Born again Virgins
 

NHS pays for Brit Muslim virginity operations - Oneindia News
I don't really have problem with this, each to her own, but as for having the procedure done on the NHS at tax payers expense is a total nonsense, to say the least, when people are being denied life saving drugs for cancer and the like, this one thing which should not be available

Re: Born again Virgins
 

Is it me or have I got this wrong?,.....A virgin is someone who has NEVER had sex!, so replacing the hymen, to me, dosent make ya a virgin again!!, what a load of codswallop!:eek:

Re: Born again Virgins
 

Exactly panther, and we're paying for it

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my reply to this would make em blush in oer 18s so silence is best.:mad:

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This is just total...............................:eek:

Cannot say, but dont agree with it for one minute:mad:

Re: Born again Virgins
 

In 25 years as a nurse on the Gynae Unit I never saw this operation performed on the NHS....and my understanding of the situation is that most Muslim women who want this procedure performed, pay to have it done in the private sector........only those who can prove serious psychological trauma by being a non-virgin(is there such a thing?) get the operation on the NHS.

I would like to see the figures of how many of these ops have actually been performed.......I bet it isn't many.

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OK...looked at the figures.......116.....in the great scheme of things that isn't very many, well, not when you consider how many muslim women are currently living in this country.

Re: Born again Virgins
 

point is to my mind though thats 116 too many. how many suffering from cancer n such things cannot get the drugs they need cos of expense. ok it wouldn't balance it out, but still it would be money spent better in other areas.

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So there are at least 116 muslims that dont believe in muslim beliefs.

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Well of course, they are human, and subject to the desires of the flesh just like the rest of us......and it is OK for the men...there is nothing to test their virginity, but for a muslim woman it is a sin to have had carnal knowledge outside of marriage, and punishable by death....so called 'honour' killings. Brothers, uncles fathers..in fact any male relative feels it is their duty to absolve the sins of the girl by murdering her.

I would reckon that the 116 women who had this operation cited these thing to get it done on the NHS, but many others would raise the money somehow to have it done privately.

Muslim men can have their desires met, but women may not, because, due to physiology it is possible to tell if the woman has had previous experience....a very medieval concept.

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Honour killings are illegal in this country, so that don't come into it, live here accept our rules/laws n thats fine wi me, don't n sod off. simple as.

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Though illegal there have been cases of it. As far as they are concerned it is do as I say not as I do.

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well aware of that spugs,whats annoying is the elders never remonstrate about these acts, least not that ive noticed, which i find shameful.

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They never will it suits them to keep things as they are. Control freaks that is all they are and they have selective sight and hearing.

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Yes, of course they are, but they still happen.......the family 'torched' in Blackburn(wrongly) was a very recent incident.
But these honour killings do not always happen in this country. The errant women are often lured back to their country of origin(your grandma is ill...likely to die.....off goes the girl and is accosted not far from the airport and done to death).
I am not saying that I agree with these operations......I don't because repairing a perforated hymen does not make you a virgin again......but proof of virginity is required in a muslim marriage.......there has to be blood on the sheets to prove purity.
I am just explaining how the women come to get the operation done on the NHS.....but I have never seen one done in the quarter of a century that I worked on the gynae unit.

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I think it is the clash of cultures and wanting to have what we have while still honouring their religious obligations.

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I don't care what the argument is or that there are only 116 known operations have been carried out on the NHS, 1 is too many for me, its on the same lines as cosmetic surgery, if you want it pay for it

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I agree but the way the NHS is set up then if there are issues that are causing serious mental distress then they are duty bound to help. Even cosmetic surgery which at the end of the day it is. This will not change until there is reform of the NHS and its services.

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Muslim women know what the score is about virginity and Islam Suggs so if they chose to fly their kite, don't expect the British tax payer to pick up the bill for a repair job, to cover their infidelity, if its stress its self inflicted

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Spot on if they play with fire they will be burned. It is probably the one thing that the race card cant be used for in case it raises questions. Ok it can break in many ways other than a bit of bed based exercise but that cuts no mustard with the men. I wonder if a Muslim doctor would refuse to do it on religious grounds?

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I understand what you are saying Jay but does a 12/13 year old girl who is raped by her family really have to die?:confused:

I don't subscribe to that belief.:(

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Murdered to cover up their crime in the first place.

Its archaic brutal and inhuman to treat a female like a piece of meat. They probably take better care of their cars than women and girls.

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Now your playing with semantics Beni, In this report there were no such cases mentioned, but centred on women trying to cover up there religious failings. Unfortunately the Male in the Islamic religion is all that matters, women are classed as second class citizens always to do their masters biding and always one step behind, something which should never be tolerated in today's society

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Yet they are allowed to get away with it. That really does irk me big time. Its the 21c not the 13c yet a blind eye is being turned as it would be seen as attacking their religion to try and eradicate this problem.

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Some of these women may not have lost their virginity voluntarily!

