......one of these people was driving a very large lorry whilst going around a corner.

We are all heading towards becoming an old person.......and yet we talk about these older people as though they were a sub species, of lower intellect and intelligence.

Older people are very easily isolated....and to suggest that a medical every year and re-testing every two years......this will take much planning and resourcing(not to mention the cost of adminstration...paid by whom exactly), and will intimidate and isolate older people more t han is necessary.

Can anyone tell me the last time they read of an accident of this nature?
Yet we hear of drivers who kill under the influence of drugs and alcohol, or recklessness and this is accepted. We don't ask these drivers to suspend their activities and re-take a test.
You assume that all older drivers are not fit to drive......too big a generalisation in my opinion....and it is just my opinion.

Re: To old to drive?
 

What a sound and sensible post. Well said.

Re: To old to drive?
 

It's proven that drivers over 70 have the same reaction times as somebody twice the drink drive limit. Hgv drivers have to have a medical at 45 and then every 5 years, which includes eyesight, blood pressure and heart and lung function. Car drivers over 50 should have same tests.

Re: To old to drive?
 

When research of this nature is quoted I want to ask who did the research?
What were the criteria used for testing? and who funded the research.

Having a medical would not stop accidents from happening, and it would not stop people from driving recklessly.
While reaction times of older drivers are quoted as above, older drivers are much more likely to drive within speed limits, and are less likely to contravene other road rules......older drivers, (in the main) will have more experience, and if they drive every day, will have adapted to busier roads.
You can prove anything with statistics and research.

It's not about driving recklessly, it's about identifying people with potentially life threatening diseases being behind the wheel of a one and a half tonne lump of metal.

Re: To old to drive?
 

How do we go about that then?

I've known of young men apparently fit and healthy that have keeled over and died from aneurysms What if they had been behind the wheel of a one and a half tonne lump of metal at the time this happened to them? Would it be less tragic for the accident victims and their relations to know that it was a 30 or 40 year old that had the accident?
Somehow I don't think so, accidents are just that, accidents, they happen when one set of circumstances are effected by another set of circumstances beyond peoples control.

Sadly pointing the blame at one group of motorists won't undo what has happened.:(

RoSPA : Road Safety : Advice : Driving : Older Driver Policy Statements

Re: To old to drive?
 

Less, Thank you.....that was the point I was trying(unsuccessfully, it seems) to make.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I would even dare to suggest that there are many younger drivers who are not as fit as many elderly drvers in their 60s & 70s, either physically or mentally.
Watch the idiots around you on the road, watch the Police TV shows - the majority of the ones causing problemsof one sort or another seem to be well below pensionable age.

Re: To old to drive?
 

ive been in a car accident while i was driving .. i had a fit while behind the wheel ... luckily i didnt hurt anyone other than myself i ran into a wall ... i was lucky .. i could have if i'd gone the other way .. i'd have ended up in someones house or into a car .. but because id took the snicket i went into the wall ... but i was allowed to drive .. id gone 3 years without a fit and then learned to drive and eventually passed my driving test. The DVLA had brought the 3 years clear down to 1 year without a fit .. i got my driving licence back 18 months later .. and 5 days later i had a fit .. since then i havent driven .. but will say this if i do manage to go a year without a fit .. i will reapply for my licence .. thing is am i safe to drive?

Re: To old to drive?
 

You've been driving Spugs round the bend for years Jen:rolleyes:

Re: To old to drive?
 

I can't see a problem with that at all.

I also agree with extra testing like entwisi mentioned. After a few years, once it had become an excepted part of driving no one would complain or decide not to take the tests, unless they thought they were no longer safe enough to pass them. I think the cost should be reasonable for a 1/2 hour test though, maybe £20 or something. It costs me £60+ to fill up with diesel so it would become an excepted cost of car ownership.

Maybe if the rest of the people posting against extra safe guards such as this did your job and had seen the results of car accidents and had to deal with the horrific things you deal with on a regular basis they may think differently.

Re: To old to drive?
 

another question worth asking is why with this roads terrible reputation does it not have railings down the pavement just liek it does further up on the same section of road.All teh way from teh castle pub to the junction at burnley road tehre are railings protecting a carpark and a back alley area yet no railings along the stretch which is basicaly smack center of town

Re: To old to drive?
 

Please would you give us the reference of the first sentence of your post?

Re: To old to drive?
 

it was before i even knew he existed jaysay .. i cant drive him round the bend .. its more like him driving me ..

I havent driven since May 2005 that was when i lost my licence for the second time ... i didnt become a member of accyweb till july 2005 .. :D

Re: To old to drive?
 

It feels a lot longer :p

Re: To old to drive?
 

Google 'Elderly drivers reaction times' Its in one of the many web pages on the subject.

Thank you Neil, I am sure if they did they would view things alot differently, but they are lucky enough not to so I respect their input. They think this is an isolated incident involving elderly drivers but its happening more and more, often with a fatal outcome.

Same rules as HGV licences, medical at forty five and then every five years.

Absolute rubbish, most accidents are preventable with the correct safeguards in place, it just takes something terrible to happen for people to wake up and do something about it (Stable door) thats why we can't use mobile phones whilst driving and we have to wear seat belts, people ignore these rules and people die. If I fail my medical at 45 they take my HGV licence off me, it should be the same for car drivers, its called prevention - when peoples control prevent one set of circumstances effecting another set of circumstances.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I used to work for a bloke who choked on a mint while driving. If he hadn't crashed - he'd be dead. The impact dislodged the mint.

Tragedies happen for a multitude of reasons, not just age. I agree with Ian - a repeat test every few years, and you have to pass three before being allowed into a powerful car.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Suggest you also Google;
young drivers bad driving habits

Re: To old to drive?
 

Although I did not do the job fireman does......I was a Nurse and I did see some of the results of road accidents.....they were not pretty.....but I still stand by the comments I have posted.

Neil if you put the proposed safeguards in place, there would still be accidents of this nature occasionally.

It was an accident that could not have been foreseen, or prevented....the people involved were all unfortunate victims.......I think more concentration needs to go on other issues of road safety......using mobiles whilst driving, driving under the influence, driving recklessly......all the aforementioned kill both drivers and pedestrians, but because this driver was elderly then you have the knee jerk reaction of 'let's get older drivers off the road'......OK, maybe that isn't what you are saying, but that is, in effect, what would happen when the older drivers started to get their re-test notifications through the post.
This would isolate and marginalise older drivers on the pretext that they are unsafe...... a sweeping generalisation.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Well said Margaret - have a look at the Insurance rates for older drivers at Saga - much lower rates than a 20/30/40 year old yuppie, so who has the most accidents?

Re: To old to drive?
 

same as companies that specialise in younger drivers, or ones that specialise in women drivers, so no argument to be had on that one mate !!!!

Re: To old to drive?
 

not only should there be a full medical at 70 there should also be a compulsary refresher course on not only their ability to control a car but a test to make them learn what the new regulations and rules are .There are many elderly drivers out there who dont have a clue how to deal with a mini roundabout and just zoom accross regarless of what is coming and dont have the faintest clue on how to not only drive on a motorway but how to deal with the new road markings and modern filter light systems.

young drivers are not more likely to have an accident because they are inexperienced they are more likely to have an accident driving like a knob head trying to impress their mates.

Re: To old to drive?
 

There are many safe older drivers who use motorways safely and can negotiate roundabouts using the appropriate lane discipline, they also indicate their intentions.....and thus you may say what have they to fear by being re-tested....well, actually nothing.....other than the fact that their ability to drive safely and with some confidence is being brought into question after probably many years of safe motoring....that alone will put some older drivers off.
If someone has not driven for a number of years them maybe they would need to be refreshed as to the newer regulations...like not using a mobile phone whilst driving, using seat belts, having any children or animals they are carrying secured safely and in accordance with the law....you can see infringements of these basic common sense rules every single day of the week...and I might add not by seniors.

Re: To old to drive?
 

My brother had a head on collision with an elderly man who died at the wheel before he hit my brother I think the elderly should be re-tested at 70 and the police harder on the boy racers most the time they get away with a warning. There should be compulsary extra lessons, re-tests and short term bans to the young boy/girl racers messing about on the roads.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I don't think there are many insureres who discount their rates for younger drivers......I know that some insurers do discount for women drivers, but Saga only insure those over 50 years of age(at a discounted rate).

Re: To old to drive?
 

Compare the rates is what I was suggesting - have you bothered to do that?

Re: To old to drive?
 

bring in health, drug and character tests

Re: To old to drive?
 

So what do we do? Nothing?

I agree that almost all accidents are preventable.

Re: To old to drive?
 

nobody mentioned discounted rates but whilst on that subject, saga do so because the main stream insurance companies class older drivers as a high risk, meaning higher premiums...:rolleyes: ... does that not tell its own story or you gonna carry on giving the drivel !!!!...:rolleyes:

Re: To old to drive?
 

I think that as we get older we don't notice our reactions times slowing down. The aches and pains that make it take longer to hit the brake pedal or even press it as hard as when we were younger.

Anyone he is afraid to take a driving test should seriously question why and I suspect many would be worried they would fail.

Re: To old to drive?
 

err, not quite mate,
next door neighbour, well into saga world, pays 500 quid fully comp for a Nissan Note group 3 insurance, I at the same time ( 39 YO ) paid 350 fully comp for a group 20 300bhp 4.2 V8.

so where is this lower rates for older drivers then?

You will aslo find once you get over 70 the number of companies that will even cover you reduces dramatically

Re: To old to drive?
 

Now that would get many young drivers off the road, and the elderly would be alone and safe to drive on less busy roads, many youngsters drink very heavily, and drink stuff that would bleach denim, lord knows what it does to their health, and drugs are rife, social drug taking is on the increase and I think many people have no idea how rife it actually is.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I would say that is an unjust and sweeping statement, as would a statement that all drivers over 50 aren't fit to be on the road, in both cases there are some that shouldn't be on the road however the majority drivers in both groups are sensible and fit enough to drive.

I think it would be a mistake to turn this thread into a young drivers verses old drivers, we need to weed out the bad drivers of all ages.

http://www.tiptopglobe.com/skin/smile/s8337.gifhttp://www.tiptopglobe.com/skin/smile/s6330.gifhttp://www.tiptopglobe.com/skin/smile/s1372.gif

Re: To old to drive?
 

I couldnt justify my comments without incriminating others, but your comments show me that you seem to be in the group of many I mentioned who have no idea how rife social drug taking has become, and I refer to hard drugs like cocaine, not cannabis and the like.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Nice conclusion you've just jumped to there Derek.
:)

Re: To old to drive?
 

Lot of ill-judged replies here in my humble opinion, the poor bloke concerned is barely cold.
Let's just consider how many years driving experience this chap has probably had, the fact that railings wouldn't have made a great deal of difference looking at the state of the front of the car, and also anyone can have a heart attack, at any time, chances are the poor chap was dead before the car even hit the building. Having seen the speed of a heart attack and it's effects at first hand, I really think that's the most probable explanation, he could have been 25 or 105, makes no odds. :(

Re: To old to drive?
 

In Barries post he mentioned the insurance rates...which you pointedly ignored by saying there were insurers dedicated to young drivers and women........my point was that Saga discount their rates for older drivers. In fact I don't think they insure drivers under the age of fifty...that must tell you something......and I would be very grateful if you would accord me the courtesy of not insulting my posts.
I did not insult you for your opinion. If you do not like my opinion, then don't respond to my post.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Good post Lindsay.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I know what you are saying Lindsay but I was replying in a more general sense than yesterdays accident.

We dont yet know the cause of yesterdays accident so your right it is not fair to comment yet.

