Accrington Web - Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

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garinda

15-10-2011 13:42

Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Since Cllr. Moss kindly brought the matter to our attention in another thread, when H.B.C. consulted the 'Hyndburn Black & Ethnic Minority Forum' over a recent proposal to relocate an advice centre.

I think it would be interesting to gauge public, rather than political reaction on this issue.

As an example of how tax payers' money is being used to fund organisations who practice positive discrimination, we have the Lancashire Wide Network for Minority Women. An organisation based in Accrington, and funded by Lancashire County Council.

Lancashire Wide Network for Minority Ethnic Women

In their newsletter they openly state on page eight that courses are only available to 'B.M.E. (Black & Minority Ethnic) ladies only'.

http://www.lwnmew.org.uk/minority_et...n/issue_79.pdf

So, the poll question is...

Should tax payers' money be used to fund organisations that 'promote positive discrimination', and aren't accessible to all?

The poll vote shall be secret.

Ken Moss

15-10-2011 13:52

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

I'll openly say no to council-backed resources, and the example you gave where a facility is ONLY available for people of a certain gender or ethic background should not be allowed.

The Scaitcliffe Centre, as discussed in another thread, is open to all.

jaysay

15-10-2011 13:53

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

That's a very interesting question Rindi, we are often told that we have to accept other cultures as we are now a multicultural society, although its not as you'd notice, how many organisation have racial connotation with them i.e. Black and Asian Police officers association, if there were to be a "White" police officers association all hell would break loose on the front page of the Guardian and Independent;)

Another thing which gets my goat is the fact administrations like HBC have to produce leaflets in I don't know how many languages, if I decide to go and live in Spain (another member of the EU) do I get leaflets, written in English, telling me the things I want to know. do I heck as like, I would have to pay for an interpreter to help me out, and if I couldn't afford one, tough ;)

garinda

15-10-2011 14:11

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 940140)

The Scaitcliffe Centre, as discussed in another thread, is open to all.

No one's saying otherwise.

It's only relevant because, as it says in the council's offical download on the proposal, H.B.C. 'consulted the Hyndburn BME (Black & Minority Ethnic) Forum', who 'offered the proposal it's full support'.

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...e_Services.pdf

No mention is given of any other organisations being consulted on this proposal, or if there was any other support from any other community groups.

garinda

15-10-2011 14:14

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Anyway, that's really not what this poll is about.

It's about the tax payer funding organisations who practice positive discrimination, and whether that's right, or wrong.

flashy

15-10-2011 14:40

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

no !!!

accyman

15-10-2011 14:42

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashy (Post 940150)

no !!!

sorry could you be a little more clear please your answer seems a little vague :D

flashy

15-10-2011 14:44

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

well.....you know i don't like to be noticed ;)

mobertol

15-10-2011 15:13

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

As a woman living in a country that is not my country of origin i am effectively in a minority, but i get no special treatment here. No language courses, coffee mornings, help in finding work or building my confidence. From what I can see of the Lancs. network for Ethnic Minority Women -most of the courses and activities they offer would be of interest to anyone indescriminately.

Free computer courses would be welcomed by all people of all ages I imagine -and as they have LCC funding they should be available to all residents of the county... the same applies to all the other courses and activities on offer.

I've been living outside the UK for nearly 25 yrs now and what i don't get is the way you have to use positive discrimination over there nowadays, in order to show that you are not discriminating against someone. It's a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

People do like to be lumped together in groups for some reason (safety in numbers?) -but at the end of the day we are all individuals and are all citizens wherever we live. I don't expect to be treated differently to anyone else, and treat all those who cross my path in the same way - that is the basis of non-discriminatory behaviour -it's not that hard to achieve.

Margaret Pilkington

15-10-2011 17:48

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 940170)

From what I can see of the Lancs. network for Ethnic Minority Women -most of the courses and activities they offer would be of interest to anyone indescriminately.

There would probably be nothing at all to stop you turning up at one of these events, but you might find that it was presented in a language other than English.

Maybe it would be a very good idea to offer these activities to ethnic minority women.......and present them in English. It would be a way of getting these women to learn the language, and have other local women there so that a degree of integration might be effected too.
A change of name would be in order ......Lancashire Women's Network sounds just fine to me.

Taggy

15-10-2011 18:02

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Nope!

Best Regards - Taggy

Neil	15-10-2011 21:01

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 940206)

......A change of name would be in order ......Lancashire Women's Network sounds just fine to me.

Is that not sexist :rolleyes::D

Margaret Pilkington

15-10-2011 21:09

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

well, Neil....it definitely isn't racist:D

It was referring to women's activities, so I guess if you like needlework, crochet, cooking, making macrame plantpot holders, you could be designated an 'honorary woman' just so that you could be included.

I don't much like the sound of Lancashire People's Network, it sounds like the little brother to Chairman Mao's set up!

Neil	15-10-2011 22:44

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

I am very in touch with my feminine side, I cry at sad films and all that stuff :D

jedimaster

16-10-2011 06:11

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

my feelings on this are very simple, any government/council funded activities or resources should be available to ALL members of the community regardless of age,creed,coulour or sex. During these times of troubles and struggles everyone is in need of help in some way and no single group needs it more or less than any other.Funding should therefore be used wisely and according to the needs of the WHOLE community.

Eric	16-10-2011 07:07

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

"Positive discrimination":confused: Sounds a little oxy-moronic. And also, in a society which is, or claims to be, non-discriminatory, a tad redundant.:rolleyes: If there were obvious systemic imbalances, ok; or maybe a one-time start up grant for an organization which would then raise its own funds, maybe. But, it ain't my money, so ..... :D

g jones

16-10-2011 08:08

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

The answer should be No. Just thinking latterly about all spending which is by definition money taken from one place and prioritised in another. Everything is some form of positive discrimination. Elderly, women, children.

It is an irreducible question. What the question is asking is should we divide people by age, yes. By disability absoluetly. By gender, occasionall. By race, very rarely (translation services for courts?).

garinda

16-10-2011 08:46

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Having council funded events, such as those seen in the news letter in the first post, which are advertised as being exclusively for 'B.M.E. ladies only' is utterly, 100% wrong.

Morally wrong, and since we have race discrimination laws in this country, lawfully wrong.

Even culturally it doesn't make sense.

At those events there'd be a welcome for a young bride recently arrived from Pakistan, a Chinese British born lesbian, a evangelical Nigerian woman.

But a retired lollipop lady, who happened to be white, would be turned away, because the events are for 'Black & Mixed Ethnic ladies only'.

It's wrong. Period.

Besides it doesn't work, because it causes, and perpetuates a divisive society.

I agree with what Eric hinted at. If there was a group of people, who were disadvantaged because they weren't equal before the law, there could be an argument that there was a need for minority groups to be funded by the state, in order to fight for equality.

Since we have anti-discrimination laws in place in the U.K. to prevent prejudice based on age, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity. There is no conceivable argument that tax payers' money should be spent funding any organisation that openly discriminates against any other group.

Everyone should be treated equally and fairly.

That is the only way we'll have a society where there's cohesion, rather than division.

Integration.

Not separation.

Margaret Pilkington

16-10-2011 09:23

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 940242)

I am very in touch with my feminine side, I cry at sad films and all that stuff :D

I'll lend you a dress and some nail polish then....shall I ??? :D

jaysay

16-10-2011 09:25

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 940260)

There are a lot of people making a lot of money working as translators in this country, not only for court purposes, but in any walk of life, in other countries the individual pays for this service themselves, why does the state provide it in this country

Margaret Pilkington

16-10-2011 09:37

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Simple Jaysay, because we are mugs..........do we really think that providing translators is the way to get different communities to integrate into society?
No, it does just the opposite....it allows the ethnic cultures to remain separatist, because they have no need to learn the language.....and therefore they do not integrate.

Many translated documents are not read anyway by those for whom they were intended.......they cannot read.....and in some instances the dialects of their villages are different from what is published in the document.
Millions of pounds of NHS money is wasted every year on printing literature which is very little used.

It is all just 'window dressing' to pretend we are including the different ethnicities.
These cultures don't really want to be included. They want to retain their own little enclaves in the towns and cities of our country.

jaysay

16-10-2011 09:38

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 940261)

The trouble with this country is, that for many years we have been expected to jump through hoops to accommodate the needs of people moving to these shores, at the expense of things which affect the fabric of our society, things like renaming Christmas so not to offend other religions, the trouble being that usually these other religions weren't complaining it was the do gooders second guessing what these people "MIGHT" be thinking. We have been continually told we are a multicultural society, yet it was the indigenous population who were expected to change to accommodate others. If people from this country move abroad are other nations expected to change to accommodate our needs not a snowball in hells chance, so why does it happen here:mad:

accyman

16-10-2011 12:39

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

hell i dont think we should even put other languaqges on literature or sign posts.

how many generations have to pass before this is no longer needed its not as though they arnt taught english in school.

i could understand the first lot needing some assitance but surely now theres 3rd possibly 4th generations here they can help their newly immigrated family with translating literature.

Do we bend over backwards to help immigrants until the back breaks ?

Margaret Pilkington

16-10-2011 13:39

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 940314)

Do we bend over backwards to help immigrants until the back breaks ?

Thay was a rhetorical question wasn't it?

I think everyone knows the answer to that one.

lancsdave

16-10-2011 14:35

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 940274)

so why does it happen here:mad:

The answer to that is probably the easiest one of the lot,VOTES ;)

accyman

16-10-2011 17:10

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 940328)

The answer to that is probably the easiest one of the lot,VOTES ;)

jack straw used to take every opportunity he could to be seen to be helping the so called minority group in blackburn and it wasnt until the end of his time there that he started bleeting on about how the burkah was wrong.As soon as he was in europe he soon spoke up with a few opinions that wouldnt have got him votes in blackburn.

so yes i can see how a lot of help is dished out to ensure votes come next election

jaysay

16-10-2011 17:29

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 940328)

The answer to that is probably the easiest one of the lot,VOTES ;)

I don't actually think it is Dave I think it does deeper than that

Eric	16-10-2011 20:43

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 940260)

This is pure jargon, right ... you seem to be ignoring the question, distancing yourself behind complexity so that even "The answer should be No" is ambiguous. Sometimes it's easier for politicians to discuss language, creating a sort of metadialogue (or, often, metamonologue) which pushes into the background the thing being discussed.:rolleyes:

Margaret Pilkington

16-10-2011 20:58

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

It is 'splinter in the bum time'...giving an answer without giving an answer.....is that obfuscation?

garinda

16-10-2011 21:15

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 940378)

...and though the post made reference to public spending on the 'elderly, women, and children', Graham totally misses the point.

Those three groups are universal.

Except for 'women'. Which applies to just over half of the population.

We were ALL children.

Hopefully, we'll ALL be old.

We will NOT all be 'black, or minority ethnic'.

That's why it is WRONG these organisations should receive funding from the tax payer, to carry on their discriminatory practices. As they openly state they are doing.

Any M.P. worth his salt, on finding out a local, publicly funded organisation is guilty of such blatant discrimination and prejudice, wouldn't be umming and ahing, and bothering about puerile semantics. They'd be finding out just who the bloody hell is responsible for this, and if the organisation continues promoting discrimination, withdraw all public funding, and make sure they're closed down.

Yet again, another example of the public clearly being able to see something is very wrong.

Whilst our politicans can't.

Eric	16-10-2011 21:23

Re: Should taxes fund positive discrimination?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 940382)

It is 'splinter in the bum time'...giving an answer without giving an answer.....is that obfuscation?

I eschew obfuscation;):D

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