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The bottom line is this kikine, its a religious thing not a health problem, the NHS is far from swimming in money and when sick people are being denied drugs because of cost, procedures such as this should not be undertaken on the NHS

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But then you could apply that logic to lots of medical treatments......from the setting of broken bones from an alcohol fuelled fight, to the liver transplant needed by an alcoholic....these are self inflicted injuries but the NHS doesn't charge for them.....or for the treatment given at family planning clinic/Gum clinics(GUM=Genito-Urinary Medicine...what was known as the clap clinic).....you start discriminating on what the NHS will fund and where do you draw the line? After all, even some cancers come down to lifestyle choices....smoking and Lung cancer.

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Drug addicts are treated at great expense to the public purse.......perhaps we should also deny them treatment too....seeing as it is self inflicted.

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I was going to write the same thing. Some breast reductions/enhancements are done on the NHS as a result of in depth psychological analysis as well as physical checks.

I'm guessing that in the past it isn't just muslims who have had this done as well, I reckon a few members of other faiths including christianity probably have as well!

Re: Born again Virgins
 

Are you telling me I may have been 'conned'?

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Oh for heavens sake Margaret, this is nothing to do with a medical issue, its about racial bigotry by men who can do as they please, yet expect their women to be whiter than the driven snow. Don't get me started on Drunks in A & E, as far as I'm concerned they should have to pay for any treatment and ambulance trips (although the ambulance issue might already be so) Its there own stupid fault if the end up in cas. As for Drug addicts think its called cold Turkey

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Ya but not as you'd notice Gordon:rolleyes:

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Out of interest, do you think smokers should also be refused help with quitting as well? I imagine that the cost of helping people to quit smoking is pretty steep too yet it is often overlooked.

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Why smokers, they pay taxes on their baccy?

Drug addicts get better treatment and their stash is tax free!
:mad:

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I smoked 40 cigs a day, the first time a doctor warned me about smoking I gave up, no patches, just willpower, I have not had a cigarette since 26th Jan 1978 my GP said I should cut down and smoke a lower tar brand, but I gave up, full stop. When I was your age blazey it was seen as being cool to smoke, how times have changed

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Tax doesn't always cover the cost of the problems they face though does it. Depends on how long they've been smoking.

And to be honest a lot of people round here buy their cigarettes and tobacco from people who have illegally brought it into the country contrary to border regulations anyway so not everyone pays their fair share of taxes on it.

Re: Born again Virgins
 

valid point Less

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Some people still do think it is cool to smoke. I have the occasional cigarette when I'm in the mood but generally I think it is a bad habit. I'd hate to be smoking like it was a necessary part of my daily routine.

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But it is about medical issues, but medical issues that are affected by racial and cultural problems...the two cannot be divorced, well, not if you want a meaningful debate about the issues involved.

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And you think that that tax on the tobacco goes to pay for treatment of all smoking related diseases Less?

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The tax taken from smokers goes to the same place that the tax goes from motorists who pay their road tax...and it isn't on the roads.

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I agree it shouldn't be done on the NHS but can understand the need for these women to have it done. Before we know it we will be funding female circumcision which is still practised in many countries on young girls.:(

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Not only do smokers pay over £8billion tax per year as against drug addicts £0,they also tend to die younger,thus saving the state a fortune in healthcare,care homes,pensions etc.Also they then free up living accomodation,creating space so first time buyers can get on the ladder.With the problems we have with an ageing population,overcrowding etc. I think smoking should be made compulsory as a civic duty.And cigarettes issued free!

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See that's where I would've shot myself in the foot because my argument was based around paying for people to stop smoking, which I imagine costs a whole lot less than treating the illnesses caused by smoking.

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I think that your reasoning is a bit flawed.
Smokers suffer from more heart related illnesses, cancer and chest problems, and mothers who smoke in pregnancy are likely to have underweight babies and premature delivery...so the cost of healthcare for these conditions would not be met entirely from the tax accrued....they may die earlier, but they may also have been on illness related benefits before their demise.

And yes it is cost effective to try to get smokers to stop, but it does deprive the exchequer from a lucrative pool of revenue.

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The next time you think about having a ciggy blazey, think again and then don't;)

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Think how much money the state would have saved if you hadn't given up smoking,jaysay!And I could have come over and got my hands on those two bottles of Spey.

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Well to me Margaret its not a medical issue, its a needless medical procedure brought about through racial bigotry, and the oppression of women who are treated like second class citizens who have to kowtow to their male counterparts

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I was wondering if that would crop up, there was a program on telly bout that a few years ago, I think its illegal even in the far east. I too can understand the need for these women to have this done, but not on the NHS

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It may be illegal but it is still widely practised in the backwoods, Egypt and Yemen Somalia to name but a few. There are also many in the UK at risk from this horrific practise. These women are mutilated from as young as 3 years old.

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And its usually the older women that do it too:mad:

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Another example of how crazy religion can be.
What if the muslim woman was actually a virgin and she accidentally ruptured her hymen, say perhaps during sports like bicycling, horseback riding, gymnastics etc??

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Restless, when did you last see a muslim woman riding either a bike or a horse?
All of the pursuits you mention are not permitted in the muslim religion.

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No I don't, but I also don't think attacking smokers, non of whom that I know go around deliberately breaking Muslim Women's Hymens is relevent to the argument.