Re: To old to drive?
 

what we do Neil is police ourselves....realise when we can no longer cut the mustard, whether it be due to eyesight, hearing or loss of confidence.....and also if we have elderly relatives who we consider to be a risk to themselves then we have to make them aware of their failings.(gently)

But I feel it would be a mistake to judge all older drivers by the few, and penalise the safe drivers just on age alone.

And as for accidents......these are occurences when circumstances arise that could not be prevented or foreseen......and as such are difficult to prevent.
Life is rarely black and white.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Unfortunately that does not work. That why we need laws and rules to follow.

Many people dont realise they have slowed down, or more likely refuse to admit it to themselves.

I hope I stop myself driving before I become unsafe. I am that subborn though I will probably be one of the ones who wont.

Re: To old to drive?
 

well then Neil......I will poke you on the shoulder from which ever cloud I happen to be on at the time(I fear I will have shuffled off this mortal coil by the time you need to give up driving).

Re: To old to drive?
 

You can give that idea miss, I am a non believer and the last thing I need is a ghost poking me :rolleyes: :D

Re: To old to drive?
 

you won't be a non believer by the time I have done my bit :)

Re: To old to drive?
 

Oh yes I will. If I start to see ghosts I will just blame it on the medication :D

Re: To old to drive?
 

Neil, you won't see me......but you will feel the prod....left shoulder blade, right where it hurts....but of course you will put it down to Arthritis :D......but you will know it's ME

Re: To old to drive?
 

RATES quite right he did, and i also said that there are companies that specialise in giving rates (although i didnt mention the word i must admit) to drivers in other age/gender categories too, he gave his example i gave mine, if he is over 50 and went to a company that specialised in drivers of 21 or less im sure the same rule would apply to him regarding rates..so no i did not ignore his post, your post however did, by saying that rates were discounted when infact nowhere in any post above had this been mentioned...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 786811) If you do not like my opinion, then don't respond to my post.

DITTO ....:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: To old to drive?
 

Insurance rates are not set by whim; they are the result of actuarial science. Therefore, if the insurance companies charge higher rates for drivers under the age of 25, it is because those drivers tend to have more accidents ... this is also true for the elderly. Most insurers also set rates for individual drivers based on the number of times they have made a claim ... I am 64 (never thought that when I first heard that song, that I would ever reach this age), and have never made a claim. For full coverage on my vehicle, I pay just under $500.00 a year. My insurer obviously thinks, that even in my dotage, I am a good risk. However, when I reach my three score years and ten, I will be required by MTO (Ministry of Transport, Ontario ... every province has it's own regs.) to take an annual road test.

Re: To old to drive?
 

of course insurance rates are set on a whim thats why it is always better to shop around and not stay with an insurer each year because they never give any discount unless you ring back with a lower quote

if they had to stick to a price because of statistics there would be little in variation of prices between companies yet for some reason there can be up to £900 a year difference between companies

seems whimsical to me

this so called science is not science it is merely surveys which they pick out the parts they want to include so as to be able to charge extoritionate premiums and this is why they can afford to undercut each other by such huge amounts.It all depends on which company is willing to reduce their level of greed the most

they argue that 3 points for speeding makes you a greater risk where as teh other side of that argument is that somone with 3 points is going to drive a lot more carefully so as to avoid further fines and points and therefore should have cheaper insurance not extra lol

Re: To old to drive?
 

You must be getting mixed up between someone with 3 points and someone with 9 points :rolleyes::D

Re: To old to drive?
 

There most definitely is an actuarial science, and insurance companies do base their rates on the tables produced by actuaries. That doesn't mean that they slavishly follow the tables to the exact tenth of a cent ... insurance companies are in the business of making money; so, they will charge what the customer is willing to pay. People choose a particular company based on more than price. Service is still important. And customers will stay with companies that give them good service. If this were not the case, then all would insure with the cheapest company.

By the way, is there any form of government insurance over there ... a couple of Canadian provinces have government insurance ... a driver must have basic insurance from the govt. ... it is included in the price of the plate ... insurance companies are, of course, opposed to this, as the provincial govt. will offer the lowest possible rate without haggling ... those who wish to have extra coverage, say, for example, a lower deductible, or, esp. in Saskatchewan, which still has quite a few gravel roads, insurance for the windsheild, can buy it from a private company.

