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-   -   the tories cant blame labour now (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/the-tories-cant-blame-labour-now-55722.html)

cmonstanley 17-11-2010 22:38

the tories cant blame labour now
 
george osborne says britain will help ireland anyway it can .in what way can britain help ireland:confused: is this admission that labour was right to prop up the british economy and actually saved bilions of pounds of tax payers money. ater all this was caused by a worldwide recession;)

cashman 17-11-2010 22:45

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
not a good title fer a thread mate. of course they can n will blame labour.;) if wills n kate get divorced when they wed its labours fault, yeh should know that!

Mancie 17-11-2010 22:56

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862325)
george osborne says britain will help ireland anyway it can .in what way can britain help ireland:confused: is this admission that labour was right to prop up the british economy and actually saved bilions of pounds of tax payers money. ater all this was caused by a worldwide recession;)

They've already started... they shipped Norman Lamont (the worst Chancellor this country ever had) on Newsnight, and he was yapping on about the last government.
The tories vilified labour for bailing out British banks, yet they seem more that willing to bail out the Irish bankers. :rolleyes:

SPUGGIE J 18-11-2010 05:41

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Notice that since this malarky in Euroland started the urge to join the Euro has gone. If Greece Ireland and Portugal collapse then the great USE might well go under. I want to know why in this time of cutbacks the gov have money to bail out the Irish? This neighbour cowpats cuts no ice with me. Are the gov hoping that riding to the rescue of Euroland members it will curry favour? I think they are blind to the reality of it all.

accyman 18-11-2010 06:16

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
so how many sacks of potatoes are we sending exactly ?

cashman 18-11-2010 08:54

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
this is a typical move from cheating lying *******, whose only intent is to put the working class back were it belongs, in the gutter.:rolleyes: it would be just as incredible if people are surprised.

jaysay 18-11-2010 09:16

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Unfortunately the government have little choice seeing Labour signed up to the European Charter, which states member states will bail struggling economies out, that's the charter which Brown, although promising a referendum, renegade on Labours promise and signed it anyway

cashman 18-11-2010 09:30

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 862376)
Unfortunately the government have little choice seeing Labour signed up to the European Charter, which states member states will bail struggling economies out, that's the charter which Brown, although promising a referendum, renegade on Labours promise and signed it anyway

Why? i'm sure theres nowt says we have to bail the irish banks out.:rolleyes:

jaysay 18-11-2010 09:36

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 862380)
Why? i'm sure theres nowt says we have to bail the irish banks out.:rolleyes:

Think you'll find there is;) and the Greeks and the Spanish and the, well all member countries who get into dire financial difficulties, the problems in Ireland are starting to backfire on other European economies aiding recovery that's why the EU are urging action

jaysay 18-11-2010 09:38

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
At least Brown, when Chancellor, had the sense to keep out of the single currency or it would be costing a hell of a sight more.

cashman 18-11-2010 09:41

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
i cannot accept when our services are being cut, funds can be available fer this purpose.:mad:

jaysay 18-11-2010 10:00

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 862383)
i cannot accept when our services are being cut, funds can be available fer this purpose.:mad:

I can't except paying anything to Europe myself, but life's a bitch;)

Acrylic-bob 18-11-2010 10:29

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
it was explained to me the other day that wee Gideon Osborne is trying to pull a bit of a fast one here, and I must say I hope he succeeds. Aparently, because we are liable to pay out for so many EU rescue funds etc. It makes some sense to dole out the cash to a member state that is close to us and where the cash will do the UK and its exports some good as opposed to doling our hard earned out to the rest of the PIIGS where it will do the UK very little good.

Having said that, I still think that it is wrong for the UK to be bailing out any of the profligate EU member states. After all, no one comes riding to our rescue when we get in a mess. The sooner the Euro crashes, and the EU with it, the better. It will be messy for a while but at least we will be back in charge of our own destiny again.

Wynonie Harris 18-11-2010 10:33

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Matthew Sinclair - Director of the TaxPayers' Alliance - said:

"It is a shame that Ireland is paying such a heavy price for the huge mistake of joining the Euro. British taxpayers don't want to see their money poured into a black hole trying to bail out that failed project, though, particularly with money so tight here at home. They rejected the Euro and shouldn't be forced to pay for other people's mistakes. The Euro is fundamentally broken and Ireland needs to leave, not be railroaded into a bailout by politicians who are more interested in pursuing political integration than sustainable economic policy. The Government need to reject this deal or they will be betraying the interests of British taxpayers."

