Originally Posted by garinda (Post 916518)

Perhaps the looking like 'the hen coop, after the fox has been in', refers to the wrappings off the sandwiches councillors bring in.

Now that the butties are no longer delivered daily, on silver platters from Hurn's.

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 916519)

I miss those butties, they were truly delicious. It seems I'll just have to go and buy them from Hurn's now like every other prole.

There isn't even a comely serf to peel my grapes anymore.

Miles is such a monster.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 916523)

You need to get your name down for one of those specially trained assistance dogs.

As well as helping the blind to cross the road, and alert the deaf when the phone rings, they also train poodles.

As well as doing everything you ever ask of them, they can also be trained to peel a grape for you.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...hiteSmiley.gif

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 916524)

I'll peel my own

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 916515)

I've posted before, the last time H.B.C. was Labour run I didn't live here. Although I visited often, and maintained close ties and an interest in the place I grew up.

The Labour party of today is nothing like the party of old. Just as the Conservative party isn't.

From my experience of living in places run by variously controlled councils, I've not found any particular party better than any other.

Liverpool - Labour, atrocious.
Lambeth - Labour, appalling.
Wandsworth - Conservative, marvellous.
Glasgow - Labour, fantastic.

Just because something was bad in the past doesn't necessarily mean history will repeat itself.

Especially because there's been such a massive political shift in various parties from what they once were.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 916526)

instead of using their energy in in-fighting, name calling, etcetera. It takes away the dignity and respect that the electorate may have held for that person, when you hear of the childish behaviour and name calling.

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 916527)

I think this is probably the biggest single reason why we have such low turnouts for elections in this country

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 916488)

On a personal level, in Rishton we have now confirmed the demolition of a row of unsightly derelicts which have dragged an area down for 10 years and the council will be recouping that money from the owners. The council is not there to hand out money simply when people come a-knocking and all that has been abolished as well.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 916488)

Other 'good news' will be reported to the public when something concrete has been put in place, not some hypothetical votewinner which may never happen or figure which has been plucked out of the air in order to sound good.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 916533)

......OK, I could be an independent, but in my view people(the electorate) see independents as indecisive, weak as water and because they are not aligned to any of the major political parties, they haven't much clout.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 916533)

And that, Cash, is why political bias should be removed from local elections.

It is expected that the people who wish to be councillors have a desire to serve the community.......do they really need a political banner to enable then to do so?......My own feeling is that they don't, and that political ties just get in the way of these people doing a good job.
If I wanted to be a councillor, I could not align myself to any political party........OK, I could be an independent, but in my view people(the electorate) see independents as indecisive, weak as water and because they are not aligned to any of the major political parties, they haven't much clout.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 916514)

'The grapevine', what a load of old twaddle. Do yourself a favour, call a spade a spade. If you mean that there has been a cull of staff then just ask your little grape to do a bit of research further along the vine. There's been a cull of wasteful spending, that's all.

Just ask your little grape how it was expected that £2m could be promised to the residents of Woodnook and the same £2m could also be intended for Township Regeneration proposals?

You're an intelligent man, wake up and take off the Tory blinkers. I'm a Labour Councillor and I'm not blind to Labour's faults in the past, it doesn't mean we all have to rigidly to them in the future.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 916589)

John, there is no disputing that PB has worked hard for his Ward,(but isn't that what he is paid to do...no medals for doing your job, even if you do it well) but it has to be said that he has got a it above himself(and that is an understatement).

No man(or woman for that matter) is bigger or better than the council they work for....and PB has demonstrated in so many ways that he thinks he is the big cheese.
Big cheeses go mouldy...and some of them find their way onto the spike of a mousetrap.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 916580)

Depoliticising local councils has always been a thing I have passionately believed in for many years, but I'm afraid that will never happen, especially when the former leader of the labour group often branded every Tory Councillor as a wast of space.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 916890)

I do not think that and have never said such a thing. What i have said on many occasions is that PB is one of the hardest working ward councillors. That Douglas Heyes is too. Add Brian Roberts, Judith Addison and believe it or not Marlene Haworth. These people are committed to their areas.

However the Council has a huge budget and the main reason for being a councillor is not to ensure a new park bench every now and again, but to run a £30m business and remember this is about jobs and prosperity, not charity with the constant flow of £100 cheques.

In that respect I stand by the view that the last lot, for whatever reason were incapable and that there are incapable Labour councils too.

Whatever the faults of political alliances, anything less would be a disaster. Last year the three independents pretty much had three opposite views on every subject "because independence is their byword". Without teamwork and cooperation and with the right of veto at any time it would be chaos and carnage. Just look at Lancaster. A new leader every two months, a new cabinet every 4 months, can't agree on policies, have no way at all of making progress with everyone reserving the right to vote against.

Worse; The Council is a huge business and needs to be divided up into about 14 leaders taking responsibility over different services. If each disagrees, how can the others make progress. If you start without a basis of compromise and direction how can you know you aren't wasting your time or that someone else is doing what you don't want in another position? You end up with the grotesque position of just wasting time and money on a grand scale and the whole Council collapses. You also end up inward looking as each independent fights for votes for a position whereas a leader nominates and the group is outward looking.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 916996)

What I said has always been my view and said frequently in public. I must have had a few slurps and was misinterpreted!

Originally Posted by entwisi (Post 916905)

To me the above is key, we ( Hyndburn) are a massive company and yet we let it be run by people who by the very way they are in position have no experience of running such an enterprise.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 917029)

It is easy to see how party politics can be counter productive in the use and distribution of precious resources......punch and judy politics are no servant to the people of Hyndburn
I would very much like to see local government de-politicised....get everyone working together for the common good of the community......not back biting and in-fighting because they see themselves as different...purely on the banner they travel under.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 917029)

Colin, I agree with the fact that people are our wealth.......but money is generated (in various ways) to look after the people of the borough.......and we need the best people to manage that resource.

It is easy to see how party politics can be counter productive in the use and distribution of precious resources......punch and judy politics are no servant to the people of Hyndburn
I would very much like to see local government de-politicised....get everyone working together for the common good of the community......not back biting and in-fighting because they see themselves as different...purely on the banner they travel under.

In local elections I never consider which party someone is aligned to........I only look at their track record for doing the job in hand....but I know that many people are blinded to who is best for the job by party politics.......foolish, but that is only my opinion.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 917060)

You are dead right, hon. And a "de-politicised" council does work. At least, it works here. Our city council (it's a small city: 117, 000) oversees policing, fire department, ambulance service, sewer, water, natural gas, sports facilities (hockey rinks, football fields etc.), garbage pick up, road maintenance, city transit, and a lot more. And there is no party politics at City Hall.:theband: And for the life of me, I can't see why there should be.:confused:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 917128)

John...it wouldn't matter if elected members had previously fought a ward under a political banner.
The main point is, they would have been elected...chosen by the people for their skills and talents in managing some aspect of life for the borough...rather than being chosen just because they are Labour/Conservative/Independent.
There would be no political banner getting in the way of them doing a good job(or precluding them from being elected if they had the right skill/talents)...and no opportunity to sling mud...backbite purely on the grounds of their political banner.

They could all pull in the same direction for once instead of seeing other councillors as the enemy.

It has to be a better way.........and change of this sort has to be looked at, considered and tried before it is condemned out of hand.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 917158)

It depends on why they are squabbling...whether the motives are due to political influences(which I suspect in many intances would be the case).If labour says it day...the conservatives would say it is night.....without even looking outside.
These are unwanted and unwarranted arguments. The prime concern of every elected councillor should be to make the borough better in any way that this can be achieved...if this is not how they want to work, then they should not be on the council in the first place.

If we have a council that is non political then maybe some of the barriers to progress would be removed...there would, of course, still be some differences of opinion....but most adults meet these every day in their working lives and manage to find equitable compromises.

The other thing is...if we take political sponsorship out of local government then maybe people who have no political allegiance(like myself) would be enabled to be more active in the business of the borough.
Not that I want to dabble in local government.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 917163)

Inevitably if you had 35 independents they would have to form two or three teams to manage affairs and each other and you would end up back at a political structure we have now.

Independents is a utopian ideal that if it did exist would end up in grotesque unworkable chaos. Which indepndent would lead on which service and what if they had extreme views? What happend when another lead councillor has the opposite view and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing? And if they do what they are doing but demand no compromise 'because they are independent and sticking to the will of their constituents'?

It would be a charter for political gridlock. Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 917163)

Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 917163)

Inevitably if you had 35 independents they would have to form two or three teams to manage affairs and each other and you would end up back at a political structure we have now.

Independents is a utopian ideal that if it did exist would end up in grotesque unworkable chaos. Which indepndent would lead on which service and what if they had extreme views? What happend when another lead councillor has the opposite view and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing? And if they do what they are doing but demand no compromise 'because they are independent and sticking to the will of their constituents'?

It would be a charter for political gridlock. Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 917163)

Independents is a utopian ideal that if it did exist would end up in grotesque unworkable chaos.

It would be a charter for political gridlock. Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 917257)

City of Kingston, Ontario, Canada - City Councillors

Here's our bunch of councillors. Notice that there are only twelve of them, plus the Mayor, who is elected at large. And all in all they do not a bad job; and they are an accessible group. And I don't believe that they see themselves as "Independents", or anything other than City Councillors. I haven't read all the profiles, but I'm pretty sure there is no mention of party affilliation.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 917275)

Mayors are different. All the power is put in one person. He chooses whoever he likes. It is a model that many here are considering and I would say this, it encourages voters to think locally when voting.

Of course elect a bad one and it's the reverse. It also damages the ward based councillor whose say is next to nothing and results in a democratic deficit.

The current system means your councillor has more power to change things as part of a team. Under the Mayors system descent can result in the sack.

Originally Posted by Tealeaf (Post 917296)

Eric,

What you doing fooling around on here this afternoon? Surely you should have your eyes glued to the TV screen, cheering on the live pictures of Their Royal Highnesses, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, as they make their stately progress through their soon-to-be north american dominion?

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 917309)

Well thats just convinced me Eric. yeh will sup wi anybody.:D;)

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 917459)

It's just the Canadian way Cashy, so laid back they're virtually comatose, I mean, if they were friendly enough to accept me & thousands of other British troops being embarrassing in their Towns (all in the past I hasten to add :D), what a lovely bunch of people. :)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 917596)

And you have to remember Dave that Eric's been there about 40 years too:D:D

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 917634)

So he's been Canadized then. :)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 917635)

You can take the lad out of Clayton :D:D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 917635)

You can take the lad out of Clayton but you can't take Clayton out of the lad:D:D

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 917735)

I often think of what my life would have been like if I had stayed put. Right up until the time I got on the plane (yes, we had them back then;;) it was a BEA turbo prop, a "Viscount" maybe, for a connecting flight to London) I was in two minds. When I saw the big red maple leaf on the tail plane of the DC 10, everything started to seem, well, foreign. But last time I flew Air Canada out of Heathrow, and saw the same emblem, I knew I was on my way home.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 917763)

That's heart warming.

Even though Canada's your home, your still one of us too.

Home is where your heart is, but also where your roots are.

You're like one of those fancy plants they produce.

A red rose, grafted on to a maple tree.

:D