Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

You're assuming a national Labour win from that statement. Given the current scenario, I wouldn't like to place any large amounts of money on that.

A Labour win in Hyndburn is much different and, more to the point, deserved.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Graham is standing on a platform that supports the Brown government. He supports a government that have made a colossal amount of mistakes. That is our democracy - you're voting for somebody to represent you, but the party they belong to matters because they tend to support the policies of that party!

No doubt Graham is a local candidate. Ken, you think he's the best. I will admit to you that if someone is voting purely on who has lived in the constituency for a long time, Graham will probably get their vote. It's about much more than that though. MPs can easily adjust to local constituency work. You've got to consider what party and government they are going to support when down in Westminster.

When you consider that, in my opinion he might be the best man for the job, but he's not the best person. ;)

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I see Gordon Brown is in Oldham this morning, alongside Jack Straw. I wonder what the odds are they will be travelling up to Blackburn, via Accy?

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Slim to none:rolleyes:

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Wait while tomorrow

;)

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I didn't specify a time.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I'd prefer to support a party that works as a team and is best for the area, which is why the Conservatives will never get my vote in Hyndburn. Spitting the dummy out over Peter Britcliffe's rejection, resignations over a CCO decision, uneven balancing of Hyndburn's finances, vicious personal attacks on members of the opposition, somewhat dubious promises on campaign literature....I could go on but I won't. Voting for Karen Buckley is essentially approving of this behaviour.

Local politics are the foundation of national politics and you should look to your own area as a starting point on how to get things right.

Vote from the bottom up and not the top down.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Vicious personal attack on members of the opposition, your a good bloke Ken, but you really do need to take your rose tinted glasses of mate, there is nobody worse for personal attacks than Mr Jones, as he adequately portrays in his latest News Letter to Accrington South, the only trouble is he doesn't even know when he's doing it, he's just a self publishing narcissist

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

In my view the foundation is certainly at national level.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Working on that assumption, government should tell the people what is best for them rather than each borough advising Westminster on what they need.

Sounds like a bit of a dictatorship ideal to me.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Voting for Labour in a general election,just means to me that your happy with the present government and their policies. it has to come from the top down like in all good organisations.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Fair point John, I have to concede that there are faults on both sides but the swing for me was 'that' Observer letter which I thought was particularly below the belt.

As for narcissistic, it may appear that way to some people but I can say, hand on heart, that he is certainly not. On the flip side of that coin, Peter Britcliffe comes across in a rather self-publicising way to me (the notorious Hyndburn calendar being a case in point) but perhaps I'm wrong too.

Different perspectives, possibly.

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This is different because it is a general election. if it was just local may be i could understand your way of thinking.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I think the election night will be very interesting so many people have changed their vote from Labour and Con to Lib Dem.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I do prefer Labour's policies on a national level, mainly because they do actually have some policies and aren't scratting around simply saying how bad it will be if David Cameron gets in.

On a local level, why would I vote Conservative in Rishton? All our tax revenue seems to get spent in Accrington and Oswaldtwistle, presumably why you're so much in favour of them given your location.

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If i thought they could win i would consider voting for them but i am concerned about the hung parliament, and feel it would be a wasted vote.

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Actually Ken,i dont even think about what money that is spent locally,may be i should,. I am possibly a lot more interested in national policies that are really important to me and our future generation.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

A fair point, but how many other people are thinking the same thing up and down the country? Go with what you truly believe instead of a tactical assumption, whichever way you intend to vote.

I note you sidestepped my point about tax revenue in Hyndburn. How can that be justified? Who wants a Tory MP for Hyndburn when what they're really standing for is Oswaldtwistle? A disorganised local party and a non-local candidate, it just doesn't look good to me.

I take your point about national policies but can you honestly say that Ms Buckley will be better for Hyndburn than Graham Jones? Surely a voice for our borough is more important?

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Did you ask why money is not being spent in your area.

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Frequently, and the official figures show that Rishton got over £1m spent on facilities last year. Hmmm.

If that is true, why are people in Rishton complaining about it? It's not just Rishton either as I'm sure this forum will demonstrate.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Voting for LibDems is NOT a wasted vote, it is a vote for the LibDems. The argument that it is a wasted vote is frustrating because that implies that people are not voting for the party that they want to get in but voting against the party that they want to keep out!

Personally, I think that's the wrong approach and we should each vote for who we really believe is the best option for the country.

Look at it this way -
You vote Labour and Labour win
Unlikely, but it proves that the majority want to maintain the status quo - Gordon Brown stays in.