Re: To old to drive?
 

lol they get even cheaper insurance because lets face it they aint gonna be driving for another 12 months at that rate lol

Re: To old to drive?
 

And govt. insurance must be good ... it's a product of the New Democratic parties .... that's Labour, old style.

Re: To old to drive?
 

no our govenment makes a law saying we have to have insurance but dosnt provide such a service and leaves us at the mercey of insurance companies who can charge what they like because the law says we have to have insurance and the only way you can reduce the cost is solely because they compete against each other and nothing else.

insurance companies shoudl be disbanded and it shoudl be put int govenment hands


£200 per year plus extra £100 for every 3 points you have on your licence

no bans except for very serious offences and a choice between points or a fine not both as it currently stands

drink driving you get banned for life

edit:

oh and while im in cookoo land people who drive their cars in our country long term would have to pay road tax like the rest of us unlike the poles for example who dont have to

Re: To old to drive?
 

they have 12 months from point of entry to tax and MOT and insure their cars mate, if you know of cars that have been here longer report to your local traffic plod who will attand to it.

Re: To old to drive?
 

It seems that Canada has a more consistent approach to insurance than UK companies, then. My last car was a beat up little Punto, a runner that cost me £500 and was cheap to fill up yet my quotes ranged from £305 fully comprehensive to £2590 third party only which even made the broker on the phone snigger.

I'm 31 and statistically in England the most likely person to have a car accident is an under-25 male in a red car in Manchester. It's vaguely amusing to hear how many insurers think that Blackburn is too near to Manchester to be able to give me a better quote.

I am not trying to get away from the original point though and whoever it was who said that we should be trying to root out ALL bad drivers was spot on. Someone else also said that you are never going to stop accidents from happening, which is correct but we can try to prevent as many as possible.

I don't see the problem with re-testing the elderly at a set point and I also agree with much tougher penalties for young drivers who are responsible for accidents that were not due to mechanical failure or a proven medical incident at the wheel.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Yes but young drivers aren't the issue here are they?

Re: To old to drive?
 

Surely they shouldn't be excluded from a thread that wants to make roads safer?

Or was the point of the thread just to blacken the name of a man involved in a tragic accident, the results and reasons for which we can only speculate as no official statement has yet been announced?
:confused:

Re: To old to drive?
 

I will continue to read what you post for two reasons
1) because it my prerogative to read any post that I choose.
2) because you are such an arbiter of standards, and I need to be aware
when you consider that I am posting 'drivel' as you put it.

Now back to the thread......The mention of discount for older drivers was the natural progression of the discussion.
I brought the subject of discount/cheaper policies for the older driver, to make the point(which you obviously failed to see), that a company specialised in the business(and businesses are formed to make a profit) of insuring older drivers at reduced rates.
This must mean that some actuary has worked out that older drivers are safer, and a better bet than younger ones, as they make fewer claims.
Fewer claims are good when you are in the insurance business, as they mean that more of the money coming into the business is profit.

I am not sure if the rates for older drivers go up when you get past 70.....as I'm not quite there yet.

I hope I have made the point clearer for you...and I will not insult your intelligence by putting smilies on the post....they mean nothing.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I wonder if you would have posted this thread had the driver been 49.
Or if the driver had been young and high on recreational drugs...but still dead.

Re: To old to drive?
 

interesting topic... im a manager for a very large haulage company and we are having this very same problem. HGV drivers have to have a medical every 5 years which say they are fit to drive. now we have had an incident where a 74 yr old driver has crased and killed a family. now what has come out of this is that a 74 yr old cant do the work of a 35 yr old, he fatigues earlier and his reaction times are a lot slower but he is legally allowed to drive the vehicle and age discrimination laws say we can't make him redundant on the grounds of age. we also have to treat him the same as everyone else as we cant discriminate against the other drivers because there older than him...so what can we do?

i do feel that driving over 70 should be banned but then how many pensioners will lose there freedom and be left at the mercy of public transport.

