Unions flexing their muscles again
 

One can't help but notice that the Labour supporting Unions are once again demonstrating their intrinsic lack of interest in public opinion in being led like sheep into strike situations by a couple of loud-mouthed bigots whose evident self-interest has no place in modern society. No matter what the cause, for them to disrupt the business and holiday plans of thousands is nothing short of disgraceful.

:mosher::mosher::mosher:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

No doubt these Union leaders hope to somehow bring about a Labour victory and GB will give them a Peerage so that they can get onto a bigger gravy train. I am sure that their present salaries are higher than those of any of the people they represent.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

the unions are not striking for nothing british airways wants and its cronies wants the strikes to try and sway public opinion so it can do what it wants, who else offered to take a 2 and a half percent paycut you dont read this in the murdoch press..these are people with mortgages and bills to pay like everybody else,and wouldnt take striking lightley anybody that criticises should read the full facts first..

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

No fact's, no figures, just an example of mindless union bashing, I have never thought strikes where of any practical use to companies or members of a union but without links to prove your thoughts, both of you have wasted space on the server, with mindless prejudice.

No doubt sometime in the past you both have family members that fought for the right not to be oppressed by selfish factory owners.

You're relatives aren't lying peacefully in their graves, in fact you probably can both be traced back to poor old 'spinning Jenny' who was one of the people that made sacrifices to make life better for her families future.

:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I would never expect anything less from people of a certain mindset Less, who in the main care nowt about owt but their own selfish ways.:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I dont know many within the travel industry that has sympathy with the (Heathrow) BA strike!!...ask their colleagues at Gatwick!!!


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I don't know any involved in the dispute from either side of the bed, but if I was to give an opinion knocking folk, I would back such thoughts with facts & links, not personal prejudice.
:)

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

so why did ba take their offer off the table.political meandering i thinks..

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Not going to be drawn into the battle on this one, I have my own opinion of BASSA and this strike, much the same as most crew in the world.
However if you are interested:
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/404...ons-mk-vi.html

and

BA Strike - Your thoughts & rants - PPRuNe Forums

from Pprune, a aviation forum I am part of, will help give you a better insight, than what the media say. And more likely more of the truth. Be warned there is a awful lot of reading there

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

'British prime minister Gordon Brown has condemned the strike, saying it is in no-one's interest.'
Airline strike fails to halt BA - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

That event seems highly unlikely.

I'm sure the government are spitting feathers, that there are two major strikes planned, so close to an election.

You don't see many trollrey dollies in donkey jackets.

Perhaps the Union has been infiltrated by Tories, out to cause mischief.

:D

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Since when does an opinion become a personal prejudice?? Who am i knocking??...I'm stating my valid opinion!..The staff at Gatwick are on far less beneficial terms than those at Heathrow which is why support from that area has not been wholehearted. I dont hear any calls from Heathrow saying how unfair people in the other hub have been treated! Why has the unite union been happy to see such large pay differentials established within the same company? Their terms and conditions of employment have been far better than others within the industry for a long time. Seems to me BA are attempting to level the playing field. Or perhaps its the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet and Virgin who are getting it all so badly wrong.

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Was pretty appalled that Brown refused to support BA staff who wanted to work over the weekend. I wasn't shocked, as it's quite clear the unions have Brown in their pockets as he'd have no money to fight the election without them.

All some staff want to do is work to keep the company afloat and prevent it going under by keeping the planes flying and reliable so customers return to BA.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Give us a concise version.

As a pilot.

For, or against?

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Sorry to step in.

If I was a shareholder I would want Willy Walsh sacked.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

yep hes got his fingers in a lot of pies..:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Well I'd sack Willie too, and Michael O Leary as well.

Okay I am against the strike, but not for any right wing, Thatcherite reason.

BA cabin crew earn average 30K per year, at least double the average Cabin Crew salary. In fact most pilots who fly you on holiday don't earn that and those at a certain Irish LoCo don't earn anything for the first year.

BA Aircraft are overmanned, this harks back to the good old days when they were a good airline to fly with.

The have picked a very bad time to do this, BA are floundering, lots of reasons, but most of the industry is suffering at the moment. This is a worse period for the industry than just after the 911 attacks.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Are B.A. overmanned in yer honest opinion? or are the others undermanned? aint having a pop, just asking a relevant question.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Well Cashy, if the industry regulatory body ICAO is right, the you only need 1 cabin crew per 50 pax. I think the rest of the industry should put more cabin crew on board.

