Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Ya what with empty shops and dog stabbers we're getting more like Scotland every day;)

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Trouble is Margaret they don't own the Arndale, George Slynn sold the lease to furnish the Globe centre

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Yes, I know John, but they must be losing money at a rate of knots. Empty shops bring in no revenue and not only that, they make the place much less attractive to shoppers.
So even those shops which are still open must be seeing a downturn in the footfall.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Not wishing to seem defending the council god forbid, don't really know what they can do about it really, when they held the lease they had a say but back in those days everything was sacrificed to furnish the Slynn/Rix dream of the Globe centre, now the town centre is reaping what was sown 15 or 16 years ago

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

No, John........I don't think there is much they can do about it either.
The land would make a good bus station though(if the Arndale was knocked down).

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Trouble wi a new Bus Station, folk have to have a reason to come here?:eek:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

And to be fair how many people actually use buses these days to warrent a new state of the art bus station:rolleyes:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Reckon most people,i see on em, have Bus Passes like me.;)

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Ya mean theres only oud codgers use um cashy:rolleyes:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Yes, and those who live here will use the new bus station to take their cash out of town to spend.
We use the buses, but again we fall into the old codger brigade.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

a lot of people who wont be able to afford the fuel for their cars,this recession aint over yet;)

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Nor will they be able to afford the bus fare. It is over £2 from Accrington to Clayton......just a bit more and you could get a taxi right to your door.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

your also gurenteed a seat and room for your shopping.No wonder buses are struggling.

it wasntthat long ago you could get a bus to blackburn for 50p

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I despair for Accrington! Are there any shops left besides lancsdave and the Maundy shops?
What well known names are still there in the centre? Surely M&S but who else?

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I buy all clothing on line at M&S and the £3 delivery charge is half the price of the taxi there and back.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Thing is, if theres 2/3 of yeh,live in same area,its cheaper if yeh share a taxi.:rolleyes:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Spot on Cashy....that is what quite a few folk do...especially the youngsters(teens/twenties).

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Don't think Dave will be over excited at being mentioned in the same sentence as Maundy Gordon:rolleyes:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Young uns have been doing that for years cashy, when we were young we caught the bus into Accy on Saturday night, now they meet in their local and ring for a cab door to door boozing :rolleyes:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Now I feel real old ... I remember when a tanner got me from the Forts to the Black Dog:(

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Well I can remember when it was four old pence to get into town(from the Load of Mischief) Eric....so I have to reckon that I'm in the same boat as you.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

... or bus. :p

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I thought the bus was far too ordinary Sue.......I know Eric is a man of taste:).

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Yes you can see that from his profile pic:hidewall: - and he is on Accyweb after all..

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I don't take too much heed of external appearances...it is what is on the inside that matters...and yes...of course...he is on Accyweb.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Catching the bus to accy back in school days it was a tuppany please, ah how times have changed

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Ah you've seen Retlaw too:D:D:D

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

well, no John...I only have my mental picture of him. :)

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Hell that must be scary:eek::eek::D

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Not really John....I have him with his benevolent face on.....you can have anything you want in your imagination :D
That's the good thing about imagination.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Ya I suppose so Margaret, but Retlaw with a benevolent face:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:happen after a few of these:thepint::thepint:maybe:D:Dbut its more devilent to me:D:D

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

When the thread wanders have finished this is actually quite a tragic picture for our town centre, although not entirely unexpected. The DorothyPerkins/ Burtons in Blackburn's Mall closed when it's lease expired, I fully expected the Accy one to do the same, it makes no money and hasn't for years. It's sad because it's been a presence there since the opening of the Arndale, and I know the manager Phil, he's tried his best but it's over-priced forAccy.
If New Look goes we have effectively lost all outlets for young fashions, other than Peacocks, which although I am pleased to see still here is not what todays young teens want.
I have mentioned before that M&S is only still in Accy because of preferential business rates deals, I don't know if this is still the case but I would be amazed it they are actually breaking even.
It's online/Asda/Matalan or Blackburn, just goes to prove that you don't actually need a big, scary retail park at Whitebirk to kill your town....

