someone best mention it
 

dont get over excited but cameron says we are going to get a referendum on the EU

i reakon this prommise is about as meaningless as graham jones's prommise to vote in favour of a referendum on the EU and simply a desperate effort to win some voters because he knows him and clegg are up the creek without a paddle and loosing votes to the likes of UKIP

mind you lying through his teeth got graham jones some extra votes so it may work for cameron

time will tell but expect many delays and many excuses along the way

Re: someone best mention it
 

It is conditional on them getting another term of office....a promise that is a long time coming........weasel words...not to be trusted, because the other week DC was telling people in his party that he didn't think we should come out of the EU.

Give us the referendum first...then we might vote for you....but no referendum...NO VOTE!

Re: someone best mention it
 

Utter crap,:rolleyes:Cameron says "Its time for the British People to have there say".....................But NOT fer another 5 yrs.:rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

By which time there will be a whole heap of Romanians and bulgarians here....straining still further the infrastructure of our towns and cities...claiming benefits from day one....GRRRRRR! don't put my blood pressure up further...please!!

Re: someone best mention it
 

If you don't want a referendum on Europe then vote Labour (or Conservative).

Re: someone best mention it
 

Spot on, yeh forgot to add Libs as well Dave.

Re: someone best mention it
 

You can tell when Cameron is telling porkies















His lips are moving:D

Re: someone best mention it
 

More empty promises to save his lying hide, placate the rebels in his party & take in the gullible. He said it before & look what happened, if he was serious & truly meant it why not now ? Sooner rather than at some undefined future date.

Re: someone best mention it
 

the biggest set of crooks going all took a vote on this not so long ago and both cameron and labour got what they wanted

mind you maybe camerons playing a curveball and needs the pesky EU rules out of teh way so he can finally oblitorate the poor....

Re: someone best mention it
 

A YouGov survey reckons that more people want to stay in the EU.
What I want to know is....who did they ask?

Re: someone best mention it
 

every other european country but us ?

Re: someone best mention it
 

If other countries in the EU can turn them away why can't we.
If there are more than 100 people unemployed, then their should be an automatric ban on any scroungers from other countries in the EU, or any where else for that matter.
The frogs and jerries have never forgiven us for the past 100 years and are determined to pay us back, by what ever means possible. Whilst the likes of Cameron & the Blairites still exist they will succeed.

Re: someone best mention it
 

i think you just might have hit on the answer.
Personally I don't believe the results of the referendum in 1975.
Those who counted the votes were made to sign the official secrets Act....now why would they be made to do that if it was open and above board.
I also believe that if and when a referendum happens those results will be manipulated too........and we will be shackled to the corrupt, money hungry, bureaucracy bloated organisation that is the EU.
Successive governents have sold us down the river.
The cuts in the number of men in the Army should tell us something.....we aren't going to need an army, because the army will be made up of men from all over the EU....it will be a United States of Europe Army.

Re: someone best mention it
 

the only answer is to burn paliament down and start fresh

with the MP's in it preferably

Re: someone best mention it
 

Retlaw, the French and the Germans interpret the Eu rules to their benefit...and they ignore the ones they don't like...with no redress at all.....but the Brits follow the rules slavishly.
I don't know why we don't turn them away...Maybe Graham Jones will come on here and tell us sometime.
Yes, I get the impresion that the French and the germans have been waiting to rub our noses in it.

The French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius has said that if Britain wants to leave the EU, they will get out the red carpet for us.
Chance would be a fine thing.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Hope thats remembered next time they want liberating.:rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

so that will be about 2-3 weeks before he or one of his underlings at HBC needs your vote then;)

Re: someone best mention it
 

Well....you lot can call me a cynic, but I don't believe a word that comes out of the mouth of DC.
A lot can happen in four years. He could lose the election...which would nullify these promises.
I think all this is just a ploy to kick Ukip down the street a block or three.

If Ukip do become seriously threatening and won enough seats at the next election, they would align themselves to the Labour party.....and we would have another 'hobbled' coalition government where the two parties pull in different directions.
Ukip would never align themselves to the Tory Party........so I reckon this talk of us having a say is just a myth...like the bogeyman in the dark, under the stairs.

In the next four years there will be concerted efforts to convince the British electorate (by fair means or foul) that we could not survive without the EU...and we'll be bamboozled again.
GET US OUT NOW! Let's stop giving our money away to people who spend it foolishly(and cannot tell us where it has gone), and let's spend on the infrastructure of our towns and cities to make them decent places to be.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Surely Cameron's move has effectively blown UKIP out of the water. Therir popularity is based on people wanting an IN/OUT referendum. If the Conservatives are now promising that, it will bring back most of the wavering Tory voters who had switched to UKIP?

But what are these 'concessions' that Cameron wants to renegotiate before going for a referendum? Presumably he'll be arguing that the concessions should apply to ALL countries rather than just Britain, because why should Britain be considered a special case? And what if the other countries don't want them? Answer: he won't get them. And he'll be forced to hold an IN/OUT referendum which he has promised, and which will produce an OUT vote. Then what?

To extend the analogy of the French foreign minister, Britain will be like a player joining a football club and asking to play rugby - then asking for a transfer, but being left to rot in the reserves because he's signed a lifetime contract.....

....or being allowed to leave on condition he buys himself out of the contract which will cripple himself financially for life!

Re: someone best mention it
 

Ted Heath took us in and evidence is emerging that he was blackmailed into doing it.

Re: someone best mention it
 

If DC thinks he can renegotiate Britains position he is deluded.
As for kicking Ukip into touch by promising an IN/OUT referendum.....a promise by a politician is very tenuous...not to be trusted........I am pretty sure that I am not the only person who would want to see it first ( give us the referendum.....then you'll get my vote).
We all know that we are promised the bread of heaven to get us to vote.......and once the X has been placed we get the mouldy old supermarket stuff.
As for your football player analogy....that is exactly what the politicians want us to believe.
I would liken being in the EU to being in an abusive marriage.......while you are in it, your partner tells you that you are worthless and will amount to nothing without them.......you break away, and YES, it is hard for a while, but you get your confidence back and wonder why you stayed all that time, investing the partnership at the cost of your 'self' and sanity.

They need us much more than we need them.
The fact that Angela Merkel says she is willing to consider DC's proposals goes someway to underline this.(but again, she is a politician and it could just be bluff).

Re: someone best mention it
 

Doubt that very much gynn, though that was probably his intention.

Re: someone best mention it
 

They didn't ask Accywebers thats for sure:mad:

Re: someone best mention it
 

I don't know who they asked...certainly not me!

Re: someone best mention it
 

I have not read back over what I wrote but what I said has occurred; anti EU views have swung to the right. Cameron has made clear he wanted repeal of the working hours directive, repeal workers rights and conditions, a clawing back of EU powers in fields of environment, social affairs and crime. He wants to remain in the single market. Wholly unacceptable.

The repeal of the EU arrest warrant for example would have left 39 pedophiles free to offend, British courts unable to convict them as they did.

Cameron's has finally and openly said in effect his EU referendum is a policy to undermine workers pay and conditions and their families. To make the labour market 'more flexible'. I made this point consistently then and suggested then it was changing my view and losing support on the left. Jobs and growth are the priority and most business leaders have stated, a referendum will undermine that objective clouding the issue. I have to consider the views of businesses locally. Their view is pro EU on the whole as your would expect.

But the OUT divisions are not just Labour left and UKIP/Tory right. Even the right are divided on what OUT means.

It is fundamental that the case for OUT is explained in full.

However no-one can explain what OUT means. Norway often cited by many as a position Britain should adopt however it pays 80% of what British citizens pay and we would pay far more than 80% to be able to access the single market, without any say and with Britain's crucial banking at the mercy of Berlin and Paris.

Switzerland also pay and have to accept all single market EU rules (like Norway) but negotiate every single trade agreement separately. Red tape?

Some believe OUT is OUT with no trade with Europe, no single market. 50% of our export trade is currently with Europe employing 3million workers.

So no-one can agree on what OUT means. Or now what IN means with Cameron's intervention. Whether Britain will have to pay more for the SM with no say... The list of questions just goes on and on ...

I made these points last time.

Opinion polls are quickly shifting against OUT because of this. The EU skeptic right needs to quickly and thoughtfully explain what OUT will result in because otherwise my view will keep moving away towards a solid IN.

At the same time Euroskeptics have to recognise that Ed Miliband has targeted what are my concerns (and of the left - a necessary component of a successful out vote) for reform ... but within Europe.

On the final point about a referendum I have met with the people's pledge to listen closely to their points of view. The question is whether a referendum could offer Britain a better future.

What Labour voters may face in a referendum is Hobson's choice. OUT and the risk of losing of employment and economic damage or IN and a renegotiated relationship that attacks workers, the environment. As I made absolutely clear last time, in this scenario, why would a Labour MP wholeheartedly endorse a possible lose-lose referendum even if he was a Euroskeptic? To not have a referendum, as disappointing as that may be would be the best option for business and workers.

Re: someone best mention it
 

What evidence is there for this? Digby Jones stated that UK businesses aren't much bothered one way or the other.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Sorry. Graham, although I've quoted what you said, couldn't be bothered to read it, too much and too late.

Re: someone best mention it
 

There are many business heads and leaders who do not agree that a referendum will undermine business in the Uk...but what does undermine business and investment, is the uncertainty that the waiting for a referendum entails.
Who is to say that if we get an OUT vote at a referendum(that I, personally, doubt very much will happen) we won't be sent back (by the powers that be at the EU) to vote again, until we get the answer right.

By the time this referendum happens the country will be full to bursting with those from the eastern bloc countries and we will be well and truly stuffed(and I do not mean that in the derogatory sense).
YouGov polls suggest that some 40% of britons want to stay in the EU While 34%(I think it was) want to come out...the rest are sitting on the fence.
Any referendum should be held soon...we should not be waiting until 2017...this is just so that DC can fudge the issue still further. Or perhaps he is hoping that the austerity measures in the PIGS countries will bear fruit.

There is no accountability in the EU...no democracy....and this is anathema to the people of Britain.
I do not want political accord with Europe.......how can so many countries be served fairly by such a bloated organisation...the answer is...they can't!

Re: someone best mention it
 

and all the talk about businesses going down if we are not in the EU.......it is scare tactics, meant to scare the bejasus out of people who are unsiure about how to vote should this referendum happen...like when the European Common Market was sold to us way back in the seventies...we were told that it was an agreement for trade...nothing more. What a whole load of bullshine that was.
I wouldn't care if the Brits would play the same games as the French and the Germans, who seem to twist EU rules to their own ends...and ignore the ones that they don't like.
Bigger isn't better.......the USSR is proof of that.

Re: someone best mention it
 

I think that Graham has made a convincing argument, on primarily economic grounds, for staying in the EU. And I do find myself agreeing with his questioning of the government's motives. But what I see on here are folks who are concerned with more than just economics. It's a much broader based opposition. There are serious concerns about national identity, and the refusal of your government to listen to the legitimate concerns of the voters ... you know, those people who are angry at becoming invisible and, basically, a pain in the ass between elections. When Graham says "To not have a referendum [is] disappointing" he isn't coming close to understanding the anger of voters who feel they are being ignored. No, it's more than just a "feeling"; it's exactly what is happening.

By the way, just in case anyone is remotely interested, the view from this side of the pond is that Europe is an econimic basket case, and poses a major threat to economic recovery in North America.

Re: someone best mention it
 

there are many other options open to UK buisness and that is fact.My pal sells not only to the NHS both england and scotland but internationally to Oman,India,America,The Emerate states and a whole load of other non EU countries.What were once considered poorer countries are developing into or are now strong economies and companies like my pals are getting their feet in first and securing a strong foothold .Therse companies that are moving into the non EU countries will be the ones that survive when the EU goes belly up if it hasnt allready

Re: someone best mention it
 

Eric, that hits the nail squarely on the head.

Our politicians are not listening, have not listened(to the concerns of the electorate) will not listen....and the EU do not understand anything at all about democratic process...if they did, then those nations who voted against the last treaty would not have been sent back to vote again until they came up with the vote that was acceptable to the EU.

We do not want to have our identity diluted, ignored or otherwise messed with, especially by those who were (in the past) our enemies.

There are other nations in the EU who are saying that, in essence, what DC is saying is right.

Re: someone best mention it
 

There was one, he seemed to be 'for the people', Oh what the hey, it's up to him to prove my doubts wrong rather than for me to point out where he went wrong.

He has, up until the next to prove the faith I had by putting an X against his name.

Not looking good so far, wish I had a different attitude.

Re: someone best mention it
 

And the British Government can then create it's own set of worker protective rules without the associated Euro gobbledegook that allows them to be bypassed and ignored

Pure sensationalism...in the main the EU arrest warrant simply speeds up the extradition process, and has loads of strings attached to it. Extradition can be negotiated by treaty.

You got a link to that? I can't find it anywhere, or is it just your interpretation of what he said?

What business are actually asking for is a referendum now or never, not to have to wait 5 years so they can plan for the future today without uncertainty. Care to name these 'local' businessess who are pro EU?

Politicians may have divisions on what OUT means...the voting public do not, it's the opposite of IN. Guess that makes us smarter than your average politician

Pure speculation, we spend a fortune in trade, far more than they spend with us, it would be financial suicide for them to dictate unfair terms or increase tariffs, or refuse our exports we could take our business elsewhere.

And the list of answers also goes on and on....

And we all know how reliable opinion polls are.

And here is your usual obligatory EdM is my hero moment

Or we could just maintain the status quo, open our borders to all and sundry, join the United States of Europe and start brushing up our schoolboy German, which is what you are basically telling your labour voters to do

Re: someone best mention it
 

It surprised me that Jones even bother to spend so much time making that post, or maybe it was one of his employees, schlepping for him, but I half expected him to have something to say, merely because he thought he could score a few points, pity he didn't try scoring some when he had the chance, he can't turn the clock back not on an issue like this, he stab the people of Hyndburn in the back end of story

Re: someone best mention it
 

Come the day of the EU referendum, and the vote comes out with a majority to opt out of the EU.
It won't make any difference what so ever, the government of the day will just organise new referendums until they get the vote they want.
Best way to deal with the EU is to undermine it from within and cause it to collapse.
Cameron could make them sit up and beg tomorrow, if he just told France & Germany, no more money till this is sorted.

Re: someone best mention it
 

because of the EU there is a child killer walking free in darwen (although he may have moved if he has any sense) after mowing down a little girl.Although an illigal immigrant he seeded an english woman while illigally here so the EU says he has to stay in the UK .

So basically the argument that a few pedos may be lurking around if the EU wasnt flexing its muscles is a joke and besides if we wernt governed by the EU our courts would be able to deal with these sick perverts propperly and not have their decisions over ruled by authourities outside the uk court system.

we need less human rights and more victims rights in this country and all the EU offers is continuous support for the criminal

Re: someone best mention it
 

We are talking to ourselves...no-one (that can make a difference) is listening.

Re: someone best mention it
 

i do think that teh only reason why cameron would want out of teh EU is so that he could abuse the workforce of this country but i think he would find himself realising that theres only so far you can push the british public just like his thatcher idol realised when london got torn apart over the poll tax

Re: someone best mention it
 

Accyman your a real nice bloke but some times you do talk some unadulterated crap!!!!!:)

Re: someone best mention it
 

Hehe, did you really expect anything else?...GJ debates on this forum like MP's of all parties debate in the house...those who can make a difference make their speeches and leave. They don't listen to the opposing arguments, they don't respond to opposing arguments, they just barrel along pushing through their own personal view regardless ;)

Re: someone best mention it
 

How could you tell Jay?

Did it seem like you were talking to yourself?
;)

Re: someone best mention it
 

No, I didn't expect anything different......I might have done once of a day, but I have learned that perhaps my expectations are the problem...they are too high.
I foolishly believed that people would have similar integrity to myself.........how expensive are the lessons in life.(sigh)

Re: someone best mention it
 

it depends what people want britain to be in the world,a little back water country with no trade agreements and constant red tape for exporters.this is a policy of david cameron i agree with. we should renegotiate not leave.we need every chance and help to get growth going again.i do think human rights bill should be changed to the rights of the victim not the criminal.workers rights should be on a different bill.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Thats all well n good, but whats yer position if Europe won't play ball?:rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

Hmm..integrity...

Watched how all the labour councillors in minority used this board to bitch and whine when out of power, and ran for the hills when in power.

They posted in thread after thread about how the town centre, market hall, bus station, arndale had been ruined...yet not one single Labour councillor has attempted to justify the current state of affairs..not one!!!!

So you can only extrapolate the following...those Labour councillors that used to post are either cowards, liars, gagged or unable to construe a justifiable argument......or all of the above!

Re: someone best mention it
 

You jocks can please yourselves when you drop the golden tit from London, you keep in Europe, but of course your free prescriptions will go free university place will go, free care for the elderly will go, free hospital parking will go, more power to Salmons elbow I say, build Hadrian's Wall 10 feet tall and man the borders, big sign up no dog stabbers allowed:D

Re: someone best mention it
 

go and help that guy with the con club he needs it. dave c is on the bandwagon lol:D

Re: someone best mention it
 

Ah the truth hurts does it;)

Re: someone best mention it
 

And how now the Tories are in a minority they are not on here using the board to moan about those in power - they use the Observer instead :D

Re: someone best mention it
 

They're good at moaning but come up short on doing Guinness, at all levels, remember when in opposition how Mossy came on here every day and asked why Tory councillors didn't come on here, were they scared of facing questions, seems its now turned full circle, their take on the bus station would be interesting :jimbo::jimbo::jimbo:HELLO IS ANYBODY THERE:jimbo::jimbo::jimbo:

Re: someone best mention it
 

I'm going to correct you on that, Guinness. We have never slagged off the town centre, etc. and have gone on record saying how good the efforts were to restore the Market Hall, talking down the town doesn't help anyone, regardless of the administration.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking me for here. I've steered clear of Accyweb for quite some time purely because the answers I gave to questions once Labour got control of HBC stopped being believed. It's not a great use of my time finding answers for 30 or so regular posters who are convinced that all of a sudden I am part of some grand HBC conspiracy. I can only tell people what is actually happening, to address any group of residents with false hope or cure-all answers would be of no help to anyone.

I have said several times before that I am all in favour of an EU referendum provided that the Great British public are presented with a full set of impartial facts detailing the pros and cons. My gut feeling is that Mr Cameron is dangling the carrot of a referendum sometime within the next parliament if the Conservatives get control but that parliament lasts until 2020. Give us a specific year, Prime Minister?

UKIP's policies aren't exactly robust but they've certainly rattled the cages of the main parties.

Re: someone best mention it
 

The offer of a referendum by DC is a myth.......it is a ploy to gain votes.......and we have seen that before...it is just a sop to public opinion. DC has never ever said he can see the UK out of the EU...or that he wants us out of the EU...in fact quite the opposite. He has frequently said that he sees the UK in Europe.
And don't you think that weakens his bargaining power with the EU(not that I think any of the current set up have the collective brains to get us out, but that is beside the point).......No wonder Angela Merkel says she is willing to consider any proposals put forward(with regard to repatriation of powers)...she knows it will come to nothing because it will be written in such convoluted language that even a philadelphia lawyer would be tied in knots.

I feel so jaundiced about politics...so cynical and distrustful. It is going to take some kind of miracle for me to believe any of the parties.

It just seems that we have no power over our future. The power of the ballot box is impotent, if those you elect do not take seriously the concerns of the electorate.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Dodgy Dave and his carrot.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Nice to see your okay Ken, I heard you'd joined a monastery and took the vow of silence, must only have been a ugly rumour, mind you that rings a bell too:rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

Didn't say anything about 'slagging off', I used the term 'bitch and whine' which you and a couple of other Labour councillors did quite often. Actually in the main the whines were quite correct, but that is not the point I was making.

Thing is, it's very easy to attack those in power when you are not in a position of power (do it quite regular myself ;) ), but you and the others have been conspicuous by your absence on all community related threads since gaining power. The heat is now on, and you and your party are staying out of the kitchen.

It's a poor excuse for a politician, that you are staying clear because you are not being believed, if that happened in Parliament nobody would ever attend. Don't think a single person on this forum is naive enough to believe in 'cure-alls' but they do tend to believe in debate and counter argument.

Thanks for biting back though :)

Re: someone best mention it
 

Anytime....

I can't speak for anyone else but I recall one particular thread that just descended into me repeating myself over and over about benches and every clear answer I gave was spun into some form of lie. I've got better things to do with my time than argue with people who won't take my public statements in print as the truth.

I've never shied away from a direct question or good debate but I'm not going to find answers for people and then justify my answers to prove that I'm not lying or covering up.

Or would you prefer a politician's answer?

;)

Re: someone best mention it
 

Could do with being more punchy for a t-shirt :D

Re: someone best mention it
 

How about "Voting Is Bollox"?:D

Re: someone best mention it
 

It is if you have no idea what you're voting for.

Politicians of all levels have a duty to make things clear what they're getting for their cross on the ballot sheet.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Hmmmm. Well, when one thing is promised, and something different is delivered you can understand why a lot of us feel pretty peed off.
And sometimes politico speak is about as intelligible as monkey language....but that (I suspect) is done on purpose to baffle and befuddle.

It is very poor when a large proportion of the electorate(and no, of course I can't quantify it...it is anecdotal)do not trust their elected representative.....whether that be at a local level(and I know local politics is a totoally different ball game) or a national level.

People aren't not voting because they are too lazy to stir their stumps, they are not voting because it seems as though it changes very little for us who live here in the real world.
I am only one vote, but if my vote is the one which decides the result, then I should be able to feel that my voice will be heard....and at present I don't have that confidence.

Re: someone best mention it
 

As usual Marg I can't argue with anything you've put and I totally agree.

It still amazes me how many politicians won't give a straight yes or no on TV, if I did that in Rishton people would soon lose their patience with me.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Thats the trouble Ken, Yeh think yeh got some idea what yer voting fer n then many times it wasn't, so then it becomes bollox. Don't expect yeh to agree fer a min, but perhaps when yeh get to my age, yeh will get it?

Re: someone best mention it
 

Don't need to wait that long mate, can see it plain as day now.

That's why this promise of an EU referendum doesn't fool me for a second.

There'll be some excuse why it can't happen once Cameron is back in Number 10 without the Lib Dems in tow.

Re: someone best mention it
 

That referendum promise,i would doubt if it even fools opposition in his own party. But Labour are too dense to see the public view, or even consult wi public giving full facts "Pluses @ Minuses" The arrogance of Ed n his cronies is really pathetic in my view, Though we are obviously "To thick to get it":rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

theres a post on here somewhere and not too long ago showing someones twitter conversation with graham jones refusing to give a straight answer if he thought the MP'S payrise was unjustified so its not just on TV its basically any question asked.

ill see if i can dig it out

i suppose been a MP is like going to prison in that once in a place surrounded by crooks your gonna pick up some new tricks lol

in the interest of balance all parties are full of crooks and liars

Re: someone best mention it
 

A 32% pay rise????? Try 1.85% and that's only if the rules change.

I wouldn't begrudge an MP that increase, mainly because I wouldn't want their job.

I'd give pretty much anyone a month doing that before they realise that there is no gravy train.

Re: someone best mention it
 

A straight question,

Would you agree you have got the above arse about face?

Surely it is a politicians duty to make things clear what they are offering, to gain a cross on the ballot sheet.

Or are you planning to become an MP and you are getting your priorities out of the way so that people will have forgotten by the time they get to the hustings?
:)

Re: someone best mention it
 

No, just a foul up, pure and simple. Oops!

I believe the standard response in this situation is to say that I have no ambitions in that direction.

Which honestly seriously I don't. Very happy to leave it to Graham.

Re: someone best mention it
 

%32 does seem a tad high but i wouldnt put it past them if they thought they could get away with it but my main point is that even our homegrown MP cant answer a question straight and besides he could have answered with what you basically put and corrected the %32 issue but teh question was completely evaded.

seems to me the first lesson in politics is to talk so much crap the question gets lost or the person asking it gets fed up goes away

Re: someone best mention it
 

Bit higher than 1.85%..

Majority of Members of Parliament believe they are underpaid - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

I'm so tired of the 'politicians work very hard' argument. Some of them do, I exclude the Gordon Brown type, but they ain't the only ones.....

I got mail on Saturday morning, postman had walked 4 miles in a blizzard to get to work, once there he again braved the nasty conditions just to make sure I got some e-liquid for my plastic fag.....Care workers trudged in to ensure peoples grannies got looked after..nurses, power maintenance workers, police ferrying hot drinks in treacherous conditions to people stuck on the M6.....thats REAL work, and they are all underpaid.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Ken, while you would not want to do the job of an MP, it seems(looking from the outside) that this career is quite lucrative.........and I know that to do the job properly you have to divide your time between your constituency and the Palace of Westminster, but you don't see raggedy MP's out looking for the best bargains in food, because they have an expense account to pay for it...which other job allows you to eat at the expense of the customer.......or have a roof over your head at the expense of the customer.
They all seem to be able to travel by train(something that some of us cannot afford to do)without it breaking their bank........and all the while they are an MP they have an eye on what they will do once that lucrative career is over...they network........heck some of them even moonlight while they are MP's.
My heart bleeds purple pee for the poor(and I mean that in financial terms) souls.

Re: someone best mention it
 

I do take your point and can see it from both sides of the fence but I look at it from the angle of just basically having very little private time and somewhat dodgy job security.

Now I realise that the second of those arguments sounds pretty flimsy in today's age where no one has a 'job for life' anymore, but the continued employment of an MP does not depend entirely on them working hard for their constituency or even the prosperity of their employer but on the whim of the people on voting day and which colour banner is flavour of the month.

With that in mind, I don't blame any of them for trying to make sure that if the worst comes to the worst they don't find themselves down the dole queue the morning after they are summarily ejected from the House of Commons.

In Graham's case, I proudly cast my ballot in his favour and genuinely think he works hard for us all.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Ken, are you getting a little obsessive, we don't see you on site very often so perhaps you have forgotten, we have more than one thread, why not take a look around you might find another thread to whet your appetite beside just posting in this one.

Re: someone best mention it
 

Just one attributable quote in that whole fantastical story, and even that is taken out of context. I'm always wary of phrases such as 'substantial numbers' and anonymous quotes from 'sources' which is why I don't bother with the national newspapers.

For a more balanced and factual report try the BBC:

BBC News - Pay freeze for MPs to continue until 2013

Re: someone best mention it
 

Bit of thread wander Less, my apologies. Just replying to questions levelled at me.

It's what I'm supposed to do as an elected representative, isn't it?

;)

Re: someone best mention it
 

Have Labour given up already ? :D:D

Re: someone best mention it
 

i forgetthe figure but just one term as a MP carrys quite a large pension until the day they die that isnt to be sniffed at and wouldnt leave them starving or coppering up from the whiskey jar to get a bag of chips

Re: someone best mention it
 

Um I know I was in dock for 9 weeks last back end but is it 2012 or 2013 and time for a bumper MPs pay rise:rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

Accyman, you took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to post something along the same lines in response to Kens post, but now there is no need.
Even Ex MP's don't seem so impoverished and they have the advantage of having(during their political career) of meeting lots of people who they can tap up for a return of favours(and, please don't tell me that it doesn't happen - the tapping up, and the giving of favours - because I don't buy it).

I'm not getting at you Ken...and I have to say that your position is far different from that of our elected representative.
I wish I could say that he would get my vote too, but I am still hacked off by the EU thing(please don't go there).

I know that a general election is a good while off, but I cannot think of any current political party that deserves my vote.

Re: someone best mention it
 

me neither Margaret, but it could just be wistful thinking in my case:rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

if i am correct graham also has a job on the lancashire county council so it cant be that hard representing us if he can do that job as well

both jobs are full time jobs its amazing he ever sleeps

Re: someone best mention it
 

County isn't a full time job accyman but can be made so if you get a top cabinet post, Whereas being an MP is a full time job, how somebody can actually combine the two though is quite beyond be, but I suppose getting paid twice must be something of a draw card:rolleyes:

Re: someone best mention it
 

County Council is not a full time job but he isn't standing again this May because he doesn't feel he can do both.

Bernard Dawson is standing for the Labour Party instead in that seat.

Re: someone best mention it
 

He should have thought that three years ago the greedy grabbing sod

Re: someone best mention it
 

If he's so greedy then why did he give up his district seat and step aside as Leader of the Labour Group? He could have been Leader of the Council, Burnley's MP has made the decision to have all those roles at once in the past.

Graham wanted to maintain his County role to keep abreast of things but in the end it proved a bigger job than he imagined. At least he is a man who can admit when a decision is not in the best interests of the public and the money thing is a cheap shot, I expected better of you.

Especially with certain ex-mates of yours clutching at straws to justify £43k a year.

Re: someone best mention it
 

http://stopemploymentwrongs.org/wp-c...tive-880px.jpg

David Cameron has been talking a lot recently about his aim of ‘re-negotiating’ the UK’s relationship with Europe, and ‘repatriating’ regulations that originate with the EU.

The Working Time Directive is a set of work related regulations at the top of many Conservatives’ lists to overturn.

But stepping away from the EU jargon on the issue, this legislation contains a lot of very basic protections at work that people in the UK now take totally for granted – holidays, lunchbreaks, days off and more.

I think a sensible debate on the EU where people can make up their own mind based on their lives is critical. #forgetstraightbananas

Re: someone best mention it
 

i have no doubt a tory government would abuse the poor and working class they already are doing but when labour were in charge they did absolutely nothing but sell us down the EU river even more without so much of a hint of ever throwing us a paddle or life belt

seems to me that polititions are at their best when out of power which isnt any good to anyone.

the very second it all began with something as trivial as not selling bananas that were too straight the government should have told the EU in no uncertain terms to sod off and either stop been stupid or we would pull out.What happened was that teh government took the EU crap by the bucket load up until the point where our courts got over ruled and we are forced to keep terrorists safe and warm.

if anyone thinks cameron will keep his word over the EU or thinks he is any way doing it for the good of the british public then they need tehir head seeing too but labour for example have in no way said what they are preppared to do and most importantly keep their word

Re: someone best mention it
 

Words, words, words and more weasel words from all sides.
No actions........I am fed up of reading about what politicians are going to do.
My faith in these words is positively subterranean....and why might this be do you think?
Because it is no good any party telling us what they are going to do and then not following this with decisive action.
Tony Blair was going to tackle crime...by tackling the causes of crime....did it happen? NO...of course it didn't.
David Cameron is going to give us an opportunity to decide our future in the EU.....but wiat for it....not until after the NEXT election....and then only if the tories get back into power....by which time there will be countless Romanians and Bulgarians....who no doubt will have a say in whether we stay in or not.......so I think this chance of a referendum is a MYTH........it is a cynical ploy to entice people to vote for DC.
I'm not buying it

Re: someone best mention it
 

if we hold a referendum the only people who should get a vote are those born here

whats the point in holding a vote where people who have just arrived to teh country can influence the outcome

Re: someone best mention it
 

So, you're telling me my missus wouldn't get a vote? Despite the fact she's lived here 27 years, paid her full whack of tax and national insurance while workng for the NHS? But some British-born chav who's never done a day's work in his life will get a vote?

Utter crap.

Re: someone best mention it
 

fair point but something should be done to prevent someone whos just used the eu system and dropped from the underneath of a truck from having a say and in fairness i did say people who have just arrived to the country but i see your point on the born here part.

Re: someone best mention it
 

And what pray tell is to stop us from creating our own laws on working time...is the British Government too stupid to create it's own set of fair and unbiased employee/employer laws without guidance from Eurocrats? #forumsdontneedhashtags

Re: someone best mention it
 

Only British citizens are able to vote in general elections, so surely that would apply to any referendum? Certainly, illegals can't vote and I'm pretty sure those from other EU countries can't either.

Re: someone best mention it
 

in all honesty i dont know what rights they do and do not have.After all prisoners now get a vote so god knows whats ok and not ok these days

Re: someone best mention it
 

Don't think prisoners have actually got the vote yet, although the meddlers of the ECHR are pushing for it. Definitely sure that only British citizens can vote in general elections though, so the same would apply to referendums I would have thought.

Re: someone best mention it
 

It taken him three years to find that out, and as for a cheap shot it's money the council tax payer have had ripped out of their pockets he's been trousering twice for those three years, if it were Britcliffe you would be jumping through hoops to tells use what a thieving swine he was, and from what I hear Jones is still the figure head behind the scenes at HBC if he says jump the rest of you say how high master.

Re: someone best mention it
 

They can't Wyn your right, well I'm saying that but it certainly was the case when I was actively involved, but Europe has done lots of silly things since those days;)

Re: someone best mention it
 

I think in your good ladies case Wyn she would qualify after being residential for a certain number of years and quite rightly so, but the ones using European law to come over here shouldn't get a anywhere near a ballot box

Re: someone best mention it
 

He won't answer that Guinness because he'll need to ask Mr Ed first;)