Ruth Lea - Economic Adviser, Arbuthnot Banking Group and member of the TaxPayers' Alliance Academic Advisory Council - said:

"The eurozone cannot work with such disparate economies. Putting aside the current financial crisis, it is hard to see how Ireland, for example, can recover economically. As one of our major trading partners this is bad news for us. At some point, the EU will have to come to terms with the exit of some of their members – the sooner the better. Of course there are implications for the banks – but better to deal with their problems directly rather than struggle with propping up the unsustainable."

Mancie 18-11-2010 11:05

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 862376)
Unfortunately the government have little choice seeing Labour signed up to the European Charter, which states member states will bail struggling economies out, that's the charter which Brown, although promising a referendum, renegade on Labours promise and signed it anyway

That old chestnut won't wash this time... Britian has signed nothing that makes us liable to bail out the Irish...we are not involved in the Eurozone which has it's own massive funds to deal with the problems with Greece and Ireland. Any contribution made by this government will be thier own decision... even golden boy Osbourn has made that clear.

Acrylic-bob 18-11-2010 12:06

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 862406)
Britian (sic) has signed nothing that makes us liable to bail out the Irish...we are not involved in the Eurozone which has it's own massive funds to deal with the problems with Greece and Ireland.

I think you need to check your facts, comrade.

Mancie 18-11-2010 12:18

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 862424)
I think you need to check your facts, comrade.

You can be sure I do check the facts...the only binding agreement in the EU involves financial aid for natural disasters, such as earthquakes and so on... can you post any proof of Britian legally bound to give finance to any Eurozone member?... I doubt it.:rolleyes:

Acrylic-bob 18-11-2010 12:37

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 862427)
the only binding agreement in the EU involves financial aid for natural disasters, such as earthquakes and so on...

Is that so, and what pray constitutes 'natural disasters and so on...', it strikes me that, if past behaviour is any indication of furture trends, your socialist comrades in Brussels and Frankfurt can and will make it mean anything that suits them. Other rescue funds exist only as notional funds at the moment, until one of the PIIGS decides they cannot do without further subsidy and then the UK will have to fork out it's share whether we approve or not. Your mates, Brown, Darling, Blair and Mandelson have well and truly shafted the lot of us.

Mancie 18-11-2010 12:48

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 862429)
Is that so, and what pray constitutes 'natural disasters and so on...', it strikes me that, if past behaviour is any indication of furture trends, your socialist comrades in Brussels and Frankfurt can and will make it mean anything that suits them. Other rescue funds exist only as notional funds at the moment, until one of the PIIGS decides they cannot do without further subsidy and then the UK will have to fork out it's share whether we approve or not. Your mates, Brown, Darling, Blair and Mandelson have well and truly shafted the lot of us.

There's another point... the actual article which involes emergency financial aid was signed by.. John major in the Maastricht treaty...:D

Acrylic-bob 18-11-2010 12:49

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
First they lied to us and we did nothing.
Then they robbed us and we did nothing.
Now they are going to enslave us and.........

Mancie 18-11-2010 13:57

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
It's likely that if labour were still in power they would hve done the same as the tories... but this government, and thier supporters, should take responsibility for thier own actions.

cashman 18-11-2010 16:35

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 862431)
First they lied to us and we did nothing.
Then they robbed us and we did nothing.
Now they are going to enslave us and.........

And you are telling the truth A-B?:rolleyes:

jaysay 18-11-2010 17:52

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 862469)
And you are telling the truth A-B?:rolleyes:

More of the truth than Blair, Brown or Darling ever did;)

Mancie 18-11-2010 23:44

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 862469)
And you are telling the truth A-B?:rolleyes:

Bob is right when he says the EU will work out some way to involve non-Eurozone countries in financial funding to the crisis in Ireland...this government have no binding agreement to bail out Ireland but will get round this by making a "loan" .. the starter of this thread was asking wether the tories can yet again blame labour? as expected we get the same old response from the tory blokes carping on about stuff like "The Social Charter"..which had nothing to do with proping up any Euro members... the tories got a few votes on the pretence that they could blame labour for everything and hope the public were stupid enough to go along with what they say without question...pretty much the same as the tories posts on here ;)

JCB 19-11-2010 10:11

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
If the UK makes any contribution to a loan to assist Ireland , I think you will find that it comes through the IMF rather than the European Central Bank .

Let's not forget that in the past the UK has been only too glad to have money loaned to it by the IMF .

jaysay 19-11-2010 10:30

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 862613)
If the UK makes any contribution to a loan to assist Ireland , I think you will find that it comes through the IMF rather than the European Central Bank .

Let's not forget that in the past the UK has been only too glad to have money loaned to it by the IMF .

Ya As Denis Healey, they wouldn't lend him any in the late seventies to help clear up Labour's last mess

cashman 19-11-2010 10:37

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
well now thatchers old poodle lord young has spoke out, "we never had it so good", cameron has virtually proved he thinks the same by not sacking him immediately, it shows what the mega-rich tories think, whilst the ordinary tory voter, follows naively along thinking good ole conservatives, but never mind lads Labours to blame.:rolleyes:

jaysay 19-11-2010 10:39

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 862625)
well now thatchers old poodle lord young has spoke out, "we never had it so good", cameron has virtually proved he thinks the same by not sacking him immediately, it shows what the mega-rich tories think, whilst the ordinary tory voter, follows naively along thinking good ole conservatives, but never mind lads Labours to blame.:rolleyes:

Talking like that cashy you'll qualify for honorary life membership of the cynics society:D

jaysay 19-11-2010 10:43

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 862625)
well now thatchers old poodle lord young has spoke out, "we never had it so good", cameron has virtually proved he thinks the same by not sacking him immediately, it shows what the mega-rich tories think, whilst the ordinary tory voter, follows naively along thinking good ole conservatives, but never mind lads Labours to blame.:rolleyes:

Mind you I think your right, he should have sacked him then reappointed him like blair did with Mandy 3 times, Blunket twice:rolleyes: and still put up with gaff a week Two Jags saying well John's John isn't he;)

cmonstanley 19-11-2010 11:14

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
like his bow tie lol BBC News - Lord Young apology over 'never had it so good' remarks

cashman 19-11-2010 12:23

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 862629)
Mind you I think your right, he should have sacked him then reappointed him like blair did with Mandy 3 times, Blunket twice:rolleyes: and still put up with gaff a week Two Jags saying well John's John isn't he;)

Don't disagree, but then two wrongs don't make a right in my world.:D

DaveinGermany 19-11-2010 14:47

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
The guy was out of line, he was pulled up & has now quit. There I think you see a fundamental difference between him & other Politicians/representatives who've also screwed up but fought tooth & nail to remain in place.

'Never had it so good' Tory quits after rebuke - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Barrie Yates 19-11-2010 15:45

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 862625)
well now thatchers old poodle lord young has spoke out, "we never had it so good", cameron has virtually proved he thinks the same by not sacking him immediately, it shows what the mega-rich tories think, whilst the ordinary tory voter, follows naively along thinking good ole conservatives, but never mind lads Labours to blame.:rolleyes:

I believe he fell on his sword - unfortunately the Blair/Brown cronies did not have that decency;):)

cashman 19-11-2010 16:34

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 862685)
I believe he fell on his sword - unfortunately the Blair/Brown cronies did not have that decency;):)

Don't take much imagination to reckon twas through pressure from D.C. cos he didn't have the balls to sack him?;)

accyman 19-11-2010 17:54

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
cameron probably agrees with him but cant afford even more bad opinions of him so distanced himself and ordered him to quit.

quite surprised he didnt send clegg to mop up the mess , he must have been busy cleaning number 10's loo

jaysay 19-11-2010 18:01

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862636)

If you really do have to bore the pants off everybody at least don't bring something up that was raised only 3 posts prior to yours:D

Less 19-11-2010 18:10

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 862731)
If you really do have to bore the pants off everybody at least don't bring something up that was raised only 3 posts prior to yours:D

And yet you seem to think your daily quote of '13 years of Labour misrule',
is fresh off the press?