Re: To old to drive?
 

You make a valid point when you ask if drivers over 70 were banned then they would be at the mercy of public transport. Of course the answer is Yes, they would.....and you may say that that is Ok then as they have the free bus pass.....but this isn't always the best means of getting about.....it often means that journey times are longer and that waiting around in cold bus shelters is what you want the older person to be subjected to.
Public transport in some areas is good, but then there are areas where public transport is run purely for a profit.....does not run at certain times of the day, does not run on Bank Holidays.......so yes these older people would be isolated, or could only travel the distance that they could walk.......this would suit some people, who it appears from this thread, want older folk to sit at home and do nothing more strenous than watch daytime TV.
I think it is very harsh to judge all older drivers by age alone....not everyone is the same.

Re: To old to drive?
 

i didnt mean it that way i meant it as a drawback. many older people need there cars as the public transport just isn't good enough and like you said not all old drivers are bad drivers. there is nothing to state that this 89 yr old driver wasn't a good driver and he had a heart attack or stroke in the same way that any person could suddenly be struck by something. its a very difficult thing to judge and should be done on a case by case basis. this is just a terrible accident that couldn't of been avoided.

Re: To old to drive?
 

i agree with margaret, not all the older drivers are the same, for example, my husband turned 70 two months ago,and works part time doing a school contract for lancashire united , drives a double decker bus carrying at times round about 80 children, which you might say he should be retired by now,but he enjoys doing it. he has very strict medical every 12 months and when i say strict it really is.

Re: To old to drive?
 

when you have a medical it only checks your health at that time .. 11 months down the line .. it could be something different.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I think that a re test at a certain age, too today's standards would solve a lot of problems , to include the theory test .
How many times have you been behind a elderly person sat in the middle lane on the motorway doing 50 mph ?Me personally a few times .
It was only 2 weeks ago that i was behind a elderly lady travelling down the slip road at junction 5 joining the 65 and she was doing 25 mph , luckily the motorway was not busy God knows what the out come would have been in other circumstances.
I have always maintained that there should be something set in place to measure capability on the road at a certain age , because i know for sure I would rather know if i was a risk to myself and others , because thinking you are capable and actually being capable are two different things .

Re: To old to drive?
 

well this is a hard thing to realy talk a bout my self,because i dont drive but but i think they should get told off there doctours if they are a certain age the man what lives next door but one to me gave up driveing in is late 70s-or beginning of is 80s but i still think they should take a re test at the ages like this.

Re: To old to drive?
 

To Ossywarrior - yes I understood what you were getting at and was agreeing with you.

To Tina - that has been your experience, but that does not mean that all drivers who are elderly are like that.

My husband is nowhere near seventy, he has 45 years of driving experience, on two wheels and on four wheels, he has a clean licence, drives safely and competently.if it were any different I would be telling him that it was time to hang up the car keys. Surely I am not the only one on this planet who would do the decent, safe thing.

Many of the elderly drivers you comment on, will have been driving for something in the region of 50 years......they will have adapted to the changes in traffic and also in more complicated vehicles.
It is wrong to single out drivers purely on grounds of their age.

Re: To old to drive?
 

Not as often as I see people of all ages sat in the middle lane doing 70mph. The speed is not important, they are still causing an obstruction.

Re: To old to drive?
 

What can a Doctor do to test someone driving ability except a poor eyetest?

They can't measure reaction times or check someone is still sufficiently mobile to operate a car safely.

Re: To old to drive?
 

they send people with parkinsons for tests to test those very things so why not do at least an anual test the same for people over 70

as for heart attacks there are plenty of people out there driving after suffering a few which i think is risky to say the least.If someone has a heart attack i think they have to wait a while to drive again but after 2 or 3 heart attacks isnt it really about time to take the licence away?

Re: To old to drive?
 

Its not about blackening peoples names, it wasn't his fault this tragedy took place (and I am not speculating). And I am not saying the elderly should have to stop driving, what I am saying is that when you get to a certain age some sort of annual testing including medical should be carried out. Its about getting something done so its not my son next time crushed up against a wall. Young/bad drivers are another issue which needs addressing.

Yes I would but probably under a different heading.

Re: To old to drive?
 

sorry for slight wander ....is it possible in the UK to attend "traffic school" to get points removed for moving violations (speeding) and stop the insurance company jacking up your rate
LET'S GO TO CALIFORNIA TRAFFIC SCHOOL

Re: To old to drive?
 

Yes sometimes. If you get caught for a not too much over the limit you get fine and 3 points. Sometimes they will offer you a speed awareness course. It costs the same as the fine but you dont get the points and you don't have to declare it to your insurance.

Re: To old to drive?
 

margaret, I think there is a huge differnce between almost 70 and almost 90



debates about age.... imo 89 is too damn old to be driving a car

Its Sad for the people involved, I know somebody related....my thoughts go out to them

Re: To old to drive?
 

I agree with you Restless, 20 years ago it may have been different, but on today's roads you have to be 100% alert all the time, I refer back to my Father who I mentioned in an earlier post, he was first class driver, but when he got old he became a liability on the road, he was a danger not only to himself but to other road users

Re: To old to drive?
 

Quite right. How many of us would actually admit to ourselves when the time came that we weren't fit to drive anymore? I'm stubborn enough to realise that I'll have to be ordered out of my car and I'm probably not alone.

It's high time for a bit of legislation on the matter, we have it for everything else.

Re: To old to drive?
 

I'm hoping by teh time I reach that point we have auto guided cars that I just tell where to go :D

At teh moment I enjoy teh actof driving, once I lose that through either age, too crowded roads or whatever I'd like to be taken everywhere with as little input as possible

Re: To old to drive?
 

I admit that my driving ability is not what it was and I amend my car usage to fit.

For example - night vision - my pupils do not react as quickly as they did, so driving at night on unlit roads is an ordeal, when oncoming headlights (even dipped) temporarily blind me. - So I don't drive outside urban lit areas at night. I think you will find that many older drivers will admit to having that problem.

Another problem is the 'stiff neck'. It is possible to reverse park using mirrors only, but I find it a bit nervewrecking so don't do it. So if I know I am likely to have to do it in town, I either dont go or park and ride into town.

These sort of problems can affect all age groups, but are more prevalent in the older driver.
All drivers of all ages must acknowledge that their abilities have limits, or the alternative is mandatory testing which has been suggested here, which is likely to prevent some people from driving at all times (even when they are within their own set limits).

Re: To old to drive?
 

you already do most people tell audis where to go :):D

Re: To old to drive?
 

A Dr can do more than eyesight. I do know someone who has Alzeimers and he is still driving , yes he really is.Surely a Dr can take away the driving license or at least report his condition to the DVLA.

Re: To old to drive?
 

With glasses I have perfect vision. An optician once remarked that it was 'pilot's vision'. This 'slow pupil response' happens to some younger folk too. It is just that they won't admit it.

I agree that Altzeimers sufferers will lack the sense to recognise their own limitations.

We must bear in mind that the diagnosis of Altzheimers is a very inexact skill, and sometimes harmless eccentrics can be given that label.

said she, looking out for the men in white coats:D

Re: To old to drive?
 

I personally think that there should be more frequent tests for everyone, perhaps every ten years until the age of 60, then at 65 and 70, then every one or two years after that.

Everyone gets in to bad habits when they have been driving for a long time - do you keep your hands at the correct position, do you not cross your hands over when turning a corner, do you continually check your mirrors? People get a little lazy, complacent or over confident and a regular test would remind people how to drive properly.

I also think it would help reduce insurance premiums.

As for older people giving up when they think it's the right time. Not a chance!!!! There is no way that an older person, or anyone for that matter, will give up voluntarily, just because they think they should. Most people are in denial about aging anyway, the majority of people are not going to admit that they're too old or ill or anything else, to drive!