You vote Conservative and they win with a majority - Gordon Brown is out
You vote Conservative and they win but without a majority - Cameron and Clegg pair up - Gordon Brown is out

You vote Lib Dem
Labour win but without a majority - they need to form a coalition government which Nick Clegg has said he is open to as long as Gordon Brown steps down. - Gordon Brown is out
Conservatives win but without a majority - Lib Dems form a coaliation government - Gordon Brown is out
Finally, on the off chance that everyone has voted for the party that they truly believe to win rather than voting tactically, Lib Dems win and both Brown and Cameron are out.

In other words, a vote for LibDems is just what it says it is - under any scenario other than an outright win Gordon Brown is out.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

No i can honestly say that Graham Jones is the best candidate for Hyndburn and believe he is a really dedicated person for his borough, but to vote for him in a general election would be saying i was in favour of Labour policies and a Labour government. I may consider voting Lib Dem because if all the people have decided to do this we may really be in for a big surprise.Waiting now for the final debate to make my decision.
Will be considering all their views on pensions and how they will look after the elderly in this country. Really like Camerons policy on the 8,ooo that you can pay to protect your hard earned income and home so you can leave it to your loved ones instead of the state taking it all if you have to go into care. Under Labour policy currently they take it all very unfair system. Really i think it should be free like in Scotland but i guess money can only go so far.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Also i feel their are many people out their claiming benefits that are not genuine and Cameron will get rid of them, for the people who are genuine and cant work then i think they should receive more to help them so stop the cheats and give more to those in need.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Bet he'd rather have come here than Rochdale!!!!:D


Best Regards - Taggy

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On his way back there now on a damage limitation exercise. I knew they should have got rid, before they went to the country!

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Yep...i think he's pretty much done for after that!...How ruddy naive and stupid!...I've no doubt most politicians have a few choice words about people in private, but for him and his aides to forget he was miked up is just sheer stupidity. Certainly didn't help when we can all see that the lady said nothing wrong or contentious at all...he even seemed to have got her on side too...so i really am baffled as to what he was whinging about!!


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I think that's outrageous - he was in private. I'm sorry but I think that it was wrong to broadcast that. Yes, he was a bit dumb for being miked up and saying it but what has happened is like phone tapping and probably illegal.

As for the lady, it's not a surprise that they're only showing the last bit of their conversation.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

That's exactly why they should broadcast it. As citizens, we've every right to know the true thoughts of those who are asking for our votes. They're the ones who're answerable to US, not the other way round.

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Well I've known Britcliffe for a long time and I cant remember him ever sending out an eight page leaflet, which is basically saying look at me the great I am, the great white hope, the only thing missing on the front is I HAVE A DREAM, its just 8 pages self publishing, I've done this, I've don't that, but of course there's always the old saying Self Praise is no Recommendation, the only thing is the person that gave me the leaflet was of the same opinion, he's just full of his own importance

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Oh come on Gayle, we are in the middle of a General Election campaign the guys miked up, he (and for that matter, so are other leading politicians) knows that every word is scrutinised by the world and his wife, can you imagine if Cameron had done the same he'd have been hung at dawn, if he can't control his comments he shouldn't be in politics, sorry

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Exactly my thoughts Wyn

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[QUOTE=turkishdelight]Really like Camerons policy on the 8,ooo that you can pay to protect your hard earned income and home so you can leave it to your loved ones instead of the state taking it all if you have to go into care. Under Labour policy currently they take it all very unfair system.[/QUOTE]

A policy introduced by the conservatives, if my memory serves me correctly.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I agree 100%. it was a private conversation, and it should have been pointed out to him, but not broadcast.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Could not disagree more. This man could well be leading the country for the next five years. We, the electorate, have every right to know his private views on the mugs who'll be voting for him...or not, as the case may be!

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

[QUOTE=yerself;810827]Yes your right however Labour have never changed it at least it is being changed now.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

[QUOTE=turkishdelight;810836]that was a very misleading comment, but expect nowt less.:rolleyes:

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[QUOTE=cashman;810839] It was not meant to be misleading.I am just happy its being addressed now.Only really become interested in politics of late when i have realised the effects this government has had on the economy and on peoples lives. I am concerned about the elderly in this country and the future of the next generation more than myself.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

well, I guess we'll have to disagree on this one.
Private conversations are just that...... private.
Do you want to listen to all of Gordon Browns conversations?
Do you think the other leaders have not got into their vehicles and made some senseless comment about who they have just met? If you do, then you exhibit an amazing naivete.

It was stupid of him to make the mistake of making the comment before he was relieved of his mike....and one of his aides should have been a bit more on the ball.

Personally I don't need to know the private views of the politicians who are supposed to be representing our interests, as they have already (by their deeds) shown a complete disregard for our wishes and interests.