Good Grief!

:eek:

andrewb 19-11-2010 18:19

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862325)
george osborne says britain will help ireland anyway it can .in what way can britain help ireland:confused: is this admission that labour was right to prop up the british economy and actually saved bilions of pounds of tax payers money. ater all this was caused by a worldwide recession;)

Well.. the Irish economy is in rather different circumstances to ours.

If you remember at the time, the Conservatives and Labour agreed that the banks needed saving. Labour have however cost us billions of pounds by overspending before the recession even hit. Now we're spending hundreds of millions a week paying interest to bankers on all the debt the last Government left the new Government.

jaysay 19-11-2010 18:21

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 862738)
And yet you seem to think your daily quote of '13 years of Labour misrule',
is fresh off the press?

Good Grief!

:eek:

I only keep remind Clr Moss Less;)

jaysay 19-11-2010 18:24

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 862744)
Well.. the Irish economy is in rather different circumstances to ours.

If you remember at the time, the Conservatives and Labour agreed that the banks needed saving. Labour have however cost us billions of pounds by overspending before the recession even hit. Now we're spending hundreds of millions a week paying interest to bankers on all the debt the last Government left the new Government.

£42 Billion a year Andrew to be precise, thats more than the defence budget

JCB 20-11-2010 10:13

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 862622)
Ya As Denis Healey, they wouldn't lend him any in the late seventies to help clear up Labour's last mess

Now , how was I 100% certain you would mention Denis Healey when I posted that quote ? ;)

I've checked up on it , and from October to December 1976 Denis Healy was negotiating with the IMF . He succeeded in getting a loan of $3.9 billion .
Sorry I can't put the link to the article , but I haven't got the knack of doing it yet .

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 10:55

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 862744)
Well.. the Irish economy is in rather different circumstances to ours.

If you remember at the time, the Conservatives and Labour agreed that the banks needed saving. Labour have however cost us billions of pounds by overspending before the recession even hit. Now we're spending hundreds of millions a week paying interest to bankers on all the debt the last Government left the new Government.

dont make me laugh overspending, trying to put right what thatcher and major destroyed and poverty they created. tories squandered money with selling off the family jewells labour spent money investing in britain and the person who has cost britain was john major who signed the maastrich agreement im still laughing you actually believe the murdoch press without investigating the facts.

Barrie Yates 20-11-2010 13:01

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862866)
dont make me laugh overspending, trying to put right what thatcher and major destroyed and poverty they created. tories squandered money with selling off the family jewells labour spent money investing in britain and the person who has cost britain was john major who signed the maastrich agreement im still laughing you actually believe the murdoch press without investigating the facts.

This thread started out as - "the tories cant blame labour now".
So, it appears to me that even though the Tories are not allowed to blame Labour, it is perfectly alright for Labour (you) to blame the Tories, even after 13 years. Maggie may have stopped school milk and broke the Unions and Major may have signed Maastrich, however, they did not give away our gold reserves or take us into two unjustified wars - Labour did that.

jaysay 20-11-2010 14:13

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 862855)
Now , how was I 100% certain you would mention Denis Healey when I posted that quote ? ;)

I've checked up on it , and from October to December 1976 Denis Healy was negotiating with the IMF . He succeeded in getting a loan of $3.9 billion .
Sorry I can't put the link to the article , but I haven't got the knack of doing it yet .

He also went to the IMF again in 1978 and was turned down flat, fact and told to put his own house in order;)

jaysay 20-11-2010 14:16

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 862893)
This thread started out as - "the tories cant blame labour now".
So, it appears to me that even though the Tories are not allowed to blame Labour, it is perfectly alright for Labour (you) to blame the Tories, even after 13 years. Maggie may have stopped school milk and broke the Unions and Major may have signed Maastrich, however, they did not give away our gold reserves or take us into two unjustified wars - Labour did that.

And lets not forget that when Brown signed the Lisbon treaty without the promised referendum, it cancelled the Maastricht treaty

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 14:48

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
read the lib dem quote lol BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Brown belatedly signs EU treaty

jaysay 20-11-2010 14:57

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862932)

And your point:confused::confused::confused:

Barrie Yates 20-11-2010 15:54

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862932)


The Liberal Democrats said Mr Brown's absence raised "serious questions". Lib Dem leadership contender and ex-MEP Chris Huhne criticised "inept and peevish behaviour that leaves Gordon Brown's reputation for honest dealing with our EU partners hanging by a thread".

The LibDems only said what everyone in UK already knew - the Sword of Damocles was about to fall.

Mancie 20-11-2010 16:48

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 862904)
And lets not forget that when Brown signed the Lisbon treaty without the promised referendum, it cancelled the Maastricht treaty

The Lisbon treaty is the same as Maastricht.. the only difference is that the treaty was confirmed as the EU constitution in Lisbon.. but Labour were wrong to dodge a referendum.

andrewb 20-11-2010 17:26

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 862866)
dont make me laugh overspending, trying to put right what thatcher and major destroyed and poverty they created. tories squandered money with selling off the family jewells labour spent money investing in britain and the person who has cost britain was john major who signed the maastrich agreement im still laughing you actually believe the murdoch press without investigating the facts.


Don't make you laugh? Well.. Sorry if you find overspending and waste funny. Frankly I don't think it's at all funny that the Government are forced to reduce spending to pay for all the wasteful debt that the last Government racked up. Each to his own.

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 17:49

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
2 Attachment(s)
i would be surprised if the tories spend less they will only fiddle the figures,i mean the net spending like paying and bailing out of outside providers they are going to use ;)

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 18:42

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
heres some more of the truth ;)

DaveinGermany 20-11-2010 18:56

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
This alleged "Truth" ? Where exactly ? Or is it secret, in fact so secret we can't even see it ? :confused:

jaysay 20-11-2010 19:11

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 863044)
This alleged "Truth" ? Where exactly ? Or is it secret, in fact so secret we can't even see it ? :confused:

You have to make exceptions for our friend from the other side of Hadrian's Wall, he' a Rangers supporter:rolleyes:

Eric 20-11-2010 19:17

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
What's all this I'm reading in the British media about what is happening to the NHS? How the British system is set to become more like that ill-functioning and costly bs they have south of our border? And what are all the students po'd at? Is this part of the legacy of Labour mis-government? And Clegg, where the hell is his head at? This could be the end of the Lib-Dems and the beginning of a permanent and bitter polarization of British politics.

I don't think that either of these two messes can be blamed on Labour. Unless one considers it a "mess" to provide health care to all citizens regardless of their ability to pay for it up front, and to give the opportunity for post secondary education to all who qualify, not just to the gin and Jaguar crowd. The EU, I don't know about, or really care; it seems to me, at a distance, such an obviously stupid idea, that I'm surprised it ever got as far as it has.

The tories seem to be blaming Labour for the harshness of their policies; but the dismantling of the NHS and the elitizisation (I made that word up) of post-secondary education would have happened anyway under a tory govt. It's ideology, not economics.

DaveinGermany 20-11-2010 19:24

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
We have "Friends" on the other side ? But we're the wicked English ! Responsible for all ills that befall the Jockeens, even ingrowing toenails & piles ! :rolleyes: Or so they'd have the World believe, only problem I've got with that is .... well they've been left to their own devices since 1997...... now just a mo ! Wasn't there something else happened about the same time ?

Bingo ! The Labour party came to power, that's it ! Make of that what you will, me I'm just putting across some facts, no agenda here. :) ;)

Barrie Yates 20-11-2010 19:32

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 863054)
You have to make exceptions for our friend from the other side of Hadrian's Wall, he' a Rangers supporter:rolleyes:

If that is true then why doesn't he ****** off with the fat Scots Git Salmond, who wants to be cut adrift from UK until we decide to close Lossiemouth & Kinloss - I have been to both places and also the Western Isles - the Scots are welcome to everywhere north of Hadrian's Wall

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 20:02

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
never voted snp in my life alex salmond is a numpty and bows down to his own agenda which is his ego dont be so judgemental on all scots.as ive said before most scots want to stay in the union as it has been benificial to both countries and to close down kinloss and lossiemouth is a strategic disaster.

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 20:03

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 863059)
What's all this I'm reading in the British media about what is happening to the NHS? How the British system is set to become more like that ill-functioning and costly bs they have south of our border? And what are all the students po'd at? Is this part of the legacy of Labour mis-government? And Clegg, where the hell is his head at? This could be the end of the Lib-Dems and the beginning of a permanent and bitter polarization of British politics.

I don't think that either of these two messes can be blamed on Labour. Unless one considers it a "mess" to provide health care to all citizens regardless of their ability to pay for it up front, and to give the opportunity for post secondary education to all who qualify, not just to the gin and Jaguar crowd. The EU, I don't know about, or really care; it seems to me, at a distance, such an obviously stupid idea, that I'm surprised it ever got as far as it has.

The tories seem to be blaming Labour for the harshness of their policies; but the dismantling of the NHS and the elitizisation (I made that word up) of post-secondary education would have happened anyway under a tory govt. It's ideology, not economics.

agreed;)

DaveinGermany 20-11-2010 20:20

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 863088)
and to close down kinloss and lossiemouth is a strategic disaster.

Strategic ? Hardly ! The Cold war is over & that was the main purpose of these locations to intercept Russian/Eastern Bloc aircraft (ask Barrie). Economic on the other hand I'd give you that as a valid comment. But even under your chosen party the cuts still would've happened, as the SDR was inevitable, due to funds having to be found to cover the expensive costs of the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, in one case the aftermath & in another the continuing cost.

Need I remind you at whose behest the "British Military" went off to fight another foreign war ? Well it couldn't have come from anywhere else (the money) as Labour wouldn't want to upset their voters by removing payments & benefits now would they ? They needed to hold back funds to buy support.

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 20:47

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
doesnt matter if weve made friends with russia all it takes is a change of leadership and were back to the beginning .we still need the nimrods for strategical reasons half the nuclear submarine fleet and hunterston nuclear power station is in the region all it takes is an air strike or terrorist attack and were gone.complacency thats all it takes.

DaveinGermany 20-11-2010 21:02

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Nimrod is to be replaced by the Boeing RC-135 & UAV's like "Predator" & "Watchkeeper" will be used as they are more cost effective & deployable.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/watchkeeper/

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/predator/

Mancie 20-11-2010 21:23

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Due to the tory cuts here is a photo of the new missile defence for Britian..

http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/bp-homepage-tab-04.jpg

yerself 20-11-2010 22:00

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Due to Labour's nuclear disarmament policy here is a photo of the new missile defence for Britain.:D

http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/bp-homepage-tab-04.jpg

garinda 20-11-2010 22:03

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
I think that is a German launch pad.

:D

cmonstanley 20-11-2010 22:15

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 863112)
Nimrod is to be replaced by the Boeing RC-135 & UAV's like "Predator" & "Watchkeeper" will be used as they are more cost effective & deployable.

Watchkeeper Tactical UAV System - Army Technology

Predator RQ-1 / MQ-1 / MQ-9 Reaper - Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) - Air Force Technology

mmm already cost £3 billion another political decision;) RAF Kinloss: Scrapped replacement for Nimrod 'largely completed' - Scotsman.com News

jaysay 21-11-2010 08:07

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 863127)
mmm already cost £3 billion another political decision;) RAF Kinloss: Scrapped replacement for Nimrod 'largely completed' - Scotsman.com News

Another instance of Labour throwing money down the toilet when there are cheaper and more effective options

cmonstanley 21-11-2010 08:46

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
more like a political decision, another thought just came to me if tories and business men think this BBC News - Theo Paphitis defends Lord Young's recession comments it must mean that they are admitting labour were doing something right ;)

jaysay 21-11-2010 08:50

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 863173)
more like a political decision, another thought just came to me if tories and business men think this BBC News - Theo Paphitis defends Lord Young's recession comments it must mean that they are admitting labour were doing something right ;)

Believe me CS if Labour do out right its a total accident:D

jaysay 21-11-2010 08:53

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 863173)
more like a political decision, another thought just came to me if tories and business men think this BBC News - Theo Paphitis defends Lord Young's recession comments it must mean that they are admitting labour were doing something right ;)

The fact that interest rates are still only 0.5% is down to the Bank of England nout to do with Brown and Co. but maybe just maybe if Brown hadn't scrapped the Banking regs in the first place things wouldn't have been half as bad as they are