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

That's a fair comment Lindsay. I'm sure we all agree there is no easy answer. There's a person employed by the council as a Town Centre manager. Does anybody know his plans ? If he has any then who should he be sharing them with, a select few or the public in general. Surely there should be a council plan somewhere, is it secret or am I expecting too much as a resident of the town and a retailer in the town to actually know whereabouts on the council website I can find it.

I have to be honest we keep going from week to week. We can't plan any long term growth in the shop. Some may say thats my fault, we aren't running the business properly but when you have a shop in a town centre you're dependency on the footfall of that town centre is relatively high to survival.

The only plan we have is to grow the internet is the side because thats the only expansion we can see. The town's dying on it's backside and there's a lot of Nero's fiddling while it burns. Or at least that's the perception, unless somebody can tell me otherwise,

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Lindsay of course it is a tragic picture. Don't you think that we old codgers don't know that? There are many facets to the problem...not least of which are the transport links...and to some degree, the way the planners have taken the heart out of the town.
We old codgers have much more to compare it with. We can remember when it was a truly vibrant town. As for the thread wanders...that is how conversation is. It meanders and takes in other side topics. It keeps the thread up there in the faces of people too. You might find it an irritation, but others may not...they may see it for what it is....a conversation...but online.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Well if every thread kept on topic they'd die a very quick death, but the thing is if people don't like what they see they have the prerogative not to read it, simple really;)

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Straight to the point John - well said.

I like this - a thread wander about thread wanders!!

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Always try to please susie, always try to please:rolleyes:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I wasn't being pedantic, although now out of retail it's a topic close to my heart. I managed shops in Accrington for over 20 years and actually do know what I'm talking about. It pains me when a well known chain goes bust, it's happened to me twice and ended up in rubbish redundancy pay from the government as the company has no money.

It's a case of use it or lose it, as I have said before, Accy won't get a Next or a River Island, if New Look can't make a dollar here, there's no way.
We now have no book shop, no music shop ( unless you count Custard Cube), nowhere for ladies of a certain age to buy their clothes other than M&S. The Arndale has had empty units constantly for at least the last 15 years,( Cryers to name one) there's no incentive for businesses to go in there, they get a 6 month deal and then whoosh, you can't afford to be open.
We used to have a healthfood store on Union st, and a decent seconds outlet....
Same in the market, we used to have 3 cheese stalls, now we have 1.
The fruit and veg market is tiny, although if you want your phone unlocking or some fake luggage the world is your oyster.

I feel for the the likes of Superdrug and Holland & Barratt, you look around the mall and see what's going on, it's not promising. Glad I am out of it.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I see Accy centre has made news ( history )in the Telegraph. How long did it take them to realise what we have been saying all along.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Okay, so now I'm curious, what exactly are you talking about Frank ? A link or some such would be appreciated. Or is this some kind of feline entrapment routine you naughty Collie. :)

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/hyndburn Try that Dave

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

If people can get the same or a similar product for less elsewhere, then that is what they will do.......and as for use it or lose it...you can't use something that isn't there. Shopping habits have changed.......people have less money to spend, but yet the shops open 7 days a week...where is the sense in that.
Opening more days costs more money so therefore eats into profits....ah Yes, I hear you say, but if they don't open then people will go online or to the supermarket.......so there is no real answer. Except, we have been to Bury today and the Market was very busy, (this inspite of the fact that it was a miserable grey day with the threat of rain). Why do you think that is?
It might have something to do with the fact that it is a good market with a very diverse range of produce at very competitive prices.
We went through Ramsbottom......a small town. Even that was very busy, with shoppers thronging the main street.
What these towns are doing to bring in trade...surely, could be emulated by Accrington.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Thanks, lot clearer now.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