:D

It is stupid to compare the two, just as it would be stupid if someone was to say, money could go towards this needless operation by depriving Cancer patients of life saving treatment, because the two things are completely different.
:)

Re: Born again Virgins
 

haha got me there. I didn't know they wasn't allowed to ride horses

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They may be different but the money still comes from the already overstretched purse;)

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An operation to fool your new husband and his family into thinking that you are as pure as the driven snow? Thats a good start to married life. How deeply moral, robustly ethical and ridiculously holier-than-thou.

The self-imposed limitations of religious minorities are just that; SELF-IMPOSED. I cannot see that they have any reasonable argument why the rest of us should either recognise or respect them, much less fund them!

Re: Born again Virgins
 

I do think the use of the word overstretched in this instance is a bit below the belt.

However as these Gynae Units are up and running and already being paid for I see no reason If thy are going through a slack period why this simple procedure should not be allowed.If only to keep their hands in so to speak.;)

Re: Born again Virgins
 

Although it is almost 8 years since I retired, I am fairly sure that no Gynea unit ever has much of a slack period......as said before this is a very small number of procedures when taking the total female population into consideration.

And Less, you are spot on with your post.(number 54 for anyone who isn't sure which post I mean)

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Well they can keep their hand in so long as we ain't paying for it;)

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Sorry Margaret it was my light hearted way of agreeing with you,:alright:

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It seems OK for muslim women to cycle as long as their leg movements are concealed.

Iran plans to make special bicycles for women - Monsters and Critics

Iran plans to make special bicycles designed for women that will be compatible with Islamic regulations and not expose their body movements while riding, the newspaper Iran reported Thursday.The new bicycle would have a cabin to cover half of a rider's body

Re: Born again Virgins
 

A bit like pealing an orange in your pocket;)

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Yes, Margaret...the salient words here are 'plans to make'....so they don't yet exist. And in all my years i have not seen a muslim woman cycling, horse riding or participating in any kind of gymnastic sport.
I just wondered if Restless had seen any of these things.

Re: Born again Virgins
 

In a conversation last week, someone mentioned that Muslims considered was lower class to do too much exercise. Just repeating this .. don't know ... but was in a conversation about Muslims abroad, etc.

Just wondered also if perhaps some of these Muslim women may have had sex 'thrown upon them' at some time ?

Re: Born again Virgins
 

I have gone to different gyms in the past Kate......there have always been muslim men present, but I have never seen muslim women exercising.

It seems to the outsider,(me) that muslim men may pursue their sex drives as they wish, but muslim women are supposed to remain 'clean'.........a case of double standards.

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I always thought muslim women should be a bit bigger as it was a status of wealth, you know, being able to eat richly and all that. I bit like the Tudor period? I am terrible with history but I'm sure kings used to like to be bigger for the same reason!?

Re: Born again Virgins
 

That is part of what I've been trying to say all along:rolleyes:

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I could just imagine a Muslim Lass during the 60's, sorry Miss I didn't bring my gym kit, my hymen wouldn't let me.

Lets stop being so soft, if she goes out and has intercourse it's up to her to put it right, not the rest of us!

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You are correct - You are useless at history.:hidewall::D:D

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The size of the spread and the amount of courses served was in a way the same as people who collect expensive sports cars. An austintatious display of wealth and power. The Tudor period was bad for it but thayt was surpassed in the Georgian years thanks to exotic foods from abroad.

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I agree with you Less on this one ;)

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If you were a millionaire, would you be 50 stone?

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Ya and we'd have to treat her on the NHS:D

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Mostly right on the Tudor thing ... and throughout the Middle Ages too .... being hefty was a sign of wealth of the individual porker. Now you can work out, be slim and trim, and show off your wealth by driving a Ferrari. Admittedly, Henry Vlll was a big guy ... but he might have come by this through his mother, the Duchess of York. Edward lV, his ancestor, was also a big man. Though it is possible that his size, compared to that of his brother, Richard lll, was a result of his mother's screwing around.

Re: Born again Virgins
 

Surely this is sexist stuff on the part of the NHS? Would it be possible for me to get the operation done? I know this lovely little divorcee in her late 20's/early 30's who would love to break a young virgin in, so what do I need to do in order to satisfy her carnal desires and will the NHS help me?

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All you can do is ask. ;)

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If you accept Islam Tealeaf;)

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and also if you can prove you are psychologically damaged by not being a virgin anymore....so I'm pretty sure that you cannot request it to be done for someone else so that you might benefit......tough that, Tealeaf :D

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He is damaged because he aint and she is because he aint n wants him. I think thats the jist.

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And the translation is Spugs:rolleyes:

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Was keeping it clean. ;)

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You aren't 'young' so you don't meet the critereon.:p
I question the sanity of any woman her age who desires a male virgin.
Many men behave like they don't know what to do, so if you had been young you might well have 'triumphed' anyway.

Re: Born again Virgins
 

Here's a hint, if it ever happens again to you, fart and give him a clue!
:hidewall:

Re: Born again Virgins
 

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:Ya daft sod Less, post like that should have a warning on them especially when I'm on water tablets:D