And, before anyone starts to label me as a Labour supporter......I will say this, I hold all the party leaders in complete contempt.......if you broke them all up there would not be enough parts to construct a decent leader....and do you know the most relevant bits that are missing......?
Well, they are small and round and hidden from view!

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

[QUOTE=turkishdelight;810842]Today I read a copy of the letter that Karen Buckley has sent to Postal Voters. Some of the things she was saying that a Tory government would recitify were extremely interesting.
Restore the link between state pensions and earnings - this was taken away by guess who? (A Tory government)
Stop Utility companies h charging too much for their products - guess who privatised the Utility companies? (A Tory government)
Employ less managers and more nurses and doctors in the NHS - guess who introduced the internal market and more managers into the NHS? (A Tory government).
Then there is the tax allowance to married couples £150 a year but only if one of the couple is not working.
Work with a Tory controlled council to bring investment into the borough. The Labour government has invested millions in Hyndburn and also is she saying that the current Tory administration in Hyndburn has been ineffective in attracting investment into the borough.

I also noticed that she has not made any commitment to having a fully staffed constituency office, where residents can have a local point of contact with their MP if they have any problems.

I am equally concerned about older people and the next generation but the only people who prosper under a Tory government are people with money - it has always been that way and always will be.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

here you go ...

BBC News - Election 2010: Potholes to peace - more unusual pledges

its the little parties pledges will cheer you up ..

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I'm glad you aren't a builder,

Let's stick the foundations where the roof should be, good thinking Batman.
:D

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There are SOME, not many, when compared to other fiddlers.

I have to come back to my own little Bonnet with the bee's a buzzin' around a subject you never comment on when I bring it up.


What about the cheating, scrounging, pretend to be a student type person that gets a grant, for their studies, turns up for a few day's then gives up without having to pay the money back.

Surely they are as bad if not worse than all the people you claim are living a life of luxury, milking the benefit system?

Pity the poor sod caught up in the middle of this that is wrongly declared fit even though they haven't done anything wrong?

:mad:

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I've decided to put my selection towards the idiot Christians, I might even vote that way, then I can turn up at his church and demand He sees me immediately on Parliamentary business.

It would take a Saint not to swear just as he got to the bit where, folk dash to the front for the diluted vinegar and wafer thin popadums.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Yes there are a lot of spongers out there, but I bet there are more rich people avoiding paying tax than there are spongers

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Indeed that's why they have accountant's, most of whom are prepared to state they will charge you less than they save you on tax and if they can't save on your tax, they won't charge, (they always charge).

:)

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As far as i am aware students who do give up will still have to repay a soon as they reach earnings of 15,ooo which in some time of their life will do.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

In less of course they stay on benefits.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Of course i guess we will always have that however at least they are earning their living and not sponging on taxpayers.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Oh well that dont make deception/theft as bad then does it.:rolleyes:

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If its genuine i am in full support of these people any of us may need this system genuinely some time in our lives just annoys me for example i know two people recently that have got incapacity benefit who have been able to con the system, nothing wrong with them and they admit it too.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Its certainly not good,but doesnt annoy me as much as the people who con the system,when they could work.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

No, I'm not that gullible, Margaret. Of course, all politicos say things off mic...political history is littered with notorious gaffes. And, no, I don't want to listen to all of Gordon Brown's conversations. However, comments like this provide a fascinating insight into a politician's real views and his views of the electorate he hopes to represent.

Whether his views are "senseless" or not...well, that's a matter of opinion, isn't it? I can guarantee that sections of tomorrow's leftwing press and various commentators will put forward the view that he was quite right and that this woman expressed views which were bigoted. Personally, I think that people who consistently express negative views about immigrants are displaying signs of bigotry, but my views count for nothing, because I'm not asking you to elect me as PM and that's another argument, anyway.

However, I do think he's scored rather a large own goal here, all thanks to his own stupidity. Don't reckon it'll make any difference to Graham's vote, though.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Well I bet like me, you know one that hasn't, (and probably doesn't intend to).

Nowt but criminal if you ask me.
:(

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Oh dear! the Prime Minister is finally revealed as a cowboy, in Rochdale of all places.

Still, this may well put the immigration issue back on the map. I know the Sun was due to run on this at the beginning of next week (with the emphasis on Clegg's amnesty policy) but this could well advance the debate, on top of Brown's gaffe.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Of course you will always get them but they will never get on in life.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Wynonie, not for a moment do I think you are that gullible(you have proved you aren't with many of your postings)........and I do appreciate your point, but I still think that there are things that politicians discuss that we would not benefit from hearing.

Mr Brown was obviously rattled by a staunch, life-long Labour party supporter taking him to task about his obvious failings....and having little in the way of answers to placate her, he lost the plot once he thought she was out of earshot.

Gillian Duffy aired the issues that she was concerned about...the PM had no satisfactory answer for her.
Politics is all about telling the electorate what they(the politicians) think we want to hear...it isn't about what is real and what is right....that wouldn't win any votes.

Gordon Brown has done himself and his party no favours at all....and all the apologies in the world will not make the headlines any easier for him tomorow.

As you rightly observed.....own goal, right in the back of the net.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

That's what makes it all the more fascinating when the mask momentarily slips and we hear what they really think. What shocked me was not what he said, but the tone of utter, dismissive contempt in his voice directed at a lifelong Labour supporter...but I suppose I shouldn't be shocked by now.

Right, Margaret, May 6th, you get your hatpin, I'm off to the pub! Use your vote wisely! :rolleyes: :D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Oh No, the hatpin method has been consigned to the dustbin......I will put a cross against every name on the paper...to my daughter absolute horror......she is trying to convert me to act sensibly and vote properly....so far she is losing!

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Act sensibly and vote properly? Never! :D

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Wounded I am.....cut to the quick:D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Then go all the way...when you are in the polling station next Thursday, vote, get your paper, fold it up, and then right before you stick it in the ballot box use a fag lighter and light the bottom right hand corner and insert in said box.

Then run like hell.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Come on Tealeaf...even a very unfit bobby would catch me on his worst day and on my best day.......I am one of these coffin dodgers you know:D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

You could get one of Robinson's coaches to wait outside the polling station with its engine revving and use it as your getaway vehicle.:D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

From a neighbouring forum, up Shillelagh's way:

Who will you be voting for in the 2010 Rossendale & Darwen Elections?

Janet Anderson - Labour - 8.70%
2 Votes
Jake Berry - Conservative - 52.17%
12 Votes
Bob Sheffield - Lib Dems - 8.70%
2 Votes
Kevin Bryan - National Front - 4.35%
1 Vote
David Duthrie - UKIP - 4.35%
1 Vote
Michael Johnson - English Democrats - 0%
0 Votes
Tony Melia - Impact - 4.35%
1 Vote
Mike Shiven - Independent - 4.35%
1 Vote
None of the above / Not voting - 13.04%
3 Votes

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

one of the votes for the none of the above is mine .. and if you read the thread on rossendale online i put my reason why .. because im not in that constituency .. im in hyndburns ..

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

What a good idea.......have you been reading my blog ?:D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

The Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not get caught

On a basic level you should always treat every microphone as if it's live but if the public are naive enough to think that the other candidates aren't doing the same thing in private then they need a little wake up call.

I'm surprised at the BBC reporting it in such a sensationalist way though. As I commented to them only a few days ago, they're behaving like a commercial channel desperate for viewers.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Both myself and Mrs. Yerself have received separate individually addressed election leaflets from the Labour party, whilst the Conservative party sent one, addressed to us both. Is this an insight to how the parties will spend public money and how one party will achieve spending cuts through being more efficient?

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

All campaign literature (certainly from Labour) is sent out with party funds. We all pays subs each month and this goes towards printing costs, etc.

The individual leaflets are a simple matter of trying to reach voter in the borough rather than just every household. If the person who gets a leaflet through the door bins it straight then away another voter in the house who may well be interested will not see it.

It all boils down to an extra effort to try and persuade people to vote Labour but it never costs the public a penny.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I wasn't suggesting the leaflets were funded by public money but asking if this was a pointer as to how each party would spend public money should they form the next government.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I'm fairly sure that election leaflets or anything self-promoting for the party cannot be funded by public money.

Except the Hyndburn calendar, of course.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

You've still missed the point. I'm not suggesting party publicity is funded by public money. I'm talking about how parties would spend/waste public money in general, should they get into power.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

well Hyndburns calendar should give ya a good indication as that WAS public money.:rolleyes:

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Bloody hell Margaret, it looks like we are both affiliated to the same political party now, that's just how I've voted:D my vote is already in so I can't change my mind now:D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

On checking Microphones ask Ron Atkinson:D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Could be interesting when it comes to the accounting at the end of the election yerself, maybe the local Labour Party are using the Gordon Brown/Alistair Darling Accounting System, and we all know how well that works:rolleyes:

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Don't forget there is also a ceiling on how much a candidate can spend, and when your actually sending out 8 page leaflets, one has to wonder, even if the cost is born my the individual, the amount has to be included on the official return to the Returning Officer

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Got news for you, Ken. The public aren't naive enough to think that other candidates aren't doing the same thing. The public are well sussed enough to know that all the political parties regard them as mug punters. That's why they won't believe the lies that'll be peddled tonight about the economy and spending cuts, and that's why there is such a widespread mood of cynicism in the country.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I thought that was an official HBC publication. Are you trying to suggest it was Tory propaganda?:rolleyes:

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I'd never have put you down as a cynic Wyn:rolleyes::D

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I see Jack was on his soapbox helping Graham in Accy Town Centre this morn....perhaps Gordon's had enough of Lancashire for the moment!!:D


Best Regards - Taggy

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hope not, that kinda help he don't need.:eek:

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I gave him some of my pills John :D

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They come into the town in gangs of one and two.....

A disgraceful political gathering, and after they were banned elsewhere too ;)

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So many :eek::rolleyes::D

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I've just seen that Steve, don't quite know why I missed it first time around but what do you mean?

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I'm just surprised that you're predicting Graham will only scrape in with 1-200 votes after a recount. I have much more faith in him than that. The impression I get from people I know and on this board is that Graham is a well-respected person who has the area's interests at heart. I know there'll be a swing against your lot nationwide, perhaps even more so after yesterday's events, but I reckon Graham's local standing, combined with local Tory unrest will be enough to see him elected reasonably comfortably. I'd even put money on it if I could get decent odds! ;)

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Firstly, how do you know how I voted?

Secondly, I'm fairly sure I went for the 'Labour majority falls' option. That was the intention anyway!

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Sorry, I've just worked it out.

Well that wasn't actually my intended choice so I've slipped up there.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I hope your Hyndburn Election predictions are better than your Stanley predictions Mr H.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Strewth, Ken! I hope you don't make any slip ups like that next Thursday...you could end up voting for Kazzer...or even worse, Kev the Rev! :eek:

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Take heart, young Bernard...I actually won the Stanley prediction league about four seasons ago, so I am right sometimes! ;)

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

yer in exaulted company, brown did yesterday.:D

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As quite a few members of this forum know, not only am a Labour councillor but also Chair of the Hyndburn Constituency Labour Party and this post is addressed directly to Jaysay.

I hope you can back up the accusation (which could be construed as libelous) that you have just leveled against the Hyndburn Constituency Labour Party's integrity regarding election expenses, as you appear to be suggesting that there will be financial irregularities in the completion of the expenses forms.

As you are no doubt aware there are two separate parts to this years General Election spending limits. These limits are as follows-
In the 'Long' campaign (which ran from 1/1/2010 to the date of dissolution 12/4/2010) is £25000 (per constituency) + 5p per elector.
In the 'Short' campaign (which runs from 13/4/2010 to 6/05/2010) is £7150 (per constituency) + 5p per elector.

Also, as you no doubt know the expense forms for all candidates at the General Election will be checked by the Electoral Commission.

Maybe you could provide me with proof that Hyndburn Constituency Labour Party have exceeded these spending limits.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I'll put it down to the lack of Earl Grey in the thinking engine last week.

I've actually already marked my postal vote so there's no worries on that score.

(double checks)

No, everything is fine now. I'd say 'normal service has been resumed' but that means four more years of Tory inactivity in Rishton.

Dear God, no.....

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

You have no need to go into all the diatribe, I am quite aware of rules and regulation where election Expenses are concerned, I was merely say that when 8 page leaflets are being distributed and having some idea on costs, it made me wonder, see that all Labours Printing is undertaken by Daltons who are probably the best printers in Hyndburn, I was only raising a valid point as printing isn't cheap these days

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

There's an interesting article here about a politician from a foreign country coming over to tell people who to vote for.

BBC News - Chasing the UK vote in Pakistan's 'Little Britain'

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

Anyway, who's up for a running commentary as the night progresses? All you need is plenty of booze, a packet of fags and the TV tuned in to BBC, ITV or SKY.

K.O. 9.55pm.

This election should be fun.

Yeah...I forgot...keep yer computer switched on and tuned in to this site.

Re: Election - Place yer bets.
 

I'm up for it ... 'cause I got time on my hands and time on my side:D ... I got lots of beer and vodka .... and some gin, just in case the tories come on big:eek: ... don't smoke too many "fags", but I have lots of weed and my Yoda bong .... tuned into CBC; mostly, the comments are about a "hung parliament" and why you guys are so concerned about one .... and lots of comments about what has to come after the election, whoever wins. Seems like your economy is right down there with the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain).

You guys could move this discussion to Chat.

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Sorry tealeaf .. i wont be here .. im off to the count at the sports centre .. :D