The Ultimate Insult
 

Brussels threatens to sue Britain to let in 'benefit tourists' - Telegraph

I don't usually leave links to news stories with very little comment, C'monStanley-style, but this has left me speechless with rage.

I would like the EU supporters on here to explain how THIS is justified. :mad:

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Ya me as well Wyn, you can just see it can't you, come on peeps throw your things in a suitcase, Athens ain't the place to be anymore lets set of to good old London the pavements are paved with gold and the benefits are far better too:mosher::mad:

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For gawd sake let the people have their say, via a referendum.

This is NOT what people signed up for, when they voted Britain join the Common Market, which was sold as an economic union.

All political parties are too afraid of what the result would be.

Though I don't know why.

Britain managed to be a major player on the world stage for centuries, as an independent entity, not tied to anyone else.

Stories such as the one linked in this thread make 99.99% of the population of this country sick.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad:

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It isn't justified...nor is it justifiable.
It is like many of the inequalites that have been thrust on us by Brussels.
How can it be right that there are known terrorists walking among us who cannot be deported because their lives would be in danger if they were sent back????.......their life matters,(more than ours it seems)despite the fact that they were quite happy to be party to an act of terrorism that would lead many of us to lose our lives.
They hate our way of life, but are happy for us to pay for them to live here.

Surely one person should not have priority over the many....what about our human right to be safe in our own home towns.

I hate the way we were bamboozled into the EU....or Common Market as it was called then.
I am NOT european, never have been, never will be........I am English(British if you must).
We are separated from Europe by a stretch of water........so how can we be lumped in with Europe.
If we got out of it tomorrow, it would not be one minute too soon for me.
Rant over(yes, the story made the red mist descend for me too....maybe it is a generational thing)

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I think the solution is could be a simple one. Any benefits paid out by the UK to people from the EU not born here should be claimed back from the birth country of the claimant.

This should work the other way as well so UK born people claiming benefits in France should be claimed back from the UK by France.

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and to add to that Neil they should be paid at the rate that the claimant would get in their own country.
Perhaps this would deter people from coming here to live, without the intention of finding work.
Anyway I think the European Commission is going to be challenged on this directive.
I'm not saying we will win, but at least a challenge is being mounted.


It would be bad in times of economic stability, but in the current situation it is just plain crazy to expect people to pay more tax in order to support 'benefit tourists'.

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Read the article ... then looked at the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1. It's unbelievable. Seems like referendum time to me ... but, it's none of my business; so, I'll follow the thread and make no more comment. I will, however, take my morning coffee onto my front porch, look at the Maple Leaf on my flagpole; and thank my lucky stars.

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Canada used to have a perfectly decent flag up until 1965. It had the Union flag contained within the top left hand corner. Then it changed to the full maple leaf. That was done, was it not, to make the frogs happy? You got shafted then; we're getting shafted now.

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Workers from the original member states of the EU have the right to reside in the UK and can apply for income-based Jobseekers allowance on passing the habitual residence test and other elligibility restrictions-this usually takes between 1-3 months.

A8 members (the states which joined in 2004) do not have the right to the same benefits until they have been working for 12 consecutive months in the UK.

The 2003 Treaty of Accession allowed EU member states to impose restrictions on the free movement of labour from the A8 states for a maximum of 7 years from May 1st 2004. These measures could only be maintained after 2009 if there were proven to be serious disturbances (or threat thereof) to the UK labour market ie the current recession.
(Extracted from Homeoffice website.)

The EU is obviously pressing for the restrictions on the A8 states to be lifted. It can't be right though for the UK to be expected to act as a safety valve for the rest of Europe in this way. The economic conditions across Europe are such that a great many are out of work -consider for example -here in Italy, a young person searching for their first job has no right to any government support or jobseekers allowance -their family is obliged to maintain them fully. Workers who lose their jobs before 24 consecutive months of work also have no right to assistance if they become unemployed.
This is just one example -other countries are in an even worse position. This is just a illustration of why the UK must seem like the promised land...
The "get out of jail free card" of the 2003 Treaty is the fact that there is currently a double dip recession in act in the UK, presumably the present government will use this in the defence of the current regulations. However ,it must not be forgotten that the Labour government of 2003 DID accept the original treaty and unless the country has a Referendum and decides to leave the EU, the freedom of movement for A8 members will have to come into act at some time -probably in the not to distant future....

