Europe as it is
 

Re: Europe as it is
 

Funny:D ... but true.:mad: I'm glad that I'm not the only one who refuses to buy into the warm, fuzzy, poliitcally correct new Germany. Marechal Foch had it right ... and, by the way, General Arthur Currie ... the krauts should never have been allowed off the canvas in '18. But the yanks got their way ... more or less ... and what should have been a crushing victory turned into a halftime break. And all those countries which were, within living memeory, brutalized by the Germans are now kissing kraut ass.

It's better than kissing Frog arse

Re: Europe as it is
 

Personally, I would prefer not to have to kiss either of their arses...or the yanks...but that seems beyond the capabilities of our politicians on both sides.

Re: Europe as it is
 

Spot on Wyn, mind you 95% of us don't give a stuff about Europe, but Retlaws right Germany are now doing what they failed to achieve in two world wars, rule Europe, I suppose the only difference is they aren't Goose Stepping down White Hall............................Yet:mad:

Re: Europe as it is
 

Agree with both you & Wyn Neither the Germans or French have been able to defeat us in war since the Middle Ages but are now getting closer to their goal by political means

Re: Europe as it is
 

And the flaming fifth columnist in this country:rolleyes:

Re: Europe as it is
 

Only one of them:eek: Not much of a column is it? He must be one busy guy;):D

Re: Europe as it is
 

There are 650 of um at least Eric, less a few who have seen sense:rolleyes:

Re: Europe as it is
 

Ah ... the guys in Westminster:D Know what you mean; we got a whole bunch in Ottawa.:mad:

Re: Europe as it is
 

Ya seems catching world wide these days:rolleyes:

Re: Europe as it is
 

67 years of peace in Europe (apart from the Balkans) - the longest period ever. Isn't that worth something? One of the greatest features of my life is never having to fight any war or do any form of military service. Most of us are Germans anyway - where do people think the Angles and the Saxons came from?

Re: Europe as it is
 

Well the Krauts failed with two attempts to rule Europe by means of war, now they've found an easier way, just let people like Blair Brown and Cameron, run the white flag up, and give it to um on a plate;)

Re: Europe as it is
 

OMG, a real patriot, yes like you I didn't have to fight, why? because our parents/grandparents fought.

It is worth nothing if we don't maintain their standards and be prepared to fight, not for foreign wars, but against the way our freedom is being stolen in Brussels.

Re: Europe as it is
 

First point is an excellent one. To put it bluntly, I didn't have to get shot and gassed 'caused my grandad did it for me.

And it seems as if someone has forgotten about the Cold War. Not too much shooting going on; but there was a Major Mexican standoff happening, and we all know, or, at least, those who lived through it know, how close to extinction we were .... particularly in those thirteen days in October in '62. And it's not hard to figure out why the krauts have been quiet for '67 years ... They've been licking their wounds, and taking yank handouts so that they could get their economy booming again to the point where they could use economic muscle to do what they could not do militarily. It's not hard to figure out that the EU is little more than a front for German control of Europe. The French will probably tag along with them, looking to share the power. (A lot like the leader of your Lib-Dems;), eh.)

And let's not forget that while Europe has been peaceful for a while ... a peace of exhaustion, rather than a new commitment to peaceful co-existance ... the world hasn't been all that calm. And blame for much of this can be laid at Germany's door .... For example, it is a valid and defensible argument that if there had been no Third Reich, there would have been no Israel.

Re: Europe as it is
 

Perhaps, before you make blunt observations about the genetic makeup of Britons you should do a little research. Seems like we are more neolithic than Germanic. Modern Germans (the ones without jackboots and neat looking uniforms, and great leather coats:rolleyes:) possibly have the same ancestors.

British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says

Re: Europe as it is
 

I'm quite prepared to slag the Germans as much as any true Brit, (in fact living here I think gives me a more valid & in depth insight into the Germanic mentality) but to say they are responsible for Israel I find difficult to countenance.

The resettling of the Jewish people has been ongoing since the late 1800's but it was really only at the end of WWII that the focus was intensified. Jewish refugees & survivors of the Holocaust needed a focal point & a place to define as their own, it was he British who controlled Palestine & they then divided & designated the land for the use of the Jewish people, ratified by the UN.

BBC NEWS


Founding of the State of Israel

Re: Europe as it is
 

So that makes me a true Brit, seeing as me all my male ancestors had carrot tops, and so did my offspring.
I think Blue eyes is also part of it as well.

Re: Europe as it is
 

My point is that there would have been no Jewish exodus from a devastated Europe if the Third Reich had not been responsible for that devastation, and for the murder of 6 million Jews. European Jewery would have been more than happy to stay in countries they had lived in for centuries, and in which they had established themselve, rather than facing the life of an armed pioneer, in a hostile land, surrounded by enemies. With no Third Reich there would, possibly, be a token Jewish settlement in the Middle East. But nothing like the modern State of Israel.

Re: Europe as it is
 

I would still question that assumption Eric, the Jews have been persecuted & ostracised throughout the ages by other nationalities & religions over hundreds of years. And as such have always been moving or settling temporarily but having to constantly be looking over their collective shoulders for the next set of provocations.

Granted Germanys role in the 30's & 40's exacerbated the situation & accelerated the forced exodus/repatriation of the Jewish peoples, at least those who could & did with a great many going to the States. A Jewish Homeland already existed in Palestine at this time going back to about 1917 were some powers were seconded to the Israelis under a British mandate upheld by the UN & had been increasing in population numbers due to other pogroms long before Germanys actions.

Furthermore the New State of Israel using the 1950 law of return actively encouraged Jews from all over the word to return/settle in their own homeland. So even after wars end & the defeat of National socialism, the Holocaust many Jews were returning to Israel to avoid a new wave of persecution brought about by the Soviets rule throughout Eastern Europe & Russia itself.

And that is why we have the modern day state of Israel, as it is & where it is today. The Germans can be blamed for a lot of things, but modern day Israel is a conglomerate of circumstances & conditions.

Re: Europe as it is
 

We are all aware ... those of us who think, anyway;) ... of the history of anti-semitism in Europe. And it is not surprising that Zionism became popular among many Jews. But Zionists always faced the problem of trying to attract Jews to migrate to a Jewish homeland in Israel. U.S. jews in particular, and those in the more enlightened parts of Europe ... Weimar Republic comes to mind ... were quite happy to donate large sums of cash, but had no interest in moving. Chaim Weizmann, whose development of a process to produce acetone through bacterial fermentation was of immense value to the allied war effort, and Lord Balfour, along with Churchill, who was always a friend to the Jews, engineered the Balfour Declaration. However, it was not until the early 40s that the idea of a Jewish state in Israel took off. And it should not be too difficult to figure out why this was so. The timing was not accidental. Everything that happened in the Middle East after 1948 can be traced to the effects of German militarism ... kriegslustig. If there had been no holocaust, the State of Israel, as it exists today, would not have developed.

In the twentieth century, Germany started (and lost) two world wars. We are still suffering the effects of the major dislocations that arose from those conflicts. The modern geo-political map, and the American military-industrial complex, would not exist as they do today had it not been for the Third Reich. The German aim was to control Europe. And it looks as if that control is now within their grasp.

Re: Europe as it is
 

We could bat this back & forward indefinitely, I'll agree that the German involvement accelerated the situation, but I can't agree that it's the only reason that Israel is what it is today. There are so many other contributing factors to consider, both pre war & post war ancient history & modern history that quantify the harassment, persecution & tribulations of the Jewish people (without even going back over religious bigotry & hatred) thereby making them what they are today.

But I'll concur with your last two sentences completely. :)

Re: Europe as it is
 

We British were instrumental in the formation of a Jewish State in Palestine by the 1917 Balfour Declaration which declared that the British favored a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
The Saudis, and no doubt, some, if not all other Arab Nations still criticise our part in the creation of Israel