But as it is driven by customers wishing to pay less and less to go away, you can fly on a £60 million aircraft from Manchester to London for less than half the train fare, nothing will happen.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

They don't make 'em like they used to.

No finesse.

Serving stuffed olives at 29,000 feet, and not a whiff of a panty girdle.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Cheers fer a straight answer, ya shouldn't really be a tory Boeing Guy.:D;)

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Seconded.

Thanks for your insight, from an industry insider's point of view.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Did you know that same airline only pay cabin crew while they are in the air? So if they are delayed they get nothing while waiting. I forget now what I was told on Friday about what they are paid and hour by the boyfriend of a girl who flys with them.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Not soft Mick?

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

ashy, you are welcome.

Neil, same with the pilots. They get paid for the scheduled flight time only.
No pay for reporting 1 hour before the flight nor for the turn around or for the 30 mins after flight. Also all uniform, courses, parking, id badges etc costs are deducted from their pay.
If ever a workforce should stand up and strike they are it.:(

Just for info a quote from said companies website re Cabin Crew...
and

I forgot to add that the pilots and cabin crew are contractors, not employed by them so there are no safety nets for them, not even sick pay.

Got to go, working to day, Taxi to Marrakesh then fly to Paris Orly, no its no glamorous just work....

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I meant Cashy, you are welcome.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

If you knew how much he smoked you too would realise how appropriate Ashy just might be.
:D

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

'Their intransigence is beginning to hurt the government’s standing, as the YouGov/Sunday Times poll shows today.'
The unions ride to Cameron’s rescue | Martin Ivens - Times Online

No matter what the stiking trade unionists have for deciding to time their actions now, it's lunacy to think the government will be happy, and that Brown is in favour, and is supportive of the unionists, because he isn't. With just reason, according to the latest voting intention polls.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I'm sure he's not 'happy' about it. His delay in coming out against the strike, and refusing to back workers who want to cross the picket lines and continue to work, shows he is in the pockets of the unions. Unite alone has donated £11 million to Labour, only since Brown has been PM. They are vested interests that won't allow much needed reform to happen.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

As opposed to those donors who fund the Tory party, like Lord Ashcroft, who don't have a vested interest, and provide money that should really have been paid in taxes, and who give, give, give, in acts of true altruism.

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Ashcroft to Conservative last year: 1% of Party Funding

Unions to Labour last year: 60% of Party Funding

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

that must be an example of how ya think 1% that should have been paid in taxes is acceptable.:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

As stated, donors to the Tory party have no hidden agendas, other than acting as true altruists.


'PRWeek has obtained an email sent to potential donors by CCHQ. The email, sent out on 24 November, asks recipients to 'consider joining one of our donor clubs, which range from £2k up to £50k'. The email explains how the biggest donors can now attend presentations with key party figures, as well as lunches with David Cameron after Prime Minister's Questions.'
Tory donors offered meetings with comms chiefs Steve Hilton and Andy Coulson - PR and Public Relations news - PR Week

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Yeah I think all donors should be paying tax in the UK. Including Labour's nom-dom donors such as Lord Paul, Lakshmi Mittal and Sir Ronald Cohen. The Conservatives have proposed this legislation.

I think donations should be capped at £50,000. I'd like to see lots of small donations to political parties, rather than big chunks by individuals, companies, or trade unions.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

looking at that realistically it would only favour your party, would it not?:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Don't forget to mention Lord Laidlow, when discussing non-domiciled donors.

;)


'Lord Laidlaw of Rothiemay, one of the Conservatives' biggest benefactors, who has given around £5m to the party and over recent years has almost single-handedly bankrolled the Scottish Tories, has decided to stop making donations, The Herald has been told.
The revelation about the Monaco-based peer occurred ahead of a bid next week to ban non-domiciled residents from donating to parties in a back-bench amendment to the Political Parties and Elections Bill.'
Top donor Lord Laidlaw to stop bankrolling Conservatives - Herald Scotland

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

'The Electoral Commission shows that in 2006 the Conservative party received nearly 50 individual donations each over £50,000 including 14 donors giving more than £250,000 each.'

Michael Ashcroft
The deepest of the deep pockets, Lord Ashcroft has given the Conservative party £6.5m. He was a good friend to former leader William Hague but less friendly with Michael Howard. David Cameron has since made him deputy chairman of the party.
Irvine Laidlaw
The 64-year-old is listed in the Sunday Times rich list as the second richest person in Scotland. He and his businesses have given more than £2.5m and loaned a further £2.5m. The Lord was criticised in April of this year for failing to become a UK resident despite being appointed to the House of Lords - an honour normally only afforded to UK residents.

Loenard Steinberg
Made a Tory life peer in 2004, his personal fortune has been estimated at around £108m. In 2006 he donated more than £500,000 to the Conservative party.

Lord Kalms
A fortnight ago this former Tory party treasurer said he was "disillusioned to a substantial degree" with David Cameron and said 'look chum, we need to do some rethinking.' Since he had 'not quite got the party behind him at the moment' and the that the Conservatives were having a 'very bad period'. Calling for a rethink on Europe, social cohesion and grammar schools. Over time he is thought to have given some £6.1m.

Stuart Wheeler
Thought to be one of the Conservative party's largest donors, having given in excess of £5m to the party over time, although he hasn't donated in the last two years. Though he thinks Cameron is the one leader who can win the Conservatives an election, he wants to see the party be tougher on the EU and to pledge tax cuts.

Midlands Industrial Council
Robert Edmiston - who personally lent the Tories £2m before the 2005 general election - and JCB boss Sir Anthony Bamford head up this organisation of businessmen that fund the Conservatives and they donated £400k in 2006. It is thought to have given even larger figures to a group called Constituency Campaigning Services, which supports Tories in key marginal seats.

International Motors Limited
Based in the Midlands this company donated over £2m in March 2006.

IPGL Ltd & RFG
These London-based companies both donated £1m both April 2006.
The Tory party's biggest donors | Politics | guardian.co.uk


Give, give, give, and ne'er a thought about what was in it for themselves.

True altruism.

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

To once again prove that my own views aren't blinkerd by affilation to party politics, unlike some, this is totally wrong. An utter disgrace.

Revealed: Labour’s cash for influence scandal - Times Online

It should be outlawed for any MP to be paid by lobbyists, and sell their services to the higest bidder, in the hope of gaining influence for the lobbyist's clients.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Nobody was trying to suggest anything other than that all major parties have accepted donations of over £50,000. I merely expressed a view that I believe the rules should be changed to prevent it.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

you do spout some crap, ya only highlighted labours nom-dom donors.:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

If a potential employer tells you what the terms and conditions are when you apply for a job, are they really at fault for paying peanuts and somebody feeding on them :confused:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

whatever your views are on strike action, there is one thing that people fail to realise, and that is the losers in the whole debacle will be the workers.
Firstly they will lose wages.........and ultimately, they may even lose their jobs.
I really feel that strike action is futile.......there is always someone(be that worker, or company) who will step into the breech if this airline goes under.....which it may well do.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Strange how the usual suspects crawl out of the woodwork to criticise any views opposed to that of their own! Back in the 1950/60's when I was an apprentice engineer, along with my colleagues, I was encouraged/browbeaten/ whatever, into joining the Amalgamated Engineering Union by my so called elders and betters - whether I liked it or not. When the time came to elect union officials I was confronted with a list of names which meant nothing to me and TOLD by the shop steward that I MUST vote for the person endorsed by the party in other words: Labour. I have never forgotten the experience and have been opposed to union membership of any kind since. So please don't anyone pretend to call me a bigot as I am big enough and sensible enough to have my own opion when it comes to outmoded union practices where it is evident that more and more union members are being led to the slaughter by loudmouthed agitators whose only goal is to fulfil their own political ambitions.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Hasn't the law been changed now though, so people can still be members of a union, but opt out of paying the part of the subscription that funds political parties?

I also agree with your point. Membership of a union should be an option, not a forced requirement.

Check-off and political funds

Some trade unions operate political funds. Members of these trade unions are asked to make a contribution to the trade union’s political fund, as part of their regular subscriptions. This is sometimes called the ‘political levy’.

Under the law, trade union members are free to opt out of paying the political levy at any time.

Trade union subscriptions : Directgov - Employment

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

What's strange about it? Surely it's perfectly normal and quite healthy that someone puts a point of view forward and other people disagree with it. It's called democratic debate...or should we all just fall into line and agree with you? :confused:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

"Back in the 1955 when I was an apprentice electrical engineer, I was told that I had to join the ETU- whether I liked it or not, even though by agreement the company was controlled by the AEU.
So I went along to the Stanley Arms I think it was, paid my dues and then had to listen to these communist speakers spouting a load of rubbish for a couple of hours. I told my mentor and he got me membership of the Association of Supervising Elect Eng - so it was 2 fingers up to the ETU - I was not allowed to partake in any Union activity anyway, as stated in my Certificate of Indenture, so the only reason for me to be a member of the ETU was my contribution to their coffers.
IMHO Unions were good for what they were originally intended, but when they became highly politicised they lost the plot.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I thought he was offering us a self-appraisal.

:rolleyes:

I find it quite sad really though, that some people are apparently browbeaten into doing things against their better wishes.

Even as a child, and certainly as a teenager, no one could force me into doing anything at all, if I didn't think it was the right thing to do.

I suppose it goes back to that old analogy of some people being wolves, and others are like sheep

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Your views, not mine.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Being a 16-year old in the 1950's was a totally different kettle of fish to what is happening today. Kids were brought up to respect their elders, unlike modern times when there is very little respect for anything and avararice rules the roost.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Get out of here!

What someone else says, isn't necessarily your own opinion, but may differ?

You live and learn.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

And I'm still learning.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Well, obviously they're my views. But are you saying no one else is entitled to a point of view except you?

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I was brought up by parents who were doing the same thing as myself, in the time scale you mentioned, and who were also not sheep, to be browbeaten into doing things they didn't believe were right.

I guess strength of character, knowing your own mind, and following your own convictions is a learned trait...unless it's genetic.

;)

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Absolutely not. My views are my own, but that does not mean I am not open to the views of others, which sites like this permit us to discuss in sensible debate - even though some of us do tend to rise to the bait more than others!

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Perhaps 'the usual suspects, crawling out', refers to the politically blinkered, one party line followers, who keep bangin' out the same old guff, and not free to speak their own mind, for fear of damaging a particular party.

Happily not applicable to thee and me, Wynonie.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...archid=2162989

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Well, as you're the one who's banging on about people "crawling out of the woodwork" I would say you've taken it, hook, line and sinker...only my view, not yours of course. ;)

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

That cheese must be rancid.

They at least deserve fresh.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Life does indeed deal us some harsh lessons from time to time. The lessons I learned from my early experiences with union membership scarred me for life. The company I worked for was deemed a closed shop, hence my change of career on completing my apprenticeship, since which time I have looked upon union activity with a suspicion that has failed to mellow with time.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I must point out that in the '50s it was necessary to be a Trade Union member - if you weren't then you didn't get a job. Every factory was a Trade Union Shop - legally I believe. Mrs Thatcher did away with that law I think, and gave freedom of choice to the individual. Didn't affect me at all - 18 years in the RAF and then an expat, in the US and ME

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Please Sir, Oooh! please, please, me, Sir, me, Can I crawl out of the woodwork? It will make a nice change from being told to get back under the stone I crawled out from.

:)

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Touche!!!

If we can but cease the verbal squabbling for a time, can we get back to the crux of the debate as regards the why's and wherefore's of the current and threatened industrial actions which are sure to cost all concerned dearly - not to mention the country as a whole!

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

That's another wise lesson my parents taught me, besides not being forced into doing anything against your will, respect is earned. It's not an automatic right.

There are young people who deserve respect, because they're kind, honest, selfless, and there are older people who still haven't got the sense they were born with, for whom it's harder to make a show of respect.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Though this changed after 1964, because of the ruling after the Rookes vs. Barnard case.

Before that of course, if you were vehemently opposed to becoming a union member, in those halcyon days of full employment, you could have picked a line of work that didn't require union membership.

:D

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Union membership certainly didn't help the beleagered coal miners and steel workers!

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

[quote=garinda;799208]Not if you wanted a worthwhile trade, but by then I had taken the Queen's Shilling and was in Borneo defending Malaysia (including Singapore then), against Indonesia - the first of my Brush Fires. Lovely days.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Butcher, baker, candlestick maker.

I believe quite a few managed quite well, earning a tasty crust, without joining any trade union.

;)

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Never really had much to do with unions, but what I saw as I grew up seemed to be more about themselves (the Union Leaders) than the people they supposedly represented.

Back in the mists of time their intentions were quite right, the idea of looking after the little Fella, but as it became more a job than an honorary position & they reaped the benefits thereof, I believe something was lost, their fundamental reason for being slipped away.

I recall, the strikes of people like Binmen, Firemen & especially the Miners, in the end what was the net gain ? At the outset the public may have backed them but once it started intruding into Joe Publics personal life, any support rapidly vanished to be replaced by resentment. Who benefited ?

It wasn't the strikers as they ended up out of pocket & in some cases out of work with all the social implications that entails. The public certainly didn't, but the leaders managed well enough, always money for the management.

Modern unions tend to be self serving, they don't cater for their members just the boys & girls at the top, & when political parties have to give concessions to such entities it will be the people who suffer.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

So the "belegered" coal miners and steel workers would have been better off if they had towed the line and not questioned any job cuts, pay cuts, worked 12 hours a day under conditions that meant you were dead before your kids?... I don't know how old you are Stumped but I know old tory "values" when I see them.. go back to living in your dream of the good old days when t'boss at t'mill would send round a loaf of bread if you were off sick for a month.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Wondered where you'd got to, Mancie. I was born during WW2 in 1941. As to my political views? I no longer have any. I haven't voted in any election for some time as I don't see the point any more since Europe took over the purse strings and rendered Parliamment redundant. I believe the miners under Joe Gormley could have negotiated a better compromise than they achieved under the confrontational leadership of Scargill. If we still had working pits, then maybe we wouldn't be as beholden to the likes of France and Grermany for our gas and electricity! But therein lies another story.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Some lucky sods made a fortune in overtime n some even bragged about it during the miners dispute, that would be our illustrious Police Force.:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

But there was no negotiation offered to the miners.. it was take it or strike..to try to make a case that that strike lead to the selling off of the national gas or electric is rubbish .. the tory cabinet in there untold wisdom had decide to sell off any public owned industry to anyone..people forget the reality of the strike in '84.. and people are to easy with words when they say the public are against the strike by BA staff... BA staff are members of the public like you and me.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

So did the miners - I lived in a Notts village in 71/72 and we could buy coal from the miners who used to come into the village pub every Friday evening - from their very generous allowance of free coal - which they got even when on strike.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

You are correct, Cashman. Neither side came out of the sad dispute bathed in glory, but to boast about the expenses earned by some was both wrong and demeaning. However, believe me, the confrontations at the various pit-heads provided the most frightening experiences of my entire life and involved several changes of underwear, which I am not ashamed to admit to. I am sure that the dispute could have been handled better, and I believe it was wrong of Mrs Thatcher to embroil the police in a battle that should never have been allowed to degerate into sduch a hostile situation, the repercussions of which still reverberate today.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

would they be striking miners or scabs Barrie? as notts had a surplus of those.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

They also dissembled and sold the railways - and look at the mess that has landed us with. I grew up in the glorious days of steam which, I grant you were filthy, smoke and soot belching monsters, but boy: they were spectacular.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

'Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate' was the phrase repeated again and again by Joe Gorley on the national news bulletins, but Arthur Scargill and Mick MacGhachie concluded that confrontation was the only option.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

The Notts miners did break the strike and let's not mess about.. the "leaders" of the Notts miners were duped by the then Thatcher government.. 80% of Notts miners were sacked within 3 years.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Didn't someone purport to set up an alternative union and attempt to liaise some sort of compromise with the coal board? which only served to aggravate the relationships between the various factions?

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

There was never any offer of negotiation.. it was a take it or leave it .. the "take it" was a massive (over 50%) cut in the workforce followed by another cut of 25% over 3 years.. like I say if you have any respect for the bloke working next door you would strike.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Oh they were on strike OK and NUM members - the landlord's brother-in-law had a thriving business going, he was making more money on strike than when working

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

From what I heard the police shipped up from London earned a few bob with expenses, hotel bills and overtime, some of them wore "we love scargill" tee shirts.
There is no defence for the wipe out of jobs and whole communities the then tory government inflicted on Britian.. and yet we still have those who will defend those actions.. pathetic!

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

and after all the strikes....what is left of the mining industry? Precious little.........so what did the withdrawal of labour do to prevent the demise of the mining industry? Absolutely nothing.
As for the steel industry, well that has shrunk unbelievably too.
As I observed in a previous post, strikes do not benefit those who go on strike(they lose money) and the customers that the strikers are there to service find alternative places to get their goods.......so customers are lost......and the market is driven abroad, often with the result of a cheaper product.
The end result........a market in this country is lost to overseas providers.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

that is a sad fact n perfectly true margaret, but as that dispute was all about "Pit Closures" not pounds,shillings, ans pence, what would you suggest as an alternative fer those workers? "Bend down n let thatcher stuff em."

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Cashy, I'm not sure that it would have been any different whichever political party had been in power.
While I do remember the disputes,I can't really remember the political background.....politics seemed very boring then.
I think that the market for coal had shrunk and so if the pits had been allowed to continue working then they would slowly have died out from lack of business.
I remember when I was growing up everyone had coal fires, and the coal man was a regular visitor to every street.......but modern life meant that everyone wanted the sleek lines of a teak surround and the convenience of a gas fire........so coal was given the heave ho.
Ok, maybe the Electricity generating stations still used coal, but I am sure that I read somewhere at the time that the coal was being produced far more cheaply in Poland and it was being imported.
When your product becomes outmoded or too expensive, then the industry goes to the Wall.......cotton was a similar story.
Howard and Bulloughs exported the machinery to the far east and with it went the thousands of jobs that kept Lancashire in bread and butter.

There never has been a political will to support what are seen as 'lame duck' industries(well, not for very long anyway).

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

It's the same old story.. strikes make the unions public enemy.. but it's soon forgot that members of unions are not raving red flag commie's .. if you get pushed into a corner you can fight or give up.
everyone has regret for those who have lost holidays and such..but there don't seem to be much sympathy for those who are about to loose their livelihood because of job cuts.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

pits were closed with decades of coal left in em, coal was started being imported from poland soley to crush the miners, whilst supplys to the electric board. Scargill whilst handling the dispute very badly, was called a liar by thatcher n the media, fer saying how many pits would close, They actually closed many more than he predicted, so in that sense he was a liar.:rolleyes: this was proved a few years after, yet the same media that crucified him, never said then he was right. thats the true story of this rotten society.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

I have every sympathy for those who lose their jobs because of job cuts, but sometimes the militancy of unions does them no favours........and strike action is an counter productive if it makes a business go under.......the workers have still lost their jobs, but because they have withdrawn their labour.
Losing your job because you are no longer competitive in a cut throat market is no different to losing your job because the company you worked for has lost its clients due to your withdrawal of labour.......you still have no employment....no way to pay the mortgage....put food on the table.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

fine if it was not competative, but the pits still were, was all about crushing the union margaret nowt else.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Yes Cashy, I suppose that is true....but all their strikes didn't solve anything or change the course of what would happen to the industry......it just lost the miners and their families money(and of course the other workers who dipped into their own pockets to support the miners).

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

the polish coal was actually cheaper, but was crap,poor quality n caused problems, it cost me personally a fair bit, but i do not begrudge 1 penny of it.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

It's difficult to take an objective view over any strike situation. There are clearly rights and wrongs on both sides of any given dispute. But essentially it is the consumer who suffers, either through lack of service or personal loss. Yes, unions plainly do have a part to play in negotiating what they see as best for their members, but this should never be at an increased cost to those who are often left stranded on the fringe of things when problems become insurmountable through the intransigence of the parties involved.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

All very good Stumped and most right thinking people would agree with you.. but where is the line drawn between servicing the public or being shoved into a postion were there is no other option but to make a stand?.. who has the responsibilty to serve the customers?.. the workforce or the directors?

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

There is awlays someone ready to jump into the breech left by those who withdraw their labour.......this was never more true than today when an eastern eurpoean worker will jump at the chance to do the job once done by one of us.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Very true.. but then again not so long ago a strong union would not allow that.. think about it..umm... I know it that maybe hard work for you but maybe you could order a brain from the pizza takeaway and have it delivered.. (by some ****** from the eastern block)

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

The buck should always stop at the man at the top, after all that's what he's payed for - and pretty well, too by all accounts.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

No need for that Marg always puts forward a well thought out balanced response and insults are belittling you not her Mancie so think before you post:rolleyes:

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Yes it was a "well balanced" but if people have the attitude that you work you work till you drop for fear of some eastern european taking your job, then we are really going back to the Victorian age.. an age were most of us would be dead before middle age...some people crave for those times..those people are idiots.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

They were poor, but they were happy Mancie.

...and a girl with Rickets would be able to cover her unsightly disability, because dresses and skirts were longer in the good old days. So even she'd be happy in her ignorance.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

Mancie, you do not advance your argument by making cheap jibes.
I do have a brain, I can think, and it isn't hard work for me to think........I don't need to order a brain from a takeaway pizza place.

Before I retired I had a taxing and responsible job.
I would thank you not to insult me to try and win points.
I do not belittle you for your opinions, so please have the courtesy to offer me the same respectfor my opinions.
Oh and just by the way I have no political affilliation, which is why I will take a pin with me to the polling booth.

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

No violence, Marg!

Oh, sorry, the pin's to help you to decide who to vote for, and not a weapon.

Apologies.

:D

Re: Unions flexing their muscles again
 

got it in one Gary! :D