Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

For anyone who still doesn't know or is interested, there is a meeting of the full council next Tuesday night at 7.00pm. The public are welcome to attend and watch proceedings from the public gallery.

On the menu next week will be the Area Management calendars, taxi licencing sauce and a whopping slice of Market Hall pie. Many of the market traders are coming along to see how the people behind the revised tenancy agreements acquit themselves when questions are raised.

The agenda for next week can be viewed here:

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...nda_140910.pdf

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I'll have a slice of that pie. will be in the gallery

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

The more the merrier it will be an interesting meeting, but please don't throw things as my seat is just under the gallery.:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

pity have another meeting i must attend tuesday night.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Where is the meeting?

Is it in the Town Hall, or Scaitcliffe House?

Do you just walk in?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

It's in the Council Chamber at the Town Hall 7pm.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Its so long since I've been, how many does it hold, seem to remember its not over big?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

The gallery isn't huge but there's room for an uncomfortable number of voters to watch Britcliffe worm his way out of answering any direct questions.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Bitterness has been the downfall of better politicians than you Ken;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I'm a firm believer in having the courage of your convictions, John.

In time I will probably find myself in the same position and whatever statements I make I would hope that I either stand by them and explain why or have the chutzpah to say 'I've got this one wrong'.

I've got more respect for someone who will admit they've buggered up and try to work on a solution than someone who simply adopts the 'let them eat cake' attitude we're currently facing.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

And if they miss you, they'll probably hit me.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Your both safe I'm unable to attend:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

But it does get just a tad boring Ken, I'm sure you've left no one on here in doubt that PB ain't on your Christmas Card list;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Thank you Bernard.

Since posting earlier, Cllr. Dwyer caught me in the shower, and told me the same thing.

:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

What's the etiquette?

Does the gallery sit in silence, or can they snigger, laugh, applaud, jeer, etc?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

You have to be quiet or you may get evicted by HRH The Mayor (!!!!!!!!!!!)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

You will just have to keep quiet and remember - no farting.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Ok.

I'll try.

:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Its often been said your very trying G:p:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I hope that that, and the Parkinson's, is taken into consideration, if it's all a bit too much, and I get giddy and start shaking...and my mint imperials are showered on the great and good below.

:rolleyes:

:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Leave the M. Is. at home G. take a tube of Pringles mate:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I'm saying no more.

If it comes out that I trained the Westminster lesbians abseiling, I'll not be allowed in.

:rolleyes:

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Ah better putting a lid on that one right away;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Before I became a councillor I was spectating at a Council meeting and got told off by Tony Dobson for laughing rather loudly at some of Leader of the Council's rantings.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I don't fancy being showered with mint imperials so if you happen to do it please make sure you are sat near the stairs - so it is the Tories who got showered.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

:rolleyes:

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Yes, I remember that .. you, and another young lady, were being most disruptive with your outbursts of mirth... :D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

It reminds me of a Council meeting back in the mid 90s when one of the lady Councillors brought her baby to the meeting, and started breast feeding it! Bernard will remember it.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

He won't be the only one either;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I remember that meeting and the Councillor.The only way she could get to a lot meetings was to bring the child with her.Put Peter of his stride didn't it.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Improved your eyesight too Bernard:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

What a tit!

Oops.

(Should read...)

What, a tit?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

A right tit at that;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

The meeting of the full council has been cancelled until further notice.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I wonder why.:rolleyes:

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Initially, the Leader of the Council wasn't going to cancel it but something must have changed up at Scaitcliffe House today.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

It has been cancelled all business will be deferred to the next scheduled meeting on 7th December 2010.

Any decisions which need to be taken before then will be dealt with under Council's urgency procedures.

There were a number of questions on the agenda, and the Council Leader has indicated that he would be prepared to set aside the first half hour of Cabinet this Thursday to enable Members to raise any issues.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

We'd all like more transparency in government.

This seems very transparent.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

http://m.gmgrd.co.uk/res/927.$plit/C...A50%3A06%3A673

How festive.

Will the public have to dress up as well, for the Victorian Market meeting?

I have a crutch, so I bagsy Tiny Tim.

Who fancies the goose?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Don't fancy that at all. It's all flabby with very little substance.

I suppose there's always a turkey?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I'll stick with the traditional Dickensian goose, and leave you to your old bird...and all that nasty gobbling.

;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Do we start a new thread or just change the date on this one.:confused::rolleyes::D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I don't know, if you turn up the heat and give it a good roasting you might get something palatable out of it.

Do you know if Accrington Market are big on turkeys this year?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

All the butchers might have gone by then.

Though in the caff upatairs, you might get a turkey bun.

;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Sorry, couldn't find the full length pic, showing the dusty old muff.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

It's OK, there's a motion to improve trading conditions for the stallholders at....

Ah.

See your point.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

It's not the best thing to keep your hands warm anyway.

I've heard that the new trading agreements burn particularly well.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Feel free to change the date.

Peter does.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Should there not be a minimum notice period for cancellation of a full council meeting?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

No doubt there will be a letter going round to all market traders to say late night opening will commence on 7th December ;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Depends on the circumstance Tealeaf

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Why has the meeting been cancelled ?

Who made the decision ?

What is the role of the mayor in such procedures ?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Would imagine the Mayor along with both Party leaders and the Chief Exec, will have been consulted before any decision was made.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Very sorry to hear about about the sad passing of the councillor from Baxenden.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Extract from Part 4 of the Council's Constitution

4.3 Changing Dates of Meetings of Full Council

4.3.1. The Council’s written constitution allows for the time and place of ordinary and extra ordinary meetings of the Council to be determined by the Managing Director.

4.3.2. On occasions when it is necessary to change the date of the Council meeting or to arrange an extra ordinary meeting, it is custom and practice to consult with the Mayor, Leader of the Council and Leader of the Opposition to agree an alternative/new date.

So Mr Welsby will have made the decision in consultation with the Mayor and the Party Leaders.

Hope this helps.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

That's good to hear .

I was wrongly thinking it was the decision of one person .

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Thanks , along with Jaysay's quote it does clarify the matter .

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Have heard its down to the sad passing of the bash councilor?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

That would be an appropriate reason and gesture .

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I have no problem with cancelling the full council meeting in respect to John. But there are two things that concern me. Firstly the Council meeting you would have thought could been arranged for say in two or three weeks time. But that's not what's happening. The leader of the Council has said that there will not be another Full Council until December.

Secondly the Cabinet meeting scheduled for this Thursday still goes ahead. For those that don't know the full Council is when all Councillors are present, and can speak and vote. The Cabinet meeting is made up Conservative Councillors only.

Given that tomorrow's full Council could have been quite stormy because of amongst other things the market hall debate, it does make you wonder.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Does that mean he will try and force through policy decisions he may well have lost in a Full Council?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

then surely an answer is needed as to why its december?:confused:

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

oh seems ya want a mindreader? either that or yer stirring again?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I would have assumed the full council meeting would have gone ahead, if only for all those present - of whatever political persuasion - to hold a few moments silence and pay tribute to their departed colleague.

No, there has to be another reason why Britcliffe has pulled the plug on this meeting and it would not surprise me if it has something to do with the market hall fiasco and responsibility for that falling on him.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

There's any number of weeks when the Council meeting could have been held. But apparently Hi's adamant the next Council meeting will be in December.

The Planning Committee incidentally that John chaired which was due to be held this week,will now be held next week.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

then i might assume he could not have won any vote tomorrow, if i were a cynical get. also december would give time to wheel a new person in?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

You are bring very cynical, there would have been 2 Tory councillors who could not have been at the meeting on 14 September (which would have meant he would have had 15 councillors present) the Labour Party would have been 1 councillor down (meaning there would have been 13 Labour members plus 3 Independents making 16). So the very sad death of John Griffiths meant he would have been down to 14 councillors present at the meeting.

He would have lost all the motions put forward by the opposition group.

Also the Leader of the Labour Group was not consulted about the postponement of the Council Meeting (which he should have been according to the constitution.

Clare Pritchard is going to raise the subject of the Market Hall at the end of Cabinet on Thursday, but I am sure the controlling group will ignore the pionts she raises.

The Cabinet meeting is on Thursday 16 at 11am at Scaitcliffe House and is open to members of the public to spectate but no member of the public will have an opportunity to address the meeting.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Cynical, but seems i was right.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Surely then if the 'cancellation' of the meeting has not been done with due process, then there is a constitutional case for the meeting to go ahead. The agenda has been published and if Britcliffe and some or all of his gang fail to turn up than Labour & the Indy's go ahead on their own.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

If that is the case? will be interesting to note if anyone has the balls to do it.;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Extract from Part 4 of the Council's Constitution

4.3 Changing Dates of Meetings of Full Council

4.3.1. The Council’s written constitution allows for the time and place of ordinary and extra ordinary meetings of the Council to be determined by the Managing Director.
4.3.2. On occasions when it is necessary to change the date of the Council meeting or to arrange an extra ordinary meeting, it is custom and practice to consult with the Mayor, Leader of the Council and Leader of the Opposition to agree an alternative/new date.

Unfortunately the constitution only states that it is custom and practice - and Peter Britcliffe does not abide by 'gentleman's rules', but prefers to ride roughshod over everyone else.
Can't for the life of me think why.
(Answers on the back of a postage stamp please).

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I disagree but I do agree that a minutes silence would be respectful.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Yes, but Peter Britcliffe isn't the Managing Director. He is merely a consultee, and has no more right to single handedly cancel the meeting than the Mayor or Leader of the Opposition.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

He would have had a hell of a say in it though and given the expected nature of tonight's meeting and the likely outcomes it all rings true. Peter Britcliffe really does need replacing as Leader of the Council, how can behaviour like this be either democratic or good for the borough?

Vote any way but blue, every Conservative vote is de facto a vote to retain him as Leader.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

But the Council's Constitution is there to protect against one party or one individual acting against due process.

It seems perfectly reasonable to postpone a meeting out of respect for the death of a colleague, but it is unreasonable to postpone it for more than one or two weeks.

The questions to which the Managing Director should be asked to provide a written reply are:

1. Why, specifically, have you cancelled Tuesday night's meeting of the Council?

1. Was custom and practice followed, according to paragraph 4.3.2 of the Council's Constitution, in that the Mayor, Leader of the Council and Leader of the Opposition were consulted on the cancellation of Tuesday's meeting.

2. If not, what were the special circumstances that prevented custom and practice being followed?

3. Why has the meeting been cancelled, rather than postponed to a date one or two weeks hence?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Bless you, my child.

You're talking as if the current Leader of the Council pays any heed to the document. The Constitution is merely an irritating itch that happens to double as an outsize doorstop. Any uncomfortable points within are rewritten to suit his personal needs.

I understand that we're due a monster council meeting on 7th December which is likely to go on for about 8 hours, by which time everyone will be far too knackered to argue points properly and it will be even more of a panto than usual. Peter probably also hopes he will have won a by-election by then, evening out the numbers a bit.

In theory, your questions are right and proper but they will be wriggled out of. An almost guaranteed comeback will be along the lines of Labour having no respect for the deceased, something which is certainly not true in Cllr Griffiths' case as no one has ever had a seriously bad word to say about him from either side of the fence.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

If you got that as a written reply from the Managing Director, you would be straight on to the External Auditors!

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

And if I may say it, that's a very patronising response from a relatively new Councillor to someone who worked in local government for over 30 years, many of them in senior management!

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

How am I stirring it? Almost everyone else on here has said that he may well have lost any vote in a Full Council, so the cabinet could use emergency powers to force issues through.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

My apologies if you've taken offence, but it's only taken me about three months to discover that if Peter Britcliffe wants something then it happens, regardless of the Constitution. It rankles me that our council is run this way, particularly as there were several items due to be debated on the agenda tonight which would have been to the benefit of the whole borough.

Your questions have already been raised, I'm merely pre-empting the responses that I know we're going to get. In a true democracy they wouldn't need to be asked at all.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

No offence taken, but I am as irritated as you about the way the Council is run, whilst proclaiming itself to be excellent.

I am merely pointing out that there are protections built in to local government to deal with one individual assuming too much power.

Put the Managing Director on the spot. And if you are still not satisfied, contact the External Auditors. Believe me, it will have an effect!

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I agree with you entirely that Peter Britcliffe is merely a consultee, but what Peter wants Peter gets. The problem is that council officers due everything that Peter wants, even when it goes contrary to democracy in the borough.

This is the 2nd time this year that a Full council meeting has been cancelled at short notice. The Leader of the Labour Group was consulted in advance about the previous meeting (which was the AGM) and even put forward a perfectly reasonable solution to the Mayor (Paul Barton) being unable to attend (which meant the Tories would only have been one member down) by Graham Jones pairing with the Mayor and not attending. However this offer was not accepted as the Tories also had 1 member on holiday and would have only had 15 members present to Labours 13 and the Independents 3 (+Malcolm Pritchard).

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

You're right, and it may well come to that.I sincerely hope it doesn't,and that common sense prevails.But you would simply not believe whats going on.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I'm suprised the LT and Observer have not yet picked up on this story. It would appear from the available evidence that this is a case of at best, political manouvering in order to avoid embarrassing critisism and possible defeat and at worse, manipulation and abuse of town hall power.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

I've just had my reply and the procedures have been followed to the letter by the council officials and the Mayor.

