This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Terror Suspects Win Appeal To Stay In Britain | UK & World News | Orange UK, yep seems to be really making a differance n sorting things out.:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

That might have something to do with the fact that the legislation is that passed by the last government......the new Parliament has only re-convened today....so they haven't had chance to rescind any of the legisaltion passed by the previous incumbents.......but to be honest I wouldn't hold yor breath.

Another kick in the teeth
 

BBC News - 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
Another kick in the teeth for British Justis, even though one of these men is an Al-qaeda operative he can't be deported because he would be torchered back in Pakistan, no doubt he will join the endless number of people who hate our guts but are quite prepared to let out taxes keep them, as in the case of captain hook and his brood. :mad:

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

Never mind John....at least we know they will be 'stigmatised for life'....wonder how much that'll cost us then......some Human rights lawyer is bound to jump on the gravy train to get them some cash.....courtesy of us shmucks.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Maybe Neil or mick will merge this with a thread I've just opened, although its a different angle

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

I believe Mrs Blair is available Margaret:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Have merged them for you, as same topic but different take on it LOL:D

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Thank you

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Con-Dem-ned is the new official title Cashy, for the Coalition

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

"As the court agreed, they are a security risk to the UK. We are now taking all possible measures to ensure they do not engage in terrorist activity."

They aren't British nationals, but here on student visas, pose a risk to the security of the country, yet have won the right to stay here?

Give us strength.

There are lots of people in the world who could face torture in their own countries, are they all to be given residency in the U.K?

If they'd chosen to live an honest life, and not involve themselves with terrorist groups, their lives wouldn't be threatened, yet our's are, now they are free to stay here indefinitely.

Personally I couldn't give two hoots what threats they face in their homeland.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

The most telling comment is from our new Home Secretary, Theresa May: "Protecting the public is the Government's top priority.

"We are disappointed that the court has ruled that Abid Naseer and Ahmad Faraz Khan should not be deported to Pakistan, which we were seeking on national security grounds.

"As the court agreed, they are a security risk to the UK. We are now taking all possible measures to ensure they do not engage in terrorist activity."

So, in other words, the government are just going to meekly accept this decision and spend large amounts of our money monitoring them, while making cuts elsewhere.

What she should have said is: "We're going to take urgent steps to repeal this legislation and start sending people like this back to their country of origin. The interests and well being of the ordinary people of this country, whatever their race, culture or religion are far more important to us than any possible risk to these inidividuals in their home countries."

But, of course, that's too much to hope for, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

It's good, but I'm sticking with Dem Cons.

:D

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I like Dem Cons as well. And you probably made that one up yourself. I got mine of Facebook.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I think Steven Foster may have written a song about them.

Dem cons,
Dem cons,
Dem durty cons.

Dem cons,
Dem cons,
Dem durty cons.

Dem conned us all down da Swaneeeeeeee river.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/106500...nstrels300.jpg

:D

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

It's no good exclusively "con-dem-ing" them for all this, Bernard. As Margaret quite rightly says, your government introduced this piece of legislation in the first place!

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

its quite simple to me, the safety of suspected terrorists is paramount, whilst the british public can go get stuffed.:mad:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I wasn't really referring to any particular piece of legislation. I was being more general really.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Well, while you're here perhaps you'd care to comment on it?

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I would agree with most of the comments. He should be deported.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

If only we had people like you in the government!

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Don't be silly, they would never want n honest man.:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I have news for Teresa May...disappointed doesn't cut it.......they are illegal......that means they have no rights........no rights to be here, no right to appeal.
And as for monitoring them to ensure that they aren't 'naughty' again....well, I don't trust them to do that right either.
As Wyn so aptly observes, it is going to cost money to monitor them......something that is going to be in short supply in the coming months(remember we have bills to pay, debts to service)....so where is this money coming from then? You guessed...our pockets.
Send the blighters back to where they came from and let them take their chances......either that or give them 28 days to find a country that will adopt them.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Yeah, I know, an honest politician - a contradiction in terms.

