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cmonstanley 13-01-2011 11:13
tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
my :eek: the tories are closing 3 prisons and say prisons are out dated and cost too much money :confused::confused::confused::confused: BBC News - Prisons shutdown unveiled by government

Margaret Pilkington 13-01-2011 11:22
re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
They cost too much money because they are kitted out like holiday camps!

DaveinGermany 13-01-2011 13:14
re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
So the closing down of these 3 Prisons which, apparently are "unfit for purpose" ? Really ? why ? Because of human rights & suchlike ? Brought in & enforced by who exactly ? Means 850 places have to be found in other Prisons throughout UK.

Shouldn't be to difficult really, the present Prison population is about 85,000 according to various sources, UK Prisons can hold approximately 87,000 so loads of room. Mind you if we didn't have so many foreign prisoners languishing & lapping it up in our Prisons (Oh about 11,500 if we could get shut then the Prison population of around 73,500 would be easily accommodated ! Not Rocket Science).

However due to certain people & their policies guess what ? We're stuck with them ! Now consider this, the average cost for a years bed & board for these creatures (irrespective of home grown or foreign) is about GBP 41,000 ! GBP 41,000 ! Multiply that by 11500 ! I did but can't get my head round such astronomical numbers ! Such a vast amount of wasted resources that could be better spent elsewhere & the Country certainly needs it there's no denying. So lets just back track a bit to find out the real culprits are here, who let them in ? Who jailed them ? Who signed up to an act that prevented us repatriating them ?

Neil 13-01-2011 15:22
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
I am confused, ir happens a lot these days, how would you deal with people from other countries who break the law here?

Eric 13-01-2011 15:51
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 875020)
I am confused, ir happens a lot these days, how would you deal with people from other countries who break the law here?
Do what the yanks do: fry 'em.;)

Tealeaf 13-01-2011 16:30
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Prior to transportation of the criminal classes to Australia in the latter part of the 18th century, the policy was to ship the convicts to North America, primarily the 13 colonies but to a lesser extent, Canada. Maybe we should now revise this method; I'm quite sure that given the extent of the Canadian landmass, ten thousand foreign criminals deposited on Her Majestie's Canuk shores would soon be lost in it's great wilderness.

jaysay 13-01-2011 17:49
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 874989)
my :eek: the tories are closing 3 prisons and say prisons are out dated and cost too much money :confused::confused::confused::confused: BBC News - Prisons shutdown unveiled by government
Remember money is a little scarce at the moment, according to the Labour chief secretary to the treasury Liam Byrne, he left a note on his desk say sorry there's no money we've spent it all:mad:

JCB 13-01-2011 17:59
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
There are too many in prison when another sentence would be more appropriate .

David Chayter the ex-MP was jailed for fraud .
He had paid all the money back .
He showed remorse .
He was not a threat to the public .

Surely those in authority could have come up with something better than a term of imprisonment .

jaysay 13-01-2011 18:19
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCB (Post 875059)
There are too many in prison when another sentence would be more appropriate .

David Chayter the ex-MP was jailed for fraud .
He had paid all the money back .
He showed remorse .
He was not a threat to the public .

Surely those in authority could have come up with something better than a term of imprisonment .
Shot him as an example;)

JCB 13-01-2011 18:25
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 875076)
Shot him as an example;)
:eek: cruel . :(

jaysay 13-01-2011 18:32
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCB (Post 875081)
:eek: cruel . :(
Too right;);)

Eric 13-01-2011 19:20
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tealeaf (Post 875035)
Prior to transportation of the criminal classes to Australia in the latter part of the 18th century, the policy was to ship the convicts to North America, primarily the 13 colonies but to a lesser extent, Canada. Maybe we should now revise this method; I'm quite sure that given the extent of the Canadian landmass, ten thousand foreign criminals deposited on Her Majestie's Canuk shores would soon be lost in it's great wilderness.
First you will have to instruct them so that they will be able to speak at least one of our official languages .... And you had better hurry ... once the present monarch dies, I have a strong feeling that we will no longer be a Constitutional Monarchy. Dumping them in the Great Barren Lands would be a death sentence; and that would appeal to many on here.

Oh, and it is "Canuck".

heth 13-01-2011 19:23
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric (Post 875029)
Do what the yanks do: fry 'em.;)
I agree, if the crime is that bad then thats what should happen...:eek:

Tealeaf 13-01-2011 20:08
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric (Post 875095)
First you will have to instruct them so that they will be able to speak at least one of our official languages .... And you had better hurry ... once the present monarch dies, I have a strong feeling that we will no longer be a Constitutional Monarchy. ".
Yeah, I think you're right Eric. But I just hope you're fully prepared. I assume you already know the words of 'The Star Spangled Banner' (after all, the tune is a British drinking song and the words are a tribute to British technology). But how will you cope with their lousy health care system? And are you really ready to swear allegiance to a constitution that is no more than a piece of paper?

Still I suppose President Sarah Palin is somewhat better looking than your current Queen. I wonder about your new flag though...with 10 provinces and three territories, will it be 60 stars on the flag (6 X 10) or 63 (7 X 9). I suppose the latter is has more appeal..which do you prefer?

Eric 13-01-2011 20:59
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tealeaf (Post 875103)
Yeah, I think you're right Eric. But I just hope you're fully prepared. I assume you already know the words of 'The Star Spangled Banner' (after all, the tune is a British drinking song and the words are a tribute to British technology). But how will you cope with their lousy health care system? And are you really ready to swear allegiance to a constitution that is no more than a piece of paper?

Still I suppose President Sarah Palin is somewhat better looking than yourcurrent Queen. I wonder about your new flag though...with 10 provinces and three territories, will it be 60 stars on the flag (6 X 10) or 63 (7 X 9). I suppose the latter is has more appeal..which do you prefer?

The way the US is heading, we might consider them as an eleventh Province ... as long as they get their economic house in order ... We are wondering how long it will be before they have to adopt the loonie as their official currency.

DaveinGermany 13-01-2011 21:42
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCB (Post 875059)
There are too many in prison when another sentence would be more appropriate .
Surely those in authority could have come up with something better than a term of imprisonment .
Such as ? The man was a thief, not an opportune one it wasn't a one off, he planned what he did & he continued doing it ! He worked out how best to screw the system but got caught ! All their whinging & bleating about struggling on their "pittance" of pay makes me want to puke !

Personally I'd have given him the maximum & all the rest of the thieves & liars should be treated just as harshly when caught ! Just think on JCB, next time you're denied a basic service that you've paid for with your taxes because "There's no money" due to cutbacks ! It's because of people like Chaytor & similar gorgers who have emptied the public pot making sure they're ok while Joe Public goes empty handed ! :angry:

That said, do you still think he should have been shown leniency ?

Alan Varrechia 13-01-2011 22:09
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 875116)
Such as ? The man was a thief, not an opportune one it wasn't a one off, he planned what he did & he continued doing it ! He worked out how best to screw the system but got caught ! All their whinging & bleating about struggling on their "pittance" of pay makes me want to puke !

Personally I'd have given him the maximum & all the rest of the thieves & liars should be treated just as harshly when caught ! Just think on JCB, next time you're denied a basic service that you've paid for with your taxes because "There's no money" due to cutbacks ! It's because of people like Chaytor & similar gorgers who have emptied the public pot making sure they're ok while Joe Public goes empty handed ! :angry:

That said, do you still think he should have been shown leniency ?
What kind of sentence would a normal person have got for fiddling that much from the social. Quite a bit more i would think.:mad:

jaysay 14-01-2011 09:14
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Varrechia (Post 875119)
What kind of sentence would a normal person have got for fiddling that much from the social. Quite a bit more i would think.:mad:
I don't know about that Alan try watching Saints and Scroungers on BBC1 at 11am today, the other day three sisters made false claims for DLA one claimed around £39000 got 8 months another £29000 got 7 months and the third £19000 and got 6 months.

DaveinGermany 14-01-2011 11:23
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Unfortunately the system is skewed time & time again it happens, people turning the system over get caught, they say they're sorry, BULL ! They're sorry they got caught ! Then a spineless judiciary allows them to tamp out their sob story & shows leniency ! Jeez !

As to getting the money back (if at all) again more spinelessness ! Yes Mrs Bloggs of course you can pay back the 50,000 you scammed from the system while others who truly need the aid have suffered pure hardship (while you got your big telly, went to Jamaica, drove your 4X4 & generally lived it up while others struggled by in utter despair) at 1 quid a month ad infinitum & tell you what we'll continue giving you benefits, wouldn't want to see you out of pocket now would we ?