An attempt to reschedule the council meeting for next week failed to reach a mutual agreement so the decision was taken by senior officials to hold everything over until December.

Miles Parkinson wanted it next week, so make your own mind up as to who didn't.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

But why december? sure thats a relevant question?:confused:

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

My dear Cashy, it's both relevant and important to the borough, would be an extremely popular move for whoever got it sorted out and reflect very badly on Peter Britcliffe for buggering it up in the first place.

Why admit defeat so publicly when he can just press ahead with his tyrannical plans to completely ruin Hyndburn?

The brass plaque will still be there in 12 months even if the traders aren't, so who cares?

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

There were tons of cars parked on the pavement, outside the Town Hall this afternoon.

I pondered if they were a protest, left by the market traders.

I was a little unsure, so didn't mount their barricades, in an act of solidarity...just yet.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

So it's not just Peter you are up against!

Because next week is not possible, the meeting is held over for 3 months. What about the week after next or the week after that?

The Mayor must be a very busy man!

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Yes that would be appropriate also . Maybe John Griffiths was one who would say that life goes on , so carry on with the work .

What would be inappropriate would be to use the demise of Councillor John Griffiths for party political ends .

I am not saying that this is the case , and I hope it never will be .

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

We were happy for the Council Meeting to be cancelled tonight in respect of John. But we feel one could have been arranged in the next two or three weeks. But as we have seen its not going to held now until December. Yet a Cabinet meeting is still going ahead this Thursday.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

That, unlike the meeting that was scheduled for today, is the one the public can attend...but can't air their views at?

Sounds about right.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

It is not only the public who can not air their views, it is entirely up to the chair of the meeting (our illustrious Leader of the Council) who apart from Cabinet Members can speak. If opposition councillors are allowed to speak only one can comment on any item (and then it is usually only if they are agreeing with the controlling group). When Graham Jones attempted to speak twice on an issue (about the planting of trees on the Coppice - on which he knew the answer to Peter's question) he was told (in no uncertain terms) that he had spoken once (so was not allowed to speak again)so Marlene Haworth would find out the answer. Graham said but I know the answer but Peter just adjourned the meeting for 10 minutes because of Graham's bad behaviour. I honestly think Peter thinks he can control the Cabinet meeting in the same fashion he controlled a class, when he was teacher.

If you want to see how democracy does not work in Hyndburn, please come on Thursday at 11 am to witness the farce, which is a meeting of Hyndburn Borough Council's Cabinet meeting.

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

He has special needs.

Ooops.

Special needs teacher training.

:rolleyes:

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Its just like a mirror image of the Labour Council under Brother George, when ALL decisions were made behind closed doors and full council was just a rubber stamping exercises;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

So, two wrongs make a right, in your book?

We're living in the here, and now.

;)

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

Not strictly speaking.

The Mayor is actually doing a good job of trying to maintain a level of dignity within the council despite one particular councillor exerting undue pressure on him to conform to his way of vot...er, thinking.

Cancelling the full council as a mark of respect wasn't objectionable but the Leader's refusal to reschedule it during September when the fate of the Market Hall hangs in the balance and almost certain defeat loomed in the air smacks of what Miles would call 'jerrymandering'.

The Chief Executive is also doing a good job holding the tatters of Hyndburn Council together whilst being duty bound to execute the controlling group's wishes. Hyndburn would have long ago passed the point of collapse if it weren't for his influence.

We all know the real reason for cancelling the full council and that would be the likely demise of the Area Management calendars. Think of all those lovely lovely votes from people just panting for Britcliffe's face to burst through their door every Christmas.

Just like The Shining....

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

And some times you lot are living in cloud cuckoo land:rolleyes: anyway thought you were at a meeting tonight:D

Re: Full Council Meeting - 14th September
 

We would have been, John. Gladly and with massive bells on, only Brother Peter has used an extremely sad event for political gain.

I'm going to be tactful, but there's no easy way to break it to you what Cllrs Britcliffe and Haworth are doing:

THE MARKET HALL IS GOING TO DIE BECAUSE OF THE HYNDBURN CONSERVATIVES

The olive branch was offered, we really really wanted to work with them and get it right, but no. They are playing with people's lives and killing off a 120 year old Hyndburn resident due to insatiable megalomania.

This goes way beyond silly party differences, the borough has a problem.