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Attachment 18512

:p

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Britain isn't waving.........it is drowning!

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If the legal action is won by the commission, Britain will have to pay means-tested, residence-based benefits – employment support allowance, pension credit, income support – to people when they arrive, even if they have never worked here or paid any contributions and regardless of whether they have any previous link with the UK.

Can you imagine what might happen if some of the more impoverished countries like Albania are allowed into the EU?

...and not one word from the pro-EUers on here! Too ashamed to post, are you? :mad:

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Thats funny thought I'd posted earlier in the thread, must take davemac's advise and go and lie down in a dark room:sleep:

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Whaaat? Are you seriously telling me that's a PRO-EU view? I'd hate to see you when you're anti-something! :D

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Nevermind proposed future members, such as Turkey, and it's seventy five million inhabitants. Even though the majority of the country's not even in Europe, but Asia!

This is total madness.

Let the people decide who governs our country.

Not one single person voted that our laws should be dictated to us from Europe.

Britain voted to enter into an economic union.

This is not it!

Please, at least one government have the courage, and give the people their chance to have their say on whether they want continuing membership of the United States of Europe.

It'll soon be too late, and the structure of what made Britain a great democratic country, will be irreversibly damaged beyond repair, for ever.

:mad:

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Just teasing Wyn,:rolleyes: as I've said recently the more things I here coming from Brussels the more I think we should get the flock out of there, but can't see it, too many businesses are pro Europe

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Our government should grow some, and let them get on with suing cause we are skint and you cant take a stocking of a bare leg, could anyone see the french or the germans putting up with this ? I cant.

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You'd have thought lessons would have been learned, after the dismal failure of the U.S.S.R.

When disparate people and countries were ruled from Moscow, and which eventually broke down because people like to be governed by their own governments, in their own countries.

I might take legal action against the British government.

For becoming involved in one of the biggest cons in world history. Which certainly didn't have a mandate from the British people, arrived at by a clear and fair referendum.

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In the poll that you ran on the EU, Bernard Dawson and Claytonender said they were happy with the present situation. Could they tell us if they're still happy with the present situation and if they are, why?

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Here it is.

Accrington Web - View Poll Results

I predict there'd be an even greater majority who'd be in favour of withdrawal, two more years, of unasked for interference, down the line.

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Eyes up lads Bernards on line now, he'll be answering in a couple of sec's I hope:rolleyes:

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I didn't actually notice any alcohol in the room the other day. Did George bring you a carry-out or something? ;)

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Do you still support 'some independence, but have economic ties'?

The last time people were allowed a say on continuing membership of the Common Market was in 1975, when the result was...

YES - 52.1%

NO - 47.9%

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Never actually realised that the vote was so close (or so low). I'd love to see the figures now, but of course the Tories, Labour and LibDems have all conspired to ensure that never happens.

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In the seventies the Conservatives were broadly pro-Common Market membership, and Labour under Wilson, were against it.

How times of changed.

Broadly both parties are pro, otherwise we'd be allowed a referendum, and the people are anti-continued membership of the centralised governing monster that it has become.

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Ah well, guess it was not to be, Jay. Our Bernard has disappeared into the night without uttering a word on the subject. How strange! ;)

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Those waiting in Calais are from countries like Iran and Afghanistan - ie from outside the EU. If they were from Eastern European countries inside the EU, they wouldn't need to "sneak" into the UK - they can just walk straight in under the EU freedom of movement laws. When they get here, there are some restrictions on the benefits they can receive. Once the EU have sued us, they will be able to walk straight in and claim a full range of benefits.

...and I am still waiting for answers from Claytonender and Bernard on why they are happy with this.

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...and not only are they rubbing our noses in it, they're making us pay through the nose for the privilege.