there is a lot of shops shuting

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

"If people can get the same or a similar product for less elsewhere, then that is what they will do.......and as for use it or lose it...you can't use something that isn't there. Shopping habits have changed.......people have less money to spend, but yet the shops open 7 days a week...where is the sense in that.
Opening more days costs more money so therefore eats into profits....ah Yes, I hear you say, but if they don't open then people will go online or to the supermarket.......so there is no real answer. Except, we have been to Bury today and the Market was very busy, (this inspite of the fact that it was a miserable grey day with the threat of rain). Why do you think that is?
It might have something to do with the fact that it is a good market with a very diverse range of produce at very competitive prices.
We went through Ramsbottom......a small town. Even that was very busy, with shoppers thronging the main street.
What these towns are doing to bring in trade...surely, could be emulated by Accrington. "
_______________


I really don't know why you are quoting me here, it's not just my opinion, it's fact and common sense. I'm not defending anyone, we have a rubbish mall, a rubbish market and no-one gives a flying toss. I am only bothered because I still live here, I work in Blackburn and could do my shopping there, as it happens I do my big shop online as I don't drive but the fact is that if i wanted to spend money on a nice pair of shoes/jeans etc I would now have to go out of town. Or buy online, end of.___

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Re Ramsbottom, I have a friend with a shop there, even they have been having a hard time of it. It's picturesque and trying to be the next Hebden Bridge,but times are hard whether you are selling hand made jam or 20 for a £3 quid knock off bog roll. :eek:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I am quoting you for the very same reason that you quoted me. I suppose that what I posted was not common sense then.

Of course the Mall is rubbish. But why is that? And I think there are quite a lot of people who do give a toss,but feel powerless to do anything.
You yourself, shop online so you are not following your own maxim of 'use it or lose it'.

Times are hard in the retail sector. However you look at it, Ramsbottom is attracting the footfall...which makes them streets ahead of Accrington.
We go through there most Saturdays and there are always people in the tearooms, on the station and in the main street......some of them must be spending.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Totally agree with Margaret..shopping habits HAVE changed.

Frozen veg which is blast frozen is often fresher than veg sold on the market...gone are the days when the woman would spend her day peeling carrots and chopping cabbage, she doesn't have the time, she's out working.

The example of 3 cheese stalls...none of which, in my recollection, sold low fat, mozarella, edam, gouda, brie, bavarian smoked..eating habits and tastes change, if the seller doesn't provide, he goes under.

The thing about Bury, Skipton and Fleetwood markets is that they have a diversity of stalls and shops, set in a compact area that does not feel overcrowded. There's no free parking, but, as a driver, I'd rather pay £2-£3 for a couple of hours easy parking than negotiate the Arndale on a market day. Those markets always look clean and, to quote Councillor Pritchard, are 'vibrant'. Which Accrington market most definitely is not.

There used to be a guy who won award after award for his sausages tucked away on Warner Street, who knew about him apart from locals and other sausage makers? He should have been given a low rent stall/shop smack dab in the middle of the market, should have been advertised, 'Accrington-home of the best sausages in the world', instead he got the annual page two Observer comment.

As long as we have councillors who pay lip service and think we have a vibrant market, the town will suffer, what is needed is a councillor with the cohones to say, 'its a mess, it's totally screwed, let's knock the whole lot down and start again'

I won't hold my breath with either this lot (or the last lot)

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Shopping habits certainly have changed without doubt, But a vibrant Market will always attract punters, as Accys once did, Thing is from my viewpoint, if yeh got that,then yeh got a far better chance of attracting decent retail stores to town, slong as its attractive to em! That also means "NOT" screwing em wi high rates. Its a nice thought, but gone down to far now to ever happen IMHO.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Yeah, I also think it's past the point of no return..but..

I'd love to buy a decent pork pie or sausage that wasn't pre packed and full of water and sawdust to bulk it out, without having to travel 30 miles.

I'd love to be able to buy the grandkids the equivalent of a sixpenny toy (plastic man with a parachute, balsa wood gilder, jacks and bobs)

I want a craft shop where I can introduce the grandkids to model planes, ships, train sets, scalextric, subuteo and plasticine.

What I don't want are numerous pound shops selling screwdrivers made out of metal that are softer than screws, padlocks that can be opened with a paper clip and batteries that have less storage charge than a prepacked Tesco lemon.

As I see it, markets need to cater for all ages, tripe and pork pies for us old gits, clothing for the early teens, toys for the kids and trending stuff for the late teens (currently informed that the selling market is in 70's,80's vintage stuff).....of which Accrington has.....Nada!

P.S. if 70's and 80's are considered vintage does that make me dinosaurian? :eek:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

First look at the town arteries. They have all been blocked or choked. I was shocked when I visited the town and found no simple way in or through from any point of the compass. There used to be a vibrant market, but there also used to be a bus service to and from all points of the town and surrounds (Oswaldtwistle, Church, Clayton, Dill Hall, Ormerod etc.) at a frequency of about a one every 5 to 10 minutes. Parking used to be semi adequate rather than prohibitive. As I wove through the town and over the speed bumps in my rental car, as best I could, I kept thinking "God help the locals if they need to get emergency vehicles to their house in a hurry"
In short the message thrown off by the town feels like "Don't come here, don't park here, don't even try to cruise through here!"
Sounds like the perfect spot to put a retail operation.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I think I mentioned this point in post 134....that 'the town planners had ripped the heart out of the town'.
And as Guinness has observed, I think it has got past the point of any kind of rescue mission.
People won't come to look at the tubs of flowers on Broadway. You know, the ones that procalim us a 'Floral Market Town'........what will they put on them when the market is dead and buried?

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Just to clarify I "shop online" for my big shop, once a month because I don't drive ( and because I work 40+ hours a week), if I need anything else I either pick it up on my way through Blackburn( where I work) or from Spar on Burnley Rd.On the rare occasion that I have money to spend on clothes it's usually Peacocks!

Shopping online is sometimes the only option too, as I found out when the last 2 things I wanted from Marks and Spencer weren't stocked in my size,but at least you collect from the store there which I suppose encourages you to have a mooch round.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

You can't turn the clock back Margaret, the decline of accy town centre started in the late 80s early 90s and escalated, once its gone it never comes back, I remember writing a letter to the Observer in around 92 saying it wouldn't be long before tumbleweeds would be blowing around Broadway instead of customers, looks like I got that one spot on

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

'The council say the high figure of empty shops is a reflection of the recession and urged local people to support their town centre.'

Call to support Accrington shops as closure figure hits an all-time high (From Lancashire Telegraph)

People might feel more welcome if our councillors stop doing things like removing the soddin' benches, from outside of the Market Hall.

Admittedly there is an issue with with drunks, and druggies in our town.

Address that problem.

Don't punish everyone, by removing facilities used by everyone.

Yes, I know I harp on about this, but it's just one small example of the type of idiotic thinking, by those in control, which is helping to kill this once vibrant town.

Another was allowing a town centre superstore.

Who because our councillors passed the planning permission for this, were bunged a million pounds plus.

Which means for a few short years the flowers towers will look pretty...as the tumbleweed rolls past the ever increasing empty shops.

For those local politicans who think moving the bus station will improve things, dream on.

It'll be somewhere nice for people to wait, as they queue to shop elsewhere.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Unfortunately there are those who sit behind the throne who have very little experience, when it comes to the reality of commerce.

Accrington is never going to be a wooly liberal, Free Trade, arty-farty craft haven, because the town doesn't have the demographic to support such a place.

We do have a population that would have supported a thriving market, but those numpties in charge have managed to kill that.

Leaving towns like Bury to benefit, by attracting even more shoppers to their own market.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I know I've been away from Accy for a long time, but I thought we are always being told that out of town superstores are a bad thing for town centres and now I hear that a town centre superstore is a bad idea. I always thought that Accy was being shortchanged by only having one of the Big Four supermarkets in town, but now there are two, that is not seen as a good thing. I'm confused.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I've only been in Tesco's twice. Once, to collect for a charity.

It was amazing, the number of local councillors I saw shopping in there.

The only two councillors I regularly see shopping in the town centre, are Bernard Dawson, and Wendy Dwyer.

Perhaps others do, but I just haven't seen them, on my twice weekly shopping visits.

Yes, shopping habits have changed.

Paying lip service is fine, but won't help sustain struggling local businesses.

Actually shopping with them, most are more than happy to share the problems they face in Accrington.

Something those in control won't be getting in Tesco's.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Habits have changed.

Many people do like loading up their cars once a week at a supermarket.

However all available information points to the fact that where town centre supermarkets have been granted planning permission, it does have a devastating effect on those small independents, who have somehow managed to stay in business.

Up until that point, at least.

The towns that do still have varied independent retail businesses, generally tend not to have massive town centre supermarkets in those places.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Roy Rogers & Sons Of The Pioneers - Tumbling Tumbleweeds - YouTube very apt.:D

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Yes but even with lots of independent shops most people are still going to do a supermarket type shop every so often. In towns without supermarkets and with independent shops people will have to go to out of town supermarkets for this.

Independent shops tend not to be those where one can buy food, rather they are the type that was lamented in an earlier post; craft shops, bookshops, toyshops etc. And where they do sell food, I can't see folk existing solely on stuff from the likes of the Black Horse Deli, even if they could afford it.

At one time the indoor and outdoor markets supplied all that was necessary in the way of food, with a choice of stalls. Now that choice is limited. The redevelopment of the market, especially outside, has a lot to answer for here.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

It wasn't just food, it was everything that you can now buy in supermarkets.

Clothes, toys, shoes, home furnishing, the list is endless.

As Lindsay posted, Accrington's few remaining market stalls are fine if you want a mobile phone unlocked, or some dodgy knock-off stuff.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Exactly.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Another problem is that now with the advent of the Accrington Observer campaign to get business to Support Maundy Grange, these traders are actually supporting the people who make Accrington a less than pleasant place to shop.
I suppose they feel that if they support something like this local charity, it will endear them to the shoppers. They don't see that some of these undesirables are impacting on trade.

But this is only one of the facets of the problem.......transport links, and the high cost of transport(public) the pedestrianisation of the roads that brought people into the town, the mess that was made of the market, the very poor shopping experience that the Arndale provides.....loss of individual shops all have had an impact......the internet and online shopping seems to be the final nail in the coffin.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

You're right Margaret, it's a real cocktail of problems that can't be cured by one quick fix.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I can understand your reasons for shopping online...and many others do exactly the same for the very same reasons.
So your advice to use it or lose it isn't that practical anymore......pretty much as shopping in the town, where stuff maybe more expensive isn't practical or sensible.
Many of us have limited budgets and have to buy where the very best value for money can be obtained.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Just read this article which says that those hardest hit by tax and benefit changes are those on middle incomes. These are the folks who would be most likely to use any independent shops. The poorest people have had little threat to their income since they are helped by benefit and tax changes.

Higher taxes and stagnant earnings eat into living standards | This is Money

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

That is exactly what I thought when I read the Obs yesterday, can the people supporting St Dorothy that the more they give the more down and outs will flow into Accrington and more and more of their customers will be off shopping somewhere else, nonsensical:mad:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I suspect my views on the issue will not put me among the sheep if that's how the rest of them think.:D

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

ya mean your not furnishing tshirts for the Maundy staff Dave:eek::D:D

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Noticed walking through Arndale this morning, Burtons/Dorothy Perkins,is about to close, I mentioned it to someone n they told me New Look is closing in September.:eek:

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

Heard that M & S is moving into Dorothy Perkins Store selling food only

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I heard that too, but not sure if it means they are moving the food out of the current premises and staying open or closing the big one. Will be a massive blow if they close the main store.

The little newsagents next door to us on Peel St packed and left this week too.

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

22nd August for Burtons I think

Re: Arndale another one bites the dust.
 

I got told yesterday that Burtons have had a reprieve for 3 years.

If true then that would scupper the M&S plans if those rumours were correct