Young people today
 

What opinions do other forum users have of the young people of today?
Are they the stereotype foul mouth yobs or are they a much maligned group?
In the course of my employment,I encounter many teenaged people;most are foul mouthed and have no respect for property or other people.
They spit swear and fight and that's only the females.
Has authority collapsed? (school,police and parents)
Have things really deterioated,or were the Teddy Boy,Mods and Rockers/Skinheads eras just as bad?

Re: Young people today
 

I have experience of trying to teach 11 year olds and I certainly wouldn't like to do it on a full-time basis. I wouldn't have dared to give cheek the way they do these days. I often feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.

As has been stated previously on this forum/message board those of us whose schooling was presided over by Mabel B Horne wouldn't have dared answer her back. The very threat of being sent to see her was enough to make us quake at the knees. There may have been a fair bit of bravado behind her back but none of it to her face.

I think authority collapsed when it was no longer permissable to punish children. At one time a cuff round the ear from a Bobby on the beat was all it took to deter a would be delinquent but now of course the policeman would be charged with assault.

Try to defend yourself and suddenly you become the assailant.

I do believe a large majority of young people today have no respect for anyone. That doesn't mean they are all the same. I have come across some very polite and helpful young people and hopefully I try to bring my own children up to behave in a manner I consider correct and desirable. Unfortunately it isn't easy. It isn't helped either when teachers no longer command the authority they once did.

I don't see that there's an answer to it and I dread to think what that means for the future. Will it get worse? I sincerely hope not.

Re: Young people today
 

Re: Young people today
 

I really think it is unfair to lump them all together as if they are all exactly the same. As Willow intimates, there are plenty of polite, hard working, good citizens which are part of today's 'young people'. I consider that the 'yobs' are a minority. Unfortunately, I think it is a fast growing minority and may not remain a minority for much longer. It is also unfair to put the whole of the blame on the young people themselves for this state of affairs, although, I do believe the older ones share some responsibility. The majority of blame has to be shouldered by parents. They have neglected to discipline their offsprings when required, and I do not necessarily mean corporal punishment, a whole new thread could be devoted to that. But, discipline, of whatever sort, is what has been missing. I believe the most important lesson schools could introduce, in the last couple of years pupils are in attendance, would be 'parenting'. I think in the past, we learned from our parents. What we thought they did right; we copied, what we thought they did wrong; we omitted. Why this learning process hasn't continued I am at a loss to understand, but it has obviously gone awry somewhere along the line. Parents do not seem to want to take responsibility for their children these days. How often do you see kids of all ages behaving badly when accompanied by adults? Too often I think. The "free spirited" thinking, like 'political correctness' has been taken too far. As I have said before, the problem seems to be much worse in Europe than it is here in America. Government here does seem to be encouraging parents to be more involved in their children's lives. There are many adverts on television to this end. eg. Sometimes at 10 pm an advert comes on, "It's ten o'clock. Do you know where your kids are?" Other ones show parent and teenager having a silent meal, or silently travelling in the car. The overvoice says, "Another opportunity missed to talk to your kids about drugs." Another one says: "Talk to your kids about not smoking and drinking - they'll listen"

Of course, we all know that not every kid is going to take advice from their parents, but if half of them did, think how much better things could be.

Re: Young people today
 

Co-incidentally my cousin in California just sent me an email. Here is a copy of part of a quotation included in it.

Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem. And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't spank them anymore...

------------------

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued. And we accepted their reasoning...

------------------

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said, that's a grand idea...

------------------

Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said, that's another great idea...

------------------

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President, does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good...

------------------

And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet.And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

------------------

And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead...

------------------

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

------------------

Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

Re: Young people today
 

Of course he would.. and quite rightly so. A policeman or anyone else for that matter has no right to hit any child.. Full stop.. I am suprised anyone in todays society would advocate hitting children :(

Re: Young people today
 

I can make the distinction between an abusive attack on a child and the sort of thing I mean by a clip round the ear - it wouldn't bruise or leave a mark.

If anyone physically brutally attacked a child or an adult then yes they should be done for assault but we now have worse problems caused by lack of discipline since things like the ruler on the knuckles was banned from schools.

Do you think society is better off for it?

Re: Young people today
 

You may want to re read and retract the above statement.. I am pretty sure you didnt mean to say its OK to hit kids so long as you dont leave a mark....


OMG and your second sentance is again advocating the hitting of children.... sigh.... :(

Re: Young people today
 

Down here, nobody bothers hitting kids....the kids are to busy, anyway, sticking knives in each other.

Re: Young people today
 

The more you have the more you want. I think a lot of kids now get spoilt, they seen to be bored all the time and have no understanding about how to respect other people. Having said that not all kids are like that and get tard with the same brush. It's an old saying but it realy is down to the parents.

Re: Young people today
 

I'm saying there is a distinction between child abuse and the sort of minor smacking which until recently was considered normal.

A small child reaches out his or her hand towards a flame and the parent sharply taps the hand - it's an instinctive reaction in many cases. What is best? What else are they supposed to do? Let the child burn his or her hand whilst endeavouring to explain that it's not a good idea to touch fire? Would that be considered neglect?

Can a parent these days ever do right for doing wrong? How can you reasonably explain the danger anyway to a child too young to understand? If you even grab the hand and pull it away that could be classed as a physical assault. I honestly think things are more than a little out of proportion.

I don't smack my children. I don't have to. The mere fact that they know I'd like to if they warranted it is enough.

When I was at Junior school we had a teacher who used the ruler - once you'd experienced it you ddin't want the same experience again. It acted as a deterrant. We don't seem to have deterrants any more but we do have the situation which inspired this thread.

I've seen teachers attacked by children and unable to do anything about it. I've seen a teacher with a bleeding nose and split lip. I've seen a child hurl furniture across the room at a teacher and other children - the teacher is not allowed to do anything about it. These children know they are in control.

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I am against hitting children full stop! .. your so obviously for hitting children.. perhaps we should leave it at that and just pray you or anyone else who thinks like you are never left anywhere near my children:(

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I wouldn't hit them Kipax because it's against the law to do so.

But please do tell me how you think we should solve the problem of the violent yobs who have learned that it's OK for them to behave violently because no-one is allowed to do anything to stop them. Too many children are hurt more by other children who lack discipline.

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The teachers today are better than the ones I had. I know two teachers and yhey are cool. They like kids for a start! some that I had at school hated us and were nutters.

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I'm a teen i'm not cheeky,i don't answer bck 2 teachers and i'm hard workin and always do hwk and class work. so i don't think its fair 2 say we all are lioke that

Re: Young people today
 

It is impossible to lump all teenagers into one dysfunctional group. Some teenagers are well behaved and polite while others are nothing short of behaviourally challenged little gits. There may be many reasons for teenage behaviour some of them hormonal and a normal part of growing up, other reasons social, poor parenting, education and disciplinary factors. Been looking into Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (formerly Foetal Alcohol Syndrome) The USA are spending a lot of time and money researching this disorder as it can cause learning difficulties, Dyspraxias, ADHD, antisocial behavior and personality disorders. Our local group 'FASawareUK' are fully supporting the USA research and have been calling for more research in this country. One of FASaware's speakers who lectured our group at Uni last week reckoned that a lot of teenage antisocial and violent behaviour was probably due to alcohol consumption by the mothers in pregnancy. It doesn't have to be a lot of alcohol, just one beer or glass of wine at a crucial stage of foetal development. This is what one New Zealand doctor had to say....
"Dr Kitson says a new term, Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD), has emerged to describe the full spectrum of effects of alcohol on foetal development. Characteristic problems include poor judgement and impulse control, an inability to foresee consequences and to learn from previous experience, inappropriate or immature behaviour and speech, language and other communication problems. Behavioural changes may also present as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder."
Sounds like lots of teenagers I know....;) Whether there is any credibility to the US research about this topic, I don't yet know. My mate is doing this as a project so I'll let you know what she comes up with (if you are interested) I myself will be looking at good old heroin detox and the effects of subutex on the detox process (can't wait!!!)

Re: Young people today
 

So, that's possibly the cause of it - now how do we remedy it?

And yes I think I said earlier that I know well-behaved young people as well as the horror stories.

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Hear hear...im a 15 year old, but im not a yob! Yeah, there are some teenagers who are yobs, but there are also adults who are just as bad...

Re: Young people today
 

I think Sophi and Princesshales, if you read the thread through, most of the contributors have stated that not all young people are yobs and that many are helpful and useful members of society. How about telling us why you think we have a yob problem. You must know some people of your age who behave antisocially. What do you think the reason(s) for this is? Do you have any ideas on what we, as a community, can do to persuade some of these yobs to behave better?

Re: Young people today
 

I agree Sophi, but you have an interest in life, a goal to work towards and I hope one day to see you playing on the professional circuits. A lot of teenagers don't have the same direction in life and encouragement that you have.:)
At the moment, my best friend's 14 year old son is neither a yob nor a shining star, most of the time he's this thing who vegetates on the sofa and grunts at you when he's hungry. Hopefully like most teenagers, when he's decided what he wants to do with his life, he'll get off his jacksy and become a productive person (with any luck):D

Re: Young people today
 

You cant tar all kids with the same brush.
Like everything else there are good and bad.
I have met some foul teenagers and some with better manners than a lot of older people.
Some elderly people I have come across have been the rudest,ignorant people that should know better.

Re: Young people today
 

Anne you certainly have got it right! It sounds like some people on here have a real downer on young people, even those that work with them? There would be an out cry if the same conversation was about muslims or negros etc. AND RIGHTLY SO. But it just goes to show that you cant discriminate by age nor race, sex or religion. There are good and bad in all and its time people started to think that way.

Re: Young people today
 

hmm interesting, though since im still a "teenager" i better do what im supposed to

uhh Gmmm urg guah

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so letties never been young and never enjoyed life and is confused why ppl would respond like that...i guess i should respond in a "teenager-like" fashion urgh

Re: Young people today
 

WOW! This is a thread that could go on and on!! I have read what has so far been said..........and deduce that most is a load of PC C**p!


I am 52 years old, I remember my dad having a german leather belt which would be used if necessary across my posterior if I REALLY got out of hand! The headmaster at my junior school who had a "trainer" (plimsoll) in view on top of the cupboard as a warning that if we over-stepped the mark!.....

Neither was used,but the thought of being punished in front of my mates was enough to stop me from over-stepping the mark and doing something illegal!

When I stop to consider, It wasn't so much the threat of punishment that made me a "goody, goody!" but being disrespectful to my parents and bringing them down in the eyes of the local villagers!

Both my parents are dead now, they used to smack me if I done wrong, Threaten me with the strap if I broke a law , I THANK THEM! for giving me respect for others and their property!!

I DO NOT "hit kids" but in the past have "chastised" them with a calculated "smack," the end result is that I have 4 daughters (soon to be six, but that is another story lol) that totally respect the law of the land and respect the privacy of others!

I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT THEY WOULD NOT BREAK THE LAW BECAUSE THEY RESPECT THEIR FAMILY, AND LIFE TOO MUCH!

My kids were the last of a generation that respected the rights of parents and the rights of others and I hope that their children will carry these thoughts with them. It is unlikely because children are becoming the "untouchables" and soon know their "rights" to sue their parents as well as becoming "untouchable" to the police because of their age!

Sorry John W, but this lifestyle came from the U.S.A, Maybe you are sheltered from the lifestyle of the average American, but what the Americans do now, the Brits follow.............

Re: Young people today
 

I read this thread with great interest. What started as a simple statement about young people - good or bad, seems to have gone into a "You versus Us" match.

THIS IS NOT A LECTURE

Keep it simple. There are currently a lot of ingnorant and bad people...Young and old alike. On the other hand there are considerate and good people...young and old alike. I think that is a true statement.

From the postings on this thread I can immediately see words that paraphrase the Populist Press and Media, and do not exhibit "own thinking" and most of them unfortunately seem to come from the younger element. This worries me, as I have just said, there are good and bad everywhere. But being honest and thinking for one's self displays a greater level of understanding.
All of the foregoing may seem a bit stiff-necked, but its the only way I can describe it.

I like young people (I was one mi'sell once) they are our future. When I was young I was not one of the good ones...but I learnt. I have 2 sons aged 34 and 30, and 2 grandchildren aged 15 and 11, and I hope they can add something good to this horrible world (but the only one we have).

I worry about young people in todays climate of stupidity, ignorance, political correctness, hate, greed, and the low-life parasites who set extremely poor examples to them. My grand-daughter (15) was caught drinking at a party.................not drunk, but alcopop stuff. She said that it was the others who teased her into taking a drink! What should I do?

It's already been done...and she feels a whole lot better about the incident and she's still my loving grand-daughter, and we are still the best of friends.

I took to the bottle when I was 12 years old and started smoking at the same time...so I wasn't a goody-goody myself. Lots of people on this site have done things that were wrong, especially when they were young. Youth is a time to make mistakes...and correct them.

So an older person is just a young person who's aged! not deteriorated!

So let's just get on with life...but remember to learn from it (I still do, every day)

Re: Young people today
 

Your response to Lettie confuses me. I can't see anywhere where she indicates that she doesn't enjoy life now let alone when she was a teenager. She did comment upon a teenager who seems hardly to be experiencing life let alone enjoying it.

I find it amusing when teenagers assume that us old uns have no idea what it's like to be their age. One day (when you get to be as old as us) you'll suddenly realise that you really aren't all that different. Have you seen the ad on TV, on the subject of pensions and preparing for retirement, where a woman (with a scouse accent) says "talk to me Dad, I'm only 17. I think I always will be." Inside every old fogey there's a teenager wondering where all the time went.

Of course we knew how to have fun, did crazy things, worried our parents to death when we got home late (didn't have mobile phones in those days to get in touch with them) rode motorbikes with the wind in our hair (before it became compulsory to wear crash helmets and before we realised how stupid it was). But I think we had respect for authority which in some (not all) young people today seems to be sadly lacking.

I don't think any of us would criticise anyone young or old for wanting to enjoy life. It's the attitude to others and lack of respect which many of us find rather sad. When I was a child it went without saying that you got up on a bus if an adult was standing and offered them your seat. I rarely see that nowadays. There seems to be an attitude of "I've paid for it. I'm sitting on it." But children pay half fair. It is only courtesy to offer that seat to an older person.

Chappy, I don't think it's a case of having a "downer" on all young people - from reading the initial post of the thread I got the impression that the author was speaking from personal experience and not generalising but talking about specific instances of young people he had tried to work with but who didn't seem to want to actually work.

I agree with you that there are good and bad in all ages as well as all races. The question has been posed - what suggestions do you have for dealing with the problems? Those who make the headlines in the papers are the ones we hear about - the bad experiences (schoolchildren throwing furniture at teachers) are the things we will remember - problems which need to be solved. How do you young people suggest we solve it? Or do you find it acceptable and feel that we should just let such people behave any way they wish?

You will be the ones living in the future, long after we are gone. It will be your world. What would you like it to be like? If I were a teenager today I'd like to think my future would be a positive one, not a potentially lawless society. I'd like to think that everyone would want the dignity of working to support themselves and their families. I'd like to see a bright, hopeful future for my children, but I often wonder if it's an impossible dream.

My cousin in America sent me details of how many shootings had taken place in US schools over the last few years (not shootings by crazed gunmen but by pupils at those schools) and it makes very depressing reading and yet JohnW lives in a part of America where things like this do not happen. It shouldn't happen anywhere. That's the point.

Re: Young people today
 

It took me so long to type that little lot - you got in before me Darby! :)

Re: Young people today
 

I don't think anyone did say you were all 'like that'. Opinions were requested and opinions have been given. From what I have read I detect more intollerance of the older generation coming from the younger ones than vice versa.

How then do you explain why one teenage son of a friend of mine has gone totally 'off the rails' whilst the rest of the family behave admirably? He has the same parents as his siblings. If you ever become a parent yourself you'll realise that it isn't so easy. Do you do everything your parents ask/tell you to do?

However, I do agree with your comment about those who get everything they want and are subsequently bored yet assume that society owes them a living. It doesn't! I don't pay taxes to support layabouts who have no desire to work.

Alas I fear your attitude (and the rest of the PC brigade along with you) is largely to blame for many of society's ills today. They know they can get away with God knows what and no-one can do anything about it.

I too have experience of todays youth - and echo your sentiments. Some (please note I said some and not all) young people today don't even seem to know the meaning of the word respect.

These two comments merely illustrate that neither of you seem to have read the thread very thoroughly let alone responded in an intelligent manner.

If you want to convince us that you are representatives of the better element of today's youth you aren't doing a very good job of it so far.

Would that there were more like you in the world. Children need boundaries and they need to know what happens when they cross them. It isn't cruelty - it is kindness and a necessity. A child who is allowed 'personal freedom' and not punished so as not to infringe upon their human rights actually displays symptoms of neglect and indifference.

And whence came this respect? From the way you chastised them when they misbehaved. The PC brigade will have left a legacy that future generations will live to regret. Who is going to pick up the pieces?

For the record, my kids know that if they act out of line they will be punished. Some of that punishment may take the form of witholding certain privileges but we haven't been above a smack on the legs now and again when the behaviour warranted it.

Re: Young people today
 

Well,that was a good reponse!
As the author of the original posting I thank you for the time and effort in replying.
Now for my two pennyworth.
No of course not all teenagers are the same, we are all individuals,but personally I think things are getting worse by the day.
I work on the periphery of the Youth service(not myself a youth worker)Each day I see troubled teenagers in various moods,happy cheeky and carefree(as they should be).Moody and depressed(part of growing up).
Then I see the ones influenced by drink and drugs(sometimes both)foul mouth violent mini thugs.They bully and cajole their more timid peers constantly.
The Youth workers do an impossible job;befriending even the most vile behaved,in the hope that somewhere in the darkness a chink of light will be seen and that the youngster will grow through this difficult phase into a responsible adult.
I don't know the success rate,but suspect it is very low.
The teenagers misbehave then any person who tries to prevent them is verbally abused and always but alwaysthe rant ends with the time honoured phrase'Your'e not allowed to touch me'.
I myself am constantly facing verbal and sometimes physical threats.
Obviously I am seeing the darker side of youngsters behaviour,but the fact remains thousands of pounds are spent each year(by you dear taxpayer)to keep these kids off the streets and contained in one place.
The question is.
Is this money well spent?

Re: Young people today
 

I encounter them when they have gone beyond that stage, when they are so convinced that they should be entitled to anything they want that they just help themselves, or they throw a brick through a shop window simply because it's there or they are bored.

They steal a car, crash it, often injuring others in the process. They call it joy riding. Where is the joy?

An argument turns into a fight, a weapon is drawn - resulting in injury or death.

Then we find when they are arrested they are entitled to a defence - and who pays for that? You again dear tax payer. You and I.

Yes perhaps we only see the darker side Lampman but I'm convinced the dark is growing darker by the day. :(

So, what is the solution? The PC way obviously isn't working is it?

Re: Young people today
 

gobsmacked... . I simply dont believe hitting children is the answer..I have never ever said not to punish children.. only that hitting them isnt the answer... feel free to twist my words.. call me pc brigade and even laughingly blame me for the way society is (jeeze man) But I stick to my guns.. hitting children is not the answer in my opinion.. sorry you dont like it but please dont make childish remarks towards me just for having that opinion :(

Re: Young people today
 

OH MY GOD.... I DONT AGREE IN HITTING CHILDREN SO I LOSE NOT ONE BUT TWO KARMA


Well you can take them all if you want...I still wont hit children no matter what you say ..

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Look at the evidence Kipax. Your ideology simply doesn't work.

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Ye Gods and little fishes - why do Karma points worry people so much?

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Re: Young people today
 

gobsmacked... what makes you think it worries me.. I was making the point that people are so far hitting children and so against those that wont that they take action like that.

gobsmacked so far you ahve accused me of being pc brigade.. accused me of being one of the reasons society is so bad and now accused me of worrying about karma..

I dont agree in hitting kids.. lets not make it one long personal attack against me just for having that though ok?

Re: Young people today
 

Lets face it...most youths in this area are growing up in a very poor and under-privilaged area. What better do kids know these days? They grow up with little and spending the rest of their youth resenting this fact! I totally believe that kids behave, more or less, how they are brought up by their PARENTS. It is so disheartening to walk through the town centre (on the occasions I can't avoid it) to see people who are, honestly, lucky if they can just about look after themselves pushing prams and who are pregnant again. It is just a downward spiral, the majority of people bringing up children in Accrington are those who can least afford and are able to.

And thats just it, some people should just not have children, the children they bring into the world just have little or no chance.

Re: Young people today
 

Horror.............I smacked my sons when they were very bad. And the youngest was recovering from Leukamia, but he had to be disciplined when he was really out of order, and he knew that! It hurt me more than it hurt them. They were smacked (not beaten) at an age where they could not logically understand why they had done something wrong, and I could not hold a rational conversation with them for them to understand what was wrong! But they sure understood a smacking (it didn't really hurt, but it embarassed and shocked them)

I also believe that what Kippax says is a valid an justified arguement. I would love to be able to do what he advocates, but I hold very strong beliefs, and was brought up the way I was brought-up, smacked very little, and only when I'd been very bad...and it worked for me, and my sister. When kids are older (depending on the individual), say about 12 or so, you can hold a rational discussion with them and smacking becomes redundant, and totally unnecessary

By that time they should know right from wrong, or we as parents, have failed in our parental duties.

With the advent of making physical punishment illegal (well in most instances), the discipline has gone (not all parents let it go - therefore not all kids have lost their self discipline). It's no good punishing the parents for a kids indiscretions, it's the kid who has to learn, and they won't learn if somebody else is punished! Remember the adage "Spare the rod and spoil the child" Dickensian...and extreme, but it made boys ..men!

We can argue until we are blue in the face about this issue...and nothing will change. Society has to redress the situation and that can only come from wise politicians and sensible law makers---fat chance of finding any of them!!

But the current situation is out of hand and worsening daily. Just ask yourself the following questions:

1. How did the situation become so bad?
2. What created the situation to worsen?
3. When did it start?
4. What values and examples are set by todays society to correct the situation or exacerbate it?
5. Who is willing to correct it (the situation that is)?
6. How can we go back to a society that is just and fair?

Some of my answers are:

Blame - Politicians, Political Correctness, The Legal Society, The Press, The Media, and finally the Parents and their deteriorating standards.

Correction - Dump the pollies, get rid of 95% of the Legal parasites, Make the Press and Media accountable for their tripe.
Make parents responsible for their own lack of self discipline, and responsible for their actions so they can set an example for todays young generation.
Make: No rights without responsibilities, a requirement of our society, and ditch the European Human Rights Bill.

I am not the worlds best dad...I am what I am............but my lads and grandchildren say I'm better than any other dad or grand-dad.

Re: Young people today
 

I have a question for all you people who say it is right to hit children if they have done wrong. Lets see if you can answer it without insulting me.

You say they have to learn and that hitting them is the way to do it. Gobsmacked, busman and a few others all say that is the answer. I say it is not and that there are other ways to punish children. I was happy to have a difference of opinion but it would seem I am to be insulted and accused of all manner of things for having my opinion......Thus gloves off then :) ..... My question is.

Does the concept of hitting someone for doing wrong only apply to children. Or do you hit the man in the pub for doing wrong. Do you hit the driver that annoys you. What about spouses.. I do things my wife thinks is wrong and my wife does thing I think is wrong . I am sure its the same in all partnerships at some time or another .. Do you hit your wife for doing something wrong... Or is it just children you hit?

Does this great plan of hitting people to make them learn only apply to hitting children?

Re: Young people today
 

You have every right Kippax to say what you think. I don't feel that anybody on this site is trying to blame you for the ills of our society:

Smacking is not Hitting!

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You keep telling your kids that.........

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They are big enough and tough enough, to smack me now. I asked them many times after they had grown up if it really did them any harm. Both said, they now believe it was necessary, because if I hadn't, they would have carried on to worse things.

Proof of the Pudding!

Were you never smacked as a kid? If you were HIT, then I can understand why you detest it!

Re: Young people today
 

Whilst understanding Kipax's viewpoint,my original posting didn't advocate smacking/hitting children.
To the contary hitting these youngsters would be the least advisable action,apart from the legal implications;some of them are six foot four and more.
How would any of you handle such a confrontation and stay within the law.
Clue, a reasoned argument pointing out their shortcomings doesn't work!

Re: Young people today
 

Oh Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeese, :rolleyes: don't blame America for all your ills. For Gods sake no-one asks you to copy the American way of life, take some responsibility for what you, as a country, do. If you are copying the American way then you must think they have something worth copying.

Someone else mentioned the shootings in schools. Yes, that's a terrible thing but we are picking on isolated incidents here. I am talking about the general attitude of the yob element in Europe. And the word "yob" also embraces people who are a lot older than teenagers. Here, we do not have that "If you have a nice car and I don't, I'm going to scratch the side of it with a coin" attitude. We don't have the mindless smashing up of bus shelters and telephone kiosks. That is what I'm getting at. The mindless acts of violence and willful damage that seem to have no logical reasoning behind them. There is little or no swearing or violence at sporting stadia. Of course there are always exceptions to every rule. I am talking about GENERAL ATTITUDES.

Re: Young people today
 

That wouldn't be why you have stopped hitting them would it?


OK Darby answers my questions with the classic "Smacking is not hitting" in a vain attempt to justify hitting children.

What about you busman and all the rest who say its OK to hit children. will you be answering my question.. do you hit/smack or wahtever you want to call it other adults and your spouse for example? Or is it just defenceless children?

Re: Young people today
 

I agree that Smacking is not Hitting

EG a 20mnth old toddler is stumbling around and keep's going toward's the the fire. The more you stress that it is wrong, the bigger the grin on the child's face and get's dangerously close to the fire.

The child is pushing the boudaries which is part of growing up:) but this is one time when a reasoned discussion with a 20mnth old toddler about the pain of a burn will not help. A small smack on the hand and a stern face may be needed to teach the child that this is one boundary that can not be pushed .

That is Disepline(spell checker roy) not hitting !!!!

I agree hitting children is a total waste of effort it does not work.

But until they can be reasoned with logically some smacking may be needed.

In my 8 yr old's class yesterday a young boy in his class would not do as his teacher told him, he was being very naughty said my son. The response from the boy to the teacher was "You can not make me it is a free world". SAD very SAD.

Re: Young people today
 

Sorry Kipax you seem to be confusing a desire with a responsibility
And I do not attempt to justify hitting a child at all.

I don't hit anybody if I can possibly avoid doing it. I'm old enough and experienced to see situations arising where trouble is likely to break out and leave. But if I must...I will. I'm a little short of tall and a couple of pounds (3 or 4 only) overweight. But where needs.....must. I would hit a woman if she attempted to hit me.

However I would never hit a lady. And my wife is one!

But under normal conditions you cannot compare grown-ups with children.

What about that guy walking home in Accy a couple of years ago who told some kids to stop throwing stones at an elderly couple...the kids (louts) kicked his eye out. What would you do....discuss the issue before they kicked your eye out? and afterwards tell the nice policeman (if you could find one within 2 days) you didn't strike a blow at these unfortunate deprived (Depraved more like)children as it's against the law!!

No... we must think more about why we are in this situation and try to recover it to a state with which we are all happy and above all safe!

Re: Young people today
 

darby.. theres a difference between self defence and hitting children because they have been naughty... get a grip man :(

Re: Young people today
 

Hitting? Smacking? I don't think the kids care what you call it........

Re: Young people today
 

I hated school and concentrating in class but it was of undeniable benefit to me :) Because the teacher's new what was good for me.

Sometime's it is a parent's responsibility to guide a child in right's and wrong's. It is not for the child to decide if it is right or nice. That's the parent's job.

Of course kids don't like discepline but without it we can see where the world is heading :(

:):)

Re: Young people today
 

Just because I dont hit my kds doesnt mean they dont get punished.. haha thats a laughable idea. I dont think anyone is saying they shouldnt be punished.. only the methods.

Hitting your kids must work for you.. as it must for gobsmacked, busman and the rest

not hititng kids works for me.

A shame people cant just understand and live with that... instead I am to be blamed for the woes of the world :(

Re: Young people today
 

Well the thread seems to be going slightly adrift of my first posting.
Are youngsters less well behaved than the kids of the 50's/ 60's/etc?[I]

Re: Young people today
 

I can not remember SMACKING any of my kid's because reasoning and witholding certain thing's(footy, playstation, spend's etc) is the way that work's 99% of the time :)


But what me and other's are saying is you NEED there to be an option for smacking when it is apropiate, Hopefully never needed, But not all kid's are the same.

You are only to blame for all that is wrong in accrington Kipax...... :) not the world!!!!!

The example I quoted earlier about the 8yr old saying "you can not make me it is a free country" to his teacher is so sad because that cheeky little *** is in the RIGHT saying that, and that can not work the teacher need's to be in the RIGHT, or else the whole system will fall apart.....

When you take away the option for smacking this is the path to disaster..

Re: Young people today
 

I for one lampman am convinced that they are worse than 20yrs ago...

Re: Young people today
 

Hey i can live with that :)

Re: Young people today
 

I agree with you Simon. I think they are worse and I can only see them deteriorating because we have the attitude you describe so well of "You can't punish me. You can't stop me. I've got my rights."

A child caught by the police vandalising simply laughs in their faces as he knows very well there is nothing they can do because he is only 8 years old.

I've just been heartbroken today reading an account in the paper by the mother of the 14 year old girl who was shot. I cannot begin to imagine the pain she is going through. What kind of a country do we live in where a 14 year old girl can be shot and killed? I have a daughter about the same age. I can relate to that.

We really must make a distinction between smacking and hitting as most people here seem to be able to do. Smacking is done with love and care (as in protecting the small child from the fire). Hitting is done out of anger. It is a totally diferent thing. Smacking is more gentle. Hitting is violent. I do not and never will advocate hitting a child or an adult but my children knew and know that the threat of a smack is there if they deserve it.

I remember a friend of mine looking up at her teenage son who was misbehaving and saying sternly "You're not too old for a smack bottom!" It did the trick. He was strong enough to have fought her had he so desired but the very thought of the humiliation of a smack on the bum was enough to deter him.

Please tell us a better way. How do you prevent the small child from burning himself? Yes you can steer him away but the moment your back is turned he'll try again. The smack on the wrist hurts a heck of a lot less then being burned.

I'm not into child abuse AT ALL but statistics show that we have a very real problem and it began to escalate with a change of attitude towards smacking.

It's hardly fair to blame parents when their children misbehave and then blame parents when they try to discipline them to prevent such behaviour.

Re: Young people today
 

hahahahahaha




.

Re: Young people today
 

Then you obviously don't know the difference which explains your attitude towards it.

Re: Young people today
 

One is raising your hand to a child.. the other is raising your hand to a child...

sorry but hitting a child and then trying to justify it by calling it smacking is pathetic... then we have that you smack children so they dont harm themselves (I am still trying to figure that mentality out) then telling us smacking is done with love and care... well thats just plain laughable.

I ask again.. do you think the children care if you call it hitting or smacking ?

Re: Young people today
 

Hang on a minute - mine are both upstairs so I'll ask.

Better to get an opinion direct than to tell you what I think they think.

Re: Young people today
 

Reply from 13 year old:

"Smacking doesn't really hurt. It's just to tell you off. Hitting is like a violence and hurts more. Children need to be smacked if they are being bad and won't listen to teach them a lesson, but not to be hit though.
Any parent that hit a child would be classed as child abuse but smacking is just necessary if a child won't listen and is being downright naughty. They need it to learn."


From my 10 year old:

"Smacking is just like gently and stuff. Hitting is a big fat massive wham. If a child started a fire at school or owt they need a smack or something else dangerous like nearly kill someone or summat they need a smack. You should never actually like hit a child because that's child abuse."

I've typed that exactly as they said it in their own words, each one asked separately.

Re: Young people today
 

Hmmmm really ?


Confused... Who exactly is smacking your children ?

Re: Young people today
 

By the way.. if that was said by your children it has to be the most depressing thing I have ever read .... Children saying that its ok to be smacked... thats gotta be wrong :(

Re: Young people today
 

No-one smacks them Kipax, I don't need to smack them. They know that the possibility is there and that's enough. Can't you understand the concept of a deterrant?

I smacked them on the odd occasion when they were smaller because it was the only thing they understood in situations like the one Simon described with the fire.

My older daughter just demonstrated on the back of my hand what such a smack feels like and it was a million miles away from anything I would consider a "hit".

Re: Young people today
 

BTW a group of children did start a fire at my younger child's school. The school of course was not permitted to punish them in spite of the fact that they put a teacher's life in danger. I do not know how the parents reprimanded them but I do know that some showed remorse and others didn't.

Re: Young people today
 

Don't bother Willow......Suffice it to say that Kipax has his way...and the rest of us have our way. Diversity is what makes life!

Re: Young people today
 

Kipax Willow's children's response is Very encouraging...........

Why do you find it depressing?????

Re: Young people today
 

Oh well you have convinced me then.... I best start hitting my children this very evening... From what your children say.. there gonna be so pleased daddy has started hitting them..


DUH!

Re: Young people today
 

I don't know how old your children are and I have not said that you should do anything of the sort but you still don't seem to be able to make the distinction between hitting and smacking.

Re: Young people today
 

Hehehehe...:D Confused about what??? Why people would respond like what???
Nowhere in any of my posts on this thread have I challenged anybody's responses to anything (except yours now)
I would also like to add that although I was in no way a model teenager (my middle name was detention) I found a goal in life and worked towards it. I also said in my first post that not all teenagers are yobs. I don't know where your response to my post has come from, you don't sound old enough to be confused just yet, and neither am I..:)

Now where did I leave my coffee????;)

Re: Young people today
 

Young at heart lettie .... Thats the best way :)

Re: Young people today
 

Im totally against smacking as when i was small my older brother used to hit me just because i was not doing exactly what he wanted me to do so this then turned into fighting. Unfortunately when he used to go out to party he would do the same to other people thinking it was o'k (just because he saw my dad smaking me) and the rest is history. But can u see what smacking can do to a child!!!

Smaking is wrong i have always thought that a strong word in the ear is ten times more usefull than a smack We should deter from violence at all costs

Re: Young people today
 

What effect can a strong word in the ear have on a child too young to understand those words? (See Simon's point about a toddler and fire)

Your brother hitting you has nothing to do with smacking and everything to do with bullying.

Re: Young people today
 

So your saying that to keep children safe from harm... we should smack them!

SIGH :(

And I am the only person who can see summat wrong with that picture am I ?

.

Re: Young people today
 

no we shoud not smack kids what ever the circumstance

Re: Young people today
 

Kipax and Steven please tell me, and this is a genuine request, what do you do in a circumstance such as the one with fire which has been described? How do you rebuke a child who is too young to understand your reasoning? How do you get across to a child not to do something when they cannot understand the words "do not do that"?

How old are your children? How have you disciplined them?

Re: Young people today
 

OK Kipax and Steven,
You are both completely against chastising children whatever their age. Please tell us, what is this magic formula you have used on your own children? You both keep repeating that fact but have so far been unable to enlighten us "smackers" as to any effective alternatives!

I said early on that I have smacked my children but am quite sure that none were chastised after the age of seven or eight, there was no need!

One of my children stopped receiving smacks at the age of 4 when it became apparent that she did not feel the sting of a slap on the hand or lower leg.....and rather than hit harder, it was a joint decision between my wife and myself that other options were looked at. One of the problems is that if a parent makes a threat of any kind, it has to be carried out if the child ignores the adult, so one day it came to pass that an assortment of toys, dolls and other paraphinalia ended up littering the back garden after being ejected through the bedroom window! That was the first and last time I said in anger, "clean up your room or it all goes out the window!"

Another of my children was completely the opposite, the mere threat of a smack would reduce her to tears...not because she was afraid of being hurt but because if it reached that point, she knew that her Mum or Dad was really angry at her and she hated upsetting us. Thinking back, I don't think she was ever actually smacked at all!

Like most parents, we tried alternatives, go to bed early, no playing out with friends etc etc and I found that these caused a lot of resentment from my children which is far more damaging long-term than a smack (which is followed swiftly with a cuddle providing there is an apology or promise to do the task they originally failed to do)

My youngest is now 25 so this all happened a long time ago but after seeing the results, I do not consider myself a "wicked" Dad and am proud of all my girls and their attitudes to life.

So please Kipax and you also Steve, Give us your examples on how to correct misbehaving children!

Re: Young people today
 

You dont put a child in that sort of danger in the first place.... Hardly rocket science now is it.

I suppose I now lose karma and get moaned at for not endangering my children..

Pathetic :(

Re: Young people today
 

busman... calm down... it isnt a mortal sin not to hit children you know... .:)

Re: Young people today
 

Are you now implying that some of us wilfully put our children in dangerous situations?

Has your life really been so perfect? Or are you just avoiding the issue?

Re: Young people today
 

Re: Young people today
 

Edited at the request of Kipax. :rolleyes:

Re: Young people today
 

He sounds perfectly calm to me. If anyone seems to be getting hot under the collar you are the one giving that impression.

I too would appreciate your magic formula for correcting children. If it works so well why not share with the rest of us. Don't expect us to believe that your children have never done anything wrong.

Re: Young people today
 

I have complied with your request, Kipax despite the fact that I did not accuse anyone of hitting anyone. Please learn the difference.

Now I see that your request has been deleted completely.

I would still like to repeat my request that you share with us exactly how you discipline your children and how old they are - and how well it works. If you think we are wrong to smack our children then please explain to us your alternative.

Re: Young people today
 

After the recent post by gobsmacked i am now leaving this thread..

my last word is..

I dont hit my children

Its a shame some of you think thats such a crime ......

Re: Young people today
 

Most people have a variety of fires and heaters in their house, even radiators can cause burns on skin (especially babies) Perhaps the family dog, normally so placcid decides that it doesn't like its bone being removed from its mouth and gives a warning growl, or maybe those three little holes in the wall that mum or dad puts things like plugs into start to become facsinating, can I get my little finger in there?

Its not pathetic Kipax, its real life. If someone is removing your precious Karma points, (NO, not me, can't be bothered) it would be because of your stick-in-the-mud attitude, not your views on not smacking. I would guess that there are many members waiting to see your solutions to this problem, don't keep your audience waiting too long. (or you Steven when you come back on-line)

Re: Young people today
 

We'll have a long wait Busman - he has declined to answer us.

I would like to know his solution but he isn't about to share it with us. He has 'left the thread'


In my own personal experience the only children I am aware of who have never been smacked have turned into nasty little pieces of work who think they can get away with murder.

Kipax assures us his children are well-behaved yet he will not share with the rest of us how he has acheived this.

Re: Young people today
 

WOW what a thread ! How on earth are the mature(ish) people on here expect youths to behave when they cant even do that themselves. I have to laugh at some of the childishness on here? Yes a serious subject but come on guys some of the adults have reverted to being children now or were they ever grownup?

To attemt to bring back a laugh im just lookin at the new LAROS (local authority road safety officers asociation) sticker. quote : " Hug your kids at home.... Belt them in the car..." Ouch !Is it about seat belts or have they been reading this website ??

Maybe Kipax gave his kids love and affection, and gave them respect when the did something right? shame most adults today cant give youths respect to.

Another point gone by the wayside is that yes there are plenty of incidents of young people commiting crime. But arnt our prisons bursting with adults who were brought up in this ideal discipline word of 50 years ago ???? Oh yeh murderers rapists peadophiles.

Is it not the old ones on here thats brought up the children of today??

Give our children a chance! its up to us to show them respect. Unless we give them respect we should not expect it back?

Re: Young people today
 

I see where you are coming from Chappy but to answer your points:

Yes, Kipax may (and probably does) give his kids love and affection, no one questions that....but he was blinkered in his reply to exactly how he stopped his children from doing wrong,

"Is it not the old ones on here thats brought up the children of today??" ....NO!! You are old enough to remember the decades of respect!

Things started going sour a couple of decades ago when the phrase "P.C." was invented! Are you old enough to remember the village bobby? or the teachers that were a substitute parent between the hours of 9am to 3.30 pm? Can you honestly say that your parents never chastised you from birth to the age of seven? If not, what kept you on the straight and narrow. please tell!!

"Give our children a chance! its up to us to show them respect. Unless we give them respect we should not expect it back"

We give them respect until they show that they do not deserve it. I would like to think that the majority of kids today are law abiding and honest but.......have you tried walking through a major town like Burnley or Blackburn at midnight? As a coach driver, I have, and the feeling you get is HOSTILE! Halifax in my opinion is the worst town in the north, After 11pm, it seems to be a "no go" area for police, let alone sober coach drivers!

This is NOT a problem caused by just parents, whether they smack their kids or not, the P.C. brigade state that we should not "chastise" our children, so it is frowned upon, The youth quickly learn that THEY are in control and are immune to parents, teachers, police...etc etc!! 10 years ago, they learnt that they could beat someone up and get away with it because they are "under age" Today, they can shoot a gun at a victim and plead that they "found the gun" and didn't realise the consequences of pulling the trigger!" HOGWASH!!

Kids of today have us old'uns over a barrel and they know it! Smack and I'll sue, Swear and I'll sue!....

At this point, I would like to state that there are many kids that still have respect but I wonder if the percentage has dropped to below 50%??? The question is that of the remaining "thugs" How many have been pampered by parents that "do not feel it is nessesary to "smack" their kids when they are young?"

I recall one lad that was given "the benefit of the doubt" by his parents, and at the age of 16, ruled the household, regularly, beating up his parents because he was angry or upset! He was never brought to justice by the authorities because his parents were too afraid of him, but everyone in the village knew what was going on because he was "proud" of his achievements and boasting gave him "street cred"

Ask your sons or daughters how important "street cred" is.........you may be shocked by their answers!

Re: Young people today
 

IMHO I think it started going down hill when they dropped the voting age to 18 and also the drinking age to 18, no matter what teenagers say they are not mature enough at 18 to make decsions. Also not enough emphasis on staying in school, everyone wants to leave early, why? because a lot of parents are under the impression that you dont need to go to Uni and no pressure is put on kids in school to improve, if they show a lack of ability in a subject then they are left behind the teacher has to much to do to help the slow kids.So they leave at 16/15 not a lot to do but hey the dole pays out till you get a job, how many 16yr olds do you see in pubs or drunk at 1am in Burnley/Blackburn town center again in my opinion too many. JW earlier in the thread mentioned the USA and how different it is, yes the area he lives in is not on the poverty line like Accy but it does have its hood, (low income housing,unemployed,drug dealers etc..) whats the biggest difference I noticed when I came home at Christmas the amount of kids in pubs and condoned by the parents. Is it TV that makes them in to little adults or the parents, "oh look our Jonnys ****ed, oh isnt he funny when he cant walk" not to funny when hes being picked up for being drunk and disorderly but hey hes only a kid officer, the police always pick on kids.

Re: Young people today
 

I agree with you that at 18 many young people are really not mature enough to make serious decisions even though they themselves probably think they are. I remember someone I know saying she was voting for a certain person because he was good looking! Like that is really going to help run the country.

One reason why poorer families do not encourage their children to stay on at school and beyond is the actual cost of them going to Uni. The lack of student grants and the ethos of student debt doesn't create an ideal situation. I've heard people say that the government obviously doesn't want poor people to get a higher education these days and I can see why they feel that way.

The way JohnW talks about the USA he gives the impression that there is very little evidence of problems caused by low income let alone drug dealers etc. My cousin lives in California which has its share of affluence but also a large number of people not only on the poverty line but well below it and referred to as "the underclass" - what a depressing title.

Kids in pubs. Yes well my kids go with us into pubs for meals. Quite often the best meals out are to be found in pubs. They don't drink alcohol (but then again neither do I) Maybe it's because pubs concentrate more on the restaurant side these days that you get whole families in there.

I see young drunks in town too but it's hard to know how old they are. There does seem to be this culture amongst young teens that you can't have enjoyed yourself unless you get totally blotto and can't remember a thing the next morning. I think alcopops and fancy drinks have a lot to do with encouraging kids to drink. It's a sad state of affairs isn't it?

Re: Young people today
 

Well we have had a various reponse to the thread,some interesting views have been stated.I had hoped that some of the members involved in Youth Work would have responded;after all they are at the sharp end!
Just as a matter of interest the BBC will shortly be broadcasting a programme,that shows that Accrington doesn't yet have the monoply on Youth problems.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ma/3747120.stm
I shudder to think what life will be like if and when this particular culture arrives in our neck of the woods.

Re: Young people today
 

That's a scary link there Lampman. I do know parents who have no idea where their children are when they are out with their mates. I am not talking about just teens here, but younger children too. I don't know if the situation is worse today than it was with the teddy boys, rockers etc, as I don't remember that era. I would say that it seems to be worse than the punks/skins/goths gangs who were around when I was a teenager. I used to frequent the same places as some of these people and still see them now. To my recollection it was rare for anyone to carry a weopon (gun/knife etc) but a Doc Martin used to hurt like hell when kicked by one..

Re: Young people today
 

It is scary Lettie, I agree. I know of one instance of a child taking a knife to school (primary school) a couple of years ago.

I remember having a penknife as a child but I used it to carve the middle out of a swede at Hallowe'en ............. and a tiring process that was, made your hand ache. It would never have occurred to me to use it as a weapaoan against anyone else.

A friend of mine (boy) spent many hours "sittin' wit'lin" as he called it.

I worry about the way things seem to be going these days and wish someone who thinks they have the solution could advise us what to do.

Re: Young people today
 

Willow your right about them not wanting to fund higher education but its not just now it was also when I left school plus the fact that the UK has made it elitist so its not available to everyone, it a crying shame when you see figures that show more people are getting degrees through open univeristy with an average age of over 37 then people leaving our higher education establishments.
I could live with your argument about food in pubs but I am not talking about a family out eating, I saw many of them and ate in quiet a few while home, I am talking about going in to pubs in Accy and seeing 15 and 16 years old kids getting drunk and as I still like to pub crawl seeing the same kids bumping in to there parents in different pubs.
Here is an ordinunce from St Petersburg(next door to Tampa, not Russia)

At the BayWalk entertainment complex in St. Petersburg, youths under 18 must be with a guardian who is at least 21 years old after 11 p.m. On the second floor, where the bars are located, youths under 18 must be with a parent or guardian after 9 p.m.
The city of Pinellas Park technically still has a juvenile curfew, but officials have decided not to enforce it until all court challenges are complete.

Could/would this happen in Accy?

Re: Young people today
 

In theory education is supposed to be available for everyone. At one time there were student grants. Now there are student loans which encourages them to start out life with a huge debt.

On the subject of drinking and kids, am I being naive thinking there is a law which says you have to be 18 to purchase and consume alcohol here? If these kids are obviously 15/16 shouldn't the pubs be refusing to serve them?

I know we have little notices up saying the consuming of alcohol on the street is forbidden - just how strongly enforced this is I have no idea.

This summer we went to the Light & Water Festival in Morecambe where the new policy is no alcohol to be consumed in the arena. In the afternoon a couple of middle aged harmless characters were marched off and told off for having cans of lager - but later in the evening we saw people with large bottles of cider, vodka, and various alcopops with not a soul in sight doing a thing about it. What is the point of having laws/rules if there's no-one there to enforce them?

Ooh, wait a minute, maybe our Crime Czars could do it?

Re: Young people today
 

I also give my children love and affection, and praise them when they do something right.

If they are respect worthy then they earn respect, it isn't a tit for tat thing. I don't expect respect from someone because I respect them and I don't respect them in order to gain their respect. If I respect someone it is because they are deserving of it. (That's almost a worse tongue twister than Peter Piper picking his peck of pickled pepper!)

Re: Young people today
 

I dont smack my children i never have i never will because of what i believe in.

I think that to "punish" a child by taking away privalidges eg computor or their TV for a week is surley going to impact (parden the pun) them more than a slap or clip around the ear.
This is because society has moved on and so punishment has to move on because, so to take away there enjoyment factor for a week or a few days is going to be felt more by them.
Because when my dad used to hit me that was the only real option for him. But now as a parent i beleive i can "punish" my children for misbehaviour better than a clip around the ear hole.

Re: Young people today
 

That's similar to how my children would be punished for misbehaviour today (grounding - ie no playing out and no friends in) is usually what I go for, but they are old enough at 10 and 13 for that to have an impact. They are old enough to reason with and to explain things to.

What I'd really like to know is how you go about preventing a toddler from doing something which may be dangerous. (fingers in the fire and that kind of thng) I don't assume a toddler is even aware of the existence of a computer so to deprive them of it wouldn't mean anything. I don't personally know of an alternative which would be effective and would appreciate knowing how you disciplined yours when they were tiny.

I know someone suggested earlier in this thread that I abuse my children by continually hitting them which is a million miles from the truth. They were smacked when they were too young to understand anything different (or I was unaware of anything which they would understand at that age) and having learned not to do those things we moved on. As they grew older then it became more possible to reason with them and to explain the reasons for not doing things.

Yes, I did try to protect them from dangers but I had one toddler who managed to build herself a bridge to climb over the child gate at her bedroom door - that was the kind of initiative I was up against. I put plug guards in the sockets, she removed them. I said "don't do that" She still removed them. :(

Perhaps you've been very lucky with children who understood your instructions from a very early age and didn't experiment with ways to overcome obstacles.