.Each household lost £299 to Brussels last year - Telegraph

...and still I'm waiting for answers from Claytonender and Bernard on why they're happy with this situation.

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Never heard something so ridiculous. We need a referendum.

Good clip from Newsnight the other night on the Euro..

Peter Oborne 'Idiot' Comments Prompts EU Spokesman To Storm Off Newsnight - YouTube

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'Yesterday, as part of defence cuts required to save £5billion, 1,020 Royal Navy personnel were made redundant.

Meanwhile Mr Cameron persists with not only ring-fencing Britain’s overseas aid but increasing it to £12billion — even though recipients such as Pakistan say they do not want it.'

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I keep the Blond Witch and Speckled Hen well hidden;):D

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No Wyn as per usual, must be awaiting instructions mate;)

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Thanks for putting that link on Rindi, I actually read it but thought I would get hounded for putting a Mail link on:D

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Moorhouses finest, topped up with a bit of Morland.....time for a spot of beer gardening later, methinks.

As for this EU nonsense, I'll happily nail my colours to the mast and state that the time has definitely come for a referendum. I've heard many convincing arguments both for and against remaining within Europe but those for it always seem to fall back on the argument that trade agreements will be utterly destroyed if we ever leave. Although I can understand what they are driving at, many of our own industries have become massively unprofitable because of Europe (farming being a prime example).

If my understanding of the figures is correct, we pay in far more than we get out and certain agreements are in place between countries regarding mutual benefits that would otherwise be withdrawn but if I were in Mr Cameron's shoes quite honestly I would rather take the plunge and risk the wrath of the public by holding a referendum.

It's the ultimate hot potato, but frankly I look on it in England as the ultimate votewinner too.

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That is just history repeating itself too, think of the many Empires which were built and then destroyed in the past. Among them our own glorious British Empire which fizzled out into The Commonwealth back in the 1920's. We currently have 14 dependent territories overseas (mostly tiny islands eg The Falklands) and a total of 54 nations make up the Commonwealth -it's non-political but promotes trade links, culture etc. Something to fall back on if a split from Europe ever did occur...
Just to be provocative, I've been reading this thread with interest and it seems a majority want a referendum and believe it would vote the UK out of Europe. On the other hand, however, we Britts seem to think we have a right to move wherever we want in Europe/The World without limitation. Many retire to the cheaper "sunny" states (my own parents included) and many have holiday homes there. We think we have a right to do so and yet we don't think others in the club (the EU) should have the same un-limited rights to free movement in the opposite direction. Is this not a bit of a paradox? What would happen to the Ex-pats and those who have interests in Europe if a split came about?
The immigration policy in the UK has been too lax for decades and this has brought about the current situation - the country needs skilled workers but has done little to keep home-grown talent from draining away abroad. A cap on immigration has been put into place but that's a bit like closing the gate after the cows have escaped...The benefit system needs tightening up, undoubtedly, and a system of entry similar to the Canadian or Australian model would be an improvement.
To leave Europe now would be a hard nettle to grasp, the economic system in Europe and The World is currently described as a bowl of Spaghetti -you have to be good with a fork to work your way out of it!

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Hmm. I think there is a bit of a difference here mobertol. People all over the world have always been wanderers....and those who have wandered(even those who have settled in sunnier climes in retirement) do not expect to be allowed into the country and claim benefits.....they have lived by the rules of that country, those who have migrated abroad have worked and made their niche in the society they have adopted. they have added something to the community......not subtracted from it.

If you can go to a country and make it your own by working there, or in the case of retired people....improve the economy of the place they have settled in by buying their goods and services, by encouraging friends and family to add to the local economy by spending their tourist cash....then they are entitled to do that.

I do not see the EU as a 'club'. My view of the EU is clearly documented in previous posts, but to reiterate, it is undemocratic....we have no say in who is making the rules......if we don't like what they are doing there is absolutely no opportunity to vote them out.
Many of the countries in the EU choose which rules they will play by and which they won't......but the Uk follows them slavishly.