Barrie Yates 21-11-2010 10:39

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 863157)
Another instance of Labour throwing money down the toilet when there are cheaper and more effective options

CS, did you criticise the Govt of the day when the TSR2 was scrapped. This was arguably the best aircraft of the time and for many years to come. They really did scrap it - even breaking up the finished aircraft (although I understand one example still exists), they even broke up the jigs and molds so that it would be too expensive to re-start the project - how many jobs were lost at BAe because of that decision?:rolleyes:

DaveinGermany 21-11-2010 10:43

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 863127)
mmm already cost £3 billion another political decision;) RAF Kinloss: Scrapped replacement for Nimrod 'largely completed' - Scotsman.com News

Hands up, I'd not seen this, that truly is a disgusting waste of tax payers money. They should have at least finished the aircraft & got some service out of them to justify their cost to the public purse. In this case it really is a bad call by the Coalition Government.

cmonstanley 21-11-2010 10:58

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 863198)
CS, did you criticise the Govt of the day when the TSR2 was scrapped. This was arguably the best aircraft of the time and for many years to come. They really did scrap it - even breaking up the finished aircraft (although I understand one example still exists), they even broke up the jigs and molds so that it would be too expensive to re-start the project - how many jobs were lost at BAe because of that decision?:rolleyes:

quite interesting about the politics and division in them days as well BAC TSR-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

jaysay 21-11-2010 12:10

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 863198)
CS, did you criticise the Govt of the day when the TSR2 was scrapped. This was arguably the best aircraft of the time and for many years to come. They really did scrap it - even breaking up the finished aircraft (although I understand one example still exists), they even broke up the jigs and molds so that it would be too expensive to re-start the project - how many jobs were lost at BAe because of that decision?:rolleyes:

Twas a bit before my time Barrie don't really know much about it, I've just had a look on Wici, now my interests have been raised I'll have another look when I get a bit of spare time, but not on footy day:D

Barrie Yates 21-11-2010 12:27

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 863199)
Hands up, I'd not seen this, that truly is a disgusting waste of tax payers money. They should have at least finished the aircraft & got some service out of them to justify their cost to the public purse. In this case it really is a bad call by the Coalition Government.

To bring them into, and maintain them, in service would have cost far more money than the original cost.
Specialist support at all levels, training costs of all those support specialists, servicing equipment, spares - the support costs would be astronomical. Some courses (full time), could last for over a year - imagine the cost of that.

DaveinGermany 21-11-2010 13:33

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 863243)
To bring them into, and maintain them, in service would have cost far more money than the original cost.
Specialist support at all levels, training costs of all those support specialists, servicing equipment, spares - the support costs would be astronomical. Some courses (full time), could last for over a year - imagine the cost of that.

That being the case why were they sanctioned in the first place then ? Doesn't make sense if the running costs are to be so prohibitive. :confused:

Back to you C'mon, I believe as the aircraft was authorised under Labour.

Barrie Yates 21-11-2010 14:39

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 863261)
That being the case why were they sanctioned in the first place then ? Doesn't make sense if the running costs are to be so prohibitive. :confused:

Back to you C'mon, I believe as the aircraft was authorised under Labour.

Probably part political. The trouble with buying weapons from across the pond, the prats at MoD Purchasing Executive & others decide that some things must be changed - hence Cobras that couldn't communicate with UK ground forces and numerous other systems, but jobs for some areas of UK:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

JCB 21-11-2010 19:12

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 863173)
more like a political decision, another thought just came to me if tories and business men think this BBC News - Theo Paphitis defends Lord Young's recession comments it must mean that they are admitting labour were doing something right ;)

Lord Young says that we have never had it so good , just as Harold Macmillan said the same in 1957 , and the latter was able to say it thanks to the boom in the post-war global economy .

The word "global" seems to have disappeared from the vocabulary of many of our politicians .
All the good is due to them , and all the bad is due to their opponents .
The fact that there is a world outside of themselves is conveniently forgotten .

jaysay 22-11-2010 09:23

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 863353)
Lord Young says that we have never had it so good , just as Harold Macmillan said the same in 1957 , and the latter was able to say it thanks to the boom in the post-war global economy .

The word "global" seems to have disappeared from the vocabulary of many of our politicians .
All the good is due to them , and all the bad is due to their opponents .
The fact that there is a world outside of themselves is conveniently forgotten .

With reasoning like that JCB you should have been a politician:D

JCB 22-11-2010 19:48

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 863422)
With reasoning like that JCB you should have been a politician:D

An interesting idea , but I am confused about the Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties . And today Ed Milliband has said that it's the end of New Labour . So is it to be Labour or Old Labour or what ?

Things are bad enough without me making them worse . :)

cmonstanley 22-11-2010 20:31

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
its new new labour;):D wonder where the tories found money to loan to ireland and when do they expect it back.why didnt they loan money to forgemasters another political decision BBC News - Sheffield Forgemasters' £80m nuclear parts loan axed the more this year goes on the more thee tories stink;) in fact clueless comes to mind

Mancie 23-11-2010 00:58

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 863353)
Lord Young says that we have never had it so good , just as Harold Macmillan said the same in 1957 , and the latter was able to say it thanks to the boom in the post-war global economy .

It's all very well saying "we have never had it so good" on radio and then having a lunch time meeting in a top rate restaurant working out how to tax the public with higher VAT in order to lower the deficiet, when ordinary British people find it hard to get work.. to my mind this is what the tories are all about.

jaysay 23-11-2010 09:18

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 863602)
It's all very well saying "we have never had it so good" on radio and then having a lunch time meeting in a top rate restaurant working out how to tax the public with higher VAT in order to lower the deficiet, when ordinary British people find it hard to get work.. to my mind this is what the tories are all about.

1-58am the Special Brew is taking hold;)

Mancie 23-11-2010 09:30

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 863645)
1-58am the Special Brew is taking hold;)

Yeah.. just around the time you used to put the kettle on for your boss pete.

jaysay 23-11-2010 09:37

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 863651)
Yeah.. just around the time you used to put the kettle on for your boss pete.

Oh come on Mancie I expect a better reply than that, what bloody Tory is working at that time in a morning:rolleyes:

Mancie 23-11-2010 10:15

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 863658)
Oh come on Mancie I expect a better reply than that, what bloody Tory is working at that time in a morning:rolleyes:

OK.. don't put the kettle on.. give us some more of your brilliant co-dem eonomic policy that you watched on telly! ;)

JCB 23-11-2010 10:21

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 863602)
It's all very well saying "we have never had it so good" on radio and then having a lunch time meeting in a top rate restaurant working out how to tax the public with higher VAT in order to lower the deficiet, when ordinary British people find it hard to get work.. to my mind this is what the tories are all about.

As the French political philosopher Alex de Tocqueville said : " We get the government we deserve ."

Ultimately the electorate is to blame if you want to blame anyone .

jaysay 23-11-2010 10:26

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 863668)
OK.. don't put the kettle on.. give us some more of your brilliant co-dem eonomic policy that you watched on telly! ;)

Better still don't be so bloody lazy get up from the computer and switch the telly on:D

jaysay 23-11-2010 10:27

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 863669)
As the French political philosopher Alex de Tocqueville said : " We get the government we deserve ."

Ultimately the electorate is to blame if you want to blame anyone .

I did that from 1997 to 2010 JCB:D

JCB 29-11-2010 10:27

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 863558)
its new new labour;):D

New new labour .:confused::confused::confused:

I'm not a fan of John Humphrys , but he was interviewing Ed Milliband last week on The Today programme about Ed's relaunch of Labour .

He took Ed to pieces . Ed's responses to Humphrey's prodding about what his policies amounted to were so vacuous .
Ed couldn't come up with anything concrete , just vague waffling .

If Ed can't do better than that , Labour are going to have to prepare for another 18 years in opposition .

jaysay 29-11-2010 10:35

Re: the tories cant blame labour now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 865402)
New new labour .:confused::confused::confused:

I'm not a fan of John Humphrys , but he was interviewing Ed Milliband last week on The Today programme about Ed's relaunch of Labour .

He took Ed to pieces . Ed's responses to Humphrey's prodding about what his policies amounted to were so vacuous .
Ed couldn't come up with anything concrete , just vague waffling .

If Ed can't do better than that , Labour are going to have to prepare for another 18 years in opposition .

What Ed the Red choice of the Unions JCB;)


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