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-   -   Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/brown-asks-voters-to-give-labour-a-second-look-51914.html)

Acrylic-bob 21-02-2010 15:22
Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Ok, here is a very partial list of Labour achievements over the past thirteen years...

Ballot Boxes are interfered with
Voting registers go missing
The Police can kill innocent people and get away with it
The state can kill people and get away with it
You can be put in prison indefinitely on the word of a politician
The State can torture people
Your children are monitored at School by Political Officers
Their behaviour is logged on a State database for their entire lives
Your innocent fingerprints, iris scans and biometrics are held by the State
You do not have the right to remain silent
You are watched on 4 million CCTV cameras
You may not photograph the Police
You do not have the right to protest peacefully
Curfews exist for entire communities
Your travel movements are logged and monitored
Who you vote for is logged and monitored
Your shopping habits are studied and logged by the State
Your emails and telephone conversations are recorded by the State
Your passport can be withdrawn at the whim of the State
Government agencies can use lie detector tests on you.

- £22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
- 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
- The longest national tax code in the world
- 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
- Gun crime up 57%
- Violent crime up 70%
- The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
- The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
- The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
- The only G7 country with no growth this year
- One in six young people neither earning nor learning
- 5 million people on out-of-work benefits
- Missing the target of halving child poverty...
- Child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
- Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
- Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
- Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
- Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
- Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
- The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
- Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
- Prisoners released without serving their sentences
- Foreign prisoners released and never deported
- 7 million people without an NHS dentist
- Small business taxes going up
- Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
- Tax rises for working people set for after the election
- The 10p tax rate abolished
- The ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
- Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
- Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
- Profitable post offices closed against their will
- One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
- The ‘Golden Rule’ on borrowing abandoned because it didn’t fit
- Police inspectors in 10 Downing Street
- Dossiers that were dodgy
- Mandelson resigning the first time
- Mandelson resigning the second time
- Mandelson coming back for a third time
- Bad news buried
- Personal details lost
- An election bottled
- A referendum denied.


Pretty impressive. The question that occurs to me is, if Graham is an honorable man, and I see no reason to believe that he is not, how can he justify asking us to vote for five more years of the same and worse? And for the other candidates, whenever they are chosen, what are you and the party you represent going to do about any of the items on the above list?

Margaret Pilkington 21-02-2010 15:27
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Your children can be stolen from you on the most flimsy grounds(and you cannot appeal or complain/make the case public)......adopted by people you do not approve of or align yourself to.

The current government have been more interested in social engineering, for their own ends, than protecting the rights of the populace.

Acrylic-bob 21-02-2010 15:31
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Oh there is tons more that could be added to the list and the opposition and the Lib Dems have been complicit in most of it.

Margaret Pilkington 21-02-2010 15:34
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
and that is why it makes it very difficult to choose someone who you think will best represent the needs of the area.......I think I will be voting with a pin.

Less 21-02-2010 15:37
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 790198)
I think I will be voting with a pin.
Voodoo?

Acrylic-bob 21-02-2010 15:42
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Their hides are so thick I doubt that a pin-prick will even register.

jaysay 21-02-2010 15:53
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 790202)
Their hides are so thick I doubt that a pin-prick will even register.
It would if fired by a cannon:rolleyes:

g jones 21-02-2010 15:58
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
In reply to Acrylic Bob.

It's not a perfect world. However much of the list is quite a degree away from reality. Was 1984 a police state or an attempt to keep the rule of law?

I think most people will attempt to make a balanced judgement somewhere between the more favourable and less favourable attributes, then compare the opposition by comparison.

There's a book 300+ Labour gains (by USDAW). If you have read it, you'd think Labour have been the best Government... ever. It all depends on which window you choose to look through as to what you see.

Acrylic-bob 21-02-2010 16:27
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Correct me if I am wrong Graham, but wasn't '1984' a work of fiction? And I thought that Orwell said that he wrote it to point out the dangers of Communism and Totalitarianism. How odd that you should choose this work in support of your argument.

I am sure voters are more than capable of judging the activities of New Labour over the past thirteen years, but the point is that Labour have been in government and the opposition is ...well...the opposition, who are by definition not in government. So I fail to see how any sort of meaningful comparison can be made between the two, since one would not be comparing like with like.

My question did not ask how you expected voters to understand recent history but how you justified recent history and hoped to persuade voters to accept another five years of the same administration.

Acrylic-bob 21-02-2010 16:50
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
"It all depends on which window you choose to look through as to what you see."

I do hope you are not intending to use that argument when you are out canvassing or I can see you qualifying for a frequent user pass at the A&E department of our local PFI funded Hospital, which, by the way, we will be paying through the nose for, for the next quarter of a century.

Wynonie Harris 21-02-2010 17:42
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 790226)
Correct me if I am wrong Graham, but wasn't '1984' a work of fiction? And I thought that Orwell said that he wrote it to point out the dangers of Communism and Totalitarianism. How odd that you should choose this work in support of your argument.
Graham's talking about the miners' strike and the Thatcher government's reaction to it, A-B.

Stumped 21-02-2010 18:26
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Highlighted by the current debacle over MP's expenses, none of the current bunch appear capable of managing the affairs of our lost nation. Nothing short of a revolution will alter the course that has been chosen for us by politicians whose ambitions extend no further than their personal bank accounts. I fear that the good ship Brittania is heading for the same fate as the Titanic, thanks, in particular, to a hopelessly inadequate captain and crew.

Acrylic-bob 21-02-2010 18:28
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Oh Pur-lease, have we not moved on from this yet? I suppose that Graham intends arguing that Selling off the gold reserves at the bottom of the market was somehow the fault of Margaret Thatcher, not to mention her underhanded involvement in the Great British Pensions raid. You know it wouldn't surprise me to discover that she also had a hand in the Boer War too.

Tealeaf 21-02-2010 18:33
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
You need to be very careful what you write on here, A-B - because if you're not, you may get a 'big clunking fist' knocking on your front door. A few years ago - when Tony handed over to Gordon - relatively few people understood exactly what the former was referring to in respect to the beheaviour of the latter. Most simply interpreted it as a man not to be trifled with by the political opposition.

As of today, the public now know different about the Queen's First Minister; while some of his sycophants may well seek to deny the charges laid out in the press, it now appears that this evening an anti-bullying group has revealed that no less than three permanent Downing Street staff have sought counselling as a result of Brown's beheaviour towards them. This really is frightening stuff, because as well as having an idiot in charge of government for the last few years, we also have a psychopathic megalomaniac.

Ken Moss 21-02-2010 18:55
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 790187)
The question that occurs to me is, if Graham is an honorable man, and I see no reason to believe that he is not, how can he justify asking us to vote for five more years of the same and worse? And for the other candidates, whenever they are chosen, what are you and the party you represent going to do about any of the items on the above list?
It's an interesting list and there is some vein of truth in it but, as Graham has pointed out, it is all a matter of how things are looked at.

As I have said before, look to the man rather than the badge. On the voting list who is the best person for the job? Would you vote for someone who you don't really believe in as a matter of principle? On a local level who controls your town or borough and are they giving you what you want?

In Hyndburn, even Tory supporters have named Graham as the best candidate.

Acrylic-bob 21-02-2010 19:47
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 790295)
it is all a matter of how things are looked at.

Oh, I see. It's all a matter of how you look at things. So, when Tony Blair misled Parliament and Lied to the nation that wasn't bare faced dishonesty, it was him not wanting to discomfort us with unecessary detail. Well I feel so much better about that. And there was I suspecting that all those lives had been lost for no good reason. Really, how silly of me. Now that I have my New Labour glasses on I can see that we are all heading into a rosy future and this truly is the best of all possible worlds. Oh I am really looking forward to Our Dear Leader's Victory in the coming election and then we will all be able to put this unpleasantness behind us.

You may think that this is ridiculous. I do. Platitudes do not convince and are no substitute for honesty. And the certain path to the political wilderness lies in believing your own propoganda.

Benipete 21-02-2010 19:53
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
:hehetable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tealeaf (Post 790283)
You need to be very careful what you write on here, A-B - because if you're not, you may get a 'big clunking fist' knocking on your front door. A few years ago - when Tony handed over to Gordon - relatively few people understood exactly what the former was referring to in respect to the beheaviour of the latter. Most simply interpreted it as a man not to be trifled with by the political opposition.

As of today, the public now know different about the Queen's First Minister; while some of his sycophants may well seek to deny the charges laid out in the press, it now appears that this evening an anti-bullying group has revealed that no less than three permanent Downing Street staff have sought counselling as a result of Brown's beheaviour towards them. This really is frightening stuff, because as well as having an idiot in charge of government for the last few years, we also have a psychopathic megalomaniac.
I believe he has to attend two or three industrial tribunals in connection with his staff.Just hope he doesn't give evidence in writing,We could be here for years:hehetable

Ken Moss 21-02-2010 19:55
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Perhaps I should have said it's how the picture is painted. Some shocking mistakes have been made in the past by politicians across all parties but it isn't quite as black and white as one party is good and the other is bad.

Ignore the media image of each party and look to your local candidates. Pick the best person for the job and vote for them, regardless of what colour flag they're waving.

Taggy 21-02-2010 20:11
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790210)
It would if fired by a cannon:rolleyes:
Or an ex Vicar!!!:D:D:D


Its such a pity "Honest" Bob Maxwell aint still around to lead us to the promissed land!! Lol!

Best Regards - Taggy

Benipete 21-02-2010 20:29
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 790309)
Perhaps I should have said it's how the picture is painted. Some shocking mistakes have been made in the past by politicians across all parties but it isn't quite as black and white as one party is good and the other is bad.

Ignore the media image of each party and look to your local candidates. Pick the best person for the job and vote for them, regardless of what colour flag they're waving.
In your case would it be a white one?:D

accyman 21-02-2010 20:48
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 790187)
Ok, here is a very partial list of Labour achievements over the past thirteen years...

Ballot Boxes are interfered with
Voting registers go missing
The Police can kill innocent people and get away with it
The state can kill people and get away with it
You can be put in prison indefinitely on the word of a politician
The State can torture people
Your children are monitored at School by Political Officers
Their behaviour is logged on a State database for their entire lives
Your innocent fingerprints, iris scans and biometrics are held by the State
You do not have the right to remain silent
You are watched on 4 million CCTV cameras
You may not photograph the Police
You do not have the right to protest peacefully
Curfews exist for entire communities
Your travel movements are logged and monitored
Who you vote for is logged and monitored
Your shopping habits are studied and logged by the State
Your emails and telephone conversations are recorded by the State
Your passport can be withdrawn at the whim of the State
Government agencies can use lie detector tests on you.

- £22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
- 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
- The longest national tax code in the world
- 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
- Gun crime up 57%
- Violent crime up 70%
- The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
- The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
- The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
- The only G7 country with no growth this year
- One in six young people neither earning nor learning
- 5 million people on out-of-work benefits
- Missing the target of halving child poverty...
- Child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
- Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
- Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
- Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
- Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
- Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
- The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
- Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
- Prisoners released without serving their sentences
- Foreign prisoners released and never deported
- 7 million people without an NHS dentist
- Small business taxes going up
- Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
- Tax rises for working people set for after the election
- The 10p tax rate abolished
- The ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
- Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
- Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
- Profitable post offices closed against their will
- One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
- The ‘Golden Rule’ on borrowing abandoned because it didn’t fit
- Police inspectors in 10 Downing Street
- Dossiers that were dodgy
- Mandelson resigning the first time
- Mandelson resigning the second time
- Mandelson coming back for a third time
- Bad news buried
- Personal details lost
- An election bottled
- A referendum denied.
wow what a list im sure cameron if he wins will set to work straight reversing things
.
NOT :rolleyes:

Margaret Pilkington 21-02-2010 20:53
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Winning the next election will be a poison chalice for who-ever gets in.
It is going to be the devils own job to put right what successive governments have got wrong in the past........and I fear that it is going to be impossible to reverse some of the changes that have been made.
Personally, I am sick of the points scoring attitude of political parties....and also of the name calling.
I wish that who ever wins could just get down to the business of getting this country up on its feet again....but I am not holding my breath, I don't see anyone who is capable enough to do the job.

cashman 21-02-2010 21:04
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 790335)
Winning the next election will be a poison chalice for who-ever gets in.
It is going to be the devils own job to put right what successive governments have got wrong in the past........and I fear that it is going to be impossible to reverse some of the changes that have been made.
Personally, I am sick of the points scoring attitude of political parties....and also of the name calling.
I wish that who ever wins could just get down to the business of getting this country up on its feet again....but I am not holding my breath, I don't see anyone who is capable enough to do the job.
yeh got it in one margaret.

Neil 21-02-2010 21:15
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 790309)
Ignore the media image of each party and look to your local candidates. Pick the best person for the job and vote for them, regardless of what colour flag they're waving.
What a load of rubbish that idea is.

Ken Moss 21-02-2010 21:21
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 790344)
What a load of rubbish that idea is.
Picking the best person to do a job is a BAD idea? That's a truly amazing reply, I can only assume you're being sarcastic.

On that logic, people who view David Cameron as being the best man to dig Great Britain out of the mire should vote Labour and vice versa.

lancsdave 21-02-2010 21:24
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 790335)
Personally, I am sick of the points scoring attitude of political parties....and also of the name calling.
Just about sums politics up for me. This thread is a prime example of it. Is it a Tory telling us what they are going to do.. No it's a Tory telling us how bad the others are. No wonder people in this country are sick to the back teeth of them all. :mad:

Stumped 21-02-2010 21:53
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
The next election will almost certainly be overseered by the media who, up to press (if you'll pardon the pun) have proved themselves to be as adept as politicians at stretching the truth. I align my opinion with programs like The X-Factor, Britains Got Talent and Strictly Come Dancing where those who received the most criticism from the judges received the higher viewers vote. Talk about the lunatics running the asylum!

There again, it would be difficult to imagine a worse scenario than what we have now!

garinda 21-02-2010 23:00
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 790295)
As I have said before, look to the man rather than the badge.
The vast majority of people are sick and fed up of all the badges, full stop.

Be they red, blue, or orange.

Neil 21-02-2010 23:08
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 790346)
Picking the best person to do a job is a BAD idea? That's a truly amazing reply, I can only assume you're being sarcastic.

So you think Graham Jones is the best person to be our MP.
Would you still vote for him if he switched to the BNP?



So now tell me if it is the person, the party or both that are important?

.

SamF 22-02-2010 08:58
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
All parties are as corrupt as each other only a fool would think otherwise. Revolution.

jaysay 22-02-2010 09:03
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 790295)
It's an interesting list and there is some vein of truth in it but, as Graham has pointed out, it is all a matter of how things are looked at.

As I have said before, look to the man rather than the badge. On the voting list who is the best person for the job? Would you vote for someone who you don't really believe in as a matter of principle? On a local level who controls your town or borough and are they giving you what you want?

In Hyndburn, even Tory supporters have named Graham as the best candidate.
Only by the fact that we are not being allowed to select our own

jaysay 22-02-2010 09:06
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 790329)
wow what a list im sure cameron if he wins will set to work straight reversing things
.
NOT :rolleyes:
What in the same way the Tony went about reversing everything don't by the Thatcher Government;)

Less 22-02-2010 09:20
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790433)
Only by the fact that we are not being allowed to select our own
Quite right that sort of thing should only be done by the grown ups.
:rolleyes:

accyman 22-02-2010 09:32
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790434)
What in the same way the Tony went about reversing everything don't by the Thatcher Government;)
exactly but then again tony blair was a bloody tory he may as well have been one of thatchers offspring

new labour my arse they should have been called blue labour :rolleyes:

until we get a more credible 3rd party to choose from were stuck with teh same shower of sheet that are no better than each other

teh only alternatives at the moment are a bunch of facists and a bunch of do gooder cretins with an even looser grip on reality than the BNP :(

like iv said before its not a matter of choosing who you think is fit to run the country because none of them are its a matter of choosing whos going to screw you over the least

jaysay 22-02-2010 10:19
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 790441)
exactly but then again tony blair was a bloody tory he may as well have been one of thatchers offspring

new labour my arse they should have been called blue labour :rolleyes:

until we get a more credible 3rd party to choose from were stuck with the same shower of sheet that are no better than each other

the only alternatives at the moment are a bunch of fascists and a bunch of do gooder cretins with an even looser grip on reality than the BNP :(

like iv said before its not a matter of choosing who you think is fit to run the country because none of them are its a matter of choosing who's going to screw you over the least
New Labour are all you say they are but were readily endorsed by the locals when they thought Labour would become electable, now they're jumping through hoops distancing themselves form Gordon and chums, the only one I know on here, that didn't ditch all their principals is cashy, he treats New Labour with the contempt they so richly deserve

cashman 22-02-2010 10:23
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790463)
New Labour are all you say they are but were readily endorsed by the locals when they thought Labour would become electable, now they're jumping through hoops distancing themselves form Gordon and chums, the only one I know on here, that didn't ditch all their principals is cashy, he treats New Labour with the contempt they so richly deserve
Perhaps you will now do the same wi your lot?

garinda 22-02-2010 10:24
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790463)
New Labour are all you say they are but were readily endorsed by the locals when they thought Labour would become electable, now they're jumping through hoops distancing themselves form Gordon and chums, the only one I know on here, that didn't ditch all their principals is cashy, he treats New Labour with the contempt they so richly deserve
Do you mean like you embraced the new improved 'hug-a-hoodie' Tory-Lites, until they didn't listen to the wants of the local party?

:rolleyes:

Less 22-02-2010 10:55
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 790466)
Do you mean like you embraced the new improved 'hug-a-hoodie' Tory-Lites, until they didn't listen to the wants of the local party?

:rolleyes:
He has to, it's in the rules, anything else would lead to a free thinking party which might demand to select local Candidates for the coming election and that road leads to anarchy!
:)

Whatever the party, if their thinking is, we will welcome you as a valued member, keep paying your sub's, but don't expect when it comes to thinking locally you will have freedom of choice you peasant.

I wouldn't want to join.
:p

jaysay 22-02-2010 11:08
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 790466)
Do you mean like you embraced the new improved 'hug-a-hoodie' Tory-Lites, until they didn't listen to the wants of the local party?

:rolleyes:
I still hold my Conservative beliefs, but when the party stops listening to its grass roots, its time to step back, the principles haven't changed, just the art of listening to people who know whats best for their own area to succeed, unlike Labour who ditched all their socialist principals on the altar of electability, running round singing things can only get better, well £1 Trillion in debt doesn't seem like better to me, given the fact they inherited the best economic prospects of any incoming government in history;)

garinda 22-02-2010 11:19
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Waitress: Would you like to order, sir?
Thatcher: Yes. I will have the steak.
Waitress: How would you like it?
Thatcher: Oh, raw, please.
Waitress: And what about the Vegetables?
Thatcher: Oh, they'll [The Cabinet] have the same as me!

It's a good job there wasn't a bullying helpline in the past.

No one else would have been able to get through.

:rolleyes::p:D

Less 22-02-2010 11:50
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Now I like fairy stories which is why I could spend all day listening to Rindy.

However, the simplistic view of politics that I have is this:-

Labour Candidate extremely far left but local 'v' Jay's best mate also local.

I think the lefty would get my vote.


Labour Candidate extremely far left but local 'v' Jay's Party bloke a stranger.

I think the lefty would get my vote.

Labour Candidate extremely far left but a stranger 'v' Jay's best mate local.

I think Jay's best mate would get my vote.

Now this is the fairy tale part bare with me, please.

Labour Candidate extremely far left but a stranger 'v' Jay's Party bloke a stranger.

I actually think the Lib Dem', (local), would get my vote, (best chance of them winning around here in years).

You see, the reason for this is, whatever the party, I know in my heart of hearts I want to be represented by someone that suffers the same kind of in-breeding as I and the rest of us locals do, at least no matter how badly they represent us in London they still have to live around here with the rest of us, not go scurrying off to some Chelsea Flat never to be seen again.:D

yerself 22-02-2010 12:02
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Waitress: Would you like to order, sir?
Thatcher: Yes. I will have the steak.
Waitress: How would you like it?
Thatcher: Oh, raw, please.
Waitress: And what about the Vegetables?
Thatcher: Oh, they'll [The Cabinet] have the same as me!
Someone else saw the clip from 'Spitting Image' on Andrew Marr's programme last week.:)

Stumped 22-02-2010 17:55
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 790481)
Now I like fairy stories which is why I could spend all day listening to Rindy.

However, the simplistic view of politics that I have is this:-

Labour Candidate extremely far left but local 'v' Jay's best mate also local.

I think the lefty would get my vote.


Labour Candidate extremely far left but local 'v' Jay's Party bloke a stranger.

I think the lefty would get my vote.

Labour Candidate extremely far left but a stranger 'v' Jay's best mate local.

I think Jay's best mate would get my vote.

Now this is the fairy tale part bare with me, please.

Labour Candidate extremely far left but a stranger 'v' Jay's Party bloke a stranger.

I actually think the Lib Dem', (local), would get my vote, (best chance of them winning around here in years).

You see, the reason for this is, whatever the party, I know in my heart of hearts I want to be represented by someone that suffers the same kind of in-breeding as I and the rest of us locals do, at least no matter how badly they represent us in London they still have to live around here with the rest of us, not go scurrying off to some Chelsea Flat never to be seen again.:D
I'm actually agreeing you on this one, Less. I once declared that I'd rather be kneecapped than vote Labour - and I still hold to that view. However Britcliffe's bunch have proved themselves more inept than the outfit they replaced. Short of looking to some anonymous independent candidate, I reckon the Lib/Dems might just be the party to make a better fist of it come the local elections. As for the main event, reckon I'll give it a miss once again.

Less 23-02-2010 00:05
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 790554)
I'm actually agreeing you on this one, Less.
Although it is allowed, it doesn't make interesting reading for the rest of the world if we get into the habit of agreeing with each other on here.
:D

jaysay 23-02-2010 09:29
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 790554)
I'm actually agreeing you on this one, Less. I once declared that I'd rather be kneecapped than vote Labour - and I still hold to that view. However Britcliffe bunch have proved themselves more inept than the outfit they replaced. Short of looking to some anonymous independent candidate, I reckon the Lib/Dems might just be the party to make a better fist of it come the local elections. As for the main event, reckon I'll give it a miss once again.
If that's the case why have Britcliffe's bunch been in control for 10 of the last 11 years, even with Labour having Gods gift to Hyndburn as their leader:rolleyes: It took the people of Hyndburn two election to turn a 44 Labour 3 Conservative council into a Conservative Controlled council

g jones 23-02-2010 12:00
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790806)
If that's the case why have Britcliffe's bunch been in control for 10 of the last 11 years, even with Labour having Gods gift to Hyndburn as their leader:rolleyes: It took the people of Hyndburn two election to turn a 44 Labour 3 Conservative council into a Conservative Controlled council
In 2000 you 31 Labour had 16.
In 2007 you had 20 Labour 15
In 2010 you have 18 Labour 12

Voters are unsure but prefer a Conservative Council. That's providing you accept people do vote on local issues at local elections.

Less 23-02-2010 14:13
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 790853)
In 2000 you 31 Labour had 16.
In 2007 you had 20 Labour 15
In 2010 you have 18 Labour 12

Voters are unsure but prefer a Conservative Council. That's providing you accept people do vote on local issues at local elections.
Who got the rest?

Or have we shrunk?

Let's not get too bogged down in I'll issue these figures now you show me yours, Labour wants a second look from we, the Electorate, so far our tame Tory has offered nothing, instead of joining him in irrelevance prove your party worthwhile, we want somebody to lead us headless chickens & so far nothing!

jaysay 23-02-2010 14:44
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 790905)
Who got the rest?

Or have we shrunk?

Let's not get too bogged down in I'll issue these figures now you show me yours, Labour wants a second look from we, the Electorate, so far our tame Tory has offered nothing, instead of joining him in irrelevance prove your party worthwhile, we want somebody to lead us headless chickens & so far nothing!
The council was reduced in 2002 from 47 to 35 Less

jaysay 23-02-2010 14:47
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 790853)
In 2000 you 31 Labour had 16.
In 2007 you had 20 Labour 15
In 2010 you have 18 Labour 12

Voters are unsure but prefer a Conservative Council. That's providing you accept people do vote on local issues at local elections.
I've always thought people vote on local issues at local elections, and have never heard anything to change my mind

Less 23-02-2010 14:52
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790924)
The council was reduced in 2002 from 47 to 35 Less
Thank you,
erm' (could somebody confirm those figures, but do it quietly, I don't want him to know I'm double checking).
:cool:

Margaret Pilkington 23-02-2010 15:10
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
I'm not sure that the electorate do vote on local issues in Local elections.......I think that many just follow the political banner and vote for who they were brought up to believe in.
And in General elections I am fairly sure that the same people vote in a similar way, rather than thinking about who would deal with local issues in the best and most efficient way.
I think that many of the electorate have become apathetic about both local and National issues, because in the main, they feel that their voices are unheard....or if they are heard, then they are not listened to.

This apathy has been compounded by the very fact that so many politicians seem to live in another world......Like that buffoon Nicholas Winterton......they are so far removed from the real world being experienced by their constituents.

g jones 23-02-2010 15:16
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
In Hyndburn we need to sort out welfare and employment issues, chronic housing/planning issues. We need to stop pandering to private sector because all it delivers is poorly built little shoe box communities, all on top of each other with no quality of life built in. Recreation, open space, community facilities. We need to promote community and end/reverse the Thatcherite 'there is no such thing as society'.

We need to use taxation to invest in transport, infrastructure and manufacturing/business (as opposed to cutting taxation for the south). The Todmorden curve. Making sure not just passenger network but that we are connected for rail freight.

Promote East Lancs as an industrial/manufacturing region as well as a attractive part of the country to visit or live. Keep investing heavily in education and training but rather than just younger people, we need to target everyone. Thatcher's devastation hasn't gone away and many 40 something pluses feel left behind.

We need to move away from individualism and consumerism.

We need to have a grass roots approach to decision making. As Tower Block of Commons shows, multi-millionaires business people and easy street university graduates, all molly coddled with little or no idea how real people live their lives.

We need a big change that accepts the wishes of local people/communities.

Free NHS. Let's bring back eye and dental care. Free higher education. Cancel Trident and invest the money in counter terrorism. Steady withdrawal from active front line combat. A cautious approach to NATO expansion (unlike Cameron). Stay out of the Euro. Start rebuilding Council Houses with shared equity, owner occupation and rental in proportion. Make private sector builders work with local communities on design and build.

Tough regulation against private sector residential letting (private landlords), delegated to residents/communities bypassing government and local government?

Tougher sentences. National Service as an early intervention within the criminal justice system.

Standards for all developments focusing on energy conservation/efficiency. Look to move from a national grid to local grids, local supplies of electricity/energy.

Promote unions on boards like in Germany and promote business models with collective ownership/co-operative ownership.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone. Early intervention in a child's upbringing where it's progress/health/welfare is compromised. Children come first, not poor parents. Reform welfare to reward and credit work.

Re-nationalisation of the railways (at the end of current leases) and a nationalised bank. Possible re-nationalisation of failing Telecoms. National investment in (as the Libs propose) docks/old skilled areas/green industries.

Make taxation progressive and close the gap between rich and poor. Close loopholes for tax evasion.

An end to irresponsible media, end to libel/claims culture (no win no fee)

Win the argument for government bonds rather than PFI.

The list goes on... I accept this is a costly wish list (and more a sense of direction) and in 1997 we were left with £hundreds of billions of unpaid bills in the bottom drawer (hospitals, schools, police). It will take a long time to reverse the problems caused in the 80's and 90's.

jaysay 23-02-2010 15:25
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 790940)
I'm not sure that the electorate do vote on local issues in Local elections.......I think that many just follow the political banner and vote for who they were brought up to believe in.
And in General elections I am fairly sure that the same people vote in a similar way, rather than thinking about who would deal with local issues in the best and most efficient way.
I think that many of the electorate have become apathetic about both local and National issues, because in the main, they feel that their voices are unheard....or if they are heard, then they are not listened to.

This apathy has been compounded by the very fact that so many politicians seem to live in another world......Like that buffoon Nicholas Winterton......they are so far removed from the real world being experienced by their constituents.
I studied voting patterns in Ossy over many years Margaret, an although some do vote on party lines, come-what-may, others certainly don't, that's the reason Britcliffe has never even come close to losing his St Andrews ward seat since he first won it in 1983, people vote for Peter not for Party, same with Brian Walmsley, both their roots are in Ossy, and that stands for a lot in local politics

Neil 23-02-2010 15:40
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 790944)
In Hyndburn we need to sort out welfare and employment issues.................
The list goes on... I accept this is a costly wish list (and more a sense of direction) and in 1997 we were left with £hundreds of billions of unpaid bills in the bottom drawer (hospitals, schools, police). It will take a long time to reverse the problems caused in the 80's and 90's.
How do you intend to pay for all that Graham.
The Country is already massively in debt.
Having a wish list is great but how do you intend to make it a reality?

Margaret Pilkington 23-02-2010 17:25
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790948)
I studied voting patterns in Ossy over many years Margaret, an although some do vote on party lines, come-what-may, others certainly don't, that's the reason Britcliffe has never even come close to losing his St Andrews ward seat since he first won it in 1983, people vote for Peter not for Party, same with Brian Walmsley, both their roots are in Ossy, and that stands for a lot in local politics
Yes, you are right Jaysay...people do also vote for personalities regardless of whether they are the right person for the job.....and that is as bad as voting purely on the party banner......no, it is worse.
These voters do not look at the issues and use their cognitive thought processes to come up with a vote for the appropriate candidate....they vote with their emotions.......and communities pay the price for this.

I have no research which backs up what I say, my views are based on anecdotal evidence.

Stumped 23-02-2010 17:43
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 790806)
If that's the case why have Britcliffe's bunch been in control for 10 of the last 11 years, even with Labour having Gods gift to Hyndburn as their leader:rolleyes: It took the people of Hyndburn two election to turn a 44 Labour 3 Conservative council into a Conservative Controlled council
Maybe voter apathy is playing a larger part today than it ever did in the past? We can argue till doomsday over the rights and wrongs of any particular administration, but at the end of the day - particularly given today's benefits for all environment - people tend to vote for what they can squeeze out of the system whilst offering little or nothing in return.

Stumped 23-02-2010 17:46
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 790944)
In Hyndburn we need to sort out welfare and employment issues, chronic housing/planning issues. We need to stop pandering to private sector because all it delivers is poorly built little shoe box communities, all on top of each other with no quality of life built in. Recreation, open space, community facilities. We need to promote community and end/reverse the Thatcherite 'there is no such thing as society'.

We need to use taxation to invest in transport, infrastructure and manufacturing/business (as opposed to cutting taxation for the south). The Todmorden curve. Making sure not just passenger network but that we are connected for rail freight.

Promote East Lancs as an industrial/manufacturing region as well as a attractive part of the country to visit or live. Keep investing heavily in education and training but rather than just younger people, we need to target everyone. Thatcher's devastation hasn't gone away and many 40 something pluses feel left behind.

We need to move away from individualism and consumerism.

We need to have a grass roots approach to decision making. As Tower Block of Commons shows, multi-millionaires business people and easy street university graduates, all molly coddled with little or no idea how real people live their lives.

We need a big change that accepts the wishes of local people/communities.

Free NHS. Let's bring back eye and dental care. Free higher education. Cancel Trident and invest the money in counter terrorism. Steady withdrawal from active front line combat. A cautious approach to NATO expansion (unlike Cameron). Stay out of the Euro. Start rebuilding Council Houses with shared equity, owner occupation and rental in proportion. Make private sector builders work with local communities on design and build.

Tough regulation against private sector residential letting (private landlords), delegated to residents/communities bypassing government and local government?

Tougher sentences. National Service as an early intervention within the criminal justice system.

Standards for all developments focusing on energy conservation/efficiency. Look to move from a national grid to local grids, local supplies of electricity/energy.

Promote unions on boards like in Germany and promote business models with collective ownership/co-operative ownership.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone. Early intervention in a child's upbringing where it's progress/health/welfare is compromised. Children come first, not poor parents. Reform welfare to reward and credit work.

Re-nationalisation of the railways (at the end of current leases) and a nationalised bank. Possible re-nationalisation of failing Telecoms. National investment in (as the Libs propose) docks/old skilled areas/green industries.

Make taxation progressive and close the gap between rich and poor. Close loopholes for tax evasion.

An end to irresponsible media, end to libel/claims culture (no win no fee)

Win the argument for government bonds rather than PFI.

The list goes on... I accept this is a costly wish list (and more a sense of direction) and in 1997 we were left with £hundreds of billions of unpaid bills in the bottom drawer (hospitals, schools, police). It will take a long time to reverse the problems caused in the 80's and 90's.
Have you sent your wish list to Santa Clause yet, Graham?

g jones 23-02-2010 19:32
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 791012)
Have you sent your wish list to Santa Clause yet, Graham?
No I haven't!

The easy answer was nothing because we can't afford. I answered the question as if it were a wish list to give a truer answer of the things I believe in or a sense of direction anyway.

Council Housing for example is something we may be able to do (locally). However there are significant financial, legislative and managerial problems that are hurdles that may make them unfeasible to build.

Hopes and reality.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone.
I meant by this that parents would have a better opportunity to find work.

Mancie 23-02-2010 20:17
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 790187)
Ok, here is a very partial list of Labour achievements over the past thirteen years...

Ballot Boxes are interfered with
Voting registers go missing
The Police can kill innocent people and get away with it
The state can kill people and get away with it
You can be put in prison indefinitely on the word of a politician
The State can torture people
Your children are monitored at School by Political Officers
Their behaviour is logged on a State database for their entire lives
Your innocent fingerprints, iris scans and biometrics are held by the State
You do not have the right to remain silent
You are watched on 4 million CCTV cameras
You may not photograph the Police
You do not have the right to protest peacefully
Curfews exist for entire communities
Your travel movements are logged and monitored
Who you vote for is logged and monitored
Your shopping habits are studied and logged by the State
Your emails and telephone conversations are recorded by the State
Your passport can be withdrawn at the whim of the State
Government agencies can use lie detector tests on you.

- £22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
- 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
- The longest national tax code in the world
- 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
- Gun crime up 57%
- Violent crime up 70%
- The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
- The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
- The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
- The only G7 country with no growth this year
- One in six young people neither earning nor learning
- 5 million people on out-of-work benefits
- Missing the target of halving child poverty...
- Child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
- Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
- Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
- Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
- Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
- Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
- The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
- Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
- Prisoners released without serving their sentences
- Foreign prisoners released and never deported
- 7 million people without an NHS dentist
- Small business taxes going up
- Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
- Tax rises for working people set for after the election
- The 10p tax rate abolished
- The ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
- Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
- Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
- Profitable post offices closed against their will
- One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
- The ‘Golden Rule’ on borrowing abandoned because it didn’t fit
- Police inspectors in 10 Downing Street
- Dossiers that were dodgy
- Mandelson resigning the first time
- Mandelson resigning the second time
- Mandelson coming back for a third time
- Bad news buried
- Personal details lost
- An election bottled
- A referendum denied.


Pretty impressive. The question that occurs to me is, if Graham is an honorable man, and I see no reason to believe that he is not, how can he justify asking us to vote for five more years of the same and worse? And for the other candidates, whenever they are chosen, what are you and the party you represent going to do about any of the items on the above list?
great post "Bobby Blue"... and very impartial..must have taken you some time to compose.. or did you just copy it from here?..
Labours achievements during the last 13 years. Can you add to them? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

cashman 23-02-2010 20:32
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 791111)
great post "Bobby Blue"... and very impartial..must have taken you some time to compose.. or did you just copy it from here?..
Labours achievements during the last 13 years. Can you add to them? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:
good job jambutty aint been around fer a while, would have slapped A-B fer not giving credit.:D

Mancie 23-02-2010 21:25
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 790187)
Ok, here is a very partial list of Labour achievements over the past thirteen years...

Ballot Boxes are interfered with
Voting registers go missing
The Police can kill innocent people and get away with it
The state can kill people and get away with it
You can be put in prison indefinitely on the word of a politician
The State can torture people
Your children are monitored at School by Political Officers
Their behaviour is logged on a State database for their entire lives
Your innocent fingerprints, iris scans and biometrics are held by the State
You do not have the right to remain silent
You are watched on 4 million CCTV cameras
You may not photograph the Police
You do not have the right to protest peacefully
Curfews exist for entire communities
Your travel movements are logged and monitored
Who you vote for is logged and monitored
Your shopping habits are studied and logged by the State
Your emails and telephone conversations are recorded by the State
Your passport can be withdrawn at the whim of the State
Government agencies can use lie detector tests on you.
just sussed out Acrylic-bob .he's the bloke that holds human rights at heart.. the phantom flan flinger bloke from another thread :D

YouTube - How To Deal With The Police (1/2)

Stumped 23-02-2010 21:30
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 791085)
No I haven't!

The easy answer was nothing because we can't afford. I answered the question as if it were a wish list to give a truer answer of the things I believe in or a sense of direction anyway.

Council Housing for example is something we may be able to do (locally). However there are significant financial, legislative and managerial problems that are hurdles that may make them unfeasible to build.

Hopes and reality.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone.
I meant by this that parents would have a better opportunity to find work.
Isn't that just how things used to be? We had council run nurseries before they were dismantled and turned into slappers centres by the powers that be. There was also a time when council housing was provided for proper families - or is it deemed politically uncorrect to use such a term in these so called 'enlightened' times?

I think I understand where you are coming from, and maybe there is something to be said for turning the clock back. Maybe we could reintroduce the 'Baltic Fleet' and the 'Accrington Corporation Bus Service'! Those were indeed the glory days.

g jones 23-02-2010 23:31
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
I don't wish to turn the clock back rather find the best answer.

Buses could be kept privatised and routes franchised by Borough Councils saving money!

Neil 23-02-2010 23:36
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 791175)
Buses could be kept privatised and routes franchised by Borough Councils saving money.
Why keep them private?

Are you saying the Local Councils can't run them on a not for profit basis for less than the private companies?

Surely this would give us a better service and possibly lower fares?

garinda 23-02-2010 23:45
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 790397)
So you think Graham Jones is the best person to be our MP.
Would you still vote for him if he switched to the BNP?

So now tell me if it is the person, the party or both that are important?
I suppose most of us weigh up the attributes of the person, and the policies of the parties they represent, but if you think about it, we actually vote for the person, not the party.

Many times elected people have changed party mid-office, and there isn't a by-election...even though there should be, in my opinion.

g jones 23-02-2010 23:45
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Mmm. I think you could be right. Again there are hurdles. Labour flogged off the depot on the cheap. There's scale and business development issues. Capital costs upfrnt for livery and site. And nowadays with consolidated large bus companies, economies of scale.

Franchising is half way house. We sell the popular routes through bids. We use the surplus to fund loss making routes.

We franchise in a complex way looking into escalating returns and uplifts and charge out per passenger using the bus station like we used too before mmmmmmmmmmmmmm wHen we shouldn't have.

g jones 23-02-2010 23:54
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
OnTopic

I think Gordon has done well in terms of stopping a monumental financial meltdown. Not only here but importantly elsewhere.

It's not pretty, it's painful to some, but were muddling through when apocalyptic predictions and sandwich board Tories thought we wouldn't. At a price of course.

I don believe anyone could have done better in the white heat of it all. No one has any better ideas and no one has been as steadfastly confident about the right course of action.

I'm not a natural brownite but credit where due.

Mancie 24-02-2010 00:20
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 791184)
OnTopic

I think Gordon has done well in terms of stopping a monumental financial meltdown. Not only here but importantly elsewhere.

It's not pretty, it's painful to some, but were muddling through when apocalyptic predictions and sandwich board Tories thought we wouldn't. At a price of course.

I don believe anyone could have done better in the white heat of it all. No one has any better ideas and no one has been as steadfastly confident about the right course of action.

I'm not a natural brownite but credit where due.
This government has been bashed from pillar to post by the tory press .. yes the tory press..and those who try to make out that that the western world economic breakdown was conjured up by the Brown are old tories that can't stand any thought of a Labour Government...same old tories that lead us into the EU..and the same tories that we had to endure for 18yrs

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 12:01
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 790397)
So you think Graham Jones is the best person to be our MP.
Would you still vote for him if he switched to the BNP?



So now tell me if it is the person, the party or both that are important?

.
It's an interesting hypothetical scenario but I doubt that his policies would remain EXACTLY the same if he switched to BNP. I understand that the party is putting up a candidate somewhere in the borough for local elections and he or she may well end up being voted in. If the majority decide that they are the right person for the job yet that decision is derided then what is the point of democratic elections?

I stress my original point, voters should choose to elect the person they feel will do the best job. If someone unswerving believes that a BNP candidate has their best interests at heart then why should they feel bad about voting that way?

It is inevitable that there will be people who can be persuaded to vote for the best person and those who will simply vote the way they always have done regardless of the candidate. I am about to find this out first-hand.

Ruling someone out because they happen to be either Tory or Labour is definitely not the best way to vote and a misguidedly-loyal way of giving bad councillors a fighting chance to spend our taxes.

When the time comes, take a good look at the people on that voting list. Do you even know who they are? Have they ever really got involved with the local community? What has the party they represent done or at least tried to do for the town?

Coming out of the woodwork at election time to proudly display the badge and then disappearing for three years is not my idea of a good councillor.

accyman 24-02-2010 12:31
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
i like election time but only because it means holes get filled in the roads as election day nears :)

it may just be coincidence , it wont effect my vote what so ever but at least for a few months until the quick botch job yet again becomes an expensive car repair waiting to happen i dont have to worry about my front wheels getting smashed off my car

cashman 24-02-2010 13:18
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791299)

I stress my original point, voters should choose to elect the person they feel will do the best job. If someone unswerving believes that a BNP candidate has their best interests at heart then why should they feel bad about voting that way?
they should feel bad about being completly stupid more like.:rolleyes:

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 13:35
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 791328)
they should feel bad about being completly stupid more like.:rolleyes:
It certainly wouldn't sit well with a lot of people but voting Labour is viewed as completely stupid by Conservative zealots (and vice versa) so it basically comes down to a matter of perspective.