In the beginning the EU was called the 'Common Market'....it was set up with the precise aim of encouraging trade within the borders of the countries in the EU.

Now, it isn't like that at all, it isn't about trade, it is about politics.........The EU wants to become the United States of Europe....it wants to have more say in how we deal with finances.

The single currency wasn't to make things easier with one type of money throughout all the countries, it wasn't to make trading easier or more economic,it was a cynical political ploy to shackle all the countries together with the manacles of a single currency.
Badly thought out, and look where it has got us.....so why would we want to allow the EU more say in financial policy. It's foolish.
We should have been allowed a referendum before the treaty was ratified.......Ireland had a referendum....they voted No. This vote was not accepted......they were told to go back and vote again and come back with the right answer! Democratic??????? NO, NO, NO.

And just because something is hard....is that a reason to avoid doing it? Should we continue to not mention the elephant in the room because it is an uncomfortable subject.
Ignoring the problem has never been the right answer.
It isn't going to get better and it isn't going to get easier until something very radical is done about the way the EU is run and managed.
Do you know that they(the EU) haven't had a budget audited/ratified in something like 14 years.

For God's sake.......someone please have the guts to get us out, it is sucking us dry.

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The cap on immigration only affects those from outside the EU so as the EU gets bigger, pretty soon we will be forced by EU regulations to take all comers.

And to add insult to injury, allow them to claim benefits from the moment they step on British soil.
Personally, I'm thinking of moving to Poland.......my pension will go further and the level of crime is said to be lower.

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The weathers not as good though Margaret.

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Right then, I won't give my damp weather gear to the charity shop , I'll take it with me.

I feel like Germany won the war, I feel like a stranger in my own land.
I have worked all my life,contributed to the fabric of society.......now I feel really aggrieved that the EU can issue a directive which allows EU migrants to draw all benefits ......it is my money they are using to pay these people, who only want to come here because the benefits are cushy and they don't have to work.

Somebody help me down from this high horse.......I've got me foot caught!

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My money as well Margaret. Don't necessarily disagree with what you say I would only add that there's a few who were born in this Country, who are not slow when it comes to claiming benefits.

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That's the sysytem that's to blame.

A system that three consecutive Labour governments did nothing to change.

Indeed it could be argued that Labour actively encouraged whole swathes of the population to live supported by the benefits system.

Sadly we're paying the price now.

That's ignoring the astronomical price we'll all be paying in the future.

When forced to fund every European immigrant's benefits claim...just as soon as they eagerly hop off the ferry.

:mad:

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I just think that abusing the benefit system is wrong, regardless who's doing it

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Yes we do, but we go to work & put into the system, our labouring elsewhere doesn't result in a depreciating in the level of wages paid. I live in Germany I came originally with the Army, but on release I stayed here & went into a work environment supporting the society I'd chosen to join. I had to adapt & conform (no translators or paperwork in my Mother tongue, the language here is German, end of, learn it's that simple)

As to the other group of Brits you mention "Retiree's", completely different context, they have their own money paid to them by their Country of origin & they're not expecting to have everything paid to/for them by the host Country where they presently reside. I would also presume they pay the relevant dues & taxes from their income, so as stated entirely different.

I suppose being here gives me a clearer view as to what's happening in the UK as I'm outside looking in & that distance tends to add perspective. I travel back usually once a year & the changes I see are truly alarming. Problem is though you make any comment about it in UK & you're a xenophobic, racist bigot. Why ? Just because you're concerned about the state of your Country, sorry days indeed.

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Quite agree, but that's a different issue. Namely criminal fraud.

I was referring to a system nurtured under three consecutive Labour governments, in which people were better off claiming benefits, than working for a living.

That was wrong too.

Wrong that is, of the idiots in charge at the time.

I think Wynonie asked you a question earlier in the thread, wanting to know if you'd still vote for continuing membership of the E.U., as it stands today?

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Without any doubt I would vote to stay in the E.U.

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Thank you, I'm sure Wynonie will be pleased you've answered.

As we all are, the electorate.

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Yes, many people who worked and paid taxes are putting into a pot for those who have no intention of working.