That is the result of your welfare state total abuse from all quarters at all levels. That's the reason the Country needs a damned good rattling & thieves as that's what they are, should be exposed & hammered with the maximum penalties possible & don't give me the hardship to their families Bullcrap as they certainly didn't give a second thought for other families when they were coining it in !

JCB 14-01-2011 18:35
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 875116)

That said, do you still think he should have been shown leniency ?
I didn't say he should be shown leniency .

I was making the point that imprisonment is an inappropriate punishment for many who end up there .
It is costing the people of the country millions of pounds each year to keep many in prison for whom an alternative sentence would be better . e.g. tagging or hard work doing worthwhile community service .

jaysay 14-01-2011 18:42
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCB (Post 875300)
I didn't say he should be shown leniency .

I was making the point that imprisonment is an inappropriate punishment for many who end up there .
It is costing the people of the country millions of pounds each year to keep many in prison for whom an alternative sentence would be better . e.g. tagging or hard work doing worthwhile community service .
Ya but they don't turn up for community service JCB or for that matter pay fines:(

JCB 14-01-2011 19:00
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 875304)
Ya but they don't turn up for community service JCB or for that matter pay fines:(
The authorities should ensure that they do turn up .
I agree that the punitive system needs to be toughened up , but that does not necessarily mean sending more to prison .

Community service needs to be worthwhile hard work that will benefit the community . It needs to be enforced , and any dodging it should be dealt with accordingly .

I believe that if there is a will there's a way .

DaveinGermany 14-01-2011 21:36
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCB (Post 875300)
I didn't say he should be shown leniency .
That being the case then he was guilty of a crime, he was convicted & duly punished as simple as ! Should you or I ever find ourselves in front of a court for something illegal we would be dealt with by the full might of the legal system relevant to charges brought !

Chaytor's behaviour was that of a thief, he stole from the Public in that he fraudulently acquired monies he wasn't entitled to - Fraud act 2006, I'd assume section 4 (Maximum 5 years) he hasn't even been charged with half that & he'll probably only end up doing a year somewhere soft. Disgusting absolutely disgusting !

Fraud Act: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

jaysay 15-01-2011 09:03
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCB (Post 875314)
The authorities should ensure that they do turn up .
I agree that the punitive system needs to be toughened up , but that does not necessarily mean sending more to prison .

Community service needs to be worthwhile hard work that will benefit the community . It needs to be enforced , and any dodging it should be dealt with accordingly .

I believe that if there is a will there's a way .
Well if they won't turn up of CS and they don't pay fines, to enforce anything they have to be their, or are we going to employ more people riding round picking these people up and taking them to do their tasks for the community, might as well send um to the nick then we know exactly where they are, even if they bet gatted every night and shoot up to alleviate the boredom;)

DaveinGermany 24-01-2011 12:44
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 875020)
I am confused, ir happens a lot these days, how would you deal with people from other countries who break the law here?
They get punished the same as someone born & bred in UK, but with the added proviso that they can be deported if their custodial sentence is longer than 1 year or severe enough to warrant such, theoretically ! But as is so blatantly obvious this doesn't happen very often as they play guess what ? Their Human rights card !!!! :mad: Thereby forcing the British public to once again foot the bill for these unwanted, disgusting & offensive parasites !

I believe it's covered under various acts, Criminal Justice & Immigration act 1991, UK Borders act 2007, Immigration act 1971, take your pick but there is so much legislation & counter legislation that it's a proper cess pit of nauseousness, which only that other bunch of Leeches (Lawyers) can understand & make heads or tails of.

So as usual the UK's wonderful Government past & present have simply tucked their craven tails between their legs & run for the dank & festering recesses of their den of iniquity laughingly referred to as Parliament, to cower meuling, like the spineless, toothless curs they are, whipped into line by Europe & the ever more omnipresent ECHR !

You may notice a little animosity & aggression in my posting on this subject, it's intended ! This is one of those subjects that really infuriates me & I believe a good number of other Folk too.

Ken Moss 24-01-2011 17:36
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
My dad worked as a training instructor for over 35 years at HMPs Garth and Wymott and frequently told us of how many inmates got themselves put away for a better standard of living. The 'human rights' malarkey has a lot to answer for but how do you get out of it without getting out of Europe?

I'm sure that there's good to be found in a European partnership but we don't pull enough of our own strings in my opinion and we don't help ourselves with the Maplins routine that is provided at Her Majesty's pleasure.

jaysay 24-01-2011 17:59
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877773)
My dad worked as a training instructor for over 35 years at HMPs Garth and Wymott and frequently told us of how many inmates got themselves put away for a better standard of living. The 'human rights' malarkey has a lot to answer for but how do you get out of it without getting out of Europe?

I'm sure that there's good to be found in a European partnership but we don't pull enough of our own strings in my opinion and we don't help ourselves with the Maplins routine that is provided at Her Majesty's pleasure.
That human rights malarkey was good old Tony's finest achievement Ken,(or so he said) well it did ensure is wife had a good living for life before passing the poison challis to the "fall guy" good old Flash Gordon

Ken Moss 24-01-2011 18:01
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 877782)
That human rights malarkey was good old Tony's finest achievement Ken,(or so he said) well it did ensure is wife had a good living for life before passing the poison challis to the "fall guy" good old Flash Gordon
And the 1980s?

Dad spoke of hot chocolate and doughnuts at suppertime long before Tony's smile graced Downing Street.

jaysay 24-01-2011 18:15
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877783)
And the 1980s?

Dad spoke of hot chocolate and doughnuts at suppertime long before Tony's smile graced Downing Street.
I take exception to you referring to Tony's smile GRACING Downing Street:D

Wynonie Harris 25-01-2011 07:39
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877773)
My dad worked as a training instructor for over 35 years at HMPs Garth and Wymott and frequently told us of how many inmates got themselves put away for a better standard of living. The 'human rights' malarkey has a lot to answer for but how do you get out of it without getting out of Europe?

I'm sure that there's good to be found in a European partnership but we don't pull enough of our own strings in my opinion and we don't help ourselves with the Maplins routine that is provided at Her Majesty's pleasure.
Quite agree, Ken, but I'm sure your right on, progressive socialist comrades in Hyndburn Labour Party must cringe with embarrassment when they read stuff like this. What say you, Claytonender? ;)

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 07:43
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 877886)
Quite agree, Ken, but I'm sure your right on, progressive socialist comrades in Hyndburn Labour Party must cringe with embarrassment when they read stuff like this. What say you, Claytonender? ;)
Can you imagine any councillor having an opinion of their own that allows for a degree of autonomous thought within a cohesive collective? It'd be the end of civilisation as we know it.

Derriere primed......

Boot primed......

:D

Wynonie Harris 25-01-2011 07:59
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877888)
Can you imagine any councillor having an opinion of their own that allows for a degree of autonomous thought within a cohesive collective? It'd be the end of civilisation as we know it.

Derriere primed......

Boot primed......

:D
This autonomous thought malarky is all very well, but you're not supposed to start acting like Alf Garnett. :D Never mind, I won't snitch on you to Comrade Harriet and the re-education of class enemies committee. ;)

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 08:10
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 877889)
This autonomous thought malarky is all very well, but you're not supposed to start acting like Alf Garnett. :D Never mind, I won't snitch on you to Comrade Harriet and the re-education of class enemies committee. ;)
I'm fairly sure they won't lock me in a room, Clockwork Orange-style, with a loop of Tony Blair's best speeches.

At least I'm fairly sure.....

I'm pleased to say that Miles Parkinson is far from dictatorial and openly welcomes differing views in order to get the best from the group, it makes him very approachable when submitting new ideas.

Until I become commandant of Rishton stalag I don't think he has any need of worry on this one.

Wynonie Harris 25-01-2011 08:26
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877890)
I'm pleased to say that Miles Parkinson is far from dictatorial and openly welcomes differing views in order to get the best from the group, it makes him very approachable when submitting new ideas.
Well, you just try that "prisons are like holiday camps" line and see where it gets you. Or perhaps your "they're trying to stop us celebrating St George's Day" approach. You'll have your comrades choking on their fairtrade coffee!! :D

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 08:40
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 877891)
Well, you just try that "prisons are like holiday camps" line and see where it gets you. Or perhaps your "they're trying to stop us celebrating St George's Day" approach. You'll have your comrades choking on their fairtrade coffee!! :D
There are ways of addressing things but denying that they go on doesn't help anyone. However, having had a first-hand warning from a brewery rep several years ago for my 'xenophobic' St George's Day quiz night I'm afraid I'm still smarting over England's national day!

Regarding prisons, I do know that the cost of incarcerating each prisoner is more than I earn in two years, possibly three, and that doesn't really make economic sense to me. The standard of living is also fairly high for something which many would hope to be both punishment and deterrent and the first problem I would address is the seemingly easy availability of drugs on the inside.

