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Don't they ever learn...yet another expense scandal is breaking that they claim 'is within the rules' but so against 'the spirit of the rules'

Pigs feeding at the trough :mad:

If anyone on benefits were caught doing this they'd end up in pokey

I will never a long as I live put my X against any of the major political parties candidates again. I'm sick to the back teeth of the sleazebags that infest our political system, the double standards, the lies, the misinformation and the false promises. So many of our politicians behave like third world dictators

Expenses scandal: 27 MPs let one home and claim for another - Telegraph

Shadow health minister Andy Burnham caught up in new expenses row | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk

Rent-Swapper MacShame Exposed - Guy Fawkes' blog

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...and the Speaker tried to prevent the publication of the identities of MPs involved in this nice little earner. Disgraceful. I wonder if Accyweb members of the Conservative and Labour parties will come on here and give their opinions on this?

Ssshhh...I can hear the sound of a pin dropping. ;)

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The simple fact is, and it is a difficult one for most taxpayers to swallow, that MPs aren't paid enough. I'll say that again, they aren't paid enough.

Since the 1980s MPs have been scared to award themselves pay rises which are commensurate with the job they are doing and in line with other high level public and private sector jobs. This was due to an expected backlash from taxpayers.

Therefore, as far as I can see, the expenses system was used to 'top-up' MPs salaries to a level which they should have been at if they had kept in line with other occupations during the past 30 years.

The answer to this is for MPs to be on a salary which is at the same level as other occupations. However, MPs are afraid to do this due to voter outrage. Perhaps the voters have to be a bit more mature about their attitudes to MPs.

The simple fact is that to attract the best people you have to pay the best money. I know the public like to belittle MPs but some of them are highly qualified people who are lawyers, businessmen etc in the wider world. They should be rewarded to this level in order to get the best.

People could also argue that it should be a vocation, but that is an idealist point of view. Look at the current lot. We are getting either career politicians (who have one eye on a lucrative career post-Westminster) or rich Tory boys with trust funds. We need to be attracting heads of business, headmasters, doctors, lawyers into Parliament but why should they come if the financial recompence isn't there?

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So a salary of £60,000 +, plus generous (legitimate) expenses, plus the sort of pension fund most of us can only dream of isn't enough? Not only that, their work load has actually gone down over the years as they hand more and more of our sovereign powers over to the corrupt, unaccountable EU that you love so much.

Nice try at a wind-up but I'm not biting!

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One must also take into account the additional earnings as "Advisors" or similar which many have - allegedely our own MP rakes in £10,000 per annum as some sort of advisor, and he is low down the scale.
Also, if people in business performed to the same standards - such as screwing the economy and flogging off our gold reserves, do you think they would still retain the same position - No, they would have been sacked, and not all with a gold plated pension.

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Many Headmasters get paid more that £100,000 with some doctors getting near to £200,000.

I agree it is more than most of us can ever dream of. But so is the salary of those I've stated plus those of business people and lawyers. There should be an incentive for high-ranking professionals with a working knowledge of health, business, law and education to enter parliament.

£60,000 is a lot of money but, to state the obvious, it is a precarious position where for some it is only really guaranteed for 4 or 5 years, excluding safe seats. Why should a Headmaster step down from a relatively safe job and career progression, then take a pay cut, for what could only be four years?

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Strange then, that there's never any shortage of candidates, including many from lucrative jobs, whenever an election (or bye-election) rolls around. The fact is that £60,000 is only the basic salary and MPs can bump up their dosh by far more than this. As for the "precariousness" of their position, there's always some well-paid job on some committee, quango or other talking shop at the end of a parliamentary career...not to mention the ultimate prize - a seat on the EU gravy train which opens the floodgates to a life of well-padded luxury and considerable financial rewards at the expense of the poor old taxpayer. Just ask the Welsh windbag and his wife! ;)

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As wel las the money they get as an MP they are frequently 'employed'(if that is the right word) in a consultancy capacity...they can employ their wives and families....they need to live in the real world, they need to know the difficulties that their constituents face every single day.

Doctors and headmasters actually contribute to the fabric of society........I'm not really convinced that MP's do.

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Rubbish, High ranking professionals earn good money and earn it. How the hell can yeh call n M.P. one of those? What rank or degree do yeh need to be n M.P.? Joe Bloggs off the street can be one,if hes got political leanings, He certainly cannot just become a High Ranking Professional.:rolleyes:

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we require so called "high ranking professionals" to run the country, if we want it run as a business, but what about if we want it run as a country, a place where we all want to live work and play?

would mps not serve their constituents better if they didnt get paid, and only received "out of pocket expenses", if you care about something and you believe in it strongly enough, would you not do it for free, as some of you know i ran a football club for 8 years, for free, for the love of it, for the joy it gave me and others. do others not do charitable work for free because they believe in the cause, are these not the kind of people that we want representing us, rather than career politicians?

i cant remember the last time i saw a politician who had "passion", they are all scared of upsetting someone and losing their "job", so take the job away in the first place, in this day and age we could have "video parliament" no need to have everyone in one place, it could be done in the evenings, allowing people to work, i realise cabinet members do have a little more work to do, but not many of them compared to how many mps we have.

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Rather you than me. Jaysay has said several times on Accyweb that if you pay peanuts you only get monkeys.

I've said many times before that I wouldn't fancy being an MP due to the work involved and having seen the pace of Graham's life since he became the Hyndburn member that's pretty much sealed it for me. Your life is even less your own than as a Councillor and unless you live in London to start with it is a huge upheaval spending so much time away from your family. £60k+ sounds like a fortune and compared to most in the North West it is but even those at the top level don't get the massive perks that the general public perceive.

Personally speaking, I was glad when the expenses scandal broke because there were those who were milking the system for all that they could get and were caught red-handed. It made national politics accountable for the first time once the public started asking where their money was going and cleaned up a system open to abuse. If some MPs are still trying to get more out than they should then they really only have themselves to blame once they're caught out.

Local politics has undergone the same reformation and if you look at the expenses claims being made by certain Councillors over the years you can see who is only taking what they are due and those 'who have to live'.

Members' Allowances

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Really, try telling that to the Infantryman patrolling in Nar-e-saraj & living in a mud hut compound.

Salary

As you will no doubt be aware, there is a rank system in operation within the British Army and, as such, pay scales often go along with that ranking. Other factors include your length of service and what specific specialities you pick up too.

• New recruits in training earn around £13,000 a year, for the duration of their training

• Privates can look to earn anything from £15,000 to £18,000 a year, rising up to around £19-20,000 on first promotion to Lance Corporal.

• Higher ranks go on an incremental scale, with senior ranks earning up to £45,000 per annum.

Of course, these figures are rough guides only and can change dependent on the factors already mentioned above.

Responsibilities

The work of an infantry soldier is varied depending on where they are day-to-day, but basic duties can include:

• If on base, keeping fitness levels up and attending briefings, lectures and other training as required
• Keeping weapons clean and functional
• Patrols around areas if on deployment, including reconaissance work such as taking in information on the area of patrol and reporting back
• Carrying out operations as directed by officers and superiors, including aggressive actions
• Assisting with humanitarian and/or peacekeeping efforts, supervising food deliveries or guarding important buildings, for example

Working Conditions

The working conditions for an infantry soldier can at times be stressful and dangerous. The majority of an infantry soldier's work is conducted out of doors, with fitness training, and patrol and mission duties predominantly carried out there. As the army have presence everywhere from the deserts of the Middle East to the windswept islands of The Falklands, conditions will vary enormously. Even when not on deployment there will be a lot of training for an infantry soldier to attend and a lot of this will be conducted out-of-doors too. Having said that, modern army bases are well equipped and have a range of conveniences, so an infantry soldier's free time need not be spent in tedium.
As touched on before, an infantry soldier's job is one that requires nerve and endurance, as well as physical ability. Especially when carrying out a mission, the work can be perilous and will require great reserves of physical fitness. Combat zones are, by their very nature, fraught and dangerous, and there will be times, as an infantry soldier, when you will have to work within them.
Finally, to nail down hours for an infantry soldier is a difficult task. When on exercise or on operations, hours can be highly irregular and/or long, dependent on the situation. Normal hours on a base begin early morning and can go on until the evening, again, dependent on what training and work you are carrying out at the time.

So, try again to convince me that politicians are value for money.

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We could all copy and paste examples of other pay structures but we're talking about MPs here. I would never knock our armed forces but it's still not an argument that I regard as valid when comparing two completely different jobs.

However, for much the same reason in both cases I wouldn't step into either line of fire.

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It seems that those who give the most(giving your life for your country - well, you can't give more than that, can you?)get the least, both in financial terms, and in terms of recognition and respect.
But then some people do not live their lives with a constant eye on 'what's in it for me'.
Doing the deed, the job of work, is a reward in itself.
Somewhere along the way the values of the world seem to have become skewed....and the mighty dollar/pound/euro has become the be all and end all.

All our politicians(the major players anyway) seem to be 'career politicians'.......not many of them have done a proper job.
They have no concept of what it is like to be on a fixed income and struggle to make ends meet....perhaps if they did they would be more 'human'...more compassionate even.

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Different jobs Ken ? Two sides of the same coin, servants of the public I think you'll find they're both supposed to be, looking out for the best interests & defence of the British people, their way of life. To stand up for & defend to the very last instance, despite personal feelings or concerns, it ain't always beer & skittles, some times you've got to man up & take your hits so the folks back home don't have to.

Far as I can see there's only one group of these public servants, taking the kickings for Joe public & it isn't the gob she-ites in Westminster. Hell they've not even got the balls to fight for our Countries rights when the enemy is just bandying about words ! Politicians make all the noises, spout rhetoric & threats but who is it that has to sort the problem in the end ? Aye, the 18 year old with the rifle !

So again I ask you, who's the better value for money ?

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That was my point Margaret, civic duty should be for civic pride

Not what's in it for me!

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I was often required to be on duty for 60 and more hours per week, rail travel was not first class unless overnight on a sleeper and that was for security reasons, air travel was always cattle class.
If MPs have to work so many hours that KM suggests how do they find time to act as "Consultants" to companies - reported in the Press recently that GJ is paid in the region of £10k for his consultancy work.
As for the cost of living in London - they get a hell of a lot more than servicemen there on London Weighting Allowance, and they should have known beforehand what the "costs" of working in London are - they are supposed to be intelligent aren't they. I was fully aware of what my additional costs were going to be, and my salary, when I moved into the upstairs Mess.
Anyone who applies for, and takes, a new position should research the pertinent facts and not come crying when he/she finds the work is too demanding. As DinG says, think of the servicemen who are prepared to give a hell of a lot more than any politician for a great deal less in salary, pension, perks and family life. The serviceman is the person who is prepared to make the sacrifice after the MPs have put them in the precarious position by their actions - or lack of. The same goes for the screwing up of this country in general - by the politicians.

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they find time to do other jobs because they sleep through parliament and only wake up to kiss their leaders arse

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I think if you're expecting sympathy from the long-suffering taxpayer for the plight of our oh-so-put-upon politicians, you're batting on a sticky wicket, Ken!

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You should know me better than that! I just recognise that it isn't the easy gravy train that many people believe it to be and I personally would not give up so much of my private life to do that job. Remember this is coming from someone who is self-employed!!

Some do go into it for the perks but they get found out eventually, just the same as poor quality Councillors.

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I'm not paid enough, and I'll say it again, I'm not paid enough. Pensioners who have put in the pot all their lives aren't paid enough, many professions aren't paid enough.

The government is banging on about austerity, and, whilst the majority of the plebs understand the need for this and try to cut their cloth accordingly, accepting little or no pay rises year on year, the bottom feeding non producers in Westminster just look for ways to feather their own nests laughing all the way to the bank and thumbing their noses at the general public.

These people are in a position of ultimate trust....and time after time after time they break that trust, instead of looking to help the people they represent they look for ways to make as much money as they can via loopholes in laws that they have helped create.

Pigs feeding at the trough :mad:

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I don't think that most educated people believe that being an MP or a councillor is a gravy train. (except maybe in 'the village') ;)

In any case it is not a relevant argument for why so many of our MP's are moneygrabbing sleazebags, it's in the job description that they will be scrutinised by and answerable to Joe Public 24/7 x 52, it's also in the job description that the pay for this is £60000...if you are not prepared to do it...don't stand for election!

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MP's have it tough..... They arn't these guys are they?
Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen - YouTube

Seriously though, I used to work abroad, I did not get any allowances towards a second house, expenses. Etc etc. pensions etc.
And as to long working hours.....

Sadly I am in full agreement with Dave here, I am sure many of our serving armed forces would love the cushy jobs MP's have.

How anyone can defend their pay, is beyond me, you should want to serve, that means sacrifice, it's not all about money.

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Back in the day, MPs weren't paid. The problem with this system is so obvious ... well, if it's so obvious I won't bother to explain it;) Initially, MPs were paid in order to attract capable men (well, back in those days women were kept in their place:rolleyes:) who otherwise would not be able to become members. This basically sound idea has mutated horrendously. Perks and allowances should go. Increase the flat salary (though not by too much) and cut out the peripheral shiite. And if this salary is not enough to attract the "best" people from the private sector, so what. It was many of these "'best' people", particulary in the finnancial sector, whose crookedness and inefficiency caused the recent recession. They obviously couldn't run an orgy in a whorehouse; so why should they be any better at running a country?

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There is one person who thinks that pensioners are a drain on society....and he thinks we should all be doing community work to 'put something back'.

I am busier now than when I was working.......I look out for my elderly mother.....we shop for some of our older neighbours.....I cook for them too(at no cost to them)....I look after my daughters two children so that she can go out to work...is that enough or should I be volunteering to do more?
I don't want any medals and I do not advertise this to get any kind of sympathy,(I do it because I can) but just to show that retired people all around the country are in the same position...sandwiched between elderly parents and their children.

Outrage as former head of benefits agency Lord Bichard says the retired should take up community service or have their pensions docked - Home News - UK - The Independent

above is a link to the story.
If anyone wants this man's e-mail address to write their thoughts to him PM me and I will give it to you.

Oh and I should have said that this man retired at 53 on a pension of 120K per year. So he knows what it is like to rough it.

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Retirement age in UK is 68, see
Retirement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

..the highest in the chart.

This is on the basis that 'people are living longer', but are they really?
As a 69yr old oldie I look at the obituaries.
There are some who have reached their 80s and 90s, but they had the advantage of eating healthy food in their childhood and their prime.

The instances of people dying before reaching 70 is increasing, so the numbers who are likely never to live long enough to ever draw any pension is on the rise. The ones that do survive into their 70s are unlikely to be fit enough to work.

The government claim that we are facing a time when a large percentage of the population will be retired (over 68). I dispute this, because they're making a determined effort to ensure that the majority won't live that long.

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And no doubt he'll soon be advocating sending 7 year olds up chimneys so that they can contribute to a 'civil society' too...

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Well the sooner they start saving up for their university fees the better!

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Wonder if our local MP would like to jump to the defence of one of his own? The member for Halifax, one Linda Riordan, who likes to think she is a hard left socialist

In addition to her wage, she employs her partner at £42500 (paid by the taxpayer). She rents out her London home to another MP for £1560 (paid by the taxpayer) whilst paying the mortgage on said property of £500 (paid by her). She herself rents another property in London for £1473 (paid by the taxpayer)

For this she has spoken in parliament a grand total of 23 times, well below average for an MP and been pretty much below average at everything else related to her job, according to the highly regarded theyworkforyou website.

Interesting to note though, that she has never voted on having a more transparent parliament.....I wonder why

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I see from her website that she has been a trougher since '05; so, no doubt she will recieve a decent pension if she loses her seat in the next election. The question I have, and I hope someone (other than google) can provide the answer, is: Do UK MPs make contributions to their pension? And, if so, how much?

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Ah yes, but it's not "the easy gravy train that many believe it to be" according to Ken. :rolleyes:

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Happen we're standing on the wrong platform Wynn. ;)

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There are always going to be differences between how hard MPs work, just as the are with Councillors (indeed those of any profession) but personally speaking, although I had no complaints about Greg Pope, I am more than happy with how much harder Graham Jones works for our borough.

Call me parochial but that's all I really care about in our local MP.

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To be fair, I think our MP does work harder than many other MP's even if he does sometimes ask daft questions in the house like:

'has Rupert Murdoch ever used the word sky in your presence?' or 'how much does the hay cost for the Household Cavalry horses?'

Still doesn't explain why he hasn't gone on here or twitter condemning the rent scam MP's, he was very quick to tweet about Osbornes fare dodging attempt but went very quiet when it was pointed out in the press that Labour MP's were at it too.

I refer to my original post 'double standards'!

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In fairness, I've asked what may look on the face of it to be petty questions at Council but they usually all boil down to the same thing - money. Are those in charge running things in a way which is best for the taxpayer or simply for themselves? It doesn't matter what side of the fence you sit, if it's crooked then it's crooked. I feel sure that Graham would say the same, he isn't the party-blinded bigot that some people choose to believe.

The whole Sky/Newscorp thing did not sit well with me and all and neither did the Virgin Trains debacle either, particularly since public opinion was so firmly against both. George Osborne has come under particular scrutiny because he's the Chancellor, for goodness sake.

Public office demands that you are beyond reproach. Those who forget this are liable to be found out....

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Exactly what I keep going on about. It's this sort of cheap political point scoring which engenders the contempt we feel for politicians.

I would also like to know why he uses his time commenting on the affairs of a football club which isn't even in his constituency.

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Come off it, Ken, do you seriously think that if the Shadow Chancellor had done the same thing, Graham would've been commenting on it? As far as I'm aware, he's said nowt about expenses abuses by Labour politicians but is quick to comment about a Tory. Doubtless, if it was a Tory MP it'd be the other way round. It's sad that you genuinely can't see just how the electorate can see right through this sort of cheap point scoring.

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It isn't so much that I can't see it, it's more that I choose not to get bogged down in it. I'm going through a similar argument at the moment with our Rishton blog with one activist moaning that it is Labour only. This is not true, it just so happens that the four Rishton representatives are all Labour. The public made that choice, not us.

However, my comeback to the activist is that the blog is rarely political because people quickly weary of political point scoring, even from those who they vote for.

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Hehe...I refer the honourable gentleman to the last comment and link he provided in post 11 of this thread :p

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You really have got into the professional politician's knack of not answering questions, haven't you? Anything but breathe the slightest criticism of Graham or indeed any Labour politician.

Graham Jones has criticised Osborne for the train incident the other day but, as far as I'm aware, has not made any comment on Labour politicians' expenses abuses. Was he right or wrong to do this? A simple yes or no will do. ;)

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Ha! However, as long-term Accywebbers will testify that is one of my more balanced posts regarding that particular area of local government.

My energies are better focused these days now that the target of my criticisms is gone.

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I can't really comment on something I don't know about but I'm not going to criticise him for having a pop at the Chancellor. However, you're wrong about me and Labour politicians - if it's wrong, it's wrong. I certainly won't leap to the defence of anyone simply because they happen to be wearing the same badge.

As I said earlier (post #11 I believe....), the expenses scandal cost members of all colours badly and good riddance to all of those on the fiddle.

Including Labour.

That do you?

:D

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And you're certainly not condemning them either, as your comment was if it's wrong, it's wrong, surely condemnation should also follow regardless of party/colours. :)

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Er, no. I'm not asking you to criticise Graham for having a pop at the Chancellor. I'm asking you was he wrong to have a pop at the Chancellor, but, as far as I'm aware, not to criticise Labour politicians for their money grubbing tactics which seem to be against the spirit of the expenses system which are still occurring in this present Parliament. And don't give me the old politicians' stand by of "I can't comment on what I don't know about"...it's easy enough to find out in a matter of minutes, thanks to the wonders of the internet. Sadly, I don't think we're ever going to get a straight answer from you.

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If that is so why did he meekly follow the party line on the referendum vote?
Did he change his mind of his own free will or did he take into account that his political would have been severely damaged by going against Milliband - in other words "Screw the people that elected me, better for my wallet if I follow my leaders instructions.

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Won't quote the whole thread, though it was worthwhile.

However, I must pull you up so far as your attitude, I feel that one M.P. is worth maybe, 1,000 perhaps even 10,000 of our servicemen/women, in fact at the next major Conflict that they consider Morally correct, they should be prepared to do the fighting, we'll keep the troops at home on low pay, nobody is worth sacrificing at the whim of a politician.
:(

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I agree with you, compare the salary of our MP and the senior officers at Hyndburn and I am sure you will find our MP is on less money.

Our MP is also paid less than many of the managers where I work.

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What are you basing that decision on, is it on what you earn or what people in senior positions in the private sector earn?

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I have stated before that I don't think local Councillors get enough for what they do - well the good ones that do a lot for Hyndburn don't get enough. As in all 'professions' there are those that do more than others.

From what I here Ken you are one of the good ones that is always busy trying to help people and make the place better

(yeah yeah I know, there is a little brown mark on my nose :D )

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I do not agree with employing a partner or family member.

The fiddle with the house rents is just that and should be stopped.

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As a local councillor I would say that no politician, national or local, should be using the allowance or expenses system to their own advantage. We should all be honourable people whose conduct is above board. At Hyndburn I feel that the allowance system is proportionate to councillors' responsibilities. Leaders, cabinet members, chairs of committees, etc. are entitled to draw higher allowances for the work they do and the level of responsibility they have. Until my mother died a few months ago I had to claim carer's allowance when I went to full Council meeting as she couldn't be left on her own in an evening. However, the allowance only partially covered the cost of a Crossroads carer. I don't think councillors should be out of pocket for the work they do.

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Since those who voted against are still in government I don't think that Graham was under sentence of death somehow. It really isn't for me to speak on his behalf so I'm not going to.

If he wasn't so universally lambasted for the EU vote (without asking him directly) then maybe he would use this forum more often?

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No way should any councillor be a cent out of pocket fer any work they do in my eyes,also aware that some are, n that don't sit well wi me, Martyrs should be consigned to history.

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Maybe you should have written to the leader of your party. He's intent on slashing benefits to people who need care. I think the Independent Living Fund is the next to go.

Surely your late mother would have been on some sort of care benefit like SDA or DLA which is supposed to pay for all her extra care needs. I'm not too well up on this but if she was receiving help from the state to help pay for her care shouldn't she have paid for this herself whilst you were on council business instead of you paying and then claiming from expenses.

Honestly not having a go here, and fair play to you for sticking your head above the parapet. you should most definitely not be out of pocket but isn't that why you get a basic allowance, just trying to get my head round who and what is supposed to pay for who and what. :)

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Good of you to say that, thank you. However, none of us are out of pocket for the work we do up at the Council although technically on occasion I suppose I (and others too) have worked for less than the minimum wage. This is a personal choice and I have never felt obliged to do more than I am being paid for by members of the Cabinet.

I have said it before about being a Councillor but to be anywhere near good at representing your community you really have to want to do it and those who just see it as easy four-year ego boost rarely seem to see it beyond a first term. Waving the flag only at election time is now clearly seen for what it is by the public and a good thing too because it whittles out the chaff.

I remain convinced that the majority of Councillors go into politics for the best of reasons and know exactly what the job entails, it isn't always easy but it is immensely rewarding to try and make local life better. I am just over halfway into my first term now and would love to continue so I hope the public think I'm worthy of another crack at it in 2014.

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It is very rare for people to have a serious dig at their own side so while I take your point I don't think it is anything of a surprise to anyone. I think the nearest analogy would be along the lines of a football team laying into one of their own in an interview for missing a penalty or something.

That's a bit of a clumsy simile but I think you get my point.

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Not good of me at all Ken, I look at life pretty simple, its a matter of Right @ Wrong.;)

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What many peole fail to realise is that there is a huge difference between local politics and national politics....much of the difference is to do with scale and ego's.
What I mean by that( and you have referred to it yourself Ken) is that the ego trip of being a local councillor is nothing like that of being an MP(although in my book, an MP is the servant of his constituents rather than the banner he stands under - constituents should always be his/her first priority)...you will always get some people who are in it for what they can do for themselves, but this is less evident in Local politics....and the expenses of national politics are bigger so, again open to abuse by those unscrupulous ones.

In both situations we have the power in our hands.......Know who you are giving your vote to..if you don't like the things they have been up to, then don't vote for them.

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Eloquently put, as always.

I think what I should have been more clear about is that being an MP is very much a full time job and every waking hour becomes devoted to community work. Although this is largely true of Councillors it is not a salary that you could hope to live off solely and you do at least get to go home every night and switch off when you want to. This is not true of an MP and your life is very much not your own anymore. You put your life on hold for five years and pray that you keep getting re-elected or else you really are back to the dole queue. In the wake of recent expenses scandals and the public demanding to know what their representatives are getting out of them this is much harder now, I feel.

Essentially, for a continued life as an MP these days you really have to prove your worth.

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OK, fair enough, Ken, so you won't criticize Graham due to party loyalty. I can understand that. However, for those of us who owe no allegiance to any party I'm sure you can see how it rings somewhat hollow when a politician is having a pop at an opposition politico whilst people in his own party are doing similar things. It tends to add to our already somewhat jaundiced view of politicos on all sides! ;)

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I won't criticise Graham due to personal loyalty not party, but yes I see your point of view.

Too busy with local issues to get involved with it myself....

;)

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Yeah, I suppose I should've guessed you would be! ;)

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Can anyone explain how an MP, who is so overworked by his parliamentary duties and his local community activities, can still find time to provide consultancy services to businesses for which they are paid significant stipends.

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You really couldn't make it up....Not only did this guy charge the taxpayer £125,000 for renting his own garage as an office, rent out his £700,000 flat in London whilst claiming £1400+ a month in rent, we now discover that he's also screwed the taxpayer for £13,000 for a none existent European Policy Institute.

BBC News - MP's expenses: Denis MacShane faces 12-month suspension

No wonder he's a freakin' millionaire....

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Wonder if Graham Jones will be tweeting about him? :rolleyes:

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Nope his tweets are stuck on the letter 'B' at the moment..Bond films, Berg and Betting Terminals :dflam: ;)

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So where's the bit about "Bull" ? :rolleyes:

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It just shows the distinct disregard for the ordinary man in the street....the man that Labour politicians purport to be the champions for.

It makes you despair to think that after all that has gone before, they have learned absolutely nothing.

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Having stated the above Ken, perhaps you can provide a response to my point that I cannot understand how someone (any MP), can also provide consultancy services - for quite considerable payments, when they are so busy with their Parliamentary duties and services to the community they are elected to represent?

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M.P. MacShane has just gone.....another 'un with the middle name Corruption.

I wonder if there are any other M.P.'s who are still complaining about the system of claiming expenses?

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The honest answer is that I don't know, Barrie. You really would have to ask Graham on that as it is the first I've heard of it.

However, since being an MP is very much the whim of the people at election time and since he himself is/was/maybe under threat of a Tory cull as part of the boundary review I can't blame anyone for trying to secure that they have some sort of safety net after Parliament.

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I thought I had read that even if there was a boundary change, then Graham Jones would be sure of a seat because he was an incumbent...well, sure of a seat if folk vote for him that is....he would automatically be put up for one of the seats...now whether folks in areas other than Hyndburn would vote for him is anyones guess.

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Another one who had her snout firmly in the trough...

Labour MP Margaret Moran 'claimed £53,000 in false expenses' - Telegraph

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And even more public money is being wasted on a trial where the defendant cannot be found guilty.

The mind boggles..why try her in the first place when all the result can possibly be is that she is required to be 'helped' to recover......

She was not mentally ill when she ripped off the taxpayer..her alleged illness is the result of being caught....it a damn disgrace!

She should be helped to recover in an understaffed NHS ward like the rest of the plebs and then tried!

Yet another pig feeding at the trough that is going to get away with it...

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And predictably enough, she has got away with it.

Margaret Moran fiddled £53,000 in expenses, but will not go to jail - Telegraph

One law for them... :rolleyes:

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She should be made to pay back every penny and all her assets should be seized.

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well if i rob yer house get caught n say i am unwell, will that mean ive cracked it?:mad:

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No, Cashy...I don't think it works like that for us poor plebs.
You have to have MP after your name.

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She's an idiot and from the latest pics of her she is in bad health.. I don't reckon her being banged up would be any use.
I'd like to know what criteria is used to prosecute these MP's.. can't see much difference in claiming for a new boiler or claiming rent for an appartment for your boyfriend .. or claiming thousands for hotels you ain't stayed in ..??...some seem to get off lightly and just shoved under the carpet!

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This woman has been judged unfit to plead because of depression.......and she won't even have a criminal record at the end of all this. Ok...so don't put her in prison, but she should have this on record.
She is a fraudster and cannot be trusted.

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These greedy, grasping sods are still determined to keep their snouts in the trough.

Bercow and his bullies bring shame on our Parliament - Telegraph

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The British parliament has been in shame for years, it's reflected in the decreasing amount of people voting.

If you took a straw poll asking 'do you trust politicians?', my guess is that 95% would say NO! The 5% YES vote would be the relatives/hangers on of politicians.

Of course that poll would never occur, because the politicians would change the question into 'do you honestly not, not trust politicians to be honestly not honest?'

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As you stated in first paragraph less people voting therefore the figures in your straw poll are wrong.
Allow me to explain,

95% wouldn't vote in it therefore the 5% that does vote relatives/hangers on etc. would have a 100% result of Yes we do trust politicians.
A resounding result proving that the system works, allowing politicians to continue in the manner politicians are so adept at.
:)

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The real tragedy is that even a tongue in cheek reply like that is probably nearer to the truth than we probably realise....

Meanwhile back hidden amongst headlines of feigned outrage by the PM about being asked a question by a TV presenter ( I mean how dare anyone ask our Dave a difficult unrehearsed question)..here's yet another trough eater who it seems has no case to answer.

Disgraced peer claimed £286k in expenses

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...and despite this catalogue of abuses, he's STILL sitting in the House of Lords as a crossbencher. Is it any wonder nobody trusts politicians any more?

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Seem to remember such a poll in Canada earlier this year and politicians didn't fare all that well on the "trust" question. I remember they polled better than psychics and telemarketers (barely); but worse than used car salesmen and lawyers.:rolleyes:

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Greedy scum...and they have the Speaker to back 'em up.

MPs' expenses: MPs allowed to hide expenses details - Telegraph

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Well I for one can understand their fears, they screw the system, but don't want protesters turning up and ruining their lawn (or duck pond) of course they should be protected, they have something to fear, unlike honest folk.

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You know, only yesterday our MP was banging on about rogue landlords in the house, strange how he made no mention of the 'real' rogue landlords who rent property from each other at the taxpayers expense!

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Maybe he'll comment on this one, as it doesn't involve criticizing any Labour politicians. In fact, I'm surprised C'mon hasn't been on here babbling about it.

MPs' expenses: top Tory in secret deal - Telegraph

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Perhaps the greediest of them all is our ex-Prime Minister, Brown. Still drawing his salary and expenses too no doubt, yet he has only appeared in the House about three times this year, and has never contributed in any debate. Perhaps he is too busy jetting all over the world advising on fiscal policy etc and no doubt receiving significant advisory fees.

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...and here we go yet again!

MPs' expenses soar to record levels with more than one in four putting family on the payroll - Mirror Online

It stretches right across the political spectrum, but perhaps most hypocritical of all are the Tory scum who campaigned against a minimum wage and employ their relatives on very generous salaries.

Beneath contempt. :mad:

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Hang on a minute Wyn somebody has to pay their kids school fees, you don't expect them to pay out of the pitense they receive as salary :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Apologies for C'mon style cut-and-paste, but this sums it up really. As he concludes: "This is why people hate politicians". The new MPs? Expenses Scandal | Trending Central

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At least your C & Ps are worth reading Wyn:rolleyes:

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MPs are now forced to rent which has pushed up MP's housing costs considerably (at taxpayers expense) as a result of changes banning ownership following public outrage in 2009 expenses scandal.

A friend of mine (MP) rents a room from a retired MP who still lives in the other room (two bed flat). This MP was pilloried in the nationals for saving taxpayers money. People on message boards then put an uninformed boot in.

I have said this before but it's worth saying it again. I employ four staff and spend nearly all the allowances given to me. The constituency office is one of the best in the country. Since 2010 we have helped over 5,000 people individually. The notice board is full of thank you cards. Not to me (though they may have my name on them) but to the dedicated staff I employ.

Spending most of the allowance may make me a high spending MP (I am not sure). Contrast that with the MP (nameless) who sleeps in his office, doesn't do casework and employs no staff and needs a map to get back to his constituency.

I am also under 65 so lose out on cheap pensioner rail fares. Unlike some stay away MP's who stay in London, I come home every weekend to do surgeries and work here in the constituency adding more rail fares. Lancashire is far more expensive to get to than the home counties.

I have a daughter and entitled to a small additional allowance for accommodation.

I don't claim mileage in East Lancashire or food allowances.

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Nobody questions your honesty or morality, it's plain to see for anyone who cares to check. The changes you refer to were brought about by an army of your colleagues bleeding the system, whilst crucifying in parliament the single parent on benefit who does a few hours behind the bar on a friday night cash in hand as fraudsters.

The same civil servants who drew up the loophole riddled expenses rules are the same ones who have now created the sledgehammer to crack a walnut rules on ownership....welcome to our world Graham, they do it to us plebs on a daily basis with their interpretation on what you lot create in parliament.

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I remember your predecessor Ken Hargreaves, Ken didn't drive so he had people on call if he needed to go anywhere, say the airport or train station or around the constituency at weekends and recess, there was one instance where one of these people changed their car, getting a car with a smaller engine size (in those days PM exes were paid on engine size) this had gone on for a month when he found out he'd been claiming to much, but he insisted that he paid the claims office back the amount he over claimed, which was out of his pocket not the drivers, no wonder he was well respected thought the constituency and Westminster, honest holy joe;)

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I agree.

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Ken gave me lots of good advice and I respect him greatly. His compassion for his constituents is something I look up to. We shared a joke or two in his last days. Sadly missed by me for his guiding hand.

One issue we discussed was the differences today. Ken didn't envy today's electronic world. I receive between 100-150 emails a day which Ken just looked upwards when I told him. I recall he had one member staff which was sufficient back then. Miss him. Great conversations.