And those who were born here and live their life off the backs of other peoples labour.....well, it is unacceptable, but they are only half to blame.
The other half of the blame lies with the benefits system.
Benefits should be a helping hand, not a career option.

No political party has ever had the guts to tackle the problems with the benefits system.

However you look at it, it cannot be right that someone comes from the eastern bloc and can claim every benefit going the minute they land.

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For God's sake why????


It is a money pit.......it is undemocratic, we have no way of influencing our own county's policies. It is corrupt. They are going to be telling us next what kind of paper we can wipe our bums on......probably Euro notes!

I am not European.........I do not wish to be part of the United Soviet State of Europe.

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I wonder if we can deduce the ruling party at H.B.C. are all fervently pro-E.U.?

Since it was only last week they invited 'our' M.E.P., Labour's Brian Simpson, to speak at the meeting of the full council.

Strange how so many politicans, from all sides, are so pro- the madness that is the United States of Europe, masquerading as the European Union, and according to every poll, the people of Britain are now so against it.

Any politican worth their salt better wise us quick.

The next election won't be won because we have weekly rubbish collections, tuition fees rises, uneven N.H.S. care, or even the question whether removing benches makes alcoholics magically disappear too.

It will be won over membership of the E.U., and Britain constantly having to hold the shi-tty end of the stick, and the closely associated question of immigration.

Our politicans may be quite happy with the continuing status quo, regarding the E.U.

The public at large are sick and fed up.

Fed up waiting for politicans to grow enough balls to tackle the problem, and address their very real concerns.

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If its undemocratic, then make it democratic, if its corrupt, then deal with the corruption. I have no more desire than you Margaret, to see a United States of Europe.But equally I don't think that this Countries interests are best served from a position of splendid isolation

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I still cannot understand why if the benefits are paid by the Government people on benefits are not made to work for the money with the Government as the employer.

Just say for instance that you have a painter & decorator out of work and living on benefits why on earth is he not out there painting the schools and the hospitals and the same goes for anyone else.

The system is a complete joke but is a way of life for some people and until someone starts to put their foot down and say enough is enough then long will it continue. :(

I work part time now after working very hard for a number of years and that is my choice but this month alone I have spent more than I earn on essential things including a visit to the dentist, new glasses for my failing eyesight and more than I care to think about on prescriptions for a newly diagnosed condition but I have learned to answer with a smile the question "Do you pay for your treatment"

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http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...l-49152-5.html

Peace, and fraternal love Comrade Pilkington.

Peace, and love.

http://snesorama.us/board/images/smilies/communist.gif

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Suprise!

We're living in it now.

With laws we must abide by, being dictated to us from Brussels.

Capital city, of the United States of Europe.

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By the way...

We went to war against Nazi Germany because they were expansionist, not 'insular'.

Talking earlier today about what's happening to us because of the European Union.

My mum, born after her dad was killed in Normandy...

'Makes you wonder if winning the war was worth it'.

No idea who she votes for, but my mum's fairly liberal in outlook, and was brought up in a strong socialist/ Methodist household.

My mum isn't isolated in her thoughts.

People are genuinely sick to their stomachs, at what's being allowed to happen to this once great democratic country.

Let's hope some politicans wise up, at least.

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Great.

Can we assume you'll be lobbying your party, so we can have an election promise there'll be a referendum on this issue, with a water-tight guarantee it will actually materialise, unlike past broken election promises we've had?

The situation's a thousand times diffferent from the last time people were allowed their democratic say in one, in 1975.

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Bernard, can you tell me how to make it democratic? How to deal with the corruption....heck the EU budgets haven't been signed off in the last 14 years.
And if we left the EU I do not see that we would be isolated.
And just because you have no desire to see a United States of Europe doesn't mean that this isn't what will happen.
At every turn the EU tries to insidiously take over things that should be decided in our own Parliament.

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Perhaps, Bernard, in an absolutly non-political way, you'd like to justify that?
If you feel it's 'undemocratic' and 'corrupt', if you don't wish to see ' a United States of Europe' then I'm struggling to see why you would vote to stay in!
If you thought your party was undemocratic and corrupt would you be happy to stay in it? I think not, I hope not.
'Splendid isolation'! Separating ourselves from an undemocratic, corrupt organisation(your words) - why not?
The top brains behind the Union could see that eventualy financial mis-matches would eventually create the need for a fiscal and political union controlled by Brussels and being fair to them they never hid their target- a United States of Europe!

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Cllr. Dawson, meet Margaret Pilkington.

The woman on the Clapham Omnibus.

She speaks for many.

The man on the Clapham omnibus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Damn! This is what comes of stopping for a pint or three on the way back from t'Stanley. I come on here to find Bernard's finally made his views known and Gary, Margaret and others have said it all!

How can you say we're not well along the road to a United States of Europe when so many of our laws and regulations are now decided by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels? How can you even imagine that such a terminally corrupt, wasteful, undemocratic behemoth can be reformed?

...and most important of all, how can you as a democrat be party to denying the British people the right to decide on these huge changes which are altering the very nature of our country? :confused:

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I think it was me(not Bernard...he was just quoting me) who said it was corrupt and undemocratic...which it is....if the electorate has no power of veto, no power to vote in the people who make the legislation....then it is undemocratic.
What is the point of having a Parliament in this country, supposedly making the laws and policies if we have to bow down to what Brussels thinks is right?

I can see no way of making it democratic, because the will is not there to do so......as for the corruption....huge organisations(which the EU undoubtedly is) are notoriously difficult to police when it comes to corruption.

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Sorry, Margaret, you're right.But Bernard didn't refute your statement, he just suggested that we change things we have no power to change. He didn't disagree with you!
Think why the EU was created- the fear of another European war- the Germans wanted to run Europe(one way or another, good for them), the French were terrified of the Germans (not without cause) and most of the others saw a gravy train they could jump on financed by us, the Germans and the French. A good basis for a trading group? Yes. For a United States of Europe? No.

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I don't think you've quite grasped this, Bernard. When people abuse the benefit system in this country, if they're caught, they're prosecuted for it because it's illegal.

The latest piece of EU madness which prompted this thread is this - millions and millions of people will be able to come into this country and immediately claim employment support allowance, pension credit, income support and other benefits even if they've never worked here or paid any contributions. This will all be perfectly legal and above board and will not be considered by the authorities as "abusing the system".

The frightening thing is that there are many others at the top of all three major parties who are just as deluded as you. :eek:

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I agree steve people should not just be able too waltz into OUR country and claim whatever benefit without contribution, they should have to be at work here for at least five years if there are any places left to work that is. The eu is indeed corrupt and a money pit costing a fortune for all the benefits:rolleyes::rolleyes: we get from it. Our European neighbours seem to pick out the best bits and ignore the bits they dont like, unlike us , we seem to be happy to be led by the short and curlys by brussels instead of standing up for ourselves, i for one am sick of it:mad:

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Seeing as the Tories have the largest representation of UK MEP's in the European Parliment..(twice as many than UK labour MEP's) I wonder why they moan and groan from Westminster but do nothing about this sort of crap within the EU?.. this lot are the laziest Government in history.

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Mancie, is that your opinion or have you got some evidence to back up that statement?
I am not being fly here,(or trying to score points...) I am just asking a question because I am interested.

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The U.K. breakdown of British M.E.P.'s gorging themselves at the E.U. feast.

BBC NEWS | European Election 2009 | UK Results

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Now you know why I ignore Mancie, he never brings anything sensible to the debate, he fails to see that the crap this country is in at the moment is down to the political system he so readily supported and endorsed for 13 years

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Er...what he said was correct.

See previous post.

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Let's face it, Bernard's been justifiably derided for his views, but the majority of politicos, Labour, Tory, and LibDems, agree with him. As for MEP's, they've got their snouts firmly in the trough, so they're not going to derail the Brussels gravy train (which shows just how ridiculous and fanciful Bernard's opinion that the EU can somehow be reformed really is).