Fortunately, I am not well-acquainted with the inside of Her Majesty's prisons but decrying the level of punishment on the basis of breaching human rights rather negates the whole idea of being punished!

jaysay 25-01-2011 08:46
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877892)
There are ways of addressing things but denying that they go on doesn't help anyone. However, having had a first-hand warning from a brewery rep several years ago for my 'xenophobic' St George's Day quiz night I'm afraid I'm still smarting over England's national day!

Regarding prisons, I do know that the cost of incarcerating each prisoner is more than I earn in two years, possibly three, and that doesn't really make economic sense to me. The standard of living is also fairly high for something which many would hope to be both punishment and deterrent and the first problem I would address is the seemingly easy availability of drugs on the inside.

Fortunately, I am not well-acquainted with the inside of Her Majesty's prisons but decrying the level of punishment on the basis of breaching human rights rather negates the whole idea of being punished!
Thats what I like about you Ken, when state your own views on things like this you couldn't get a rizla between thee and me:rolleyes::D

Wynonie Harris 25-01-2011 09:23
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 877894)
Thats what I like about you Ken, when state your own views on things like this you couldn't get a rizla between thee and me:rolleyes::D
“So, comrade Moss, it has come to light that you share the views of that right-wing, Daily Mail-reading running dog, capitalist, imperialist lackey, Jaysay. Your ideological unsoundness runs deeper than we thought. Radical steps may be required to purge you of your bourgeois tendencies. I’m sure comrade Harman can think of something suitable.” ;)

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 09:29
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
'For you, Kenny, ze campaign is over!'

Good grief, it's beginning to sound like the council is run like some sort of dictatorship where one man exercises his will over those in his control.

Such things do not happen in Hyndburn....:jump3:

Wynonie Harris 25-01-2011 10:05
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877920)
'For you, Kenny, ze campaign is over!'

Good grief, it's beginning to sound like the council is run like some sort of dictatorship where one man exercises his will over those in his control.

Such things do not happen in Hyndburn....:jump3:
Nicely switched, Ken. We'll make a politician of you yet! :D

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 10:08
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 877932)
Nicely switched, Ken. We'll make a politician of you yet! :D
It's these local issues, you see....

jaysay 25-01-2011 10:28
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877934)
It's these local issues, you see....
For want of a better word Bollards:D

jaysay 25-01-2011 10:30
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 877913)
“So, comrade Moss, it has come to light that you share the views of that right-wing, Daily Mail-reading running dog, capitalist, imperialist lackey, Jaysay. Your ideological unsoundness runs deeper than we thought. Radical steps may be required to purge you of your bourgeois tendencies. I’m sure comrade Harman can think of something suitable.” ;)
I think your wonderful to Wyn:D:p:p

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 10:30
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 877940)
For want of a better word Bollards:D
Too slow matey, got the one on Cliff Street sorted just before New Year!

jaysay 25-01-2011 10:32
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877943)
Too slow matey, got the one on Cliff Street sorted just before New Year!
Ya posted that without a smiley:D

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 10:37
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 877944)
Ya posted that without a smiley:D
I wasn't smiling moving the sodding thing off the pavement and out of the way, nearly ruptured myself!

Thankfully, years of research in local alehouses have given me the guts to do the job properly....

DaveinGermany 25-01-2011 10:38
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877920)
'Good grief, it's beginning to sound like the council is run like some sort of dictatorship where one man exercises his will over those in his control.
Surely not ? I was always lead to believe that in that respected institute that is British Boliktics it was "One man, one vote !" So that being that are you inferring that that one man is PB & that that 1 vote is his & his alone ?

Who'd of thunk it ! :rolleyes:

Ken Moss 25-01-2011 10:42
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 877948)
Surely not ? I was always lead to believe that in that respected institute that is British Boliktics it was "One man, one vote !" So that being that are you inferring that that one man is PB & that that 1 vote is his & his alone ?

Who'd of thunk it ! :rolleyes:
The inference is entirely yours, my friend.

How do you people come to these conclusions?

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...ons/icon12.gif

jaysay 25-01-2011 18:01
Re: tough on crime tough on the causes of crime
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 877952)
The inference is entirely yours, my friend.

How do you people come to these conclusions?

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...ons/icon12.gif
Ridiculous, as if that would ever happen in this day and age:rolleyes:


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