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egg&chips 28-06-2011 22:20
Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Well, for the first time since a minor industrial fracas at Accrington Garages in 1985 I find myself on the point of striking on Thursday. I would rather not, if only because of the loss of a day's pay, but the chances are that I will lose around £90k over 25 years (if I live that long) should the pension reforms go ahead. I'll apologise now to anyone inconvenienced by the strike, but Michael Gove's attitude strengthened my resolve to withdraw my labour. If no-one says "enough" now, it will just get worse for all those in the public sector.

cmonstanley 28-06-2011 22:36
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
support you 100% this is a benchmark to see what else they can get away with, stealing pensions etc you dont see the mps stealing from their pensions.its not only about pension its about the destruction of public services.firemen ,nurses,police ,teachers and civil servant jobs just today tj hughes,jane norman and habitat in liquidation with rumours about curries thornton shutting 150 stores thats whast only reported on the bbc .more civil servants heading for the dole queue.we are heading for a double dip reccession due to this dip sticks policies this why we should support the strike what they are doing is theft on a grand scale robert maxwell did this and was getting prosecuted so why not cameron.

cashman 28-06-2011 22:37
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
yeh got my respect mate.

garinda 28-06-2011 22:41
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
If 'you'd rather not' strike, why are you?

Do you feel pressurised?

cashman 28-06-2011 22:46
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
In my experience rindy, most folk would rather not strike, thats a fact, sometimes yer just left wi no other option. the days of pressurised strikes are long gone.imho. the bitch stopped that by changing the rules on ballots.

garinda 28-06-2011 22:53
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915225)
In my experience rindy, most folk would rather not strike, thats a fact, sometimes yer just left wi no other option. the days of pressurised strikes are long gone.imho. the bitch stopped that by changing the rules on ballots.
Thanks.

Just curious. Having never having striked.

Mind you, there isn't a union for fashion 'hos.

Well not one I was ever invited to join.

:D

shillelagh 28-06-2011 23:03
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
good luck ....

agree with you cashy .. people would rather not strike .. its loss of pay etc ... and especially when its teachers who are held responsible for teaching the kids of today .. people say .. why are you striking .. its another day off school for you we have to sort out childcare

ossy kid 29-06-2011 01:07
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Good luck. We've just had our posties legislated back to work after a "LOCK OUT". So the highly paid management rich cats lock out the workers and then go to government to have them legislated back to work. Something wrong there. Bedmates comes to mind.

Studio25 29-06-2011 01:10
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Full support here, too - coming from a school governor AND someone who will be badly inconvenienced by Thursday's strike.

People seem to forget - the purpose of a strike is to inconvenience someone. In the case of businesses, it's the shareholders or whoever reaps the benefit of the profit. In the case of public sector workers, it's the public.

If nobody is inconvenienced by a strike, the grievance isn't noticed, so there's no point doing it.

Eric 29-06-2011 05:10
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Good luck egg&chips; may the Force be with you;):D

gynn 29-06-2011 05:30
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
The teachers and other public servants have every right to be angry, because they are being made to pay for the failings of national politicians of both parties who took short term gains at the expense of long term planning.

The reason given for the changes to the scheme are that people are living longer, and there isn't the money in the funds to pay them. But that information was available back in the 1980's, so why did Conservative Chancellors Lawson and Lamont allow for reductions in the employer contributions to pension funds to make them not fully funded? Answer: short termism.

The information was also known to Labour Chancellor Gordon Brown in the 1990s so why did he remove the tax breaks enjoyed by ALL pension funds, which again led them to suffer shortfalls? Answer: short termism.

The effect of these policies over many decades is what we are seeing today, with Hyndburn Council's pension fund, for example, in deficit by 50 million pounds, and for every one pound that it pays to its employees, the Council has to put 28 pence into the Pension Fund.

It is a situation that can't be sustained, but it is one that could and should have been foreseen decades ago, and with proper planning would not have arisen.

So the teachers and public servants have every right to be angry.

egg&chips 29-06-2011 06:51
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Thanks folks. The only question now is, do I go on the rally or do I stay at home and catch up with paperwork?

cashman 29-06-2011 07:04
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
think the rally mate, but thats just my twopennorth.

cashman 29-06-2011 07:24
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gynn (Post 915253)
The teachers and other public servants have every right to be angry, because they are being made to pay for the failings of national politicians of both parties who took short term gains at the expense of long term planning.

The reason given for the changes to the scheme are that people are living longer, and there isn't the money in the funds to pay them. But that information was available back in the 1980's, so why did Conservative Chancellors Lawson and Lamont allow for reductions in the employer contributions to pension funds to make them not fully funded? Answer: short termism.

The information was also known to Labour Chancellor Gordon Brown in the 1990s so why did he remove the tax breaks enjoyed by ALL pension funds, which again led them to suffer shortfalls? Answer: short termism.

The effect of these policies over many decades is what we are seeing today, with Hyndburn Council's pension fund, for example, in deficit by 50 million pounds, and for every one pound that it pays to its employees, the Council has to put 28 pence into the Pension Fund.

It is a situation that can't be sustained, but it is one that could and should have been foreseen decades ago, and with proper planning would not have arisen.

So the teachers and public servants have every right to be angry.
Whilst that is perfectly true, in my view the shortfalls came about,cos pension funds were taking "Pension Holidays" fer 1 yr or more,as far back as the 80s, when as you say this information was known! the reason given,was a massive surplus in the funds! the ordinary worker did NOT get a break,but carried on paying his dues, so in my view those that milked the pension system should be made to make up the shortfall, They Caused It!:mad: why on earth should people who have always paid their dues suffer?

Benipete 29-06-2011 07:34
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
I'd leave it for a couple of weeks then go on strike for 6/8 weeks.:hidewall::hidewall::hehetable

Neil 29-06-2011 08:07
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
What is the impact on the pension funds of early retirement being used as a way of reducing staffing levels?

setayas 29-06-2011 08:09
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Definitely go on the rally, the more the louder, I mean merrier.

jaysay 29-06-2011 08:37
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Its just a pity there were no strikes when Brown destroyed the pension schemes of millions of private sector workers who are thousands of pounds out of pocket when they retire

Boeing Guy 29-06-2011 09:37
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Well said Jay, I am finding it very hard to support those Public Sector Workers, after all I don't have a pension, thanks to successive governments, screwing the country, especially the one eyed idiot we had recently. It is the humble tax payer paying the pensions here, when the majority of us don't have a pension provided.

cashman 29-06-2011 09:37
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 915277)
Its just a pity there were no strikes when Brown destroyed the pension schemes of millions of private sector workers who are thousands of pounds out of pocket when they retire
Its n even bigger pity yeh can't accept, what was started during the "Thatcher" years wi pensions,:rolleyes: n the fact that their all as bad.

jaysay 29-06-2011 09:48
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915299)
Its n even bigger pity yeh can't accept, what was started during the "Thatcher" years wi pensions,:rolleyes: n the fact that their all as bad.
The thing is that Private sector workers are being robbed because of Brown rifling private pensions, and those that are affected are also being asked to contribute, through their taxes for, to public sector pension schemes, think its time to move into the real world really. Just a note one of the Union Leaders calling this strike has £26,000 a year paid into his gilt edge pension fund on top of his £135,000 a year salary, nice work if ya can get it

JCB 29-06-2011 09:55
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
I don't think the NAS/UWT are on strike .

There are too many teachers' unions . They used to spend more time squabbling amongst themselves , especially the NUT and the NAS/UWT .

There should be one professional teachers' body representing all teachers . They might be listened to more readily if such was the case .

cashman 29-06-2011 10:01
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 915304)
The thing is that Private sector workers are being robbed because of Brown rifling private pensions, and those that are affected are also being asked to contribute, through their taxes for, to public sector pension schemes, think its time to move into the real world really. Just a note one of the Union Leaders calling this strike has £26,000 a year paid into his gilt edge pension fund on top of his £135,000 a year salary, nice work if ya can get it
They were all robbed in the 80s by "Pension Holidays" yet this was completely ignored under the guise of "Massive Surplus" in the funds, yet anyone wi any oil in there lamp was under no illusion what would happen in the future.:rolleyes:

Benipete 29-06-2011 17:50
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by egg&chips (Post 915257)
Thanks folks. The only question now is, do I go on the rally or do I stay at home and catch up with paperwork?
I would go on the rally,After all It would break up the monotony of having a secure job for 45 years.:rolleyes:

Just think all them years to plan for the future must be a complete bore.:rolleyes:

On top of that you've got to wash the car and take the kids to the park,you must be in need of a holiday.:hehetable

cmonstanley 29-06-2011 18:07
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
the thing is its not just about pensions its about job cuts which are going to effect the most vulnerable,the young in society as i tell you we havent seen anything yet.outsourcing contracts to companies who will be making profits for the shareholder which will cost more in the long run .

DaveinGermany 29-06-2011 18:27
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915417)
the thing is its not just about pensions
its about job cuts
i tell you we havent seen anything yet.
outsourcing contracts to companies who will be making profits for the shareholder
You can't let it lie can you ? Any platform to get your petulant opinions across ! The issue is about striking teachers (although the title mentions other public servant) TJ's, Jane Norman (whoever they are ?), Habitat, Curries & Thorntons, remind me again just when they began teaching or failing that when they became part of the Public sector ?

Make your mind up will you lad ! The despised private sector with it's evil managers employing thousands (but exploiting the masses) or the benificient public sector ousting thousands of poor workers, cutting services but maintaining the extravagant levels of pay to managers & ne'er do wells !

Careful you don't bruise your plums as you straddle that fence. :rolleyes:

jaysay 29-06-2011 18:41
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 915426)
You can't let it lie can you ? Any platform to get your petulant opinions across ! The issue is about striking teachers (although the title mentions other public servant) TJ's, Jane Norman (whoever they are ?), Habitat, Curries & Thorntons, remind me again just when they began teaching or failing that when they became part of the Public sector ?

Make your mind up will you lad ! The despised private sector with it's evil managers employing thousands (but exploiting the masses) or the benificient public sector ousting thousands of poor workers, cutting services but maintaining the extravagant levels of pay to managers & ne'er do wells !

Careful you don't bruise your plums as you straddle that fence. :rolleyes:
Dave your wasting your time he's as thick as a p***stone mate

Benipete 29-06-2011 19:04
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 915432)
Dave your wasting your time he's as thick as a p***stone mate
You can grow a tree from a plum stone but you have to leave it buried all winter for It to germinate.:hehetable

DaveinGermany 29-06-2011 19:15
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 915432)
Dave your wasting your time he's as thick as a p***stone mate
I like to think of it as verbal skittles, keep settin' 'em up son & I'll keep bowling 'em over ! :rolleyes: :D

cmonstanley 29-06-2011 19:22
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
well as i am in position to see it all happening yous havent got a clue where i work 16 people have left and no ones been replaced the top company who have been awarded contracts are australian who have already failed in holland one is a security firm who paid the tories thousands in donations at the elections and another one started as an employment agency think what you want but i know what i think;)

cmonstanley 29-06-2011 19:26
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 915426)
You can't let it lie can you ? Any platform to get your petulant opinions across ! The issue is about striking teachers (although the title mentions other public servant) TJ's, Jane Norman (whoever they are ?), Habitat, Curries & Thorntons, remind me again just when they began teaching or failing that when they became part of the Public sector ?

Make your mind up will you lad ! The despised private sector with it's evil managers employing thousands (but exploiting the masses) or the benificient public sector ousting thousands of poor workers, cutting services but maintaining the extravagant levels of pay to managers & ne'er do wells !

Careful you don't bruise your plums as you straddle that fence. :rolleyes:
when the civil servants that have been paid off and the more that are being paid off plus stealing pensions is going to lessen the spending power of the british public as i say an economy needs money to be successfull take money out and you get recession;)

DaveinGermany 29-06-2011 19:49
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915460)
well as i am in position to see it all happening yous havent got a clue where i work 16 people have left and no ones been replaced (making savings without forcing redundancies .... I thought that'd appeal to your way of thinking) the top company who have been awarded contracts are australian (So ? Are they going to be bringing in only Aussies & Abbo's to work for them or more likely employ local workers) who have already failed in holland one is a security firm who paid the tories thousands in donations at the elections and another one started as an employment agency (here we go, immaterial & blatant bashing !) think what you want but i know what i think;) (It's probably best that way)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915463)
when the civil servants that have been paid off and the more that are being paid off plus stealing pensions is going to lessen the spending power of the british public (how so ? Are they going to leave the Country & spend their cash elsewhere ? And how does the actions of these people effect the British public ? where they secret millionaires giving away their pennies to the poor & needy ?) as i say an economy needs money to be successfull (agreeed, but when that money is borrowed to maintain said spending ..... not really a viable business model as some day the heavies will come knocking looking for their pound of flesh) take money out and you get recession;)
Strike !!!! And not one of your militant ones either ! ;)

Gordon Booth 29-06-2011 20:06
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915463)
an economy needs money to be successfull take money out and you get recession;)
You still haven't got it, have you? We HAVEN'T any money! We're broke, bust, bankrupt. Any money we spend we've borrowed and will have to pay back.
The private sector has lost jobs, accepted reduced wages and pensions( or lost them altogether).Why does the public sector feel they should be immune to the problems this country has and be able to carry on with their guaranteed jobs, early retirement, inflation proof pensions etc.? Even their salaries are now better, on average, than the private sector.
What caused this mess is history but we're all in it together. There's a lot of pain to be felt and no one should feel they have a right to be immune to it. Especially when someone else will have to fund it.

cmonstanley 29-06-2011 20:22
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
1 Attachment(s)
so were bust where did we find the billion pound for overseas aid we are not as broke as they tell you pakistan ireland the full of africa where did we get that money:eek: a conjuring trick this is ideology they are still going to be paying out more money in benefits for the ever growing dole queue plus less tax revenue, nobody using the service industries+ more on dole queue. less money on corporation tax etc

dusty mears 29-06-2011 20:58
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
if you believe press & govt the country's broke but if you've listened to several presentstions by proffessional economists as i have recently, then it's no way as bad as protrayed. No the country cant sustain certain pensions and that's the govts fault, oh and by the way when cameron miliband & the other clown stand there spouting dont forget they're part of the public pension pot too - no one's reporting that. Fact - pension contributions paid in by most public sector staff isnt ring fenced it disapaites back into the treasury. Govt created prob not employee. Fact - non contribution pensions were/ are paid out & it's wrong. Fact - local govt pension is a fund. Contributions are paid unto a fund pot, it's invested, pays in more than is paid out, is sustainable, collectively worth billions & govt have been trying to get their hands on it for years. Dont see that in press!
Good luck for the stike it's not an easy decision to take but enough's enough & point of order, when you're in a union you take the rough with the smooth and fight the fight for the free loaders aka non union members

DaveinGermany 29-06-2011 21:02
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915482)
so were bust where did we find the billion pound for overseas aid
Don't you bother reading what folk say ? I believe Gordon did mention it, to save you looking I've included it below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915475)
We HAVEN'T any money! We're broke, bust, bankrupt. Any money we spend we've borrowed and will have to pay back.
I even mentioned it in post 32 (included in the response), but so you're clear, we've borrowed it & some day the Piper will need paying. So to that end cuts are being made & savings enforced on the public at large. I don't even assume to understand the logic behind certain procedures, but if it's what's seen as beneficial in the long term well so be it.

Whenever something is introduced & someone is going to be inconvenienced or out of pocket the howling & yammering is unrelenting, but if x years down the line things get better, the screams & shouts of outrage are quietly stuffed in the corner & forgotten about, normally, but there'll always be a hardcore of gripers who are never satisfied. ;) If the cap fits & all that. :)

cmonstanley 29-06-2011 21:07
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 

http://falseeconomy.org.uk/uploads/S...13.17_.22_.png
Few people understand how pensions work. The government is relying on this in their attacks on public sector pensions. Ministers claim that they are gold-plated, unreformed and unsustainable. The right-wing press join in by saying that it is unfair that private sector workers’ tax should pay for public sector pensions.
Yet what the government is doing is simple. It is asking public sector workers – already facing a two-year pay freeze, job losses and inflation running higher than it has for more than a decade – to make a further, and even more unfair, contribution to reducing the deficit.
They are doing this by trying to impose an arbitrary extra pension contribution of three per cent of pay on the public sector. This is not a pension reform – it is simply a pay cut.
This comes on top of significant reductions in the value of public sector pensions that blow away the claims that they are unreformed or unsustainable.
Changes negotiated with the previous government reduced the value of public sector pensions by 10 per cent through a range of changes. In particular, under so-called “cap and share”, members agreed to first share – and then fully bear – the costs of any unexpected increase in longevity. This is due to add a billion pounds of extra member contributions.
The National Audit Office closely examined this package and concluded:
“In addition to saving significant sums of money, the changes are projected to stabilise costs in the long-term around their current level as a proportion of GDP.”
So even before anything done by the coalition government or recommended in the Hutton Report, public sector pensions had been both reformed and made sustainable. This is not union assertion, but the hard-headed view of the National Audit Office.
On top of these negotiated changes, the coalition has made a further attack on the value of public service pensions by replacing the Retail Prices Index that has always been used to uprate pensions with the lower Consumer Prices Index. This will further reduce the value of public service pensions by 15 per cent – so we have a cut of 25p in the pound if you combine this with the negotiated changes.
Changing indexation breached the commitments of both coalition parties to protect accrued rights. This is pensions jargon for the pension you have built up in the past. Scheme members made contributions to what they thought was an RPI-linked pension; now they have had its value reduced by 15p in the pound at a stroke.
Yet ministers persist in saying that public sector pensions are unaffordable. The Prime Minister said on Tuesday that the system was in danger of going broke. But this chart in the Hutton Report shows that public service pensions payments will decline as a share of GDP – even before any of the changes proposed in Hutton bite.
http://falseeconomy.org.uk/uploads/pension-c1.gif
Treasury Minister Justine Greening was completely unable to argue that pensions were unaffordable when this was put to her on the Today programme.
No doubt this is exactly the kind of assertion that the Public Accounts Committee had in mind when it said: "Officials appeared to define affordability on the basis of public perception rather than judgement on the cost in relation to either GDP or total public spending."
So public sector pensions are sustainable. They have changed.
That leaves the assertion that they are gold-plated. John Hutton was clear that this is untrue:
“The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated’.”
The figures bear him out. In the big four national schemes the majority of pensions paid are less than £5,600 a year. In the Local Government Scheme half get less than £3,000.
Of course a few very well-paid public servants get considerably more than this. But there are not many of them. And unlike the private sector, where top boardroom pensions are solid gold, not just gold-plated, top public servants are in the same scheme as their staff.
Here is the distribution of civil service pensions. As can be seen the vast majority are well-short of even being modest.
http://falseeconomy.org.uk/uploads/pension-c2.gif
What is true is that many in the private sector get a raw deal – the private sector is now a pensions disaster area. Two out of three private sector workers get no employer help in building up a pension. Even the better employers have not only closed salary related pensions, but significantly cut their contributions to the riskier replacements.
But the answer is not to level down by removing pensions altogether from two-thirds of nurses; it is to improve pensions in the private sector. And it is telling that those so keen on attacking this unfairness never talk about the costs of pension tax relief, currently running at £35 billion a year – more than the cost of public sector pensions and heavily skewed towards the rich.
It is no wonder that public sector workers are angry. One union on strike has never taken such action in its history before. Unions know that pensions are long-term arrangements that do change over time. Negotiations are common in private and public sector. But the government's agenda seems to have little to do with pension reform. This is simply making public sector workers – most of whom are modestly paid – take on an ever greater part of the burden of closing a deficit they did not cause.

Gordon Booth 29-06-2011 21:07
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Overseas aid should have been cut,in my opinion. However, one billion pounds is a drop in the ocean compared with what we owe and what we are borrowing.
We're borrowing £10 billion/month, we owe about £1 trillion( put twelve '0's after that 1) and the estimates are that we will owe £10 trillion by 2015. If you include Public Sector net debt we ALREADY owe £2.25 trillion. We simply can't afford to live, as a country, as we have been doing.
If every pound pension paid to every ex public sector employee requires 28 pence of unfunded taxpayers money, something HAS to change.

cashman 29-06-2011 21:13
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
most people seem too blind to see were the pension fund money went n it sure as hell wasn't in the ordinary guys pocket, so why should the ordinary person have to fund it? still if it aint plastered all oer the press some will never take the trouble will they?:rolleyes:

cashman 29-06-2011 21:26
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
all yeh hear in the media is- Life expectancy is longer.........any fool is aware of that fact! perhaps its also fools that think this is the reason fer the shortfall,

Gordon Booth 29-06-2011 21:26
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Cashman, we(ordinary working people) have been ripped off by Governments, banks, pension administrators and the companies we worked for. But that is history, we have to look where we are now and HOPE this Government can sort it. If it doesn't Heaven help us and our children and their children! No-one should expect(or feel they have a right) to be excluded from the actions needed.

cashman 29-06-2011 21:33
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915526)
Cashman, we(ordinary working people) have been ripped off by Governments, banks, pension administrators and the companies we worked for. But that is history, we have to look where we are now and HOPE this Government can sort it. If it doesn't Heaven help us and our children and their children! No-one should expect(or feel they have a right) to be excluded from the actions needed.
complete crap IMHO, any government could have sorted it since at least the 80s, everyone who has paid into funds fer years should be excluded, they didn't cause the shortfall by living longer.:(

cmonstanley 29-06-2011 21:37
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
thats why theyve raised the age in hope people will just die off while they are in work:eek:

Gordon Booth 29-06-2011 21:42
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915531)
complete crap IMHO, any government could have sorted it since at least the 80s,:(
But they didn't, did they? We were let down by Governments of both parties and now we have a mess to sort.

cashman 29-06-2011 21:46
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915537)
But they didn't, did they? We were let down by Governments of both parties and now we have a mess to sort.
well aware of that, but why do you think the workers should pay? there were massive surpluses in pension funds in the 80s Fact. what happened to those? answer that truthfully n tell me no-one should be excluded.

cmonstanley 29-06-2011 21:47
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915526)
Cashman, we(ordinary working people) have been ripped off by Governments, banks, pension administrators and the companies we worked for. But that is history, we have to look where we are now and HOPE this Government can sort it. If it doesn't Heaven help us and our children and their children! No-one should expect(or feel they have a right) to be excluded from the actions needed.
your talking drivel, the people who created this were the bankers ,shareholders,investment firms ,thatchers eighties who promoted the free market without any ground rules they are the ones who should be paying if they never tax dodged done deals with hmrc we wouldnt be in this mess not the civil servants who have paid into the pot .this is theft robert maxwell was getting prosecuted for doing the very same thing before he drowned i just dont get it the civil servants never created the problem they signed a contract and now its getting broke they are just being made scapegoats

Gordon Booth 29-06-2011 21:54
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915541)
well aware of that, but why do you think the workers should pay? there were massive surpluses in pension funds in the 80s Fact. what happened to those? answer that truthfully n tell me no-one should be excluded.
Because it's the poor damned workers who create the wealth of a country in the first place. And when it all goes wrong it's the poor damned workers who pay the price, like it or not.Whatever their job. An unpalatable fact!

cashman 29-06-2011 21:59
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915547)
Because it's the poor damned workers who create the wealth of a country in the first place. And when it all goes wrong it's the poor damned workers who pay the price, like it or not.Whatever their job. An unpalatable fact!
yep but why do people like you Gordon (assuming yer not a Lord) say ok we should pay the price? its no wonder we have to.

walkinman221 29-06-2011 22:01
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Are mp's having to do the same with their pension scheme, retirement ages ,pay rises etc i would bet not:rolleyes:

Mancie 29-06-2011 22:06
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915526)
Cashman, we(ordinary working people) have been ripped off by Governments, banks, pension administrators and the companies we worked for. But that is history, we have to look where we are now and HOPE this Government can sort it. If it doesn't Heaven help us and our children and their children! No-one should expect(or feel they have a right) to be excluded from the actions needed.
It's all very well saying no-one should be exluded from what you, this government the press say is needed but how can it be fair to cut corporation taxes for big business while at the same time increase VAT and cut the wages and pensions of working people?.. are teachers or any others in the public sector not workers?

Wynonie Harris 29-06-2011 22:06
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinman221 (Post 915549)
Are mp's having to do the same with their pension scheme, retirement ages ,pay rises etc i would bet not:rolleyes:
You would've won your bet, Dave! :rolleyes:

MPs want to reform their pensions. Just not yet | Tom Clark | Comment is free | The Guardian

walkinman221 29-06-2011 22:14
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 915556)
Thought i might,:rolleyes: plus when they have had shortfalls in their scheme they have "borrowed" money from other schemes, in particular the miners pension scheme, because nobody seems to be drawing much from:( that seeing as most of them are.:(

wallop79 29-06-2011 22:36
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
After finding out today that I will have to work for 7 yrs longer, pay £40+ per month more into the pension pot but be £50+ k worse off it would be wrong not to strike. Yes things might need to change but dont penalise the people who are already paying into these pension schemes, a fairer option is to make the changes to new starters.

Mancie 29-06-2011 22:50
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallop79 (Post 915568)
After finding out today that I will have to work for 7 yrs longer, pay £40+ per month more into the pension pot but be £50+ k worse off it would be wrong not to strike. Yes things might need to change but dont penalise the people who are already paying into these pension schemes, a fairer option is to make the changes to new starters.
Is this a wind up?... I don't believe this strike is just about looking after yerself but also the thought that it could be the thin end of a wedge.. this is a right wing government no matter the mutterings from the Lib-Dems.. and right wing tory governments hate unions.. they will slip wind and turn to confuse the "public" anyway they can... I'd say don't get involved with a strike unless you are thinking of the future of your work mates and those to come.. not just yourself.

cashman 29-06-2011 22:58
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
the fair option wallop,is to make those payback the shortfalls, who creamed off the massive surpluses.

Mancie 29-06-2011 23:35
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915577)
the fair option wallop,is to make those payback the shortfalls, who creamed off the massive surpluses.
The miners were bleed dry by that tory government and the bitch who should not be named.. most of the pension fund was robbed by the tories in an attempt to make good thier pathetic attempt to run any economy..ok it's time to put that all behind but a tory government spells big nasty schite ahead.. strikes..lets hope not as bad as the early 80's..we live in hope .. I think http://www.johnandgarindasdive.com

garinda 29-06-2011 23:45
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915547)
Because it's the poor damned workers who create the wealth of a country in the first place. And when it all goes wrong it's the poor damned workers who pay the price, like it or not.Whatever their job. An unpalatable fact!
It is quite amusing, Millie Tant and comrades, supporting the poor and downtrodden. Many of whom are on more than a fifty grand a year, plus their golden handcuffed pensions.

I wonder how much support there'll be tomorrow from those in the private sector?

Especially if they haven't had a pay increase for three years, and have only the state pension to look forward to.

'Up the workers.'?

'We're the ones being truly shafted.'?

Guess we'll just have to wait until tomorrow, to see what they think.

:rolleyes:

garinda 29-06-2011 23:49
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallop79 (Post 915568)
After finding out today that I will have to work for 7 yrs longer, pay £40+ per month more into the pension pot but be £50+ k worse off it would be wrong not to strike. Yes things might need to change but dont penalise the people who are already paying into these pension schemes, a fairer option is to make the changes to new starters.
Didn't they make a film about something like that?

I'm All Right Jack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:rolleyes:

Neil 30-06-2011 06:30
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Here is a link to see which schools are affected today Industrial Action: Thursday 30th June 2011 - Industrial Action

wallop79 30-06-2011 08:36
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
[QUOTE=MancieIs this a wind up?... I don't believe this strike is just about looking after yerself but also the thought that it could be the thin end of a wedge..... I'd say don't get involved with a strike unless you are thinking of the future of your work mates and those to come.. not just yourself.[/QUOTE]

No its not a wind up, I was giving you all an example, I am just 1 in hundreds of thousands that this would affect, a majority of my collegues would be affected a lot worse than I am. So yes damn right im doing this for my workmates, those in the union & those that aren't, as well as myself and im def in it for the long haul.

cashman 30-06-2011 08:53
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallop79 (Post 915627)

No its not a wind up, I was giving you all an example, I am just 1 in hundreds of thousands that this would affect, a majority of my collegues would be affected a lot worse than I am. So yes damn right im doing this for my workmates, those in the union & those that aren't, as well as myself and im def in it for the long haul.
Whilst the strikers have my 100% support, why on earth would you or anyone think its a fairer option fer new starters to bear the changes/costs etc, imho thats a very poor example.:eek:

Benipete 30-06-2011 09:08
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915629)
Whilst the strikers have my 100% support, why on earth would you or anyone think its a fairer option fer new starters to bear the changes/costs etc, imho thats a very poor example.:eek:
My thoughts exactly Changes need to be made but stick It up the newbies.

Or the working class can kiss my ass I've got the foremans job at last.:hehetable

jaysay 30-06-2011 09:30
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 915635)
My thoughts exactly Changes need to be made but stick It up the newbies.

Or the working class can kiss my ass I've got the foremans job at last.:hehetable
Is that from the second or third verse of the Red Flag Beni;)

Benipete 30-06-2011 09:36
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 915644)
Is that from the second or third verse of the Red Flag Beni;)
It's from Beni's book on Human Psychology,sub titled I'm Alright Jack.:tongueout:D:D

jaysay 30-06-2011 09:43
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 915645)
It's from Beni's book on Human Psychology,sub titled I'm Alright Jack.:tongueout:D:D
Um was just asking:D:D

Benipete 30-06-2011 10:38
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
It's being discussed on the Jeremy Vine show. BBC radio 2 12-00 mid day.

Should be fun.

wallop79 30-06-2011 11:32
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benipete
My thoughts exactly Changes need to be made but stick It up the newbies.
Or the working class can kiss my ass I've got the foremans job at last.
This is no different than what a lot of companies have already done closing the doors to new starters to company pension schemes, which is not what I want, just that changes be made that dont affect the thousands of people that have already paid into the schemes for years

lettie 30-06-2011 11:57
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
I have every sympathy for this strike. Being a public sector worker myself, I am thoroughly brassed off with the government constantly moving the pensions goalposts. I have paid into my NHS pension for 24 years. The vast majority of NHS workers have very small pensions, they are domestics, porters, catering staff, health care assistants, nurses and midwives. The people getting big pensions are few and far between.

What ticks me off the most is now being told that we are working longer. I believe the police, fire and armed forces will still be able to retire early but not nurses and midwives!!!!!

I would love to ask all of our MPs one question..


If you are hospitalised and are a patient on one of our massive wards, in one of these new super hospitals that are springing up everywhere and you have a cardiac arrest......... Who would you want to run for the Defibrillator??

A 25 year old nurse or a 65 year old nurse????


It's a no brainer.

cashman 30-06-2011 13:02
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallop79 (Post 915667)

This is no different than what a lot of companies have already done closing the doors to new starters to company pension schemes, which is not what I want, just that changes be made that dont affect the thousands of people that have already paid into the schemes for years
that wallop is backpedaling, yeh did say its a fairer system.which implied thats what yer prefer.:rolleyes:

Tealeaf 30-06-2011 13:49
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lettie (Post 915670)
I

If you are hospitalised and are a patient on one of our massive wards, in one of these new super hospitals that are springing up everywhere and you have a cardiac arrest......... Who would you want to run for the Defibrillator??

A 25 year old nurse or a 65 year old nurse????


It's a no brainer.
I'd have the 21 year old blondie and tell her to forget about running for the defibrillator but to get herself straddled over the hospital trolley and start giving me some serious chest message.

That's the no brainer!

cmonstanley 30-06-2011 18:22
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 915593)
It is quite amusing, Millie Tant and comrades, supporting the poor and downtrodden. Many of whom are on more than a fifty grand a year, plus their golden handcuffed pensions.

I wonder how much support there'll be tomorrow from those in the private sector?

Especially if they haven't had a pay increase for three years, and have only the state pension to look forward to.

'Up the workers.'?

'We're the ones being truly shafted.'?

Guess we'll just have to wait until tomorrow, to see what they think.

:rolleyes:
if thats what you think you are way way off the mark at least 70% of civil servants are on half of that and are paid less than people who do the same work in private firms your having a laugh you have just proved you havent got a clue what your talkin about and took in all the tory propoganda:eek:

cmonstanley 30-06-2011 18:32
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
BBC News - Today - Are public sector pensions affordable?

jaysay 30-06-2011 18:55
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915743)
No there not

garinda 30-06-2011 18:57
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915739)
if thats what you think you are way way off the mark at least 70% of civil servants are on half of that and are paid less than people who do the same work in private firms your having a laugh you have just proved you havent got a clue what your talkin about and took in all the tory propoganda:eek:
I was asking a rhetorical question. Referring to how much support there'd be for today's strike, from workers in the private sector.

I never said it's what I think.

Besides, if you read it again, perhaps putting your finger under each word as you read aloud, you'll see I didn't give figures, but said 'many of whom are on more than fifty grand a year'.

Which is the case.

I know many in the teaching profession who earn that, and more.

Do try and read things more carefully.

There are 'many' other people more likely to catch me out, before you ever do.

;)

Bee 30-06-2011 20:41
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Sssssssssssttttttttttttttttrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddd ddddaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

garinda 30-06-2011 20:46
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee (Post 915777)
Sssssssssssttttttttttttttttrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddd ddddaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Strike a light!

You're right.

There was major industrial action today.

Though those in a coma could have missed this news.

Gordon Booth 30-06-2011 20:47
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Bee, your contributions are always appreciated and well worth reading but you REALLY must spray some WD40 on that keyboard!

cmonstanley 30-06-2011 20:52
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
yes they are lol:p

garinda 30-06-2011 21:32
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 915748)
I was asking a rhetorical question. Referring to how much support there'd be for today's strike, from workers in the private sector.

I never said it's what I think.

Besides, if you read it again, perhaps putting your finger under each word as you read aloud, you'll see I didn't give figures, but said 'many of whom are on more than fifty grand a year'.

Which is the case.

I know many in the teaching profession who earn that, and more.

Do try and read things more carefully.

There are 'many' other people more likely to catch me out, before you ever do.

;)
It's reported in the press that the Treasury released figures today exposing how public sector retirement funds dwarf their private sector counterparts.

The figures released show that a mid-ranking teacher on £32,000 a year will receive a final salary pension that is the equivalent of having built up a £500,000 pension pot.

I haven't yet seen a poll, showing what support there was for today's industrial action, from those working in the private sector. But as I rhetorically asked, it will be interesting to know.

Public sector strike: £500,000 pension pot of striking teachers revealed - Telegraph

Public Vs Private Sector Pensions: Who Is Better Off In Retirement? | Business | Sky News

cashman 30-06-2011 21:38
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
a thing no-one seems to mention when yeh about to start in any job, yer offered a package, which yeh accept, if yeh don't like it,yeh dont start simple as, why when yeh been working fer years, can that package be reduced? Particularly when its someone elses fault.

garinda 30-06-2011 21:44
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915796)
a thing no-one seems to mention when yeh about to start in any job, yer offered a package, which yeh accept, if yeh don't like it,yeh dont start simple as, why when yeh been working fer years, can that package be reduced? Particularly when its someone elses fault.

What you say is quite right.

Though many in the private sector saw their pensions diminish, from what they expected them to be, and the age at which they are able to retire rise.

I'm genuinely curious as to what public support there is for today's strike.

walkinman221 30-06-2011 21:46
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lettie (Post 915670)
I have every sympathy for this strike. Being a public sector worker myself, I am thoroughly brassed off with the government constantly moving the pensions goalposts. I have paid into my NHS pension for 24 years. The vast majority of NHS workers have very small pensions, they are domestics, porters, catering staff, health care assistants, nurses and midwives. The people getting big pensions are few and far between.

What ticks me off the most is now being told that we are working longer. I believe the police, fire and armed forces will still be able to retire early but not nurses and midwives!!!!!

I would love to ask all of our MPs one question..


If you are hospitalised and are a patient on one of our massive wards, in one of these new super hospitals that are springing up everywhere and you have a cardiac arrest......... Who would you want to run for the Defibrillator??

A 25 year old nurse or a 65 year old nurse????


It's a no brainer.
Yeah but it could be a really fat unfit 25 year old nurse:D:D

garinda 30-06-2011 21:47
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 915797)
What you say is quite right.

Though many in the private sector saw their pensions diminish, from what they expected them to be, and the age at which they are able to retire rise.

I'm genuinely curious as to what public support there is for today's strike.
I don't really have that much personal knowledge, regarding the ins and outs of this action.

I officially became a pensioner at forty.

:eek::D:eek:

garinda 30-06-2011 21:51
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915796)
a thing no-one seems to mention when yeh about to start in any job, yer offered a package, which yeh accept, if yeh don't like it,yeh dont start simple as, why when yeh been working fer years, can that package be reduced? Particularly when its someone elses fault.
In the private sector, changes can happen all the time, from when you first start a job.

Pay freezes.

Short time.

Differing work conditions.

You have to accept it, or look for another job.

cashman 30-06-2011 21:52
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 915797)
What you say is quite right.

Though many in the private sector saw their pensions diminish, from what they expected them to be, and the age at which they are able to retire rise.

I'm genuinely curious as to what public support there is for today's strike.
yep it happened to my pension fund, but i jumped ship before it did, thing was i had done a great deal trying to convince folk back in the 80s that this would happen one day, very few would take heed, i know society changed back then, n not fer the better, yeh can take n horse to water, but yer can't make it drink.:(

Gordon Booth 30-06-2011 21:53
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915796)
a thing no-one seems to mention when yeh about to start in any job, yer offered a package, which yeh accept, if yeh don't like it,yeh dont start simple as, why when yeh been working fer years, can that package be reduced? Particularly when its someone elses fault.
Unfortunately, cashman, in the private sector it can be. In some cases to Zero. In many cases, you were simply told your contributions had to increase, your benifits on retirement would fall and the scheme was effectively BUST. I speak from experience. No negotiations, no strikes, just be glad you would get something. Whose fault? It doesn't matter, you have to face the tough facts, life's a bitch.
A Public Service Pension? I wish.

cashman 30-06-2011 21:55
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 915808)
Unfortunately, cashman, in the private sector it can be. In some cases to Zero. In many cases, you were simply told your contributions had to increase, your benifits on retirement would fall and the scheme was effectively BUST. I speak from experience. No negotiations, no strikes, just be glad you would get something. Whose fault? It doesn't matter, you have to face the tough facts, life's a bitch.
A Public Service Pension? I wish.
Read my last post.

cmonstanley 30-06-2011 21:58
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
2 wrongs dont make right.

cashman 30-06-2011 21:59
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915810)
2 wrongs dont make right.
Oh they do to some clearly.:rolleyes:

garinda 30-06-2011 22:03
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915810)
2 wrongs dont make right.
No they don't.

Though I'm still looking forward to seeing evidence of what support there is from private sector workers, for their downtrodden brethren who took part in today's industrial action.

;)

cmonstanley 30-06-2011 22:09
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
the public pensions are amongst the lowest in the ocd the private sector should be catching up with the public sector not the other way round .what you are saying that pensioners should live in poverty. whatever way it goes the tax payer is going to pay or are they going to scrap pensions all together ??

garinda 30-06-2011 22:17
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 915818)
the public pensions are amongst the lowest in the ocd the private sector should be catching up with the public sector not the other way round .what you are saying that pensioners should live in poverty. whatever way it goes the tax payer is going to pay or are they going to scrap pensions all together ??
Sadly most private sector workers don't live in some utopian Shangri-la, where what they'd like to happen, i.e. retire early, on a comfortable pension, doesn't.

Again, a rhetorical question, will private sector workers be happy to work longer, and pay more in tax, to help fill the more generous pension pots of their public sector working brethren?

cashman 30-06-2011 22:19
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 915814)
No they don't.

Though I'm still looking forward to seeing evidence of what support there is from private sector workers, for their downtrodden brethren who took part in today's industrial action.

;)
i would honestly guess rindy, that there is much less than years ago, as i said society changed in the 80s.;)

garinda 30-06-2011 22:34
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915824)
i would honestly guess rindy, that there is much less than years ago, as i said society changed in the 80s.;)
We've discussed this before, and we both think the nation's psyche changed forever in May 1979, and we became more concerned with self, than the greater good of society in general.

Again I'm raising the point because I don't know, isn't this different?

'If' private sector workers aren't as keen on supporting today's strikers, might it not be because that they've already had to bite the bullet, and have accepted that the future isn't as rosy as was once promised, because we're in such finacial dire straits?

If they're being forced to work longer, for eventual pensions much smaller than at one time was expected, in order to shore up the more generous state contributions of public sector workers, perhaps that's why there's very little support from them.

garinda 30-06-2011 22:43
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Unfortunately life's sometimes full of unpalatable change.

It's like complaing that you were told life expectancy for someone of your sex, living where you do, was 84.

So how can you possibly have a terminal illness at thirty?

Nothing's written in stone.

Sadly, not even employment benefits and entitlements.

cashman 30-06-2011 22:48
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
fer my money, the nation should stand together n insist those who lost the massive surpluses the pension funds had, should be made to make good, this lot are using the excuse people are living longer, which any fool knows, but thats sod all to do wi the deficits, twill never happen i aint that dumb as to think so, but theres the answer.

Boeing Guy 01-07-2011 06:41
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Well said Cashy

jaysay 01-07-2011 08:42
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee (Post 915777)
Sssssssssssttttttttttttttttrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddd ddddaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
I'd get that keyboard seen to;)

jaysay 01-07-2011 08:52
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 915833)
fer my money, the nation should stand together n insist those who lost the massive surpluses the pension funds had, should be made to make good, this lot are using the excuse people are living longer, which any fool knows, but that's sod all to do wi the deficits, twill never happen i aint that dumb as to think so, but there's the answer.
Well I know some one who is £79 a week worse of than she should have been, if the pension fun she had been paying into for over 25 years had not been rifled, the galling thing is that even after rifling the pension funds and other stealth tax measures we are still up to our neck in debt

cashman 01-07-2011 09:17
Re: Teachers' & other public servants' strike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 915866)
Well I know some one who is £79 a week worse of than she should have been, if the pension fun she had been paying into for over 25 years had not been rifled, the galling thing is that even after rifling the pension funds and other stealth tax measures we are still up to our neck in debt
Which has absolutely sod all to do wi the poor sods who are getting stuffed.;)


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