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No it wasn't it was one way bigotry as usual, what ever else he's said I would know I only see his quoted posts and have done for months

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Well let me be your eyes.

Mancie said that the majority of British M.E.P.' s are Conservative.

He was right.

They have twice as many M.E.P.'s living the high life in Brussels as their nearest rival parties, U.K.I.P., and Labour.

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I wasn't actually questioning the figures and breakdown of the MEP's.......what I was questioning was the statement that he made about 'this lot being the laziest government ever'.
I had no doubt that he had figures to prove which party had the highest complement of MEP's.
The evidence I wanted was to prove that this government are lazy......and the criteria on which he bases this claim.
A different kettle of fish altogether.

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Maybe it is my fault....perhaps my question was a bit ambiguous.

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Sorry, can't find a laziness league table.

:D

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There comes a time when you have to ask yourself.

How many Slovakian and Romanian goat herders do we really need.:hehetable

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Yes but he then went on to again have a dig at HMG as usual

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Well since we've had a coalition government for sixteen months, and we're still being shafted by the E.U., perhaps he has a point about the government's lack of action.

Cameron was interviewed this morning on the B.B.C., saying he supports continuing membership of the E.U.

The British people overwhelmingly don't.

Each successive government are too afraid to let the people have a referendum, on what's changed from a trade alliance, which they voted for, to what by stealth it's become today, a governing of Britain from Brussels.

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Again this just demonstates the arrogance of politicians. They do not listen to the concerns of the electorate....the ones who are paying them to do a job.
I guess they reckon if they stay in the EU it will mean a lot less work for them(getting out will be harder than trying to get toothpaste back into the tube)....and if Brussels makes the rules........do we really need any MP's.

According to a newspaper this morning, Mp's are going to vote on whether to let the public have a referendum on our continuing membership of the EU.......but, and it is a big but, the results will not be legally binding on the government. So I feel that it is just a ploy to placate those of us who feel that the EU is a Frankenstein monster that will eventually do what two world wars could not.

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The bottom line is, its not that simple just to say right we're kicking the European Union into touch, far from it, I recon if it was decided that we were to pull out it would take about 20 years to totally complete the exercise, its not just a case oh well pull out next Wednesday

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John, if it took twenty years to leave at least we would not be giving Brussels any more sovereignty over our country.

Just because something is difficult it should not mean that you don't contemplate doing it......especially if the majority of the people in this country feel it is right...which won't ever be known unless we get the chance to give our views.

I have never felt any different about the EU. In 1975 I voted NO. I didn't think it was a good idea then.......I felt we were being bamboozled......that was my gut instinct.

I don't feel that it is just that faceless people in Brussels make rules that affect all parts of our lives.........and we can do burger all about it.
I don't want people who I have not elected or had any part in the election of, making rules for me......because it means we have no right of redress.
Our own politicians(useless bunch of monkeys - with a very few exceptions) have tried to ignore the growing concerns.....because any action to rectify the situation was felt to be fraught with difficulty and the longer it has gone on the worse it has become.

It really needs definitive action of someone who is brave........I don't reckon any of the incumbents fit that description....do you?

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I didn't vote for it either. The frogs have never forgiven us for saving their arses in two world wars.
De Gaule showed his true colours in 1945. Thats what comes of helping people.
And jerry for giving them a right shelacking, again in two world wars.
My thoughts at the time were they can't lick us at feighting, but they will screw us in the boardroom.
Retlaw.

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Yet another reason to leave...

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: £42m child benefit sent abroad

...and still Cameron refuses to give us a referendum. Obviously, he's far more concerned about placating his masters in Brussels, than he is about the wishes of the British people.

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Yes, this money is going towards helping growth in another country......boosting their economy instead of ours.

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Oh yes, and it should be noted that if the parent who is claiming the money for children back in the home country, once that parent returns to their homeland the benefit doesn't stop........oh dear No....it is continued to be paid. A travesty.

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I don't think I should participate in this thread any more...it is doing my blood pressure no damn good at all!

