Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I voted to say in the Common Market back in 75, not to be a member of a federal states of Europe

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Yes, and as pointed out, it was the first time Labour had lost a General Election since 1992.

Prior to the last Election Labour won in 2005, Tony Blair had this to say.

'Tony Blair says a referendum is to be held on the new European constitution'

'For months the prime minister has denied the need for a vote, but on Tuesday he conceded it was time to...

''Let the people have a final say.''

BBC NEWS | UK | Politics | Blair confirms EU constitution poll

A pre-election statement that we now know to be a lie. Because has soon as Labour secured their third successive victory, they reneged on giving the people the right to have their say in a referendum.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

At least there's one politican prepared to fall on his sword, and rebel against his party, because he knows it's the right thing to do.

'Stewart Jackson told the BBC: "This is a question of putting, I believe, country and constituency first and party second because in the end it's a question about whether we trust the European elite that has led us into the calamity of European governance."
BBC News - EU referendum proves battleground

Stewart Jackson, those who are sick and tired of being denied a voice, applaud you.

http://www.thebellforum.com/images/s...use_smiley.gif

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Whilst jackson is to be applauded,sadly aint enough of em wi the backbone to make a difference. imho.:(

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Sadly this is true.

Monday's vote will be a loss for democracy.

There are too many personally ambitious politicans, who'd rather attempt to climb the greasy political pole, than do what is right for the country, and the people they're paid to represent.

This vote will more than probably result in defeat...but this issue of injustice will not be going away.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Stewart Jackson put it right, country and Constituency first, Party second, that's exactly the outlook Ken Hargreaves had during his time in Parliament, he wasn't interested in any ministerial jobs, just representing the people who he grew up with and lived amongst all his life

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I'd like to ask our M.P., Graham Jones, just one, very simple question.

Since there seems to be many people, both nationwide, and locally, who think the way we are governed as fundamentally changed, and who'd like the chance to give their opinion on the matter, and their thoughts taken into consideration.

Other than to toe the party line, can you give us one good reason why not to vote that we should have a referendum on this issue?

Just one.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

?

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Seems some fell on stony ground Rindi;)

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Graham, you're a local lad so I'm amazed at this post. Surely, you must realise that this sort of puerile bull doesn't fool the canny folk of Accrington & district for one minute! :rolleyes:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Was wondering who these pro europeans are here in Hyndburn

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Who knows?...there might be thousands of 'em. There might be millions of pro-EUers across the UK. The point is, though, that there's been a fundamental change in the way this country is governed with large swathes of decision-making and power being transferred to Brussels and the British people were not consulted on this. The basic principles of democracy demand that they should be consulted via a referendum. If the result is that the majority of the British public want our membership of the EU to stay as it is, I'll accept that, because that's what democracy is all about. Unfortunately the political establishement from David Cameron to Ed Milliband to Graham Jones don't seem to have a similar belief in democracy.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I'd love Graham to tell us how many people he has had contacting him to ask him to vote against a referendum!!!....errr i'll hazard a guess at ONE!!:D

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Didn't know you were pro europe taggy;):D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Interestingly the youGov poll this week has confirmed the intricacies of a 3 part question as opposed to an in/out. I would have thought those who represent the 28% who want Britain out regardless would oppose Mondays motion based on the likelihood that it will keep Britain in Europe for the foreseeable future.

The survey supports my view that the 47% (how I would vote) see the case both ways but on balance would stay in with a renegotiation. The last IPSOS MORi had 60% of people's concerns being jobs and employment and just 5% the EU. These two seem consistent polling wise and would indicate on a triple question there is little chance of a referendum resulting in Britains withdrawal.

Express misleads on EU poll results

The front page of Saturday's Daily Express claims:



'75% say: 'Quit the EU now''. That's the way the Express has summarised a poll conducted by YouGov.

But the article by Alison Little makes clear this isn't what the poll really shows. Indeed, her first sentence says:

An overwhelming 75 per cent of Britons would vote in a referendum to quit the EU or renegotiate the terms.

The 'or renegotiate the terms' bit is important because, as the Express reveals five paragraphs from the end, if a referendum included three options about the UK's relationship with Europe:

15 per cent would vote for the status quo, 28 per cent would vote to leave the EU and 47 per cent would vote to renegotiate membership terms.*

So the '75%' saying 'quit now' actually includes 47% who don't actually want to quit if renegotiation is an option.**

The poll was conducted by YouGov for the campaign group Vote UK out of EU and their press release on these results makes clear that:

75% of those surveyed would vote to change the current relationship between the UK and the EU.

'Change the current relationship'. Not 'quit now'.

What if the referendum gave a more straightforward 'in or out' choice? The Express states:

Given a choice to stay in or get out – without the option to renegotiate – 52 per cent would quit, 31 per cent would stay in, while the rest are “don’t knows”.

According to this poll, if it's in or out, 52% say quit. If it's in, out or renegotiate, 28% say quit.

So why has the Express claimed '75% say quit now' in the headline?

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

It was one actually! 28 have written to leave for the record (the angriest letters on any issue) which is down the league table of issues by comparison. We checked on Friday and (without local prompting) the highest is 75 for the fish fight campaign with quite a few campaigns in the 60's and 50's including on Murdock, who the EU have just knocked back over tv football.

Most people are like my other half, not bothered. Be interesting to see at Rovers this afternoon how many people talk about it? She's going, I'll ask her after. If she had to vote she would go with the strongest argument on jobs primarily and as a Labour voter before we met, take into consideration/ points Labour make (which is easier than reading all the arguments both ways as a hard working mum).

On that final point removing working rights to holidays and maternity leave woud be a big factor for her. She wouldn't consider straight bananas, Eccles cakes or votes for prisoner as important enough.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Because, as I've said before, Express readers live in a parallel universe where Britain has long since left the EU, is full of pensioners enjoying bumper private sector pensions, basks in 90 degrees of heat every day of the year, and where Madeline McCann plays happily with Princess Diana.

The best thing to do is humour them, and ultimately ignore them.

;)

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Just a figure that came into my Ed Jaysay!! Lol!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Sometimes I have to shake my head at some of the content in your posts:(

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Excellent post, Graham. The poll shows that almost twice as many people want to get out as want to stay in. It’s a bit like being pregnant – you either are or you ain’t.The ‘Renegotiation’ stuff is nonsense; what exactly are we to renegotiate? Are we to renegotiate the rebate which Blair refunded? Are we to negotiate the return of our ancient fishing grounds? Are we to negotiate what opt-outs we can take on EU directives? The simple truth is its bollocks and you know it.

On Monday night you meet your nemesis. You have three choices – vote for the motion, against or abstain. If you take one of the latter two then you will be in contempt of your constituents; take the first one and your stock will rise. It’s that simple

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I would agree that not too many will be discussing a referendum vote at Ewood this afternoon Graham! They will be discussing the much more realistic claims of Steve Kean, stating Rovers are not far off course for a top ten finish!:rolleyes:

Best Regards - Taggy

PS....If the vote hadn't been brought forward a bit & the public been allowed more time to express an opinion, i think you would have been aware of more interest!

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Are you going to give a straightforward answer to this question Graham?

I'm sure your constituents would find it much more interesting than a whole load of lifted statistics.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Ya Taggy I nearly choked when I read that in the LT too:rolleyes:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Are the majority who voted on here to be ignored, and our opinions discounted, because we didn't write in to you?

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Think he's already answered that Rindi, then given a load of crap to try and vindicate the way he will vote:(

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

He's obviously drinking stronger stuff than us Jaysay!!:D

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Fair enough.

As stated earlier, I will never again give my vote to any politican, or party, who doesn't actively support a referendum on the issue of E.U. membership.

The only exception to this would be to vote tactically. To hinder those that choose to deny people their say on this issue.

No great deal.

Just one vote.

But I will do everything in my limited power to also encourage others not to support those who don't support democracy.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Groove thinks we are tied to Europe forever now unfortunately...Groove thinks a European superstate may be the only way to compete with emerging industrial nations such as China, India etc

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I missed this bit earlier on. Surely there would be no need for a 'Fish Fight' campaign if we got out the EU and restablished our territorial rights over our fishing grounds (which we would be quite entitled to do under international law), and where currently 90% of all fish are lifted by EU member states such as Spain and France? I would have thought a sustainable fishing policy after that would be simple and easy to manage.

Oh - and its Murdoch, by the way. If politicians of all persuasions had not been so eager to please this Aussie scoundrel, then there would be no need to resort to the EU courts over his ruination of English football and his corrupt monopoly on broadcasting games.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I've always posted on here that I don't always vote for one particular party.

This is true.

I once voted for Ken Livingstone in the election for Mayor of London, when he stood as an independent, after being thrown out of the Labour party.

Last year I also voted for Peter Britcliffe.

This was done because I knew his chance of re-election was 100% guaranteed, and I did it so I could post that I was voting for the best person for the job, hoping that by saying this, after also saying I was voting for Graham Jones, it might pursuade others to do the same.

Other than these two votes I've always voted Labour, ever since I was first able to, in 1983.

Never again.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

The lid on my political coffin was closed, the day this happened.

BBC News - Gordon Brown 'bigoted woman' comment caught on tape

When we witnessed just how elitist, and out of touch the ruling classes are with the ordinary, salt of the Earth folk of this country. When one woman dared to share her very real worries with the Prime Minister.

By the way, I don't think the Conservatives, and Liberal Democrats are any better.

They are all sycophantic careerists. Out to improve their own lot, rather than the good of others.

Some of my political heroes of yesteryear wouldn't recognise this shower of http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...bO5Wq6FrYB1eNf 'tight' we have in power today.

The age of political altruism is truly dead.

Today, because of the three party leaders, and our M.P.'s refusal to vote in favour of a referendum on E.U. membership, the lid of my political coffin has been firmly nailed down shut.

The way we are governed has been fundamentally altered, and we, the people, haven't had a say if we agree, or not, with this momentous change.

That, is very wrong.

I suppose I should be grateful.

Total freedom.

For although I'll remain politically motivated, I truly will have no allegiance to any mainstream political parties.

Cheers Graham.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I think i may have already told you this G, but I had the same revelation about 25 years ago....:(

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Yes, I recall you telling me of your own road to Damascus moment.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

'Mr Miliband declined to rule out the possibility of the UK adopting the euro as its currency in the future if he was prime minister.'

'He said that it would be "very, very unlikely... I don't think it's going to happen. It depends how long I am prime minister for, but I can't see it in the foreseeable future".

BBC News - Ed Miliband: Cameron brought EU vote problem on himself

So that's not a no, then.

Unbelievable.

...and sure to be another vote winner from Labour's Mr. Ed.

I'm a little too young to remember the original Mr. Ed on television.

Wasn't he a horse who talked out of his arse as well?

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Plus, we know Labour leaders lie.

As Blair and Brown did, when they pronounced there'd be a referendum over the E.U.

We'd probably be waving bye-bye to sterling before May was out.

If the populace elected that Blairownite clone into number ten.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

The Horse was more believable ;)

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I always thought that in a democracy an MP was elected to represent his electorate. Isn't it clear what the electorate of Hyndburn think about our continuing membership of the EU? I can't see where Mr. Jones' confusion lies about how to vote on the referendum issue.
Represent your electorate Jonesy, it's simple!

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

This isn't even about the pros and cons of E.U. membership.

The imminent vote is to allow people a say, because how we are now governed as fundamentally changed.

For most it's a no brainer.

Which you can take anyway you like.

Fine line.

The risk.

National political ambition versus constituent suicide.

Anyway, nearly time for Strictly.

Best go.

Before we're all accused of bullying.

Instead of speaking our mind, in the vain hope democracy might be seen to be done tomorrow.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Never really thought of it as Biblical - will have to reflect...:rolleyes:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Biblical in that it was epic.

Stanley Kubrick would have filmed it.

Letter to Brezhnev meets Spartacus.

http://snesorama.us/board/images/smilies/communist.gif

:rolleyes:

Much more exciting, than my own tedious, and gradual disillusionment.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

http://www.politicshome.com/timthumb...ress241011.png

Graham, you say you agree with renegotiating powers, well that's an option in tomorrow's proposal. Come on, vote for it.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

'Nearly three-quarters of all voters want their MP to vote according to his or her personal view, and not slavishly follow Cameron's or Miliband's whips.'

75 per cent Britons want nation to quit EU membership: Poll - Economic Times

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Do we take the fact that this question hasn't been answered, that there isn't one good reason why the people shouldn't be allowed a referendum?

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Mr Ed is forcing labour MP's to vote as he says or face disciplinary action.Socialism at It's best.

R.I.P. Democracy.:mad::mad:Did we really fight 2 world wars for our freedom??

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I had to smile this morning watching Breakfast TV, a Tory back bench MP stated that every one of his constituents who contacted him regarding Europe wanted him to vote for a referendum, whilst a Government minister said that traveling round constituencies people are not interested in Europe and think its a side issue, people want the government to sort out problems at home, well somebodies telling porky pies and I don't think its the back bench MP;)

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Well Graham you do not deserve the respect that your predecessor had. I have never voted Labour and never will, but I always had time and respect for Greg Pope, he stood his ground and did not cave in.
Sad to see that Graham cannot do that, puts him in the same boat as all the others really.
I wonder if Karen Buckley, remember her, would have done anything differently.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

No one's holding a gun to anyone's head.

We were lucky last time. With Greg Pope being at least prepared to rebel against his party, because he knew it was the right thing to do for his constituents.

It looks like there won't be one Labour rebel.

Utterly shameful.

As stated earlier, careerist politicans.

More intent on climbling the slippery pole to power and 'glory', than doing what is right for democracy.

Pathetic.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Could not agree more.
So taking it that this will be rejected, how long will it be before the same or similar petition is posted again.
I for one will happily sign it.
After all politicians are there to run the country on our behalf. Something some of them should remember.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I honestly can't get my head around the fact that Graham thinks a referendum would be so close, if the straw pole on here is anything to go by

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Three polls actually.

Held over seven years, and all saying the same thing.

That's not even the point.

The arguments, for and against, could come later.

The fact is politicans at Westminster are too afraid to even let the people have their say, on whether or not they want E.U. membership.

Something they've neither been asked, or voted for...ever.

If anyone from the Labour party even attempts to post an election pamphlet through my door anytime soon, be warned.

It'll be rolled up, and given back to you.

Rammed where the sun don't shine.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Perhaps someone should start a poll, asking how well represented we feel we are, by our representative at Westminster.

I'm not doing it.

I'm all polled out.

Plus I already know what the poll results would show us.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I've just had a look at the parliament website to check on todays order of business. The referendum debate begins at 3.30, so I'm having an early afternoon off and will be warching the debate live on the BBC Parliament channel (81, freeview - I don't know about the others).

But just as a matter of interest, the front page of the Commons website makes quite clear as to what is the job of an MP. It reads as follows:

The UK public elects 650 Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and propose new laws, and can scrutinise government policies by asking ministers questions about current issues either in the Commons Chamber or in Committees

It seems to me that any MP, therefore who is not representing their interests and concerns is not actually doing his or her job is quite simply taking their substancial salary under false pretences - which, under certain circumstances, is a criminal act.

Here is the Parliament link:

House of Commons - UK Parliament

I'm heading off home now....I think I'll pick up a couple of bottles of claret on the way. I'm looking forward to fireworks.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

:confused:

In which ways did Greg Pope stand his ground and not cave in ?

Can you recall his voting against the government when he was a whip ?

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Well T I don't think you will be hearing from Graham, as I'm nearly sure that being a whip may not allow him to speak on an issue carrying a three line whip, but I could be wrong:confused:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Ok ... this is a vote on whether or not to hold a referendum .... it isn't a vote on whether or not to leave the EU. I'm suspicious that the politicians are afraid of the referendum because they know that the result could go the wrong way .... "wrong" for them, and "right" for the British people and for democracy. The movement for a referendum is actually getting news coverage over here:eek: ...

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

'The revolt was led by Frank Field, the former Welfare Reform minister, and Greg Pope, a former Labour whip.'
Labour fends off fresh rebellion over 10p tax - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

He was publicly prepared to rebel, citing it would harm a many of his constituents, over the moves to abolish the 10p rate of income tax.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I beg to differ. Pope only rebelled because he had already made the decision not to stand for election in 2010.
What's the odds Jonesy will fail to represent the people who voted him in and yield to Mr. Ed's whip?

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Graham has certainly gone down in my estimation. but would Greg Pope have done any differently? Back in the day, when the Labour government promised us a referendum on the European Constitution, they slid out of it by claiming that the Lisbon Treaty which replaced it was radically different so the referendum wasn't necessary. In fact, it was a very similar document with a new name and a few rearranged words. I distinctly recall Greg Pope coming on here and insulting our intelligence by toeing the party line.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Admittedly it was a bit of a Jack Straw, but at least he did it.

Perhaps if Graham announces he's not standing at the next General Election, we'll see him favour the people who elected him, rather than his political masters.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

You're right.

It needs a certain type of person nowadays, to be a sucessful politican.

Not a life for me.

I couldn't lick arse, and be made to do things I didn't believe to be right.

No matter how much they paid me.

I would vote to get out of the EU. My reasons:
we pay £43m per day to the European Union and get the almost nothing out.

Why should the European Union make up our laws?

We have no physical connection to Europe except the Eurostar to places such as Paris and Brussels.

Another bugbear is we're not even allowed to fish in our own waters but the Spanish can. I would repeal the fishing quota laws so we can fish in our own waters.

Also immigration: if a EU citzen commits a crime in our country, they will extradited back to their country and they would serve their sentence in their country at their expense. I would stop economic migrants coming into to our country just to take advantage of our welfare system. They must have employment before they would be granted a visa.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Tapatalk

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

The more I read about what is happening to the UK because of the EU, the more I find it difficult to understand how your governments over the years allowed the country to slide into it:confused: That fishing thing sounds like BS ... I guess Fleetwood is no longer a major fishing port. The Spanish try to fish in Canadian waters too; the Navy, or the Coastgaurd and the RCMP arrest them, confiscate their vessel, and fine them. And this stuff with the immigrants coming over for no reason other than to take advantage of welfare .....

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Plus, imagine to the shame, if you were subject to laws issued..from Washington D.C..

...and yes, Fleetwood is no longer the great fishing port.

They make only make mints now.

For other nation's fishermen to suck.

Whilst plundering our seas.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Ya can always get a nice piece of fish in Spain;)

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

The question that I still can't get my head round is - "What does "withdrawing from the European Union" means exactly?"

Listening to some of the debate, it seems that all we have to do is give a months notice to Brussels, thanking them for working with us for the last 40 years, but expressing the view that we feel the way ahead is for us to go it alone. A bit like a resignation letter to your employer.

But hold on a minute. What compensation clauses would be triggered? What do we do with the millions of European immigrants, some now second and third generation, who have settled in the UK? How do we deal with the millions of UK expats who settled abroad, and who will presumably have to be repatriated. Do we claim back the money we've paid to Brussels? Do we tear up the contracts that commit us to future payments, future obligations? etc etc etc

These are just the start of the list of questions that our withdrawal would raise. I don't know the answers, and neither I suspect do the people calling for our withdrawal.

But they are questions that will have to be answered so that the great British public goes into any referendum with complete knowledge of all the facts.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Debates are now rendered pointless, because the public have had their opinions discounted, because of last night's vote in parliament.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Cameron can't ignore the scale of the Tory revolt last night. In that sense the public opinion has been expressed, even if it hasn't yet resulted in a referendum.

A bandwagon is now rolling that will swamp anyone who thinks the current EU arrangements can be solved by tinkering round the edges. Either we get out or we make sure fundamental changes are made.

The public voice will be heard!

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Exactly! These and many more questions and issues could have been thoroughly discussed in the run-up to any referendum (which, as the MP who proposed the referendum has said, would probably have taken us through to 2013).

However, this won't happen now, because the majority of MPs don't want us to have a say.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I agree.

Though most political pundits are saying the probabilty is this can't now happen before 2015.

Over three more years, in which the British people are denied a voice.

Which was probably caught in UK waters!



Sent from my GT-P1010 using Tapatalk

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Keeps the sonsabitches away from Canada:D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Don't think probably comes into the equation phil

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

There is a new petition, I have signed it.
Seems to be growing in popularity.
https://submissions.epetitions.direc...etitions/20133

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

On reflection.

After contemplating all the valid arguments that have been posted, as to why we shouldn't be allowed a referendum.

I've decided to sign it too.

:rolleyes::D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I've signed it too

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Beni's seal of approval has been added also.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Oh yes it is signed

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Well the ePetition has doubled in numbers since I signed it this afternoon, we might yet have a chance,

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Seems the Greek P.M.s called a referendum on the E.U. bail out, yeh thats it a referendum.............summat none of these gutless gits will give the british public.:rolleyes:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Maybe all it will take is a bit of rioting in the streets;) Pity that the only way to make politicians listen is to grab them by the gurglers and shake the shlt out of them:alright:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Well that's where democracy was born.

Even if they've spent the intervening couple of millenia fighting each other, losing their marbles, and having coups.

The lucky beggars!

Being allowed a vote. On their own future, in a referendum!

The Greeks must still have a bit of respect for their politicans.

Unlike here.

Even if they did lead them all up shish kebab creek, without a paddle.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Just googled "Gurglers" Eric -presume you're an expert at tying them and know how to shake them about;):D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

From interviews I've seen on TV I think they are as well thought of over there as they are here - or to be honest are more loathed by the average Greek.
They've reached destination - the rest of us are still paddling in the same direction up that Creek.:rolleyes:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Yes, we've been shafted for so long, we'd nearly forgot they were still at it.

We didn't tell 'em to sod off, till we found out that whilst they were rutting away they also had their hands in our purses, taking out loads of 'expenses' for porn movies etc.

Though they didn't want to tell us they had their sticky fingers in there...for security worries.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

I see the Greek government are giving the people a referendum on whether they should except the EU bail out, if they vote against this everything will go belly up, it really is time to rethink our membership of this failing organisation, who ever thought a joining together of so many separate countries would ever work is totally deluded, it takes enough effort to run one country, never mind bumping 27 together and trying to make that work

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Heed Bernard, Cllr. Dawson's advice.

To see all the many benefits, instead of any negatives, think more like an 'Internationalist'.

If you still don't see all the positives of E.U. membership, ask an Estonian, Georgian, Ukranian, Armenian, or perhaps a Lithuanian, about the many advantages of being part of a centrally governed super state.

http://snesorama.us/board/images/smilies/communist.gif

Up the revolution!

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Thinking about it, old Adolf must have been one of Bernard's 'Internationalists'.

He wanted to do away with borders, and have many different nationalities living happily together as one state, but governed from a bunker, on the outskirts of Berlin.

:rolleyes:

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

The EU 'bailout' was doomed to failure anyway because the 'bail out fund' depended on China 'lending', and the indications are that their answer is NO.
China warns it cannot 'cure' eurozone's debt crisis - Telegraph

So all that hoo hah last week was a postponement of the inevitable.

It is looking ever more likely that we won't need a referendum because there won't be EU to opt out of :D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Is it a coincidence that the other chap that wanted to rule Europe was French (OK so he was born in Corsica) - so now they join forces and try to do what neither of them could do on their own.:rolleyes:;):D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Isn't it ironic that David Cameron, when asked about converting the Brits to Berlin time, said he would have to ask what the Scots thought....and that he wouldn't do anything so radical without first getting all the people of Britain to have their say.

Yet he is quite happy to keep us in an organisation that is sinking fast.......and expecting us to pay for the life belts.

He would be the one boarding the Titanic as it went down

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Yes, I'm afraid it's curtains, for us poor sods in steerage, as we wave off our betters in their lifeboats.

There they go. Cameron, Clegg, Miliband...and Jones.

The chosen few, the elite, who will be rescued by R.M.S. Europa.

Nearer My God To Thee - YouTube

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

In Canada, we have a saying: "Up shlt creek without a paddle". Is that the creek you are talking about?:D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Think the Canadians pinched that saying off us eric.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Let's just agree to share:D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

only if its a 3 line whip.:D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Nah ... a referendum .... only option;)

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

you getting kinky?:D:D:D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Interestingly, or otherwise, I recall from a biography of Kaiser Wilhelm II, which I read some time ago, that he was an eager proponent of the idea of a federal europe long before Hitler latched on to the idea. Indeed he sent Hitler quite a few congratulatory telegrams praising his actions in pursuing the ideal. I am with the late Queen Mother on this; "Never trust the Germans". Perceptive old bird, the Queen Mum.

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

She was probably whispering that under her breath when taking her wedding vows...as she married one.

:D

Re: How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?
 

Why ya thinking of joining in ducky:thankya: