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-   -   Tough love. (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/tough-love-53596.html)

garinda 12-06-2010 17:57

Tough love.
 
'A TODDLER was left with 35 separate injuries inflicted by a heroin addict.
Mark Andrew Fisher, 23, of Belfield Road, Accrington, was only prevented from causing more harm to the child when the attacker's own mother shopped him to the police.'

Accrington man jailed for inflicting 35 injuries on a toddler (From This Is Lancashire)

Good for his mum.

I know for a fact if I ever did anything so evil my family would shop me straight away, as I would them.

There's too many excuses made for appalling behaviour, and heinous crimes.

When in reality there is no excuse for the sort of things this child endured.

AccyLass 12-06-2010 18:26

Re: Tough love.
 
And the poor childs mother?! Oh my god

Hopefully they get a longer sentence than the Thai's (I think) who starved their baby!

mumtotwo 12-06-2010 20:34

Re: Tough love.
 
People who hurt children on purpose deserve to be locked up for longer than 2 years, that child is going to have to deal with the mental problems it will cause for years to come!

cmonstanley 12-06-2010 20:35

Re: Tough love.
 
pure scum:mad:

cashman 12-06-2010 21:07

Re: Tough love.
 
Hope both get the crap kicked out of em, in nick.:(

yerself 12-06-2010 21:22

Re: Tough love.
 
Castrating the father and spaying the mother would be a more appropriate sentence in cases like this.

steeljack 12-06-2010 22:07

Re: Tough love.
 
Don't understand why the mothers identity was protected , the story said she was sent to prision so she's obviously an adult and not a minor :confused: :confused:

Mancie 12-06-2010 22:08

Re: Tough love.
 
We all know the sentence should be life.. and I mean life..and praise to the mother of this scumbag.

cashman 12-06-2010 22:20

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 822063)
We all know the sentence should be life.. and I mean life..and praise to the mother of this scumbag.

ya lost me wi that Mancie?:confused: why praise the mother? fer admitting cruelty?:confused: n getting jailed herself. ah sorry mate misunderstood ya mean the guys mam.

BERNADETTE 12-06-2010 23:10

Re: Tough love.
 
I think and I'm sure Mancie will correct me if I'm wrong he was praising the mother who shopped her son for inflicting these terrible injuries on this poor child. As for that piece of scum and the babies mother I hope they get all that they deserve (but in hindsight they won't as they will be protected) much as this poor child wasn't.

Mancie 12-06-2010 23:36

Re: Tough love.
 
Yes I'm praising the grandmother of the child who had the courage to bring this abuse out in the open.. so many cases like this have only come to light when the child has been killed.. seems it's only after a child has been killed that we get all the inquires and usually end up blaming social workers, some of the family or freinds of these abusers must have suspicions.. but say nowt.

BERNADETTE 12-06-2010 23:47

Re: Tough love.
 
But then again Mancie you get the other end of the spectrum where grandparents actually warn SS about the posiible danger to their grandchild/children which are ignored and then turn out to be accurate. Seems to me a bit of good old common sense should be the order but hey ho how would I know? In the meantime because SS prefer a child to be with "a biological parent" rather than in care more poor unfortunate kids need to suffer.

jaysay 13-06-2010 08:53

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 822075)
But then again Mancie you get the other end of the spectrum where grandparents actually warn SS about the posiible danger to their grandchild/children which are ignored and then turn out to be accurate. Seems to me a bit of good old common sense should be the order but hey ho how would I know? In the meantime because SS prefer a child to be with "a biological parent" rather than in care more poor unfortunate kids need to suffer.

And they are scared to death about breaching these scumbags Human Rights, to me anybody who inflicts injury of any sort on a child forfeit the right to be even classed as human, animals don't threat their young like this

cashman 13-06-2010 08:58

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 822086)
animals don't threat their young like this

Rubbish, your kids are well brought up.:D

jaysay 13-06-2010 09:48

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 822088)
Rubbish, your kids are well brought up.:D

Think the term is fotched up cashy:rolleyes:

jaysay 14-06-2010 09:50

Re: Tough love.
 
I know this is a bit off thread, but I know what I'd do with that 28 year old scumbag who dragged a 10 year old girl off the streets of Fleetwood and raped her, sod his rights I'd make sure he didn't do it again, he'd have nothing to do it with:mad::mad::mad:

garinda 14-06-2010 10:34

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 822323)
I know this is a bit off thread, but I know what I'd do with that 28 year old scumbag who dragged a 10 year old girl off the streets of Fleetwood and raped her, sod his rights I'd make sure he didn't do it again, he'd have nothing to do it with:mad::mad::mad:

Sadly there are cases in which paedophiles have gone on to abuse, and even rape further victims, after castration.

The only solution, whilst there is even the slightest risk of reoffending, is to be locked up securely, indefinitely, and away from society.

jaysay 14-06-2010 10:44

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 822342)
Sadly there are cases in which paedophiles have gone on to abuse, and even rape further victims, after castration.

The only solution, whilst there is even the slightest risk of reoffending, is to be locked up securely, indefinitely, and away from society.

Who said anything about castration, I'm thinking about George changing his name to Georgina, surgically:rolleyes:

garinda 14-06-2010 11:17

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 822354)
Who said anything about castration, I'm thinking about George changing his name to Georgina, surgically:rolleyes:

Even sadder is that women have abused children, including legally defined acts of rape.

You don't need a male appendage to inflict terrible injuries.

DaveinGermany 14-06-2010 16:29

Re: Tough love.
 
I've said it before & I don't care what people think, where these people are proved beyond doubt to have committed such offences as these, murder & continual abuse. No chance of rehabilitation, the only really effective answer is a good stout length of rope. The problem would be eradicated, they would never re-offend & the taxpayers money could be saved for something worthwhile & useful.

garinda 14-06-2010 16:33

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 822441)
I've said it before & I don't care what people think, where these people are proved beyond doubt to have committed such offences as these, murder & continual abuse, a good stout length of rope would suffice. The problem would be eradicated, they would never re-offend & the taxpayers money could be saved for something worthwhile & useful.

There's only one problem with that, you can't release those who've been wrongly hanged.

INNOCENT - casse of Stefan Kiszcko

Stefan Kiszko was found guilty of a terrible child murder, and was totally innocent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

DaveinGermany 14-06-2010 16:37

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 822442)
There's only one problem with that, you can't release those who've been wrongly hanged.

INNOCENT - casse of Stefan Kiszcko

Stefan Kiszko was found guilty of a terrible child murder, and was totally innocent.

Murder of Lesley Molseed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know & understand this, that is why I quantified my point with :-

where these people are proved beyond doubt

garinda 14-06-2010 16:45

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 822445)
I know & understand this, that is why I quantified my point with :-

where these people are proved beyond doubt

He was found guilty by twelve jurors, who arrived at their verdict, advised that they should only find him guilty, if they thought he did it, beyond all reasonable doubt.

cashman 14-06-2010 16:51

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 822451)
He was found guilty by twelve jurors, who arrived at their verdict, advised that they should only find him guilty, if they thought he did it, beyond all reasonable doubt.

That was one of quite a few miscarriages of justice, but would say i think reasonable doubt is easier to determine these days, D.N.A. n such advancements, so am all in favour of topping em.

DaveinGermany 14-06-2010 17:18

Re: Tough love.
 
Cashy has pretty much summed up my point. The case of Stefan Kiszcko as you pointed out was flawed, back in 1976 the Police & the Courts didn't have the wealth of Hi-Tec devices & gadgets available that we have today.

when admissible, the evidence gleaned from these methods is more than enough to prove the facts & that was the point I was making.

garinda 14-06-2010 23:02

Re: Tough love.
 
Well, although I detest and abhor evil crimes against children, you have stronger self convictions than myself.

Very often in horrific cases of abuse there is no physical evidence. Just the testament of the victim, if they are old enough to be questioned.

One of the most troubling days of my life was when, as forman of a jury, I had to stand and give a majority verdict, when I was more than sure the woman was innocent, but the rest of my fellow jurors didn't. Mainly based on irrational prejudice against the accused, rather than any actual evidence we'd heard.

I could never convict someone to die, because only being human, mistakes will happe and buried.

garinda 14-06-2010 23:06

Re: Tough love.
 
...and on a parting note, the horrific crimes committed by Hindley and Brady, were carried when there was still a death sentence, and was only abolished four weeks before their eventual arrests.

So how much of a deterrent it would be, on the pathologically evil, is open to question.

jaysay 15-06-2010 09:33

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 822456)
That was one of quite a few miscarriages of justice, but would say i think reasonable doubt is easier to determine these days, D.N.A. n such advancements, so am all in favour of topping em.

I quite often watch a program on satellite called Cold Case where cases that are shelved are reopened and convictions are gained through up-to-date DNA technology, DNA doesn't lie so now there are far fewer cases of wrongful convictions

cashman 15-06-2010 09:44

Re: Tough love.
 
i can quite understand a reluctance fer capital punishment, given the old days,was against meself, was miscarriges of justice, experts giving tainted evidence- re- the ira bombers on the mainland etc, but these days wi D.N.A. plus those who hold there hand up to horrendous crimes, can see no good reason, why it is not n option fer the judge.

garinda 15-06-2010 09:48

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 822527)
I quite often watch a program on satellite called Cold Case where cases that are shelved are reopened and convictions are gained through up-to-date DNA technology, DNA doesn't lie so now there are far fewer cases of wrongful convictions

There have been lots of convictions were the only evidence has been testament, including rape, and child abuse cases.

Some of those cases have been brought about because of Repressed Memory Syndrome, in which people didn't remember being abused until in therapy. Some of these convictions have since proved to be false.

However disgusting I find these crimes, I couldn't find someone guilty if they were to be executed.

As satisfying as it might be, and if it was children related to me I'd feel I wanted to hurt the evil gets myself, it would only be an act of revenge.

These crimes also occured when we had the death penalty, as seen by the Moors Murderers, but it didn't act as a deterrent.

The only answer is to lock them away forever, if there's the slightest chance they might harm anyone else.

There have been cases of teachers being accused and found guilty of abusing children, which were later found to be false.

Not much comfort to their families if when later proved innocent, if they're dead and buried.

Just my opinion, and it won't be swayed on this matter.

garinda 15-06-2010 09:57

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 822530)
i can quite understand a reluctance fer capital punishment, given the old days,was against meself, was miscarriges of justice, experts giving tainted evidence- re- the ira bombers on the mainland etc, but these days wi D.N.A. plus those who hold there hand up to horrendous crimes, can see no good reason, why it is not n option fer the judge.

There's doubts about some of the convictions resulting from Operation Ore, and some of those convicted might have been the victims of identity theft.

There was no definitive DNA or physical evidence of abuse in these cases.

Operation Ore: legal challenge to child abuse inquiry - Telegraph

Operation Ore - Jim Gamble

cashman 15-06-2010 10:10

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 822531)
There have been lots of convictions were the only evidence has been testament, including rape, and child abuse cases.

Some of those cases have been brought about because of Repressed Memory Syndrome, in which people didn't remember being abused until in therapy. Some of these convictions have since proved to be false.

However disgusting I find these crimes, I couldn't find someone guilty if they were to be executed.

As satisfying as it might be, and if it was children related to me I'd feel I wanted to hurt the evil gets myself, it would only be an act of revenge.

These crimes also occured when we had the death penalty, as seen by the Moors Murderers, but it didn't act as a deterrent.

The only answer is to lock them away forever, if there's the slightest chance they might harm anyone else.

There have been cases of teachers being accused and found guilty of abusing children, which were later found to be false.

Not much comfort to their families if when later proved innocent, if they're dead and buried.

Just my opinion, and it won't be swayed on this matter.

aint trying to sway ya mate, but what relation has any of that to D.N.A. evidence?:confused:

garinda 15-06-2010 10:12

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 822540)
aint trying to sway ya mate, but what relation has any of that to D.N.A. evidence?:confused:

Just the fact that people have been convicted of crimes against children in which there was no DNA evidence.

cashman 15-06-2010 10:17

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 822542)
Just the fact that people have been convicted of crimes against children in which there was no DNA evidence.

Agree but think that progress has been made, so that is no longer a factor.:confused:

Barrie Yates 15-06-2010 16:37

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 822544)
Agree but think that progress has been made, so that is no longer a factor.:confused:

Where evidence is indisputable - i.e. positive DNA or other scientific means, then I feel that the death penalty is fully justifiable, and I am of the opinion that this applies to both child abuse and murder.

DaveinGermany 15-06-2010 17:56

Re: Tough love.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 822493)
Well, although I detest and abhor evil crimes against children, you have stronger self convictions than myself.

No I wouldn't say so ! It's just that on this issue there are some of us who can't agree with your points of view. I wouldn't attempt to sway your opinion & I have respect for your stance (as I had for Eric on the torture issue), but I can't agree with you on this one.

As you also stated murders were being committed even when the Death penalty was an option, but here I would interject that the rate of murders & violent crimes has risen since the abolishment of said sentence. Therefore I do believe it had some deterrent effect, added to that those who were hung certainly were stopped from re-offending.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source...IOSBca_0hU9Ulw

specifically Chapter. VI in relation to crime. Like I said crime detection has come on in leaps & bounds since the earlier days of forensics, to todays ultra modern & hi-tec advances. The results speak for themselves as the bulk of modern crimes are solved with modern technologies & the convictions are sound, you yourself have advocated the use of modern methods on previous occasions.

garinda 16-06-2010 00:07

Re: Tough love.
 
'Darryl Gee was jailed in 2001 despite scant evidence to corroborate his accuser’s claims, which related to alleged incidents more than a decade earlier.'

“It all boiled down to one girl’s word against his, and the jury believed her,” she said. “That’s all it took to send my son to prison and it has left me very angry and grief stricken. I don’t think anyone should have to work alone with a child – it is just too easy for an allegation like this to be made.”

'His conviction was eventually quashed when his mother alerted the Criminal Cases Review Commission, which asked a leading psychiatrist to report on his accuser. The study cast doubt on her mental state. It also emerged that the girl, now 26, made similar allegations against another man, whose conviction was quashed earlier this year.'

DARRYL GEE COURT OF APPEAL PSYCHOLOGY SERIAL FALSE ACCUSATIONS ASSAULT RAPE CLAIMS

Sadly there are also some evil liars, whose actions mean more suffering for real victims of abuse, and also those they wrongly accuse, and are convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

cashman 16-06-2010 00:14

Re: Tough love.
 
surely though ones word is differant completely to D.N.A. evidence?:confused: to me thats "Bang to Rights"

garinda 16-06-2010 00:16

Re: Tough love.
 
'Mr Blackwell's ordeal began when his accuser, now 39, claimed she had been seized with a knife outside a village club early on New Year's Day 1999, taken to an alley and indecently assaulted.'

'She picked him out of an identity parade and a jury found him guilty, even though there was no forensic evidence and he had no previous convictions. His wife Tanya never doubted his innocence.'

'Eventually, the case was investigated by the Criminal Cases Review Commission which found his accuser had fabricated at least seven other allegations of sexual and physical assault. She frequently changed her name and police forces did not realise they were dealing with the same woman.'

Man wrongly jailed for three years charged £7,000 by Home Office for 'board and lodging'| News | This is London

Mancie 16-06-2010 00:36

Re: Tough love.
 
Don't agree the death penalty is any deterrent to a killer.. I don't see it as a something that might be in someones mind when they decide to kill wether it be in a "rush of blood" or even if it is planned....I don't think it's a factor for killers.
On the other hand for some crimes it seems the proper thing to do.

davebtelford 16-06-2010 06:11

Re: Tough love.
 
Don't know if it's it been said above but in the film 'Pierpoint' the hangman is quoted as saying "The death penalty never achieved anything except revenge".

I think some criminals should never be released but how do you justify wrongly executing an innocent person? Perhaps our criterion for conviction - no reasonable doubt - needs to be re-examined. If there IS no doubt i.e. caught in the act or incontrovertible DNA or other evidence then maybe capital punishment could be used.

But if it is (say) only 90% certain that the person is guilty then prison would be appropriate. i.e. we think he done it but we'll put him on ice in case something turns up which shows he didn't.


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