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Margaret -I am as incredulous as you at all this siphoning off of tax-payers money out of the UK -had absolutely no idea - but please don't let it make you ill...

Looks like the "Ministry of Silly Walks" has been allowed to creep in and take over. Unbelievable:eek:

"A spokesman for HM Revenue & Customs said: “Child benefit payments are in line with EU rules which have been in force for more than 30 years."
So how much has gone out over the years?

“We do not pay child benefit for children living in another EU member state until we are sure the claim is legitimate.”

Have they popping over to Poland or wherever to check they haven't been bumping up the number of offspring on the sly?

The spokesman added that most of the *payments are made directly into bank accounts in *foreign countries.
That's very nice of them -at least they don't have the hassle of making money transfers...

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i dont know the figures but it wasnt too long ago it was made public that quite a lot of immigrants were/are claiming for children abroad that dont even exist :eek:

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I can believe it -if people can fiddle benefits here it must be much easier at thousands of KM distance. A quick back-hander in the local town hall to get a certificate showing the number of family members and their DOB....

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Oh, it won't make me ill...I don't actually have a problem with my blood pressure...well not that I know of anyway. I just get really angry that people who should not be able to take money from our pockets, will be allowed to do so with ease, if the EU has its way.

Politicians have taken the line of least resistance in respect of benefits as well as the EU.
It is time there was a radical overhaul of both.

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Stop being so 'insular'.

Be more like Bernard, see the many positives.

Think more like an 'Internationalist'.

Then you'll be happy forking out all that dosh.

http://snesorama.us/board/images/smilies/communist.gif

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Bernard still hasn't explained how he would make the EU democratic...or for that matter how he would begin to deal with the corruption that exists in the EU.
No mention has been made of the fact that the EU hasn't had a budget signed off in 14 years(or it could be more).

I cannot see any positives.........maybe I should go to Specsavers.

Me happy forking out dosh????? Don't you know I am the original Yorkshire Scottish jew........the one who would cut a corran(currant) in two. :)

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Margaret's famous omelette recipe: "Borrow three eggs ..... ";)

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Well my point is that this government (along with the media) moan and whinge from the sidelines.. that is all they do.. the only matter on this lot's agenda is cuts..they and UKIP have a massive majority in the EU Parliment so why don't they do something about this sort of kak we get from the EU... they just sulk and moan..I call that lazy.

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Well Thank you for taking the time to explain what you mean. It makes more sense now.
I'm not sure how the MEP system works...but you can't really expect MEP's to take action to come out of the EU.........that is like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas.
The EU is a vast gravy train......and the MEP's are dipping their bread in it!

As for HMG over here........I am not being apologist, but they have had a lot on their plate to deal with.......and I am pretty sure that DC and NC don't really see eye to eye on lots of things so internal wrangling take up time and energy.

Maybe they just moan and whinge because they don't know what to do to get us out of the carp(intended). Like the engineers rule 'When you don't know what to do.....walk fast and look worried'.

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The petition passed the 100,000 mark some time ago and it is being pushed forward for a debate in the House of Commons, despite some resistance from the Prime Minister.

It will be interesting to hear the outcome of that one.

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Wouldn't think much will come of it, as most MPs are pro-EU, just like our resident internationalist, Bernard. It's also been said that the vote wouldn't been binding on Parliament and if there's one thing Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are all agreed on, it's the fact that they don't want the British people to have a say on this.

As you say though, Ken, it'll be quite interesting to hear some sort of debate about it.

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Talking of the gravy train Margaret, can you remember the socialist welsh firebrand leader of the Labour Party who tried twice to become the British PM. Since being rejected in 1992 he's gone on to make a nice little fortune for himself and even draughted most of his family in to help him dip his bread in that very rich gravy train, more in keeping with a Tory Toff, that Mancie is always banging on about, seems there are just as many Labour Toffs these days, our Tony hasn't done too bad for himself either;)

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Blimey, at first glance I thought you were talking about your little chum, Peter Britcliffe.

;):D

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Tory politician won't slash 43,000 expenses despite ruthless public sector cuts - mirror.co.uk

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: