Re: What Are They Going To Ban Next????
 

sorry to bring the topic back up but look what i found.



http://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ages/clear.gifFoxes 'Suffer More Under Hunt Ban'http://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ages/clear.gifhttp://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/fox_hunting.jpghttp://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ages/clear.gifhttp://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ages/clear.gifNew academic research has proven that the ban on hunting, and the subsequent rise in foxes being shot, has resulted in an increase in the suffering of the animalshttp://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ages/clear.gif
By Holly Kirkwood
http://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ages/clear.gifhttp://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ne_dot_art.gifhttp://www.countrylife.co.uk/images/...ages/clear.gifMonday, May 3 2005

Work done by researchers commissioned by the Middle Way Group has confirmed suspicions that shooting causes more harm to foxes than hunting with dogs, as many are injured and left to die over long periods of time.

The study, which is printed in Animal Welfare, the journal of the Universities Federation for Animal Welfare, has shown that up to half of all foxes which are shot are wounded and not killed.

The MWG commissioned the study in 2002 and it has just been thoroughly peer reviewed. It contradicts the pre-ban claims of some animal rights groups that shooting was more humane than hunting a fox using dogs.

Lembit Öpik, co-founder of the group, said: 'The research proves conclusively that the pro-ban groups were plain wrong. In many cases guns don't kill the fix outright, leading to large numbers of wounded animals.

'Many end up dying over hours, days or even weeks. We've long suspected that shooting does not reduce suffering. After all, with dogs it's all or nothing.'

Lady Golding who is co-chairman of the group, added: 'The next Government must look again at the Hunting Act and replace it with genuine animal welfare measures.'

Do you have any news stories for Countrylife.co.uk? Email the News Desk

Re: What Are They Going To Ban Next????
 

Re: What Are They Going To Ban Next????
 

Speaking of the government going out of its way to ban things that it has no business meddling with - a number of years back the Governor of NJ had the Health Department ban restaurants from selling eggs unless the yolks were cooked hard, as a means of preventing salmonella. Of course, many folks who wanted their fried eggs without petrified yolks (or Ceasar salads made in the traditional manner) decided to just save the bother and cook them at home. The howl that went up from the restaurant owners quickly got that regulation changed.

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Re: What Are They Going To Ban Next????
 

I think that the only thing "liable" to happen in such a case is that I could be "re-liably" counted on to get up from my table and take my business elsewhere.

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One has to laugh at all the stupid rules that come out.My brother had a car accident and the insurance company wanted to pay him 40% less comopensation out.The reason being he must accept that whenever he gets in to his car is that there is a 40% chance of him having an accident.Of course it was quashed in court

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I can't say as I sympathise with you about the nongs who think these silly rules or bans for this ,that an'tother. We have ,in Oz, loads of dipsticks too. We had the head of the victoria branch of RSPCA call for a ban on insect spray because it was cruel to flies and bugs. Daft sod lost his job not long after. Funny that:D

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terry are they not going to have that cull on camels yet ? you seem to be getting overun with them down there.

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no they are not they took the hump so they banned it!!

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:D :D We don't just have camels that need culling. Allthough I'm not sure that they are culled. There are all the other introduced animals that have turned feral. Camels,horses,cattle sheep,pigs(these are dangerous) dogs, cats, foxes,ferrets,rabbits. The country is so big they can go anywhere. If they find a niche to survive in the're home and hosed. Unfortunately, we can't help to rid them anymore because of the Port Arthur massacre some years ago when some clown shot to death about 40+ people with his semi-automatic. Now we can't have any guns at all without a very legitimate reason. (not that i didn't use mine sensibly) Consequently, I can't even go after my favourite game, the humble rabbit, and there's plenty of them up here despite the rabbit fence. I haven't tasted one for 15 years. Apart from the fact that the rabbit is totally banned in Queensland, even as a pet. The Vic butchers have 'em but that's too far away.:) There are camel safaris in the outback where you can hire a camel.:)

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do you think the government will let in a load of hounds,horses and huntsman, not forgetting the courseing gentlemen who used to keep the farmers fields clear of these succulent little vermin!

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Just a word or three about the hunting ban. In days of old when men were bold they hunted to put food on what passed for a table. In this day and age we have no need to hunt for food so now they do it for sport and claim that it is a tradition going back centuries. To justify their cruel sport they claim that hunting with hounds is the only way to control foxes. Hogwash! The hunt is a blood sport, nothing less and takes place to satisfy the blood lust of some people.

Indeed any so called sport that means an animal is injured or killed should be banned and that includes fishing for sport. Although I see nothing wrong in fishing for your supper and I would see nothing wrong in hunting a fox if it was taken home and eaten. But it isn’t. It is chased and ripped apart for the thrill of the chase.

If man and woman wants to participate in a sport they should not use animals to achieve a result.
But pixie you are quite happy to breathe in killer vehicle exhaust fumes. Seems to be a rather odd approach!


I wonder have any of the anti-smoking brigade walked down the street when the traffic alongside comes to a stop for lights or something and they get a face full of exhaust fumes? Did they tap on the driver’s window and complain? No of course not! They would get told where to go.


When you are in your car, anti-smoker, not you pixie, stuck behind a lorry belching smoke and noxious gasses that get right up your nose, do you flag down the driver and explain that his vehicle is polluting your air? When stuck in a traffic jam and the air is foul with fumes, does anyone nip out of their car and remonstrate with the nearest driver?


So why pick on the smoker?


If you anti-smoker are going to castigate the smoker for polluting your air, shouldn’t you also go after drivers who do far, far worse than a few fags?


Oh! I get it! You drive or use public transport so it’s OK to pollute other people’s air but you don’t smoke so we must not do so either or at least do so away from your lungs.


A classic case of hypocrisy if ever there were one.

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Talk about dredging up an old response...

Where did I state that I was quite happy to breathe in "killer vehicle" exhaust fumes?
As I stated on page 2 of this discussion, I do not smoke and do not drive. I walk everywhere as its easier with a pram and my workplace is within walking distance. I try and avoid busy roads as much as possible because I prefer myself and my son to get fresh air.

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them jockys would sure look strange galloping around a race track with no horses

and could you please explain how the hell i am supposed to go badger baiting without a badger to bait

ps:

most fishermen throw the fish back as it is now the policy to do so at registered places to fish but i have to admit the fish's screams of pain when you remove the hook can send chills down your spine

anyway i cant stop and chat ive got a dancing bear to train up for my kids birthday party :)

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cruel sport have you seen how they do away with animals to put on your table all the s..t they leave in it to make it look better, a friend of mine went to do a job at a burger making place all he saw was a 30ft by 30ft steel plate on a wall your carcasses was sent along this wall and all the meat and sinew was blasted off with air compression onto this wall and a big shammy was sent across to clean it this disposing all the c..p into a bin that was then put into the burger mix, hope you enjoy your next burger!think what your kids are going to eat next?????

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i think killing a cow for burgers is just plain sick

best to kill them young and get veal :D

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A good start pixie but did you not have a response to the rest of my argument? Could you not bring yourself to admit that you have never remonstrated with a driver about the filth coming out of the back of his/her vehicle but you are quite prepared to condemn a smoker?

OK! So you didn’t actually say that you were happy to breathe in killer exhaust fumes but you object to second hand smoke yet do not object to first hand exhaust fumes so if you don’t object you must approve by default.

It may be dredging up an old response but it is no older than the anti-smoking campaign with what it costs the NHS etc.

Your fresh air that you claim to breathe is not as fresh as you think. It is polluted by exhaust fumes and industry far more than by tobacco smoke. The only reason that you don’t notice it is because it is there all the time and you have got used to it. You can get used to working in a cess pit after a while and not smell the contents.

Take down this fact. The prevalence of asthma in the young is increasing and has been for the last twenty years. By a strange coincidence the motor vehicle has also proliferated in that time and the incidence of smoking has gone DOWN.

Just think as you walk down the road with a toddler by your side. His/her head is barely 3 feet above the ground, which is inches above where the vehicles spew out their poison. Kids in pushchairs are even more prone. Those poor souls are closer to the ground and thus just about get the full force of an exhaust straight into their faces and lungs.

Go for smokers by all means but go for a far worse killer the internal combustion engine as well or risk being labelled an out and out hypocrite. If you don’t fancy your chances tackling a driver about his air pollution then you have no just right to go after tobacco smokers.
There is nothing strange about athletics where human beings gallop (race) around a racetrack. chav1. At least they do so on their own two feet and not on the back of an animal driving it on with the occasional, or even continual, swipe with a whip. A horse is a flight animal rather than a fight animal and humans are exploiting this character to force the horse to run as fast as it can in order to win a race. A lion is a fight animal so let’s see the human exploit that character and fight the lion.

Yes I have seen how a well run abattoir kills animals staggeringman and no I don’t eat burgers and when my kids were at home (the youngest is 32 now) they didn’t get burgers either unless we made them ourselves from a cut of meat. We didn’t eat processed meat other than corned beef.

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Seeing as how most of them tend to be IN cars and theres me on foot I can't say I have. I learned my Green Cross Code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty OK! So you didn’t actually say that you were happy to breathe in killer exhaust fumes but you object to second hand smoke yet do not object to first hand exhaust fumes so if you don’t object you must approve by default.

Says who? Since when?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty Just think as you walk down the road with a toddler by your side. His/her head is barely 3 feet above the ground, which is inches above where the vehicles spew out their poison. Kids in pushchairs are even more prone. Those poor souls are closer to the ground and thus just about get the full force of an exhaust straight into their faces and lungs.

Which is why I tend to avoid the busier roads. I am not disputing what you say here, I just do my bit to reduce my sons exposure to such fumes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty Go for smokers by all means but go for a far worse killer the internal combustion engine as well or risk being labelled an out and out hypocrite. If you don’t fancy your chances tackling a driver about his air pollution then you have no just right to go after tobacco smokers.

I'll run that risk thank you very much. The main difference as I see it is that smoking is done purely for personal pleasure. It serves no purpose whatsoever.

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[QUOTE=staggeringman]:drink: what is the government going to ban next? yes there are a lot of people out there who agree and a lot that dont.the do gooders have nearly got there way in banning a tradition that goes back to the egyptions.... HUNTING...something that has been the way of life for man since time began,today i picked up the paper and read that the vegitarians now want to ban fish and chips...can you believe it ...fish and chips

If you belive everything you read when you "pick up your paper" then I suggest you really have gone out with the fairys.. ban fish AND chips? what have potatoes got to do with it?

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trust me when the loonies have run out of animals to protect they will start defending the rights of vegetables

kinda looking after their own kind if you will ;)


i for one am against animal cruelty and when i had a mice infestation i used those humane mouse traps that simply trap the mouse so you can empty the trap elswhere and let the mouse run free

i should however mention i own a corn snake and it was pretty interesting to see how the snake crushed the mouses spine and ate it alive still twitching as it slid down the snakes throat when i emptied the trap into its tank

thank god for HUMANE mouse traps they saved me buying frozen mice for a few weeks :D

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I’m not attacking you personally pixie as you stated in this ‘karma’ thing, it is just that you represent the anti-smoking brigade who target the hapless smoker whilst ignoring and even condoning the motor vehicle.

Just a small aside. It is a pity that some people do not have the courage to make their insulting comments in public forum rather than hiding them anonymously in this ‘karma’ thing. Who was it who didn’t have the moral guts to call me an ar.se.ho.le in public but had to hide it in a karma? I challenge you to show yourself and make your snide comment in full view of the forum members. Same goes for the karma comment of “not a valid argument”. Is that the best that you can do “not valid argument”? Make a ludicrous comment and not explain why I don’t have a valid argument.

So as you see it pixie, ‘the main difference is that smoking is done for personal pleasure’ is it and driving around to the shops, the school run, visiting, going on holiday etc is not done for pleasure or convenience. It’s a necessity is it? Sorry but in the main there is public transport to take people to the shops or school or visiting friends and even for going on holiday. What’s that? How do you get onto a bus with three kids and umpteen bags of shopping? With difficulty or you leave the kids at home with a baby sitter. We managed in the forties, fifties, sixties and even seventies. So why can’t we manage now? But it’s so much easier and more convenient to use a car to load all the shopping in and so much quicker than waiting around for a bus. Yes it is and fifty cars pollute much more than a bus, even one that belches noxious fumes and there are plenty of them around.

Let me acquaint you with some stark facts. A car with a one litre engine travelling at 30 mph will have the engine revving at around 3,000rpm. That is 3,000 litres of pollution every single minute. In ten minutes that car will have polluted the atmosphere with 30,000 litres of noxious gasses. In that same ten minutes one person would smoke just one fag. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the quantity of smoke that produces? Let us be really generous and suggest 100 litres – that is 300 times less than that car. Most cars have a larger capacity engine than one litre and thus will produce more gasses than the example above.

‘Smoking serves no purpose whatsoever’ pixie? As a non-smoker you wouldn’t know what purpose smoking achieves and that is a fatuous statement to make.

It would be too much of a personal inconvenience to curtail the use of cars so we ignore the effect on our atmosphere and effectively condone the pollution. But just because a non-smoker would not be inconvenienced by curtailing smoking they target the smoker and the car is sacrosanct. There is the hypocrisy.

Sadly in the last ten or twenty years society has degenerated into a me, me, me, me, me society with hardly a thought for their fellow man/woman. That is a generalisation so don’t come back with the “I care for others” answer. You are the exception.

Has anyone noticed that as you reach and pass retirement age you start to become invisible in shopping precincts, supermarkets, anywhere where there are crowds of people and even whilst driving? “Sorry I didn’t see you” is the standard excuse as someone tried to barge pass knocking you aside.

I’m not attacking the car because everyone uses a vehicle either personally or to have goods delivered to shops. We all contribute to the atmospheric pollution that is the bane of our lives but the motor vehicle does much more than tobacco ever did and to just target smokers is hypocritical in the extreme. Sadly the non-smokers are not prepared to accept that as vehicle users they cause far more pollution than thousands of fags. “We can pollute because the car/lorry is necessary and smoking is not” is the only pseudo rationale they can come up with.

Just a reminder to the anti-smoking lobby. Next time that a neighbour lights up their barbecue or creates a garden waste bonfire in their back garden or on the 5th of November lights a proper bonfire for the kids, go and knock on his front door and ask him to put the fire out because the smoke is offending you. See what you get!

Not too far from where I live there is a haulage depot that has been decreed a no smoking area by the management. Workers who want a smoke have to clear the entire premises and stand on the road to puff away. Yet the yard contains dozens of lorry tractors all moving around connecting, disconnecting and moving the trailers around and of course belching out tons and tons of cough inducing exhaust fumes not to mention the passing traffic on the road. The yard and office staff is subjected to breathing in this filth yet they cannot stand a bit of tobacco smoke. OK! So this situation is down to government edicts but it does show how ridiculous the edicts are.

Get yourself round to my flat WillowTheWisp when twice a day during school time the air is chokingly thick with disgusting vehicle exhaust fumes from the traffic that congregates close to the school gates across the road and waits with engines running. It is only with the blessing of a decent breeze that doesn’t quite dispel the fumes before the next lot invades everything and I mean everything.

I have knocked on a car window and asked the driver to switch off the engine because the engine fumes were pervading my flat and what did I get? A load of abuse and was even threatened on one occasion. At 68 and registered disabled I am no match for the driver so I have to go away and suffer in silence.

I have no idea how old you are WillowTheWisp but just when did you find this urge to wash your hair and clothes after being in a smoke filled room? Early teens perhaps or is it a touch of recently jumping on the bandwagon because you are a non-smoker and have come across an opportunity to have your opinion forced onto others?

Verb sap!

Now I am off to enjoy my Sunday lunch followed by a nice mug of tea and a relaxing fag and rejoice in the fact that today is Sunday and the school is closed so that I can breathe in a relatively pollution free atmosphere or at least one of my own making.

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Ok then jambutty, you tell me what purpose, other than personal pleasure, smoking achieves.:rolleyes:

I'm a non smoker and I don't drive. Therefore I don't pollute either way. I use public transport if its necessary for me to go out of town.

And I might add that you wouldn't understand the urge, sudden or otherwise, to wash your hair and clothes after being in a smoky room. I honestly don't think that smokers notice the smell as much, but it is awful to non smokers. Don't knock Willow just because she prefers to be clean, rather than smell of stale smoke. Its exactly what I do if I have been in a smoky room, or ifI have been out to the pub or whatever.

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pixie can you imagine me trying to give up smoking everyone saying you are doing well and then lighting up,i have seen customers give up and they still come in,if the government where going to ban it outright they would are should i say if they shut down all the makers of tobbacco,fags cigars they would lose that much revenue you would think you where living in buckingham palace because of the shortfall in money going in the coffers....(pun)...sorry...he...hee the only places that there is going to be a total ban is the places they serve food and working mens clubs.This ban has only come about because of claims made from barstaff not joe public,because if a non-smoker did not want to go in a pub/bar where there is a lot of smoking they would not go in simple as that.

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i am a smoker and i personaly think their shoudl be smoking pubs and non smoking pubs so people can choose

we have a non smoking pub in accy already and it would be nice to see more

well it was a non smoking pub ime not sure if it still is ( the one that used to be millers next to the railway station)

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now called accringtons pride never see it open at nights seems to be a glorified cafe that can sell ale.

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i must admit that i have been fighting against the evil weed for the past 2 years and when i am in one of my non smoking phases the smell knocks me sick but no body makes me goto pubs i choose to put up with it and the booze helps me cope lol

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it would do if blokade was still open ....lol

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OK! WillowTheWisp you’ve found cigarette smoke nauseating for 40 years or more. Can you honestly put your hand on your heart and declare that in all that time you have campaigned against smokers or is it as I suggested that you are adding your voice to the rest when in the past you kept silent. That’s called jumping on the band wagon.

I have just read through my post very, very carefully and nowhere does it even hint at suggesting that you force other people to wash their hair. So what was “Did I ever say I was forcing other people to wash their hair?” all about? Oh! I get it. Muddying the waters to deflect from the real discussion.

Nowhere have I suggested that smokers should be able to smoke where they choose and I respect yours or anyone else’s right to declare their own property smoke free or anything else free as they choose. My argument is about the hypocrisy of the anti-smoking lobby as they complain about passive smoking and then drive away in their cars.

I agree entirely that non-smokers should not be subjected to tobacco fumes in restaurants or pubs but if non-smokers have the right not to be infected by noxious fumes then I have the same right not to be affected by lethal vehicle exhaust fumes. I suppose that when I find some overpowering perfumes and aftershaves sickening I have to put up with it.

Why won’t the anti-smokers admit that their use of motor vehicles pollutes the atmosphere far more than tobacco ever has? They won’t because it would mean that they would be grossly inconvenienced if a campaign against the motor vehicle were launched with the same success as the anti-smoking campaign. If the non-smokers are not prepared to be inconvenienced by not having cars then why should I be inconvenienced by not smoking? We ALL have the same rights!

“Why should I have to suffer?” You shouldn’t but why should I suffer your car exhaust fumes if you drive or the fumes from the public transport that you use or the fumes from lorries that deliver food and other goods to the shops where you do your shopping? What makes your rights more important than mine or anyone else’s?

Any argument you can put up against smoking, I can put up the same argument against cars etc. But there are more cars than there is smokers so let majority rule and ban the motor vehicle. Like anyone else I wouldn’t be happy with a ban on cars because I DEPEND on one to get about so if vehicles are not to be banned even though they pollute far more than tobacco smoke, then neither should smoking.

Each property owner should be able to decide for themselves whether to allow smoking or not and let market forces decide if they made the right decision.

Smoking provides billions of pounds for the exchequer pixie and gives employment to those involved in the manufacture, distribution, sale of tobacco products and collection of taxes imposed on them.

So pixie, because you don’t smoke and you don’t drive you don’t contribute to pollution do you? Yet in the very next sentence you admit to using public transport and that does not pollute? Do you shop at shops that get their goods delivered by horse and cart? No! The goods are delivered by motor transport. I assume that you use electricity in your home or gas. Electricity is generated in power stations that burn gas or oil and the pollution from them is second to the aircraft. When you turn on your gas cooker, if you have one, the gas you burn creates pollution, as does the gas used in central heating or gas fires. Have you ever been on holiday abroad and flown there? Aircraft - the greatest polluters of them all.

In a nut shell we all pollute simply by being here and utilising the resources available to us. So what makes one form of pollution more of a target than other forms? Is it not hypocritical to complain about someone smoking and you find the smell nauseating etc whilst at the same time ignoring a smoker’s claim that vehicle exhaust fumes are just as nauseating to them? Of course it is but the self-righteous non-smokers will not admit it and continue in their pompous way.

It’s the ‘holier than thou’ attitude of the anti-smoking brigade that sticks in my craw.

Are there any non-smokers out there prepared to admit that if they want smoking to be banned because of the pollution to their air, they should also campaign just as vociferously against vehicle exhaust pollution? If you don’t mind I won’t hold my breath.

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I agree with Jambutty that EVERYONE'S rights are important. I believe that pubs should have non-smoking areas where possible. That said, how can you sit with your friends if they are smokers and you are not? One London lung surgeon (yes, he is a smoker!) has said that walking the length of Oxford Street carries as much pollution into the lungs as smoking 40 cigarettes.

We can't and shouldn't ban everything - just give people a choice.

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but why dont they horses walk away from it if they dont like it

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A good senario....... ban all cars ..done.... now we have a problem how are you smokers going to get to hospital when you have chronic bronchitis, atherosclerosis, Blockage to the vascular supply to the legs, etc... do you expect to be carried? you should be light enough an average weight loss of about 5st when you get cancer.

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a no smoking section and smoking section in a pub is about as effective as having a peeing and non peeing section in the swimming baths


forget where i heard that one but thought it appropiate :-)

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obviousley you go running in the park!like all yanks do,its keep fit year (yo jethro you are right man)so lets cut down on the smoking and the illicet rye we drink and get fit for AMERICA!

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Looking at it in a normal way, i would think that any resort would have a park and walk facility.You park up outside the resort and then get on free transport to the centre.Thus keeping all the pollution away from the centre.Free transport would be subsidised by the money earnt on the parking spaces.Keeping the centre of the resort vehicle free.

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Go running in the park? Let's not an just say that we did.

I'd prefer to get my exercise strolling to the pub, lifting pints, holding up the bar, and staggering home after. The only running I'd care to do is runing up a tab.:engsmil: Love those UK pubs.

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is there nowt like this over there billcat?

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Okay, here's the latest lunacy. The Nanny State is going to introduce legislation to make all bath taps thermostatically controlled at a lowish temperature, starting with newly built homes and eventually extending it to all homes. Why? Because out of 55 million of us, 600 people a year manage to scald themselves in baths! Fine to do this for elderly and confused folk, who may forget that they have run a very hot bath - but for the rest of us? Also, they don't have to pay for it, we apparently do.

Do we ban road traffic next because some idiots jaywalk?

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It's like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. If we'd had this legislation a few years ago we might still have Princess Margaret. That's a thought. Will it become known as Maggie's Law? :)

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Errm Nanny State has already been here. We have just taken over a new industrial unit in Blackpool and not only does it have a specially kitted out disabled loo, but there is also a little pump attached to the hot water system which mixes cold water with the hot before it comes out of the tap. This surely is taking Health and Safety far too far. What next, every employee to be swathed in bubble wrap before they start work?

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Harumph! Not amused at all; I like my baths HOT and when the water cools down I put more hot in! It hasn't done me any harm in the last 37 years!:(

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havent had a bath in years!i am building up my anti-bodies for when i need them!...lol

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Love the bit about bubble wrap - can we do that, please!!

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What adults do about their baths in their own homes in, frankly, their business, at least for as long as they own that home. If they wish to sell, then the home ought to meet the standard. Public facilities, however, should be required to meet the standard.

There are many people who need to be protected from overly hot water. Young children are much more prone to scalding (and at far lower temperatures) than adults, and the smaller ones can do little but scream if the water becomes too hot - at least until they grow big enough to control the water themselves. While most scalding incidents are minor, there are still many cases of scarring and death can even result

Also, there are many adults who suffer from neuropathy and cannot tell if the water is too hot. I speak from personal experience as my wife, having had diabetes for many years, has had neuropathy coming on for a long time. There is very little remaining feeling in her feet and legs, which makes the risk of serious injury very real indeed. It's not exactly a rare problem. Systems that either limit the water temperature and/or cut off the flow if there is a sudden spike in temperature are a wise precaution, both for our home and in public places. The cost of doing this is not exactly a major burden.

Also, while we all depend on the water pressure remaining as set, in homes with older plumbing the flush of a toilet elsewhere in the house can cause a sudden dip in cold water pressure, causing the temperature in the shower to quickly spike to scalding temperatures. I'm not sure how the liability laws work in the UK, but I'm sure that building owners (and their insurers) in the USA would prefer to take reasonable measures to prevent scalding, and reduce the risk of injuring people - especially if the result is favorable to their insurance premiums!

I got to wondering if people complained about the cost of having to install indoor plumbing and sewage treatment, rather than the inexpensive and ever-so-picturesque backyard loo, not to mention those quaint, frequent, and exciting cholera epidemics that were the result of old fashioned neighborhood wells and those loos.

Not quite sure why Acrylic-Bob wishes to take issue with having diabled loos available. The simple addition of these facilities in our workplaces and public facilities make it possible for many disabled folks to continue to support themselves and continue to have a life, instead of becoming a burden on their families and the taxpaying public. They don't make things any less convenient for ordinary folks, as they can also use the accessible loo if they need to. The additional cost is much more reasonable when done as part of new construction, especially when compared with the cost of retrofitting handicapped facilities in existing buildings.

Re: What Are They Going To Ban Next????
 

what are they going to ban next..?

driller :D

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LOL! Good one, chav1!

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here we go now they have banned hunting with dogs,the do gooders are now aiming(pun) at shooting! the do gooders claim that the people who run the shoots are laying down snares and other traps to protect there livestock ...ie pheasants ...etc so when do the burglars put a complaint into the government saying that people are over protecting there houses and possesions? its only the same inn-it?http://www.countryside-alliance.org/...g%20banner.jpg

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>> Not quite sure why Acrylic-Bob wishes to take issue with having diabled loos available.<<

I take issue, if that is what I am doing, because it seems indicative of the general "one size fits all" approach to problem solving that the current government adopts. The business I run relies on people being agile and fit to handle heavy weights and be manually dextrous and in full posession of all five senses. The installation of a loo for disabled folk might be a nice idea but it is a waste of resources and floor space and adds unnecessarily to the maintainance bill, since it will never be used ( which is perhaps not strictly true, we actually use it as a store room).

I agree that there has to be a place in the workforce for the disabled, it would be foolish and blinkered to suggest anything else. Just as it is foolish and blinkered to suggest that those who are so disabled that they require special toilet facilities might find employment in all areas of the workplace. How many visually impaired people would you employ to decorate cakes, or how many deaf people would you employ in a call centre and still hope to have a business left at the end of the year?
Can we we not keep some sense of proportion and tailor the solution to the problem rather than have central government insist that it knows better than we do. I would have more respect for politicians and government if they started treating us as responsible adults rather than as feckless and wilful children.

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[QUOTE=Acrylic-bobThe installation of a loo for disabled folk might be a nice idea but it is a waste of resources and floor space and adds unnecessarily to the maintainance bill, since it will never be used ( which is perhaps not strictly true, we actually use it as a store room)....

Can we we not keep some sense of proportion and tailor the solution to the problem rather than have central government insist that it knows better than we do. I would have more respect for politicians and government if they started treating us as responsible adults rather than as feckless and wilful children.[/QUOTE]

Point 1 - The fact that the loo is able to serve the disabled certainly does not prevent those with conventional abilities from using it (at least here in the USA).

Unfortunately, cases such as these, due to many, many years of vurtually complete inaction on the issue by the so-called "responsible adults," the central government had to step in. Most businesses and, indeed, many governmental bodies were totally unwilling to provide access to buildings, let alone toilet facilities for the handicapped. The prevailing attitude was "If it does not work for you, too bad, not my problem!" The result of lack of transport, building access and, yes, even accessbile loos, meant that many handicapped folks were excluded from many things, the most important being employment. Their families, and in many cases, the government had to support them, even though they could have become productive citizens.

The same attitude was frequently found in businesses where women had traditionally been excluded - "We don't have a women's loo, so I cannot hire you." that attitude may have been acceptable once upon a time, but it certainly is not today.

Sometimes, it takes a change to the law to cause anything to happen. That was certainly true in terms of opening opportunities to many folks here in the USA, including women, people of color, and the handicapped. Since the laws have changed here in the US (and in the UK, too), opportunities have greatly enlarged for folks with handicaps. Life has certainly not become convenient for these folks, merely less inconvenient, as a non-functioning elevator in an airport recently brought home to me. Not only that, but the overall attitude of society towards the handicapped has become much better. Frankly, if the central government had not stepped in, I believe that this problem would never have been addressed in a meaningful manner. From a purely economic point of view, any business that chose to address this problem unilaterally would be concerned about the possiblity of incurirng costs that their competitors did not have. Making it law put all the businesses on a level playing field and made economically viable to comply (or, conversely, costly not to do so). Businesses as a whole do a poor job of addressing the issues facing society, as they are not designed to handle these issues.

A lot of our firehouses and police departments here in the U.S. found that they needed to upgrade their facilities in order to accomodate women in the workforce. They often made exactly the same arguments used by business for keeping women off the force that you have used in your message - "heavy weights," "agile and fit," "manually dexterous," and "in full possession of all five senses." As things turned out, these were merely excuses for doing nothing. There were women who could qualify as firefighters and police and there were also jobs, albeit not all jobs, that could be handled by folks whose abilities were somewhat limited.

Not wanting to pay for a disabled loo is pretty cummy excuse for continuing job discrimination.

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>>Not wanting to pay for a disabled loo is pretty cummy excuse for continuing job discrimination. <<

Nothing to do with job discrimination mate, it's merely pragmatism. I would be more than happy to employ anyone who could load and unload a four deck oven with the speed that the job requires, but I am certainly not going to employ someone who cannot, that goes as much for the able bodied as it does for those who are disabled. Similarly, show me a blind person who can decorate a cake to the required standard or who is capable of demonstrating the ability to acquire the necessary skills and I would be more than happy to take them on. There might even be some free publicity available if I were able to do so.

But I somehow doubt that my customers would appreciate being told that their order was below standard because I have decided to be socially responsible and employ disabled bakery staff, nor indeed would they appreciate the fact that I was passing on to them the extra costs incurred as a result of my philanthropy.

It is right and proper that the able bodied among us have the responsibility of caring for those who, for whatever reason or to whatever degree, cannot look after themselves. I have absolutley no argument with this. This costs money, a lot of money! I think that the least that social engineering busy-bodies in Whitehall and Brussels could do is keep out of the damn way while we get on with task of making it, instead of hobbling us at every turn with reams of uneccessary regulation. If I hear just one more environmental health officer attempt to lecture me on changes to fridge temperature guidlines implemented and revised and re-revised by ar**holes in Brussels, I swear I will do someone a mischief.

Should someone who is disabled feel the need to contribute towards the effort or exercise some independence, well, I think that would be wonderful and should be encouraged, provided that they can do the job to the same level of competance as anyone else, otherwise that makes them more expensive to employ and I have never seen the point of keeping a dog and barking yourself. In an ideal world the consideration of expense would be of trivial importance, but we do not live in an ideal world, it is hard and often unfair and costs are a very real and pressing consideration for many employers. If employers can no longer afford to employ folk then it's "Hello Recession!" and we are all up the creek without a paddle.

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Just to change the subject slightly, A-B......where and when will be able to see, sample and purchase your cakes?

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Well blow me! l agree with every word that A-b posted.

Discrimination on any grounds is wrong, but suitability to perform, whatever job should be uppermost in deciding whom should be employed.

From my own experience l know l can't do the job l was trained for, but am keeping my fingers crossed should stem cell research result in a cure for what ails me, l'll be at the front of the line for useful and rewarding employment.

At the moment l wouldn't even make a grade one bottle washer, but if anyone knows of a Louella Parsons 'Queen of Hollywood' Gossip Columnists type jobs going, do let met know.

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FLYDE COAST APPARENTLY- GREAT BIG BLOOMERS.:)

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At select hostelries and hotels along the Fylde coast. At some point I may post some tantalising pics.

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Posting us some examples would be a better idea.
Shall we PM you with our addresses?

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neil A-B can post me some samples not examples...lol. and A-B is correct in what he says,my father was disabled bodily and he would do as much as the man next to him and when he came home from work you could see the pain in him,but that would not get him down,what did was being unable to run after his kids on the beach and the likes of that. Being the stubborn owd ****** he was he got on in life as best he could.

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I think this is a good example for you A-B.

I had to phone the bank this morning to sort out an online payment that had got lost. The lady I was talking to at the Natwest in Blackburn was struggling to find out who the recipiant of the payment was. After much waiting and messing around by her I asked to speak to the manager. The manager explained that the lady I had been talking to was visually impared and was struggling to see the computer screen. I really had to bite my lip not ask what on earth was she doing working behind a computer screen that she cannot see.

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I think they should ban clay-pigeon shooting. It's downright cruel blasting all those poor little black and orange pigeons out of the sky. The last one I shot I took home for the wife to cook, she braised it for eight hours and it was still as tough as bakelite.

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Somehow, the discussion got off topic. A-B was expressing concerns that the government was requiring handicapped loos. I pointed out that leaving the resolution of this problem to "responsible adults" had resulted in not resolving the problem (just as leaving other social ills, such a reducing pollution, improving workplace safety, were not resolved by the same "responsible adults," but required governmant action.

I'll ask again - what in the world is preventing A-B's able-bodied employees from using the handicapped loo? Is there some regulation in the UK saying that these folks cannot?

BTW, A-B, there has been quite a lot of discrimination against the handicapped in terms of hiring over the years, even for employment where they can do the complete job.
Laws requiring handicapped accessiblity (including loos) have allowed many folks to lead useful, fulfilling lives and, at the same time, reducing the burden of supporting these folks to the taxpayers.

If your baking business continues to prosper, it could grow to the point where you might have salespeople, receptionists, secretaries or accounting employees. All of these jobs can be done by folks with some form of handicap, in which case you might well need that handicapped loo. Also, I expect that, as a facility producing food products, you are subject to periodic inspections. - and there's no reason why that inspector (or anyone else paying a visit to your facility) might not be in a wheelchair.


Of course, there will also be businessmen in almost any country who complain about the cost, just in the USA many of those "responsible adults" complained about requirements to reduce pollution, make safer products, make the workplace safer, eliminate possible carcinogens, eliminate child labor, equal opportunity for women/blacks/Irish/Jews/Catholics etc.

Would it be a good thing if those "responsible adults" took care of handicapped accessibiltiy on their own? Would it have been a good thing if those same people had prevented pollution, sold only safe products, had never cut corners to pocket a larger profit, had never cooked their books? Of course - but the hard truth is that "if" simply did not come to pass.

Truth be told, there are two problems with relying upon "responsible adults." Firstly, there are a lot of adults who ought to be responsible but are not (including some folks at Enron and Arthur Andersen). Secondly, in a competitive environment, a business owner who wishes to be responsible may well find that the cost of behaving responsibly (for instance, preventing pollution) may be faced with the unattractive choice between not cleaning up pollution and allowing his more-cost-effective-but-environmentally-irresponsible competitor to put him out of business.

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In my line of work our competitors are in China. How are we supposed to compete while we are burdened with such things as climate change levy charges. In China they don't care how much energy they use. Maybe we should nuke them while we still have the chance.

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didn,t know you were in the takeaway buisness neil lol

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people should take a step back there neil and realise what you are saying! the chinese are buying what they can from other countries they are stock pileing and have cheap labour where next?

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i think this is an appauling example of racism

you left out ...

france , iraq and a few other countries worthy of a nuke

shame on you :D

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This reminded me of a situation when I worked in a bank and dealt with accounts of deceased customers. It was often necessary to phone solicitors to chase up legal documents. One Accrington based firm was always difficult to deal with because the secretary was profoundly deaf and had difficulty speaking (as is often the case with someone who cannot hear how a word os suppsed to sound) and yet she was the one who answered the phone! I would have to repeat myself to her several times in a slow loud voice before she heard/understood what I was saying. (thus disturbing those around me who couldn't hear who they were trying to converse with on other topics) and I constantly had to ask her to repeat what she was saying because no matter how I tried it was very difficult to understand her as she didn't form her words normally. There's no reason on earth why the woman shouldn't have had a job and earned a living but why oh why was she working in a situation which required her to be able to communicate with people by telephone?

I have my own limitations and I wouldn't expect to be employed to do something I know I'm not capable of doing. It just doesn't make sense.

I really don't see why A-b needs to have a disabled loo on the off-chance that a disabled inspector may someday call there. Should we all also have disabled loos in our homes just in case we get a disabled visitor someday? Should we all have ramped access? In the later years of her life my mother used a wheelchair and had a stannah stairlift at home but we didn't and at the time we lived in a house with steps up the front. When she came to visit we had to bring her round the back way. It wouldn't have made sense to adapt our house to her needs and she wouldn't have expected us to. Where is it all going to end?

On the subject of hot water though, wouldn't it make more sense to have the water in public loos regulated first? I quite often find that you have the option of scalding yourself (with a polite notice saying "caution hot water" kindly warning you in advance) or using freezing cold water as there are very rarely plugs in the sinks so that you can mix the two for a "warm" option. I like my bath water hot too and if I was forced to have it cooled down against my will I'd find that a totally aggravating intrusion. We've recently had a new shower fitted and I was stunned to find that the "removable" shower head had been rendered unmovable by the hose being fixed to the pole thing. When I queried this with the plumber he explained that new regulations now require that the shower head cannot fall to the ground where it may rest in the water in case the water board turned the water off just as it was doing so and it sucked the dirty soapy water back into the mains. My reaction to that was "humph!" and I disconnected it from the pole myself.

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same thing going to happen to foxes and everything else the government are going to ban?http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/thi...p?story=648516 we will soon be over run with vermin the only meat you will be able to have is that liddle biddy rabbit anyone fancy doing some dogging during there holidays ............(and i dont mean on a car park:rofl38: lol )plenty of rabbits to watch though. never tasted fox? anybody out there tasted it.

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Not only that but the industries are leaving Europe and going there too and i think that should be banned

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sorry to bring this never dying thread back into circulation but i real think its about time!How many fish are thrown down the bog?Who are all these people that rape the seas and put this beautiful ,colourful attraction into a tank for them to watch swimming around in circles,then after a few weeks they are belly up on the bottom of the tank :eek: yes where is the do-gooder brigade when you want them for something constructive!We now have a self confessed murderer on accy web all those who have been watching and waiting(also having a flutter)have had there wish granted:o all i can say is let this act of terroism be banished from this land of ours....long live the fish:engsmil:

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What does goldfish taste like, anyway? 'Owt like a sardine? I suppose it would be nice grilled, with a bit of ketchup on top.

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think you better ask mez that one tea-leaf,think she has had them done allways,and will be having some more soon

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I hope Greg Pope,MP, does not get to hear of this. You know what he's like when it comes to Goldfish.

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Prime Ministers Question Time as there are too many alledged lies. :D

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oy im very careful with my fish !!! just 1 that died & i buried him (roy) in the gardenthe others are swimming round the tank quite happily ..... can be seen through my webcam on msn or skype :p

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lmao mez hope your owd trouts live to a ripe old age...........then you can cook them up and put them on skewers for the next accy web meet:D nobody would notice cause they are always p......d anyway! and they are always hungary,the smell wont put them off ,they will think they are sat next to gary :D put them in the freezer mez..........................pmsl:D

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.........bob-on!

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...........bob-on!

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your right stag...ritual animal sacrifice is to be of more concern to us than an
organised cull of vermin .... respect to you man!

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well said stag.... respect to your words

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This clean air that you have a right to breathe WillowTheWisp.

Would that be the air polluted with vehicle exhaust fumes?

Talk about hypocrisy!

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i cant post this in a new thread because i started this and if you go to the beginning you will understand.what is this country trying to do?be so political correct that its beyond others ? England and the british isles have made more history than we can look back on more than any other nation!what are we (them )trying to cover up?i love this country but in a number of years we are going to fall behind them(other countries) the chinks have the right idea buy all sell cheap, but we think we are the almighty! STOP we have done alot in this world but wheres it leading? we have a goverment that pays out too more forigners than its own born and bred.....why? have you ever seen so many walking sticks in your life:eek: take a walk or drive down blackburn road:eek: all our jobs are gone (the world leaders in cotton, steam...etc..)what have we now.................jack shi...e.and it can only get worse!:( there will always be an england? but where will it be....:engsmil:

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sorry any up and comming young couples that want to bring up kids!get a life where you will be looked after!and give them a life they deserve!:engsmil:

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Pixie Do you drive a car? If so, when I walk down the street my air space is being filled with your exhaust fumes. And if you fly in an areoplane all the fiumes come down to earth and I have to breathe it in. Shall we ban the cars then and all flights. How about it .:mad: :mad:

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The smoking ban isn’t in OPEN public spacespixie but in ENCLOSED public spaces. And that means you cannot object to someone lighting up next to you whilst you both wait for a bus unless it happens to be in an ENCLOSED bus shelter. To have it your way is to pass legislation without due process. Just exactly when were you empowered to pass laws for this country?

In any case, isn’t it the absolute height of hypocrisy to object to cigarette smoke from a bystander whilst waiting at a bus stop on the one hand but say nothing about the bus spewing out filthy and deadly exhaust fumes as it draws up and stops on the other? I hardly need mention the dozens of vehicles that slip past doing exactly the same whilst you wait for the bus to arrive.

Just where is this clean fresh air that you speak of? On the top of mountains perhaps and maybe at the two poles? But down here there is no such thing as fresh clean air. I wonder how many people are aware that the life giving oxygen content of a litre of air is some 3% less today than it was 50 years ago. In the States and Japan they now have oxygen cafes where patrons can have their coffee or whatever and a bottle of oxygen to breathe whilst they drink it.

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any body see in the papers that a M.P wants to ban the fur used on the helmets of the coldstream guards :mad: have they gone over the top or what!

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What applies to the Coldstream Gaurds would apply to the other Guards units as the are required to wear them when required. Some squaddies might be happy without them. They could always make them of another material or is it that its unPC to have them?

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theres only certain regiments that stand guard and they have been wearing bearskin for hundreds of years and we get a lesbo mp that suggests they wear synthetic fur? what are they on about ! just a bunch of bearatic arse holes!sack the f..............in lot of them!