Time to Go Plastic
 

I know a number of you reading this may not ever be effected by this and the sound of having your half of mild or pint of tetleys best being served into a plastic glass would be sacrilidge...... However with this in mind would people have the same view if their son or daughter or family member returned home from a night out with facial stitches due to a glassing incident.

I have now campaigned for this for 2 years across Lancashire to introduce a glass ban on the night time economy for venues trading past 23.00pm.

I have written a proposal which has been sent to our local MP Mr Graham Jones and which has also now been used as a mandate for the Lancashire Police Commisioner up for Election in October.

I know a number of you will be un affected by this however in this weeks Accrington Observer the Landlord of the Cross Guns pub in church was subjected to a glassing for simply asking a customer not to take a glass outside due to his licensing laws

Now i know some people will obviously use this as a target to fire some comedy gold however i think its now time that we got as much support for this as possible as alone in Hyndburn over the last year their has been well over 10 glassing incidents.

As much as people may think this is a national problem not just a local problem, but when is enough enough and i am sure youll agree if one of your relations turned up looking like they had been in a car accident through a glassing or bottling that we would all be the first to be outraged.

Think its time for all landlords across the country to issue duty of care to all members of public that patronise their venues irrespective of the extra cost which is actually down to pence

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The correct resolution would of course be for the justice system to do it's job and punish people severely for 'glassing'. As this won't be an option plastic glasses is the only way to go

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As long as my beer is well kept I have no preference.

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I introduced Plastic Glasses and Plastic Bottles and where not available we either de canter the bottle or offer and Alu Can alternative, we introduced this on our own initiative and not through an attack in the venue, However its now becoming very worrying scenario that its going to be the actions of after a fatal attack that these changes come into place.

I am hoping that with the proposal that has been laid out that a potential trial run can be held in Accrington and once successful be introduced through out the country.

One of the main arguments for landlords is cost and availability of PET bottles rather than glass as PET are around £5.00 dearer per case, however their are 3 ways of dealing with this, Stay with the glass version and de canter, Divide the extra by the case and add on to the retail price or Find a Alu can alternative

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That should be the answer- understand were yer coming from Leon, But its using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut in my view. Making the majority of responsible people suffer, cos no-one has the balls to tackle the real issue.:(

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I think it depends on the time and location. I never go out at night but enjoy going to my local after work and on Saturday and Sunday afternoon. I would hate to drink from a plastic glass and would take exception to it. But in town and city centre pubs at night I think it would solve a lot of problems.

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I've been to late night venues locally, and sad to say, I think it would be a good move.

I wish you well with your campaign.

It'll probably save a lot of misery for some innocent people, out trying to have a good night.

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Much as I prefer glass, to plastic 'glasses', they aren't THAT bad. I think it's a good idea. I agree, if the dullards that use glasses/glass bottles as their weapon were sufficiently punished, it may curb the crimes, but I think that's unlikely.
Also, it's sad that old pubs are suffering because of idiots-plastic glasses are fine in dodgy nightclubs, but at my local I can't imagine old Jimmy sitting at the bar with a plastic beaker instead of a tankard, or at least whilst being happy about it!

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Thats the real problem to me sugermouse, most people give in to these louts.its governments job to see these scum are punished, if they can't or won't then people should remember,come the time.

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It makes me worry what next. Are the pavements to be padded and our windows all made from pirex...
I don't know. Even when we still hung folk, plenty of people were criminals. Then again we weren't so adept at catching them back then......
I go to at least two festivals a year and have to admit I appreciate the plastic 'glasses' at those types of events. There will ALWAYS be the resident knob-end in a crowd. And, accidents happen, I feel much happier with a plastic cup in my hand in case I get knocked into..

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

Leon I worked in the night club industry over 30 years ago and on some nights we used plastic glasses even then, I think there is a genuine case for plastic glasses in town centre establishments, but by the same yard stick do they still allow customers to drink out of bottles and if so are they plastic too. I would think the incident in with the landlord is an isolated incident I wouldn't like to see plastic glasses in say my local, but there may come a time when it will come into force, but people like yourself can preempt it by, if you already don't, doing it yourselves.

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The day they introduce plastic drinking receptacles in the nice quiet Club where I drink will be the last time I renew my membership.
Nothing better than sitting on a bar stool drinking from a pint glass with a handle on it.

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It would be a shame if the majority of law abiding legal drinkers were forced by an unruly minority to have to sup from plastic tumblers, we are after all supposed to be a civilised society, the type of crime being described isn't pretty and I would imagine it is something that could happen to almost any of us when the violent among us decide to use a glass as a weapon and that is what it becomes when used in this manner.
So yes, the law should be used as a deterrent against these people but, knowing how toothless our law has become I would think that the road leading to us all having to drink from these disgusting plastic replacements will be inevitable.
:(

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

would the type of individual that uses "a weapon", not just replace the weapon? and where do we draw the line?
human nature to fight, alcohol fuels anger and impairs judgement, pool cues,bar stools, tables, wall fixtures among many other things have been used as weapons.

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Think your right, well I know your right, I've been in the middle of it when its gone off, stools pool cues even tables are used, so glasses are just another weapon, but with nastier outward effects on a victim. Think your right about sitting at the bar, although I'm unable to do that anymore I would hate, no even cringe at the thought of holding a plastic glass full of my favourite tipple

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Back to a pewter tankard imho, nice to drink from and doesn't splinter etc like glass.

I agree that the real solution should be simply, glass someone and you are inside for a long time

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Now that is spot on.

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Of course they could, but as the thread starter is campaigning against glasses in pubs I answered discussing glasses, a beer mat or a ball point pen could also be used as weapons in the wrong hands.
:rolleyes:

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

"glassing" someone, would usually be charged as section 18, but then with "deals" this would be reduced to section 20, to save money on trials and such like

ie if you go guilty, (irrelevant if you are or not) you get a lesser sentence.

from experience, i was once in this position
was charged with "wounding with the intent to cause grevious bodily harm" section 18

it was reduced to section 20, "unlawful and malicious wounding"

at the time, i was advised to go not guilty from my brief, as it was an "over reaction in self defence"

i was told if found guilty, after going not guilty, minimum 5 years

however if i plead guilty, then the judge would accept that it was an over reaction in self defence, and give me a non custodial sentence, at the time i had 3 young children, and it was a no brainer, i took the plea deal.

i dont believe justice was served that day, justice didnt even come into it, bureaucracy, and costs did

before people "judge me" again, this was quite some time ago, and i was attacked in "my own home, and was defending my family", one of "the victims" was a convicted armed robber

i should have had the courage to go all the way and plead not guilty, however the potential "cost" was to high, and i took the cowards way out.

this wasnt a ramble, well may have been to some, but to try and give an insight into how "the justice" system works or doesnt work,

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

so its not a valid point, but a thread wander
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Why don't pubs & clubs simply stop selling lager? This is simply fizzy poison that does no good whatsoever - especially to one's cerebal matter. In fact, the only people who drink this stuff are those who are brain damaged or those who are about to be. Sell good real ales only and you won't attract the intellectually challenged who go round smashing glasses in other's faces. Everyone can therefore have a good pint in peace.

PS...the same goes for alcopops. The only fit purpose for this is as a toilet bowl cleaner.

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From my way of thinking if a persons home is invaded for a purpose of either burglary or doing harm then the household should be able to use as much force as he or she wants especially if children are involved, people who enter your home unlawfully should have no rights what so ever, but we all know that isn't the cast although more people are having any charges drop after home invasion, to me its simple if your somewhere for illegal purposes then there should be no get out close, you get what you deserve

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i agree with you john, however the laws, is an ass, and even offenders have rights,

but until you are in that situation, you dont know what you would do.
take the chance that 12 people feel the same way, or through use of legal argument they say "you went too far", which in my case what was said

2 of them, 1 of me, and they turned up to my doorwith the sole intention of violence.

but had the cheek, on their statements to say, direct quote "he was like a man possessed, i was in fear of my life"

i did what any other normal person would do, but was punished for it

apparantley, i was only charged because " i didnt report it, and they did"
the custody sergeant told me that

but that is a complete thread wander and going way of subject, if we ever get you down to the railway, maybe i will share the full story over a pint (out of a plastic glass lol)

on another serious point, i notice in the other thread you said you struggle getting down to the railway for a drink with yer pals on a saturday

i have a picasso, and could fit a wheelchair, and oxygen in, if you ever require a trip down for an hour, more than willing to assist

darren

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

Your right the law is a complete ass, but shows up just what cowards these scumbags really are when they get their just deserts instead of the other way round and then go running to the law to complain about you. Many thanks for the offer of a lift but I was actually talking in past tense, but as you'll find I often fall over my own tongue (keyboard):D I'm not really fit enough to make the trip these days, but many thanks for the offer

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

the offer is there and genuine fella, if you ever feel up to it

last bit on the subject, as part of the "deal", i said i would agree, but on the condition that no compensation to "the victims" be made, the judge actually said in court, it would be like "rubbing salt in the wound" if they were awarded any, the primary motive for their reporting it i believe.

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One thing in life I hate is people like that run away crying when they get more than they bargained far and have the brassed neck cheek crying the poor wounded soldier.

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in this, we are of the same opinion sir!:D

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In my book right is right and wrong is wrong and it can't be dressed up any other way;)

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How? Is my answering what the thread starter said, a thread wander?

How? Is you're abysmal attempt to make it seem as if what I said is not on thread supposed to make me feel as if I have done something wrong? I think you should end your fascination with myself, stop trying to score points You aren't very good and actually concentrate on how your life could be so much better if you didn't need to take your bitterness out on someone...



anyone, in this case it just happens to be me, well bless, I forgive you, so long as you really, really try to fit in with society, any society, whether it's AccyWeb or the actual World at large, (shame you got such a sentence for being just an ordinary citizen, but is mentioning it on the WWW the best way to get over it?).
:(

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

it was in response to your post that was in some way trying to rebut my own, or why quote and comment

and the thread wander i implied, was that of my own because i had steered away from glasses and introduced other weapons, or was that not your point?

as for the fascination, you quoted me, you addressed me!

as for getting over it, it was over 15 years ago, got over it long ago!

something i am neither proud of or ashamed, i was merely introducing a view to the justice system from first hand knowledge, i wasnt venting my spleen in the hope of relieving myself of the burden

chin up old chap, one day you may read one of my posts subjectively, or better still, ignore me completely

good day sir

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

I would love to wish you a good day, I would love to read one of your posts that actually addressed what is being discussed, however, ignore you, good heavens no, I couldn't possibly ignore you, I was dragged up to be polite in comparison to some, so it would be the height of ignorance to treat you in a similar manner to how you treat me.
:)

P.S. I'm sure this thread is important to the starter, why not just send me a few obscene P.M.'s that I can answer rather than ruin his thread?

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

...... I'm confused by this.
The post, and the apostrophe...But I don't want to digress , I'm new I will get into trouble!;)

It would probably have to be JUST bitter lol. No top shelf either! :)

I love alcopops . I wish I didn't, they make you fat.

I agree (threadjack).

What effect would plastic glasses have on the environemnt? I suppose it would depend on what TYPE of plastic they were made of. Reusable ones would be a good idea rather than the ones that just get chucked in the bin? Or the sorts of plastic that are readily recyclable...I don't know enough about this. I will have to stick my nose in some research.

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

Hyndburn have just widened the category of plastic items you can now recycle, so suspect these will be OK.

I think it is an excellent move for some of the late opening night clubs, and will certainly save some injuries ... I know of two young men who suffered many stitches and the loss of an eye due to this. One unprovoked, and the other got in the way of a random flying missile.. :(

Up to every Manager/Owner to decide really. It does give you an indication which establishments to avoid though .. ;)

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So if they are changing all the glasses to plastic will they be changing all the bottled beer to plastic too ?
they make great weapons too and we have seen them thrown in the railway before now.

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Was that Cashy or Less?

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I experienced my first plastic 'glass' last night, in the Nags Head, the 'glasses' weren't what i expected and where quite nice actually

so yeah, for safetys sake bring then into every pub

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There's some lovely wine 'glass' ones.

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Is that a sober analysis?:D

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Hahaha .. very quick. :D

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Neither, it was some other drunk, throwing not just a bottle but a really big tantrum at his family and friends, the randomly thrown bottle landed at Micks feet, his feet (the drunks) didn't touch the ground when the landlord ran over and turfed him out, we were treated to an extra pint each as an apology for the incident.

It was however some years ago now, haven't seen anything similar when I've been in since.
:)

Re: Time to Go Plastic
 

As I said earlier in the thread Kate we used plastics over 30 years ago at Martholme Grange on disco nights, the reason being that so many glasses were broken and strewn all over the place after closing along with bottles, although I can't remember a glassing. Skinner decided to go plastic and bottles were no longer allowed to be handed out, all drinks were dispensed in plastic glasses, with a result that breakages were down overall by 90%

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Yeh, Jaysay, was definitely an experience doing 'The Crunch, Crunch' on that dance floor... :D

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Ya maybe I came to your rescue, I was always quick to aide a damsel in distress ( broken high heel on smashed glasses):D

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Why 11pm? The last 4 glassing incidents in Hyndburn happened at around 8.30pm.

Is a can not as dangerous as a bottle? Or at least could be used as very deadly weapon.

The "plastic" bottles & glasses would add around £3500 per year to myself. You say to pass the additional cost on to the customers. I'm sure that they would all welcome that kind of increase, especially in these hard times.

The main reason that the Nags Head has moved to these items, is that, the last 4 glassing incidents in Hyndburn happened in their pub 3 weeks ago.

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kin ell i didn't know that Jay, i don't get out much ;)

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Unfortunately true. A very vicious attack. But, like I said earlier, the incident happened about 8.30pm.

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it was a wise move to change them then, maybe it should have been done after the first incident though

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All 4 were the same incident. 4 people - 1 big fight.

Anyway. Lets not wander too much.

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do you think they'll eventually make it the law to change everything to plastic in pubs then?

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I reckon its a knocking bet, The animals have been given free reign fer too long now,no real deterrent, so little choice i think.

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Same, just used some I was given this weekend.

Mainly beause, in my case, I keep accidentally dropping them.

Doesn't feel like plastic,

Nice and cold, cool to the touch, and ice even clinks in therm.

Much bettter than ones you'd occasionally see in the past.

Best thing?

Not the best weapon of choice if you're looking to take someone's eye out, or scar someone for life.

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I do lots of motorcycle rallies and all of those use plastic, at the better ones the glasses are really good quite thick plastic and good quality after a few beers hard to tell the differance between them and glass and they don't affect the taste, you can easilly carry 4 pints back to the table, but some places still use cheep ones where it's not easy to carry one pint and two is nye on impossible and they do sometimes affect the taste. So as far as i'm concerned if the eatablishment uses decent plastic pots i have no problem. :D

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Sadly its the other way round these days Shaz:(

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Ya but whats the chances of that Alan, especially in town centre establishments, which, lets face it, only open at weekends:rolleyes:

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The proposal is based on a trial scheme to be held in Accrington town centre venues, the idea was to trial this after the hours of eleven at first not to disrupt the venues on the outskirts of towns were incidents are few and far between, having 400 people converse across 9 town centre venues increases the possibility of an attack than a pub that maybe on the outskirts with 100 people plus in them, the answer over Alu cans is that most venues sell red stripe and it's served on a can yes a can could be used as a weapon but you could also say being poked in the eye with a straw or plastic bottle could be dangerous, the topic is started that you are at far greater risk of facial injuries and death if your hit in a main artery in the neck on a glassing incident.

Re the cost I think that an extra 20p on a bottle is not going to break the bank when by next year the minimum price per unit of alcohol is going to be 50p and that will make the pub and club trade far more cheaper as it only relates to supermarkets not our trade, and the end of the day you say it will cost you 3500 per year extra I have saved 2000 on my insurance being plastic and also as a venue operator we have our right to duty if care for all our patrons and no one wants a front page headline that an individual was attacked with a glass bottle in the town as it makes front page news and can tarnish a business reputation for a single incident.

My point is this look at page 3 of the observer this week there are four incidents in venues in the area hardly telling the masses that Hynburn is safe, the argument could be every town has that , which is true but isn't it time now to get hold of this now before someone in a town centre is seriously hurt then we have the same people that argue against plastic suddenly going something should of been done.

I'm not looking for a knighthood or on a witch hunt, I'm saying the probability of an incident from a fatal nature grows ever closer with today's societys mixed with drink and drugs and people do see the red mist and make that decision that can lose people two lives their own and their victims.

If you asked Adam rogers family would they of wanted the proceedures in place in educating venues and campaigning for safer nights out and that to be in place before their sons death and maybe things would have turned out differently I'm not saying that there was a clear cut chance what happened wouldn't of happened but if the measures are in place then the risk is reduced.

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Surely that's only in Scotland? No date set for legislation in England/Wales and not before 2014 at the earliest.

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I don't mind plastic glasses but the glasses would have to be thicker than the one I drank out of latey. Too squashy. End up with beer all over place if not careful :-)

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Ya Restless but you can bet your bottom dollar that the glasses introduced would be cheap and nasty, or another 10p on a pint ;)

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Just been notified of this today not sure whether it follows on from my email from last week however good to get the ball rolling however think that the figures need to based from 2011 to 2012 instead of 2008-2009 and 2009-2010.

If there was a problem back then surely shouldnt the initiative to be continue with this and not leave it for two years ?

Graham Jones MP: Lets make a night out safer...

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If this was a sucess when it was 2009/10 why was it not followed up:confused:

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Good, that it has our M.P.'s support.

:)

It is a problem that's got worse over recent years, and needs addressing.

It might stop those many locals, travelling to what they think are safer places for a night out, stay in Accy.

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as usual its a case of the minority spoiling it for the majority , i dont wanna drink out of a plastic pint glass and i dont wanna be told i have to , but i dont want my son or daughter to be permanently scarred or blinded because of some idiot

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Ya Chaz its a bit like Hobson's Choice really, the though of drinking a pint out of a plastic glass abhors me, but like you say you don't want your kids being scared, I have a granddaughter who is out down town every weekend, I hate anything to happen to her

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Scared or Scarred?I assume both :)

My friend has a permanent scar on his forehead, for trying to intervene in a scrap, to stop somebody getting hurt :/

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You'd think so if you'd been in the middle of it when it went off:rolleyes:

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Another Glassing incident in the Telegraph two nights ago in Rios in Whalley the lad was stood in the place and a glasss was thrown and hit him smack bang in the eye and shattered over his eye, The lads scarred for life now and possibly will have eye sight problems all from a night out

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Theres always been glassings Leon, O.K. perhaps more so these days, But surely it all comes back to no real deterrent?