However, if someone passionately believes in something I do think they are entitled to their view in a democratic vote, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Electoral candidates should try and sway those views with reasoned arguments and solid promises rather than adopting a 'my badge is better than theirs' approach.

cashman 24-02-2010 13:40
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
perspective is differant when ya have long established parties whom both sets supporters think are best, as opposed to a bunch of thugs.

Less 24-02-2010 13:44
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 791352)
as opposed to a bunch of thugs.
Now, now Cashy I know you and Jaysay don't see eye to eye over politics, but name calling won't help.
:)

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 13:58
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 791352)
perspective is differant when ya have long established parties whom both sets supporters think are best, as opposed to a bunch of thugs.
Again, many people will agree with you but your perspective leads you to believe that, whereas I suspect plenty of BNP supporters will view the main parties as being bureaucratic toffs who are prepared to let immigration run wild.

Also, just stop and think how much the casual observer actually knows about the BNP beyond what has been portrayed in the news. Jumping on the bandwagon to reinforce public perception is an old media trick.

cashman 24-02-2010 14:03
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
i sure know enough to call em thugs n those who vote fer em stupid. whilst we all know the main partys have done sod all to grasp the immigration nettle, anyone interested enough should lobby/ campaign em to get off the pot, its as simple as that in my view.

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 14:12
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 791365)
i sure know enough to call em thugs n those who vote fer em stupid. whilst we all know the main partys have done sod all to grasp the immigration nettle, anyone interested enough should lobby/ campaign em to get off the pot, its as simple as that in my view.
Exactly. In your view, something people are fully entitled to in a democracy without the threat of being branded for it.

Again, I'll raise the subject of the Black Police Officer's Association. Just remind me why that isn't considered racist?

Less 24-02-2010 14:25
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791369)
Exactly. In your view, something people are fully entitled to in a democracy without the threat of being branded for it.

Again, I'll raise the subject of the Black Police Officer's Association. Just remind me why that isn't considered racist?

Oh, no not down the slippery slope to racism again? We already know some folk are more equal than others in many coloured skins.

Aren't there more valid examples of inequality that could serve your purpose just as well?

Schools, public transport, so on & so on. Or is it easier to stir up the emotions at the expense of 'race'?
:p

cashman 24-02-2010 14:28
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791369)
Exactly. In your view, something people are fully entitled to in a democracy without the threat of being branded for it.

Again, I'll raise the subject of the Black Police Officer's Association. Just remind me why that isn't considered racist?
depends on yer point of view, it is in mine.:rolleyes: so why should i remind you why it isnt?

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 14:33
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 791372)
Oh, no not down the slippery slope to racism again? We already know some folk are more equal than others in many coloured skins.

Aren't there more valid examples of inequality that could serve your purpose just as well?

Schools, public transport, so on & so on. Or is it easier to stir up the emotions at the expense of 'race'?
:p
Fair point, Less. However, we had drifted on to the BNP and it seemed a pertinent example of perspective - one is a organisation of people with a common interest prejudiced towards one race, the other is an organisation of people with a common interest prejudiced toward one race.

One is racist and yet the other is not. Difference of perspective. Personally speaking, either both are racist or neither are.

Acrylic-bob 24-02-2010 14:45
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Oh dear, it looks as though I have committed something of a faux-pas. Not to worry, easily mended. I half inched the list with which I started this thread from the comments appended to an article in last Sunday's Telegraph, The poster of said comment was annonymous so I couldn't really apportion credit. I actually think the list has been floating around the web in different forms for quite a while, so accurate attribution would be well nigh impossible anyway.

Sorry to disappoint you Mancie but, I don't think that because the list is unattributable it makes it any less valid as a stick with which to beat an incompetent and potentially treasonous administration. As for the Flan Flinger jibe...yeah, right, whatever.:rolleyes:

jaysay 24-02-2010 14:55
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 791356)
Now, now Cashy I know you and Jaysay don't see eye to eye over politics, but name calling won't help.
:)
That's right Less, but we like the same music and football teams, and neither of us suffer fools gladly on the right or the left:rolleyes:

Less 24-02-2010 15:12
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791380)
Fair point, Less. However, we had drifted on to the BNP and it seemed a pertinent example of perspective - one is a organisation of people with a common interest prejudiced towards one race, the other is an organisation of people with a common interest prejudiced toward one race.

One is racist and yet the other is not. Difference of perspective. Personally speaking, either both are racist or neither are.
Ah! now that begs a question, did we drift or were we pushed towards a topic that is so much easier to apportion highly emotive blame against a minority?

A master of manipulation wouldn't find it too difficult.

Lets see if we can stop this drift by substituting a different example Off the top of my head equally emotive and also without much hope of being fixed in my lifetime by any party, how about the NHS that should get the old 'rivers of blood' attitude a good airing

Not enough blood donors, not enough organ donors, not enough politicians wanting to grasp this embarrassingly weeping sore and give it a decent injection that could mean a cure for many a poor soul and if you want to play the touch of a racist card heavily dependent on people of all colours helping for very little reward.
:cool:

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 15:23
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 791417)
Ah! now that begs a question, did we drift or were we pushed towards a topic that is so much easier to apportion highly emotive blame against a minority?

A master of manipulation wouldn't find it too difficult.

Lets see if we can stop this drift by substituting a different example Off the top of my head equally emotive and also without much hope of being fixed in my lifetime by any party, how about the NHS that should get the old 'rivers of blood' attitude a good airing

Not enough blood donors, not enough organ donors, not enough politicians wanting to grasp this embarrassingly weeping sore and give it a decent injection that could mean a cure for many a poor soul and if you want to play the touch of a racist card heavily dependent on people of all colours helping for very little reward.
:cool:
If you're talking about mandatory organ donation you can have my signature today. That's my personal view and it's a topic that really is worthy of wider debate.

Less 24-02-2010 15:27
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791422)
If you're talking about mandatory organ donation you can have my signature today. That's my personal view and it's a topic that really is worthy of wider debate.
O.K. so thats a start, not exactly throwing yourself at it like a blackman possessed though are you, (I apologise if I've offended the possessed, black-men know who they are)!

:golly:

jaysay 24-02-2010 15:38
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791422)
If you're talking about mandatory organ donation you can have my signature today. That's my personal view and it's a topic that really is worthy of wider debate.
I'm all for opt out rather than opt in Ken, and I agree about a wider bebate

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 15:41
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 791431)
I'm all for opt out rather than opt in Ken, and I agree about a wider bebate
Just speaking personally, John. The Donor Card scheme could do with another push rather than forcing people to accept being carved up after death. I can see why it's not very appealing to everyone but as far as I'm concerned once I'm gone, I'm gone.

All I would ask is that they do actually wait till I'm gone.....

Acrylic-bob 24-02-2010 15:42
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
And then we come to Graham's wish list...

If you recall I asked Graham how he replied to, and could morally defend, the charges laid against his party during their 13 year administration. His reply; it all depends on how you look at it.

I also asked him how he would persuade voters to give his party another five years in office. His reply; a wish list.

It is the same tired, meaningless tripe that I have heard spouted at every election by every candidate since I first became old enough to vote. The only difference in this wish list are the references to private landlords, which I happen to know is a particular hobby horse of Graham's.

At the time of the last General Election I dimly recall writing on here that one should approach the selection of an MP as though one were an employer with a £60k job on offer. I advised that the voter should disregard party loyalty and cast their vote for the person best qualified to undertake the job. And though no one took my advice and voted Greg -Yes, Chief Whip - Pope into the position for another term, I stand by my original advice. Your MP must work for you. He is sent to Parliament to represent your views and make your voice heard at the heart of Government. If he cannot do that, if all he can do is spout the party line, and carry on holding political grudges dating back a quarter of a century then I suggest that, despite his local connections, he is not the best man for the job.

This is a pity, because Graham is an effective Councillor and I know he has worked very hard to make the lives of his constituents better. But perhaps, local people and local issues in a local arena are his forte. I wrote the other day that I wished for an MP with a bit of umphf, a bit of fizz and presence about them. Nice chap though he is, sadly, Graham does not fit the bill. The list and this thread were intended to give him an opportunity to impress on us what a godsend to us all he would make as our MP. And what do we get... It depends on how you look at it...and a rerun of the 1980's.

If you think I am being partial, wait till the conservatives make their selection.

Less 24-02-2010 15:46
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791432)
Just speaking personally, John. The Donor Card scheme could do with another push rather than forcing people to accept being carved up after death. I can see why it's not very appealing to everyone but as far as I'm concerned once I'm gone, I'm gone.

All I would ask is that they do actually wait till I'm gone.....
Already been given a boost, on the box, in newspapers & most importantly, on accyweb.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ion-51153.html

Now, while I'm sitting in a queue patiently awaiting some action, what views about waiting lists, (Oy' Jaysay I know your dying to say something but back in line until your names called).
:)

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 15:49
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 791433)
If you recall I asked Graham how he replied to, and could morally defend, the charges laid against his party during their 13 year administration. His reply; it all depends on how you look at it.

I advised that the voter should disregard party loyalty and cast their vote for the person best qualified to undertake the job. And though no one took my advice and voted Greg -Yes, Chief Whip - Pope into the position for another term, I stand by my original advice.

If all he can do is spout the party line, and carry on holding political grudges dating back a quarter of a century then I suggest that, despite his local connections, he is not the best man for the job.
Might I suggest a dose of your own medicine?

The whole crux of your opening question was based on a 13-year grudge and a biased list of slip ups that you cribbed from someone else. Graham is supposed to come back at that without a list of counter-arguments?

Plus, Greg Pope stood down of his own accord.

garinda 24-02-2010 15:56
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 791433)
If you think I am being partial, wait till the conservatives make their selection.

Look forward to it Acidic-babs, but after criticising Janet Storey's suitability to be Mayor of Hyndburn, due to poor grooming, does Graham cut the sartorial mustard for you?

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 15:58
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 791435)
Already been given a boost, on the box, in newspapers & most importantly, on accyweb.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ion-51153.html

Now, while I'm sitting in a queue patiently awaiting some action, what views about waiting lists, (Oy' Jaysay I know your dying to say something but back in line until your names called).
:)
My personal view is that instead of propping up the banks we should have let them all collapse and have one big nationalised bank take over their affairs. The Post Office would have been secured forever if they had seized the opporunity to make it into a bank at a time of national panic.

The money that the NHS needs to radically improve is peanuts compared to that.

Acrylic-bob 24-02-2010 16:15
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Ken: no you may not suggest a dose of my own medicine. I do not have a grudge against Labour, I disagree with the party, its ethos and it's shabby philosophy, I always have and probably always will. However, as you will see in due course, every politician, of whatever stripe or flavour gets an equal dose of my spleen, I have no favourites (why do you think I describe Britcliffe as the Idiot-in Chief?). The list, I admitted when I posted it, is partial. but contains most of the main complaints against the current Labour administration, so I would have thought that it would only be reasonable that anyone politically aware enough to consider standing for Parliament would have enough nouse to be able to answer them. Seems I was wrong.

It matters not one jot whether Pope stood down of his own accord or not except that it is probably the first thing that he has done of his own accord in the entire time he has represented the borough.

Acrylic-bob 24-02-2010 16:17
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 791439)
does Graham cut the sartorial mustard for you?
I do actually have quite a soft spot for Graham, believe it or not, it must be the chiselled northern good looks.:D:D:D

Acrylic-bob 24-02-2010 16:26
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
And just to make one thing clear, and to forestall any accusations of my being a Tory, arch or otherwise, rindy. Before we go any further let me say that there is only one person in this benighted country who may command my respect and loyalty as a right, and that is Her Majesty. The rest have to earn it. Sadly, most of them fail to.

Less 24-02-2010 16:28
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 791440)
My personal view is that instead of propping up the banks we should have let them all collapse and have one big nationalised bank take over their affairs. The Post Office would have been secured forever if they had seized the opporunity to make it into a bank at a time of national panic.

The money that the NHS needs to radically improve is peanuts compared to that.
Is this known as getting to grips with the subject or just dodging around without actually saying anything?

If it's the former or the latter, have you considered a career in politics? You should fit in quite well, (here's a tip though try the Labour party first they'll literally take anyone that walks in off the street).
:D

cashman 24-02-2010 16:33
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 791448)
And just to make one thing clear, and to forestall any accusations of my being a Tory, arch or otherwise, rindy. Before we go any further let me say that there is only one person in this benighted country who may command my respect and loyalty as a right, and that is Her Majesty. The rest have to earn it. Sadly, most of them fail to.
well please explain how she has earned it?:confused:

Acrylic-bob 24-02-2010 16:37
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
By being nice to her mum. When said mum asked her just who she thought she was. HM's reply is reported as "I'm The Queen, Mummy. I'm The Queen."

Ken Moss 24-02-2010 16:37
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less (Post 791450)
Is this known as getting to grips with the subject or just dodging around without actually saying anything?

If it's the former or the latter, have you considered a career in politics? You should fit in quite well, (here's a tip though try the Labour party first they'll literally take anyone that walks in off the street).
:D
You hinted for my opinion on waiting lists and there it is. If that sort of money was going to be bandied about in an emergency then spend it on something the country desperately needs to sort out a chronic problem.

If the NHS had been sorted instead, two chronic problems could have been solved in one fell swoop by turning the Post Office into a national bank at the same time and we wouldn't have had half the national debt. Personal opinion, nothing more.

garinda 24-02-2010 16:40
Re: Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 791448)
...there is only one person in this benighted country who may command my respect and loyalty as a right, and that is Her Majesty.
Thank you, you're most loyal, but please cease this public show of genuflection.

That's the best bow I've seen since Vanessa Redgrave bent so low at Sunday's BAFTAs, to Prince William, that her fringe brushed the stage.


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