I'll be very interested to hear our new PM's comment on this situation (if he makes one at all). :rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Party manifestos should be legally binding.
I'm sure I read somewhere that the Tory party wanted to repeal the Human Rights Act.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Whilst ya said they have only recovened parliment, this post is the reason fer my thread title, cos i honestly believe, just as labour did -they will do beggar all about re-pealing this. come on Cameron make me eat humble pie!:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I think we should all be e-mailing Teresa May...she says that public safety is her top priority....how can this be so when a court recognises that this pair are still a danger to the country, but Teresa May is not willing to challenge the SIAC ruling?

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Theresa May MP

And just in case you feel like dropping her a line to tell her how 'disappointed' you are with her performance so far......above is her website address.
Click on the bit that says 'get in touch'

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Should be hilarious as the Libs were Dead against repealing the act.:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

just been on news Theresas NOT appealing.:( what a surprise.:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Yes Cashy, that is why I put the link up to her website...so that folk can express their disappointment...and ask her where the money is coming from to monitor these two would be terrorists....after all she really does want us all to be safe......if that wasn't so serious it would be funny.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I wonder if our lads in "Afghanistan" who after all are British Subjects, are aware of the fact, that those who are trying to kill em, have n Higher Value on Human Rights in Britain, than they do.:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Thanks have e-mailed the Home Office.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Power Cashy......good on yer!

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Joined the Cashy Club, as to the content, see for yourselves.

Oh well done, not 5 minutes into the job & the present government is backsliding already. It is immaterial to myself & many others what awaits these creatures on their repatriation to Pakistan. Did they give any thought to the results of their plans on the innocents of the UK, had they succeeded in carrying out their intentions ? NO, so why should we care about them ?

You & your ilk, safely ensconsed in your guilded palaces are so truely out of touch with the folk on the street you send our young lads & lasses away to be killed & maimed but that's ok, actually no it's not ! What of their human rights ? Oh I see it's to bring democracy to a Country like Afghanistan, what like our democracy ?

You say you're disappointed with the result ? disappointed ? no dis appointment is not getting the CD you wanted, what we have here is treachery & treason from the political classes to our Country. Not only are you subjecting our Country & its innocent population to the threat of terror but also the indignity of having to pay for the priviledge aswell.

I hope to God you never lose site of these filth, because if they succeed in their aims, you & the rest of the spineless puppets obeying edicts from Brussels should hang your heads for shame & the Blood of the innocents will be smeared across your consciences & toothless politics.

With gravest misgivings
One of the legion of despairing citizens

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Well said Dave....karma when I can give it!

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

I have to disagree with this, particularly on the question of delivering a person into the probability of torture. I am able to express my opinion in a public forum because I have the advantage, as do you, of living in a civilised, democratic country. And civilised, democratic countries do not hand over those in their custody and care to authorities who will torture them. The Canadian government has recently been ordered by the Speaker of the House of Commons to hand over documents relating to the transfer of Afghan detainees, by Canadian troops, to the Afghan authorities. They were tortured by the Afghani military and police. This is a major crisis for the tories. The Minister of Defence, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs could be found in contempt of Parliament for trying to cover up ... but, to cut a long story short, civilised nations do not hand over people to torture.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Sorry Eric, but I can't wholly agree with you, handing over of innocents to a regime who would torture them I can't accept. But the handing over of Filth who would happily kill maim & disfigure innocents in a Country that has allowed them in, whole different ball game ! Their intentions for this Country from my point of view denies them the recourse to any sympathy & especially not the twisted & warped sense that the Human rights bill is being applied in this case.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

From their inception, civilized democratic nations have condemned torture. The rejection of torture as a means of interrogation is the seed of the Fifth Ammendment to the American Constitution. However, my bottom line is: handing over anyone, guilty or innocent, to torture is wrong. Throw them in the slammer for the rest of their born natural, I don't care; but, torture, no.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Again I can see your point but cannot agree. why should we have to have them costing the tax payer thousands forever & a day as they languish in one of the UKs already overcrowded prisons ? There avowed intent was to wreak destruction & death on a Country, who opened the doors & let them in.

Ranting on about Jihad while free & at large but as soon as he's caught the tune changes to one of that familiar bleating "Human rights". He was one of several involved the rest went back voluntarily with the exception of Abid Naseer & one other. So why weren't they concerned as to their impending fate at the hands of the Pakistan authorities ? Surely the same fate awaited them ?

No, Cynically this creature, cried foul & was given the right to remain to the disgust of many. Furthermore there was no guarantee that he would be tortured it is merely a presumption.

The Special Immigration and Appeals Commission said it was satisfied Abid Naseer, the alleged ring-leader, was behind an “imminent” al-Qaeda backed plot but said he risked being tortured if he was returned to Pakistan.

"He risked" not he would be & there lies our difference, I would willingly send him back to face whatever may be his fate because he had no compunction as to the fates of British innocents. So as stated, I cannot agree with you on this one.

I feel this way because I have seen firsthand the destruction terrorism brings during my service in NI in the 80's. I feel that maybe you have not been confronted with this particular injustice, had you experienced it, I feel your views would possibly be similar to mine.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Could not disagree with you more. These are people who have been deemed by the security services to be a danger to this country. If they didn't want to be tortured, they should not have chosen the path they did. They should be sent back to their country of origin ASAP. End of. :mad:

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

Through a charity I've recently come into contact with someone who farmed in Zimbabwe.

He was shot, and stabbed, I've seen the scars, and his daughter was threatened with rape, because the gang that attacked their legally owned farm thought having sex with a virgin would cure A.I.D.S.

They managed to flee the farm with a suitcase and the equivalent of fifteen pounds, and make their way to the British Embassy.

Even though this man had been born in Britain, as had his parents and grandparents, because he had Zimbabwean nationality they refused him and his family any help at all.

Luckily his wife's parents were Italian, and the Italian Embassy organised safe passage to Italy, and because of the E.U. they were able to travel to the U.K., and make their way to Lancashire, where they had relatives who'd house them.

These people were tortured, and had neighbours who were killed, through no fault of their own, other than they happened to be white.

If someone chooses to decide to join a political group such as Al-Qaeda, and then claims this puts them in danger in their homeland, that is their choice.

Though I'd refute the claim they'd face any threat of torture if they were deported. More likely they'd be back in the many training camps, teaching the skills needed to be a successful terrorist, within hours of the plane landing.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

'Over the following weeks and months agents would gather evidence which left no doubt that Muslim fanatics were not only planning to blow up shopping centres in Manchester, but were also connected to a planned attack on New York’s transport network which would have been the worst US atrocity since 9/11.'
Arrest of 'Easter bombers' led to international al-Qaeda network - Telegraph

Something to look forward to, whilst they enjoy their 'freedom' in Britain, after being allowed to stay here, and plan their next attacks.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Because these men say they would be abused and tortured is not a fact.....they can say anything they want. They would probably go on to train more terrorists and advise them on how to get into the UK.
These men manipulated the system to get into Britain.....one of them worked for a company where he would have easy access to chemicals that would allow him to manufacture a bomb.
I think that perhaps Teresa May has forgotten that she is now in government as opposed to being in opposition - this means that the ball is in her court.
surely as Home Secretary she has a duty to protect the population of this country....to ensure that we are as safe as we can possibly be.
If she had still been on the opposition benches and come out with a statement which said she was 'disappointed' in the outcome of the appeal, then it would have been understandable......but to say that as the current home secretary is appalling.
Her first line of action should be to appeal against the ruling, then get the legislation that allows for this kind of thing to be repealed.
Since when has the Human rights of a terrorist taken precedence of the human rights of the whole country.
Boot them out! We are sending the wrong message to the terrorists of the world......it is saying 'Come to the UK...we'll look after you'

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

There's no listing on Amnesty International's site about members of Al-Qaeda being tortured or killed in Pakistan. Though their are cases in which those who oppose the Taleban have been killed.

Pakistan | Amnesty International

Be interesting to see what evidence was supplied to the court, about the perceived threat of torture, if these terrorists in waiting were deported.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Ever been Had, springs to mind.:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Why is everyone getting so upset about the decision to free these guys? Afterall, it is we the taxpayers who - despite all the likely restrictions on spending in the NHS, Education, Policing - have still managed to find the money to fund their successful appeal.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Yes and we will be paying for this so called monitoring while ever they are permitted to stay. Galling isn't it?
Perhaps we should let these two guys chosse........either you go home to Pakistan and take your chances or you can face a firing squad here.
I think that would galvanize them into some sort of action.....but it would offend the blleeding heart liberals,human rights activists and the do-gooders.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

So thats where you've been hiding for the last few months, unable to comment on the out going shower of yours:D

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

People who live by the sword die by the sword, they don't give a toss when they are bowing up tube trains and buses, in the name of Al-Qaeda, why should we keep them here (and I mean keep them) if they had been decent law abiding citizens they'd be welcome, they're not so sod of and suffer the consequences

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

To these monsters,innocent Men,Women,Children, of any colour.religion, are Legitimate Targets, i had a brief period of thinking your way Eric, it was the Summer Of Love, Ganja played a significant part,I was in my Teens, WHats Your Excuse?:(

Re: This Coalition seems to be working.
 

Half of which sit on the judiciary benches throughout the country:(

Re: This Coalition seems to be working.
 

...and quite a lot who sit in the present government!

Re: This Coalition seems to be working.
 

Every Government;)

Re: This Coalition seems to be working.
 

It's the government that's in now that counts - ie, your lot! ;)

Re: This Coalition seems to be working.
 

Well seeing they're only in their second day, I think I'll give um to the end of the week Wyn:D

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Paris has just e-mailed the Home office, lets hope many do also.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Put Teresa Mays Website up purely for that purpose.

And to Eric I would say......do you mind then if we send these wannabe terrorist to you then?

I think the mind set changed quite a lot after the 7/7 bombings.

You have great difficulty in controlling an enemy(and that is what these young men are) who has an outpost in the heart of your country.
Theresa May MP here it is again for those who missed it.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

http://www.paulrutherford.com/wp-con...es-300x230.jpg

She may walk the walk, but Theresa May certainly doesn't talk the talk.

Definitely less a big cat, and more of a pussy, when it comes to standing up for what the vast majority of Britain expects of her.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Perhaps we should set them free to carry on their lifes work. Next time they may kill someone close to you or someone you know. Were you ever in the forces or been in harms way. Maybe then you would have a different point of view. Like they say. If you cant stand behind our troops then feel free to stand in front of them

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

Absolutely nothing to do with the Summer of Love ... it's just that I'm opposed to torture ... particularly as these days torture is used not necessarily to gain information, but for the entertainment of the torturer ... and one needs no excuse at all to hold the position that torture is wrong, and according to various international conventions ... the Geneva Convention comes to mind ... illegal. For example, not only is it illegal for Canadian soldiers to torture Afghani detainees, it also contravenes International, and Canadian laws to hand over detainees into the custody of those who it is believed will torture them. And so, after that brief period of thinking, you have lapsed into an ill thought out knee jerk reaction mode which is willing to sacrifice basic humanity for a little vengence. Maybe the authorities over there could save themselves a little money and do the torturing themselves ... put it on tv so that everyone can share the fun.

Terrorists and other assorted scumbags are a fact of life in these troubled times. When they break the law; they should be tried and punished according to the law.

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

perhaps your laws in Canada are more robust.

Do you then condone, the accommodation of men who give nothing to the country that they themselves have come to, for the prime purpose of committing atrocities against the hosts.

An eminent Judge ruled that these men posed a risk....and still do pose a risk to the security of this country, but yet he gave them the right to be protected in this country....the country that they seemingly despise.
Do you consider that to be justice?

They say that they will be abused and tortured...but then they lied to get into the country...purporting to be students, but dropping out of studies soon after enrolment.
One of them gained employment in a company that produced chemicals(hairdressing supplies)....chemicals that he would have blown the centre of Manchester up with......at the Easter holiday when it would be full of people.
Yet, we are expected with good grace to accept this ruling and pay for the monitoring of these terrorists...this at a time when we are being expected to tighten our belts.

It is galling in the extreme to find that our Home Secretary(newly in post) is 'disappointed' and has no plans to challenge this ruling.

It sends out the message to the world 'terrorists...find a welcome in the UK, they will look after your every need'
Not good!

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

Spot on Eric... these people should be tried and punished according to the law... British law...possibly the greatest distinction between us and the fanatical nutcases like the Taliban or Al-Quada is that we are civillized and have standards which those nutters are trying to destroy.
Some of the abuses of our Human Right laws are hard to swallow.. but I'd rather that than stoop as low as those scumbags we are at war with.

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

Why have these bods not been prosecuted as terrorists?...if there is even the slightest evidence that these people intended to bomb and kill then I don't understand why they have not been charged...I would not accept any of this rubbish about not having enough evidence to prosecute these people, if there is ANY evidence they should be tried by a jury of British men and women.

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

From what I've observed, our laws on this issue are much like yours. And I'm surprised that you can twist my opposition to torture as condoning the accomodation of terrorists. I link my detestation of torture with a whole bunch of other, related opinions: I'm opposed to genocide, the recruitment of child soldiers, the use of rape as a weopon of war, racism, homophobia, poverty and starvation ... and numerous other things that happen in countries which do not have the benefit of the civilising effects of the rule of law.

Within living memory, the British and their allies sat in judgement at Nuremburg and determined that the flouting of international conventions, the murder of millions of Jews, Russina POWs, homosexuals, gypsies, the mentally handicapped, and, in general, anyone who objected the the way they did things, the enslavement and torture of civilians, was not only abhorrent, but illegal. And that not even the actions and commands of a legally constituted government could make them acceptable in any sense ... in other words, "I was merely obeying orders" is neither excuse nor defense.

I do know from what I read and hear in our media that the Canadian troops fighting in Afghanistan do, in general, believe in what they are fighting for: to bring peace, security, and the rule of law for the Afghan people.

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

O.K. i dont accept these bods would be tortured if returned to Pakistan! Do You? its beyond reasonable doubt they are liars, also Amnesty International have NO information about Al Quidea or Taliban supporters being Tortured, yet they got plenty about "Anti" Taliban etc being. seems to me a case of believe what suits.:rolleyes:

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

To be honest if these bods have been planning to blow people up I couldn't give a toss if they are beaten to death... but only within our law.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

It was for technical reasons......originally there were 12 arrests......10 of the terrorists returned to Pakistan voluntarily.......so that is what makes me doubt the claims that these men make that they would be subject to abuse and torture.

The police had a surveillance operation in place, but some police top brass allowed the sensitive information to get into the public domain(he was later relieved of his post)....the police had to bring the operation forward and there were simultaneous raids in Liverpool, Manchester and across the north west.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Eric I applaud your moral stance, it is to be commended. But being a Canadian citizen the threat levels your Country experience are far lower than ours in the UK. From 1969 we've had dealings with terrorists (Northern Ireland) which have only really died down in the last few years but there is an underlying simmering resentment.

And from our first excursion into Iraq then later Afghanistan (1990 - ????) we've also had to contend with Muslim extremists & Al Queda threatening our Land, you see we have a long history of being threatened so our moral sites may be a little more jaded than those Countries who haven't had quite so many dealings with the pain & misery terrorists & terrorism causes. That I think you'll find is why most of the views of the folk on here are as they are.

For us in the UK it is a "very real & prominent threat" to coin a phrase. It is good to be able to have high moral standards but put yourself in our very British shoes & you'll see why we feel as we do.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Eric, I was not twisting anything......I merely asked a question....and you have answered that question.

I just don't see how the rights of two men who came to the UK with the intent of blowing as many folk into the next world as they could, can equate with the rights of the many, who are now being asked to support(financially) their monitoring in this country, without a challenge to that ruling...as they still pose a risk to the population.

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

I couldn't care less what happens to then and under whose law it happens, as long as they're shipped out of this country...but, then again, I place far more importance on the protection of innocent people (of any nationality) than I do on the protection of would-be terrorists. :rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Eric, I also believe that there is adifference when you are fighting the enemy in their own land, but when they have an outpost in your own country it is a little bit different.
There is nothing at all to say that these men will not radicalise other young muslim men to do what they failed to do......blow up Manchester Town Centre.

Re: Another kick in the teeth
 

I am 100% in agreement with you there Wyn.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

It does not equate.. but that is the law in this land..and I'd rather have the law in my land than any other ... there is no excuse for these people not being charged and put on trail for their evil doings no matter what Government we had or have.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

can ya compare it to the law in any other land Mancie? i can n i dont prefer ours. though i thought same as you until i lived there.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Mancie, it might be the law of the land, but they were awarded their right to stay by the court of appeal....this ruling can (and should) be challenged by the Home Secretary...especially as the judge made the comment that 'they were and still do pose a risk to security'.
It should have to be proved beyond any doubt that they would be tortured if they were returned to Pakistan.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Manchester town centre was blown up by Irish Catholics 15ys ago.. but it's all forgotten now days.:rolleyes:

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

You are wrong Mancie...it isn't fogotten at all.
I was supposed to be going to Manchester on that day to choose an outfit for a wedding, as it was, I couldn't go.....I was required to do a night shift as one of my nurses had gone sick....If I had gone to Manchester that day I would not be here now.
I remember it every time I go into the city centre.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

We have those same "outposts" here ... members of a terrorist cell known as the "Toronto 18" ... some have been tried and convicted, others are awaiting trial ... and all according to our laws.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

are your laws as soft n stupid though eric, also sentences? as mancie said ALL should be tried, but don't work like that here. also mancie i have a friend from swinton who's daughter was disabled in the manchester bombing, maybe the medias forgot, the people certainly aint.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

and if convicted will they then be deported?

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Crikey, Mancie, how can you tell you're a plastic Manc? I live here and, believe me, it isn't forgotten!

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

When I say forgotten... I mean not mentioned these days because it is not PC to slag off the "Irish freedom fighters".. Manchester, Guilford, Warrington, Birmigham and any other were carried out by religous political fanatics that had a gripe with Britian... same as Al-Quada... some of these murderding slags were tried and sentenced under British law some were not... I don't see any difference.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

funnily enough, n ya may find it hard to believe, but i aint very P.C. in fact was only a few weeks ago had a heated discussion about that very thing. quite a few were in earshot, nobody objected.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

No they won't be deported; they are Canadians .... they will serve time in prison.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Then are ya saying you have a land wi nowt only Canadian Residents living yon? cos we sure as hell aint.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

That's the sort of bigoted, blind prejudice we've come to expect from you.

The kind of idocy that tries to equate that because Islam is used as an excuse by extremist terrorists, all Muslims are to blame, when the vast majority are law abiding citizens, who abhor these atrocities, just like everyone else.

Manchester was bombed by the Provisional I.R.A.

An extremist group. Just like Al-Qaeda

Not by 'Irish Catholics'.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

Also whilst some of these murdering terrorists "Were" jailed in the 80s mancie, ya omitted to mention those poor sods that were "Fitted" Up by this good ole British Justice yer so keen on.:rolleyes: think mancies gone fer a drink whilst this 24 hrs is still around. pmsl.

Re: This Co-ilition seems to be working.
 

I realize that it grates on the nerves to have to accord those men the rights that are guaranteed to everyone in the UK; but, that's just one of the difficulties of democracy. Durinng the war, tens of thousands of German soldiers, sailors and airmen were held as POWs and accorded humane treatment at an immense cost ... no doubt many felt that these men, many of them responsible for bombing your cities, should be punished, starved, killed ... in the same way that the Germans were treating the Russian POWs. But it didn't happen. Because, if you are defending freedom and civilization, as Great Britain was, much of the time alone and under siege, you have to act in a civilized fashion ... or else, what's the point.

I'm not a starry-eyed idealist, or a "bleeding heart liberal", just someone who believes that democracy has to be more than rhetoric. If there's no substance, it's worth nothing. And it's the substance, having to act according to our expressed principles, that seems to cause the problems.

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'Should Britain be giving refuge to Islamic fundamentalists, while sending the men and women who have been brave enough to challenge Islamism back to their deaths? This sounds at first like a straw man question. Who would ever suggest such a policy? Who would defend it? But the facts suggest we are doing it, every day.'

'Kiana Firouz is a 27-year-old woman who grew up in revolutionary Iran, and slowly realised that if she ever acted on her natural impulses – to kiss and hold and love another woman – she would be subjected to a hundred lashes. If she did it again, she would be hanged, in a public square, before a jeering mob. But Kiana believed the freedom to fall in love was more important than her own safety. She stood up in Tehran and made a film showing that there are gay people there just as there are gay people everywhere, and they deserve to live and love freely. The police began following and threatening her. She knew what had happened to other gay Iranians – a bullet, a ditch, a lynch mob – so she came to a country she associated with freedom for gay people, Britain, and appealed to us to save her life.
We refused. The Home Office told her to go back to Iran and be "discreet" about her sexuality. But the law in Iran doesn't say discreet lesbians get out of jail free. They are tortured and killed just the same.'
Johann Hari: Islamists, their victims, and hypocrisy - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent

So, non-national students, whom there's evidence that they planned a terrorist kiling spree, are free to stay and walk the streets of Britain, yet an Iranian women tries to claim asylum, and is refused, and faces certain death when she's deported?

Some justice system.

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Find me any proof that Al-Qaeda operatives are tortured or killed in Pakistan, and you might have a case.

I can find no such evidence.

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Far from being a place where Al-Qaeda faces threat of torture, the Pakistan/Afghan border is a safe haven for any would be terrorist in training, or hiding.

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We have illegals here, but our government has strong laws concerning deportation. It's not all that easy to get Canadian citizenship, and it seems that the vast majority of new Canadians adopt our country wholeheartedly. By 2020, one third of all Canadians will belong to visible minorities (I don't really like the term, but you know what I mean) ... in TO, it will be 2 out of 3. However, most of them will be born here, and will probably think of themselves as "Canadians" rather than "Chinese (or qualifier of your choice) Canadians" ... now, Quebec is something else.:D

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These weren't British nationals.

They are Pakistanis, and had student visas, whilst here, and whilst planning their terrorist attacks.

They've been given the right to stay by a British court, because they claim they face the threat of torture or death, if deported to their homeland.

That is quite ludicrous, and there's not the slightest bit of evidence that it's remotely true.

As ususual, soft touch Britain, bends right over, and takes it like a demented, simple minded harlot.

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So, if they are Pakistani nationals, and they haven't commited a crime in Pakistan, then the threat of torture seems like a weak excuse. However, that doesn't affect my position on the question of torture. If your laws are similar to ours though, it would be illegal for them to be transferred to authorities who might torture them.

"Demented, simple minded harlot", eh .... didn't realize you were aquainted with my ex-wife:D

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Well known around here is your Eskimo Nell!
:)

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As stated, I've searched and can find no evidence that Al-Qaeda operators/sympathisers face any threat of torture, or death, in Pakistan.

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It is a weak excuse, and one that has been grasped as a last straw by the Human Rights lawyers, who acted for these men in their appeal.....lawyers who were paid for by our money(still, we have plenty so what does that matter?)....and our money is going to keep these men while they are here.
They had no right to be here...they entered on Student visas....and promptly dropped out of the university course.......any country with a half decent Border Agency would have spotted this and sent them away back home, but as our Border agency is a toothless affair, they were allowed to stay...and their visas were renewed because they signed up for other bogus courses when the Uni course ended...just so that they could bomb us....so in effect they were here illegally.
They profess to hate us, and would do us harm yet we are to protect them, rather than sending them back to their own country.......where I firmly believe they should be.

Our New Home secretary is being negligent in her duties by not challenging this ruling.
I feel like I am arguing round in circles here so I think this will have to be my last observation on this subject.

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These people aren't English Eric, they merely came here to kill innocent British citizens

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Eric It's alright to have noble high ideals but Something has to be done and if you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem. You aren't related to Neville Chamberlin are you.

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How moronic .... to view an opposition to torture as "noble" ... bs, it's all part of being human and humane ... and we follow this with a cheap cliche stolen from some third-rate marketing seminar ... and it is obvious that you know little of the time of "appeasement" ... this policy, particularly until late 1937, was supported, to some degree at least, by the majority of Conservative MPs, the Labour party (though they were opposed to the Fascist dictators as a point of principle, they were opposed to war), and the British public. Only with your keen hindsight can you see that it was wrong. Chamberlain seems to have become the fall guy for the millions of Britons who supported his policies. Maybe you meant to ask if I were related to Lord Halifax:rolleyes: