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BBC News - Justine Greening announces railway cost-cutting plans who thinks the railways should be re nationalised?

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My argument is the money the private firms have paid their shareholders should have been re invested or used in another useful way.the public money that has been given to private firms is a disgrace.back in the eighties we were promised competition which would have meant cheaper rail travel.what we got was the opposite.the most expensive in europe .

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The same principal applies fer most of our industry, not just those they sold off, The railways should certainly not have been flogged off.;)

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Something drastic needs to be done. Commuters are paying through the nose for transport that is atrocious. There must be a way to make public transport more user friendly. They want to get people out of their cars and onto public transport, yet what transport there is, appears not to be fit for purpose.
I am with Cashy in thinking that public transport should not be in the hands of those who only want to make a profit, not run a service.

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Rail prices are set to rise yet again...for the second time in 6 months, it really pee's me off, as many know i travel a lot by train, my family railcard from April will be £30, that goes up at a rate of £2 per year, kids get 60 % off with it and adults get 1/3 off, soon the price rises are going to stop me travelling by train because i just can't afford it which is such a shame because i love travelling the country by train

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I very rarely use the train these days, even though i much prefer it, Far too expensive. Got a price to go Norwich Return a few years ago was just oer £200, costs me less to FLY to Malaga.:(

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I love travelling by train -at the perfect height for seeing everything out of the window and you can read, listen to music etc while you travel. You also get more of a sense of the distance your travelling. I always seem to manage to strike up a conversation with fellow passengers and it's nice to talk to complete strangers for a while...other people's lives are so interesting.

As to re-nationalizing -imagine that would be difficult -if it were for me though we'd go back to the age of steam too!:D

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Just where would we get the money to re nationalise the railways, remember the countries broke, we've no money we're in hock up to our neck,

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well they found 3 billion for this BBC News - Green bank headquarters to be based in Edinburgh

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yes and add water ,gas and electricity to that as well

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seems to be plenty of money floating around

millions in unjustified and unwanted aid and billions for this

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Of course the railways should be re- nationalised but can't see any way it will happen... it's already been said here that the privitisation should not have happend same as electric and gas...but most worrying is the Tory dogma and hatred of any "public service"...the NHS is the seems to be the next target.

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Don't take Bamber Gascoigne to figure out who the 1 vote is?:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

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the government could grow a set of balls and do a compulsary purchase of the rail system and untilities.If councils can force people out of their homes with compulsary purchase orders giving people under value of their property i dont see why government cant do teh same with services.In some countries a government would walk in and shoot the owners and take ownership so i dont think a comulsary purchase seems to bad once you weigh up alternatives :D

or we could all just march down to london and torch the houses of parliament with teh lot locked inside and start a fresh :D

We would have to march down, trying to get there on public transport would be far too expensive and we wouldn't get there on time!

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And if we walked the torches would blow out.
Unless we could hi-jack the one they use for the olympics - that seems to burn forever.

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you know me too well cashy:D

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went up to spugsters for crimbo .. bought my tickets on 3rd November ... cost £17.15 return ... thats with a disabled railcard though ... have been pricing the tickets to go up for easter ... cost £50.15:( a big difference ... cost to preston with a disabled rail pass £5.15 ... had to go to preston a couple of weeks ago ..

anyway re privatise it .. seeing as the taxpayers are paying for all the improvements on the lines .. we might as well have the benefits of the high fares going back into the governments pockets ... for reinvesting in the country .. rather than going into the back pockets of the shareholders of the many companies that are running the trains .. and staying there ..

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A great folly to privatise the railways in the first place.. we were told this would create choice and competition:D...users don't want competition, they just want to buy a ticket to get from A-to-B at a reasonable price.

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how would it damage the economy.it would be keeping money in the country and could be the start of an integrated transport system which would help the economy.

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Because it needs billions of investment, and if you hadn't noticed the readies are in very short supply at the moment and for the foreseeable future, because somebody spent it all:rolleyes:

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The state can't simply grab the railways back.

It would have to buy them off the shareholders.

As was pointed out, many pension funds are invested in former nationalised industries.

How much do you think that would cost, and where do you suggest we get the money from?

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Which Maggie assured us would happen after privatisation.

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yor talkin rubbish they found billions for a high speed train for snobs because nobody else will be able to afford them.Railtrack goes bust with debts of 3.5bn - Telegraph sho0uld have been nationalised as they owe the public purse billions is this a success.it didnt work in america why would it work here AAA credit ratings explained | Business | guardian.co.uk a disgrace nothing short of a dictatorship .i wonder who benefited from these deals as it explains the railways were self sufficiant now we pay billions to private companies which is nothing short of theft.thats why we are short of money:eek:

Ah, bitterness creeping in, the age old 'haves', & 'have not's'.

These high speed trains, (had they succeeded), would still have pulled a third class carriage so that you too could travel in squaller, (standing room only whilst the 1st class carriages are empty, (you just would have stood for a little less time, (see, a win for the working classes))).

They turned out to be no good, had cost too much, causing the company to go bust rather than the Government giving them yet another useless handout.

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thats the trains in london and surrounding areas already:eek: the northern trains are a disgrace as well.what about the countryside thats going to be ripped up and im not bitter about haves and have nots i live quite comfortably:hidewall::Dtrain travel is up 12% last year.you would think they would like to keep encouraging if they were serious about serving the country:confused:

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hard work,and careful planning, living within my means and a bit of this and that:D

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Tick Tock, the clock is ticking;)

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as with gas ,bt , electric.that reminds me norweb lol water as they have declared a drought in the south of england:rolleyes: build more reseviors buy water off us in sunny scotland oh no that costs money dont want to upset the shareholders as we have a monopoly and are free to do as we want;) down wi the peasants down with the british as most british water is owned by foreign shareholders.

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Yep n forgot all the reservoirs they sold off n built houses on.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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£55 million and counting wasted its time for re-nationalise .. #FareFail: Commuters Against Rail Fare Rises ? Together for Transport

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Ya I bet your teeth are glad when your mouth goes to sleep, spewing out so much garbage daily, by the way you never did tell us your gainful mode of employment, we know your not a journalist, you can't spell of use the queens English very well so come on cmon lets now how you pay your hard earned pennies:D

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He probably works for a foreign company, something like that French one that is throwing the long term ill off sickness benefits and onto the dole even though they aren't fit to work and if they were, there are no jobs for them to do anyway.
He's working from the inside to show how little truth there is in the term 'we're all in this together'.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...Dww3iQOAJ8ljag

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You know something, Jay, I've really missed you! :D

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Here you are cmon. (cut & pasted in true cmon style)

Bring Back British Rail | the collective voice of disgruntled rail passengers and disheartened train company employees, calling for a unified national rail network run for people not profit

http://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/...persticker.gif

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SNCF - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia just watched sky news and the french have double decker brand new clean trains.never knew i would say this but i think we should follow the French policy on rail transport.it brings in at least £20 billion after costs .this shows one the real reasons why this country has gone backwards.

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The idea in theory is a good un, In practice doubt if it would work, senior Politicians in this country i believe,are more corrupt these days, than when they decimated our railway system, n Beeching @ company were well corrupt back then.:rolleyes: so dream on.

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vote for the green party and it will come true;):D

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Like i said dream on.;)

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Perhaps we should take a moment to reflect on the golden age of rail when it was last in nationalised hands. 1979, a great year for many things (like flared trousers and Glam rock) but not so for rail. At that time the unions had brought the UK to a striking standstill and the country was by every measure bottom of Europe (below Greece and Portugal).

The problem with the UK rail system is not so much who owns it but the quality of people managing it. East Coast line was nationalised and is run by the government after the previous operator lost so much money they went bust. It has the worst record for punctuality of all the lines. There is no such thing as a profitable railway line in the UK - I believe that every single line (except maybe the Ribble Valley narrow gauge tourist track) loses money every year.

Privatisation cannot work for massively lossmaking industries - it just created a short term cash windfall for the government of the day that was subsequently squandered. Now that cash benefit is long gone we are left with the govt (read taxpayer) or rail users picking up the tab for both subsidy and loss, picking up the job of managing the line if the operator fails.

The Octopus system noted in the original article should have been rolled out 10 years ago when the technology became mainstream. Like unions......paper tickets, cash collectors, and signalmen are all legacy of a bygone age.

Crowding can be easily sorted by flexible time based pricing which the electronic cards system allows. Charge the card once and then just tap it at all the public transport points when you get on and off (system calculates distance traveled and charges accordingly). This can and should be integrated with bus transport, taxis and as here in Singapore even shopping.

To deal with overcrowding here they introduced FREE train travel on all weekday journeys ending by 7.30am, with compensating higher charges for people who want to travel peak time. Loads of people change behaviour for FREE travel - going to gym before work or going for breakfast in the city. Peak travel is thus also fine because half the country travels pre-7.30 so the carriages are less busy. Good for employers too as employees turn up earlier than they otherwise would.

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Can't agree more G. everywhere in the world seams to become more advanced than we are in a lot of departments, but we still hear those cherished words "my members won't stand for it" from some Union boffin on £140,000 a year, or in other words I'm not letting progress get in the way of my nice little earner:rolleyes:

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You are a bit out of date with your pricing there Jay.

Take Arthur Scargill as a shining example of union leadership. Wasn't he awarded a 3 bedroom flat for life in the Barbican, London (his life and his wife's...). That's a £2m job perk - check out Rightmove.co.uk if you don't believe me. To rent that would cost £6,000 a month.

Of course he deserved it because he did such a fantastic job....... His predecessor and his wife got the same.

I wonder, did union leaders teach bankers?

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You could at least have used a smiley's after fantastic job,:rolleyes: I seem to remember the leader of the TUC at the time saying Arthur went into the strike with a big Union and a little house and came out the other side with a small union and a big house;)

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You should feel ashamed , you know very well that Jay can't think for himself, God alone knows why he joined UKIP but, there is no need to make him imagine he has his own opinion.

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your talking rubbish just before they privatized the railways they were in profit the tories spent billions of pounds raised by the railways in modernising the stock and railways.in fact some of eastern and other railways just painted over the British rail carriages and are still in use till this day.the eastern railway is nationalized now as the firm who run it failed.it has brought in £360 million for the taxpayer and spent 30 million for new stock.the same British Rail that received the lowest amount of subsidy in the whole of Europe but had more trains running at over 100MPH than any other country? And the same that delivered a profitable Intercity and NetworkSouthEast by 1994, without a pound needing to be paid out in performance-related season ticket pay-outs that year? And the same that achieved the highest-ever year of investment in recent decades for 1990/91 despite having a subsidy a fraction of what it is today? Do let us know why british rail was brought to a standstill when hadnt had a strike for ten years:confused::confused::confused::confused:A lot of people fail to understand that just before privatisation BR was one of the most efficient railways in the world. By 1990 it has managed to improve itself to such an extent it was possibly the most efficient in Europe, and had massively reduced the burden on both the taxpayer and its own finances.

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never had this under british rail;) BBC News - London Midland rail franchise extended

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Network Rail has £28 Billion of debt. British Rail wasn't allowed any. Perhaps Mr Osborne should send an invoice to the Adam Smith Institute. busting your myth;)

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I'm not saying that rail in the UK is any good now, but I don't have rosy memories of happy customers prior either.

I see that you were happy when it was run by the state, but if it were up to you you would resurrect British Leyland....... As I recall you couldnt even admit they were rubbish. Produced garbage cars that were as poorly designed as they were badly engineered.

At least in my piece I said that it's bad now, and was bad before, and the issue is not ownership but management. On the ownership point there are only a few examples of where govt ownership makes sense. In rail I'm unsure which is best. If you look at state ownership of rail around the world you can see some spectacular examples of it going wrong - like in China for example. In other places it works - Singapore and Taiwan being a couple that spring to mind.

In England I think the UK rail system is massively overpriced for the service they deliver. That's probably the only point we'll ever agree on Stan :)

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**** OFF:rolleyes:

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Its you who talks rubbish no government subsidised industry ever made a profit

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they subsidise the raIlways to a tune of 5 billion a year NOW!! then the companies give it to their shareholders. this is a reason they dont explain. labour or tories dont explain to the public.this adds to the deficit of the UK as it was an income and british rail workers and companies paid the proper tax not like the tax dodging outsource companies these days.the stock was also made in the uk thus keeping more money in the uk .this is proof the tories dont have the good of the country in their thoughts.it just ideology and cash for their hedge fund mates. there is a pressure group working on labour to change this.lets hope they listen.

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Not correct Stan. The infrastructure is all owned by Network Rail which is a not for profit company setup without shareholders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Rail

It runs the railway based on its financial needs alone, and no one makes a penny out of it. Under this structure the govt gets to order it about but doesn't have any direct liability (financial or otherwise).

The rail operators bid to run lines and pay the government for their franchises. As we saw on the East Coast if their projections or promised standards are not met they lose their franchise and the govt takes over.

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the railway companies do. network rail and rail track have paid billions to the private railway companies. is this best for the taxpayer? if any train is late even 2 minutes late they get compensation.Network Rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia so who funds network rail. do the rail companies pay network rail :confused: all the rolling stock they have are all ex British rail locomotives;) its been a massive waste of money.

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The biggest wasters of money were nationalised companies, over financed over manned lost making dinosaurs,

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dont think so jaysay utilities sold off for a pittance more than paid for themselves.all the money stayed in the country the correct tax was paid so the country was put first. the railways were affordable and more than paid for themselves. fact the uk government lost more than a billion pounds in revenue every year. how is that good for the country:confused: how was it over financed:confused: the uk has now the most expensive railways in the world.why/ because of pure greed you cant defend it,if your saying you want things done for the good of the country,you cant defend billions of lost revenue and billions of pounds leaving the country.

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Oh he can defend it, Tory at heart.:D

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I can't defend thousands of workmen standing about with their finger up there arses being paid by a government owned failing industry

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yes the apt name of work men ,now you call them benefit scroungers;) yes the tories the party of high unemployment you cant defend that.all these myths created by the tories were all lies .they all paid their taxes bought houses contributed to the economy.now youve got these outsource companies who put people on zero hour contracts,dodge paying their tax yes thats contributing to society and the economy.you cant defend it.the quicker the country gets self sustainable the better.stop the money leaving britain,companies paying their tax,companies creating sustainable jobs so they can buy their own houses and give them a bit of pride instead of being walked all over by companies giving them zero hours ....

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east coast mainline has got a 94% customer service satisfaction the highest since records began , punctuality the best since records began,national express walked away from this franchise.there has been a 78% decrease in threats to staff because of less complaints the stock was 27 years old yes old British rail trains which were built in Britain in the north west solid stock. not the cheap new trains that are made abroad.it has a tenfold increase in meals sold.now the tories want to franchise it before the next election.its all about ideology not whats best for the British public.This proves there is no argument this is proof nationalisation works integrated system with network rail.

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it also is the most cost effective franchise ,it is 99% self sufficient ,it also has a million more train journeys.the tories are blinkered look at the state of northern rail.they are still using trains from the early nineties .the only solution is nationalisation.

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more proof Privatised rail has meant 'higher fares, older trains and bigger taxpayers' bill' | UK news | The Guardian Privatised rail has meant 'higher fares, older trains and bigger taxpayers' bill' | UK news | The Guardian Privatised rail has meant 'higher fares, older trains and bigger taxpayers' bill' | UK news | The Guardian Privatised rail has meant 'higher fares, older trains and bigger taxpayers' bill' | UK news | The Guardian Privatised rail has meant 'higher fares, older trains and bigger taxpayers' bill' | UK news | The Guardian Privatised rail has meant 'higher fares, older trains and bigger taxpayers' bill' | UK news | The Guardian the worlds most expensive trains.it is costing 4 billion pounds to subsidise private franchises it was only 1 billion in britsh rail not counting the money they got back.the figures of late trains during British rail THEY COUNTED 1 MINUTE AS BEING LATE today they count 10 minutes as being late .there is no argument..

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The only solution is the nut house for nut jobs like you who still live in the dark ages:rolleyes:

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so as a tory do you want what is best for the taxpayer:confused: the tories keep harping on about foreigners coming to Britain,what about stopping foreign governments owning British railway franchises ,bus services ,toll roads,nuclear power stations ,coal fired power stations ,water companies ,electric companies.just pure hypocritical .£640 million back to the taxpayer you and the tories are purely mental.there is no argument.we have the most expensive ,unreliable railways in Europe and you are saying it works:D:D:D:D just shows the tories are really the enemy from within.

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Pray tell me why your beloved Labour government let the railways get in this state in the first place, they had the chance to put it right if it wasn't fit for purpose, didn't hear ya shouting much back then, numpty:rolleyes:

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If you look at railway history - Dr Beeching savaged the railway system into a third of what it was under the direction of McMillan's tory government.

No doubt some 'pruning' was neccessary, but now the wisdom of doing it so savagely it is in doubt.

It looks like Dr Beeching was too hasty after all - Telegraph

"Ernest Marples, Harold Macmillan’s minister of transport, a businessman with rather too many fingers in an ever-meatier road construction pie,"

..also - Beeching had financial interests in a major road haulage company

PS just another illustration of a decision based on personal greed.

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Beeching as i have said before many times was "BIG" in road haulage, so was a perfect choice to decimate our Railway System. FACT, Something i have never once seen our resident Tories comment on.:rolleyes:

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read this carefully they even lied then cecil parkinson played a flanker Channel Tunnel: Road and Rail Links (Hansard, 2 May 1990) if beeching got stopped all our infrastructure would be in place.we would have saved billions.

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As was pointed out to me today at the cricket match, Someone i forgot to mention in the "Rape" of our railway system besides Beeching was the bigger sleazebag Mr Ernest Marples, Financial Scandal, Corruption and Censorship: Part 3 | EcoLogics another un not one of our Tory lap dogs mention. Perhaps its a form of Alzheimers?:rolleyes:

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parliament channel now a full night of beeching and the railways very interesting.

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If your watching the parliament channel your even a sadder case than I thought:rolleyes:

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Oh deary me, there's something desperately wrong in your life if you can put those comments in the same sentence! :eek: You need to get out more, amongst real people, ask Jen (Sugarmouse) if she can get you a complimentary ticket as part of your rehabilitation programme "Help the jaded". ;)

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people complain every things wrong but wont educate themselves to find out why :confused:




















:D:D:D

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No you don't and never have educated yourself, again sad really;)

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so the status quo is going quite well then.highest prices in Europe and subsidised just to give the shareholder a profit you are the purely mental one:D

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The green eyed yellow monster rears its head again;) Envy is a terrible thing C'Mon;)

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A very relevant article in today's guardian, details how rail companies are milking the taxpayer. -

The truth about Richard Branson's Virgin Rail profits | Aditya Chakrabortty | Comment is free | The Guardian

..which links to a study done by Manchester University -

Trades Union Congress - Rail privatisation has failed to deliver on its promises, says report

"The Great Train Robbery - written for the TUC by the Centre for Research on Social-Cultural Change (CRESC) at the University of Manchester - shows that private train companies are heavily dependent upon the public purse to enable them to run services."

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this proof the only way forward is nationalise the railways,ive been reading about the first railway companies. every one declared themselves bankrupt after they built a railway.. just shows our past is our future.:confused:

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Things like business have moved on a tad since the bad old days, state owned never works it costs the tax payer too much money, but somebody like you with little green eyes will never see that

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no the proof is there its in the news its in the papers that privatisation cost the taxpayer £30 billion more than when it was nationalised you cant argue the figures .network rail are £30 billion in the red as well. you are nuts jaysay you cant argue the only ones who have made money are people like branson who have made billions which has put Britain in more debt. he laughed all the way to the bank.

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You want to stop reading the Guardian you'll go blind;)

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well how come the most capitalised country in the world still runs a railway as a nationalized public service yes the u.s.of.a

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Have you much experience of rail travel in the USA other than the main East Coast lines?

The HSE would close it down in a heartbeat, stops without platforms, rails running down the centre of the main streets, road/rail crossings without barriers - that information is first hand on just a few trips I made - Yes some very spectacular journeys but they are in the minority.

Did you ever attempt to find out what the cost of the American railways are to the government?

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The American government make a hefty profit. the U.S.A. is a different culture to this country due to the high population and corporate lobbyists close to the American government.

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Thats fine, but was not his question,:rolleyes:His question was cost of railways to em.

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as every country in the world needs a transport system to move its population.in America every penny gets put back into the system in this country billions are given to the shareholder. the privatised railways has increased costs to the British taxpayer billions of pounds .so in the long run it does pay to have a nationalized railway.it is more profitable in America that it is in Britain. they put the money back in by building metros and light railways thus decreasing traffic on the roads as major cities are running out of space on their highways.

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Cashy, I think your advice about arguing with idiots is so very appropriate with him:D

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Barrie in his case you'd be insulting idiots;);)

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Did consider "moronic cretin", but decided that would be well beyond him:rolleyes:

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well here you go .. go and have a look at the steam engines tomorrow and sunday at the east lancs railway ...

End of Steam Festival | The East Lancashire Railway

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So let's humour your delusion, the Railways are re-nationalised, now what percentage of the "profits" do you think would truly be reinvested in the rail system & not squandered elsewhere to plug other haemorrhaging public services in your utopian socialist state?

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well in the eastern line which is already nationalised can spend money replacing old British rail stock which the privatised railway company was still using its a step forward. so if the government let me bid for the franchise for I say £45 million with no proof I had the money but they subsidized the franchise for £ 45 million then the bank let me borrow money on the back of the subsidy . I then take all the profits pay the shareholders then warn the government the franchise was going bankrupt. they then pump more money into the franchise, costing the taxpayers more. official figures state it has cost £25 billion more to run the railways than when it was nationalized. i just cant see the logic:confused: it would decrease fares by 20% BBC News - Why not... nationalise the railways? this link gets near the truth:mosher:

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Why don't you give it a rest, if you like the communist lifestyle go and live in China, their way of life should suit you to a tee, but don't get too lippy or your family will be getting a bill for the bullet that shuts you up;)

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cmon bring the debate on. ive got the facts and figures .you get yours and lets see who saves the most money for the taxpayer ..

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As Cashy states - " Do not argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

Never seen you post anything like a debatable question, response or statement, only plagiarism, cut & paste and occasional links to dubious sources.

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Facts an d figures:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:The Guardian is as bent and twisted as you are:D

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a small reminder that you can join the campaign News | Bring Back British Rail

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Why would we want to bring back a debt ridden dinosaur, which feeds on taxpayers money and lots of it;)

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your nuts ,it has cost at least yes at least £30 billion more more of taxpayers money more to run the railways privatised than it was nationalized it has increased cost 1000% since the railways were privatized and what did we get less carriages and the highest train prices in Europe. it has been a failure for the taxpayer you can be thick sometimes. even tories have admitted it look at the billions they spent on new buses in London. look at the eastern line its brought £620 million for the taxpayer and even replaced old stock from the old British rail that the private firms painted over.

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ohhh look there goes another fare rise 4.1 %. they are trying to price the working class off the trains.