Face covering
 

A judge has ruled that a woman had to remove her veil whilst giving evidence in the witness box, I should think so too, they should also remove them when using post offices and banks too. If they object there are planes leaving for Islamabad every day from most airports, think the saying when in Rome applies on this issue;)

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When I lived in Morocco, a Muslim country, i did not see one veil.

I have no issue with personal liberties, but this is subjugation of women

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No place in a civilised and democratic society and they should be banned period

its not even a faith issue theres no part of the koran that states a woman should wear a face covering its simply something dreamt up by some nutty man many years ago as a tool to belittle and control the opposite sex.Probbably teh same paranoid nut that had sex with a child and didnt like his picture been illustrated and also put a ban on bacon because he had a problem with pigs .

i have mentioned this every time this subject comes up and basically i asked a mulsim taxi driver one night why women wore them and he said it was to show respect to their husbands.I asked him if his wife wore one and he said yes she did.I then asked him why he wasnt wearing one to show respect to his wife and there was no answer just a grin

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That's because he's an ugly git and his wife knows nobody will bother giving him a second glance anyway:D

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They should obay our rules well they are living here.

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Can I walk into a bank wearing a balaclava. I think not. What's the difference?

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When I had my motorcycle ,Jaysay , I had to remove my helmet when entering post offices and banks because it could conceal my identity . The full face veils conceal identity much better than crash helmets .

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Try wearing a crash helmet in court and see how far you get

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And you should start at the beginning ... with the citizenship oath:


Face veils banned for citizenship oaths - Politics - CBC News

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People that agree wi wearing em anywhere,are whats "WRONG" wi our country,:( I posted a few years ago that i was nearly knocked down by one of these people wearing a letterbox, on Tesco car park at Blackburn, Its utterly ridiculous that people are allowed to drive wearing em also, This is nothing at all to do wi religion, its trying to impose their way on us, Well sorry it don't wash wi me,:(

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People should in principle have the right to wear whatever they want and to express their religious beliefs. We live in an age of rights and freedoms enshrined in law. As long as it's a genuine expression of belief and not something imposed by social or familial pressures.

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as i said earlier the burka,veil,letterbox etc has absolutely nothing to do with religous beleif its merely a tool of oppression and control.

personally id do away with right to religous beleif as well and tear down every damn church and mosque that couldnt be converted into a pub.Im sick to the back teeth of how much money,time and effort is wasted pandering to morons that think theres a magic fella in the sky.

god or allah want a church or mosque then let god or allah magically errect one from dust.Supposed to have made woman from a rib so surely buiding his own damn church isnt outside hsi skill set.Besides he created NVQ's he could be a builder in 3 months if his mojo is a bit limp but then again he created the polish so he may loose to a lower quote with better workmanship:)

mind you we dont really have religous belief in the UK there was enough signatures on the last census to declare jedi a recognised faith but it didnt get its status.6 dvd box set is way more credible than 1 poxy ill thought out book from a long time ago:mad:

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Accyman, after all that ranting and raving, according to Accy Web, i see you are a God member

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Saw this letterbox and thought of you and your ramblings acctyman ;)

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/fun/news...ri-geller.html

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only because we don't have another category to put him in .........yet:D

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The niqab has nothing to do with religion...it is all about male domination of women.
Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it tell women that they must cover their faces.
It is a throwback to Persian aristocracy...it is a tribal custom, but many muslim men have been brainwashed to equate it with the muslim religion....and pass this belief on to their women and children. The women do it out of deference to their husbands and fathers - but it is the men who require it to be done...not the religion.

You can see far more muslim women in Blackburn wearing this garment than ever you will see in a Turkish city.

It is intimidatory, anti-social and when it comes to the courts of law and schools it should be banned.

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You need no special building to exercise any religious belief...you can pray anywhere - if you want to.

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You need to reread my post Mrs P last sentence please.

And yes when the wearing of a veil impinges on the functioning of justice or education it can't be right that individual devotion takes priority.

Now reread my first and second sentences please.

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I do NOT need to read your post again...as I understood it the first time.

In fact if you read my post you can clearly see it is undelining some of what you said...however, I do not believe people have a right to wear something which is anti-social and intimidatory.
Much of our perception of people is gained from facial expression(which is why the internet is such a bad way to get across certain points and nuances)....and women who say they choose to wear such a garment are denying us the opportubity to see facial expressions...and determine what they are really thinking or feeling....It also makes it impossible for those who are deaf to determine what is being said...and you do not always know when you will encounter a deaf person in your daily activities.

In this country christians are denied the opportunity to show any outward expression of their faith......I remember a man being sacked from his job for having a palm cross in his van...yet today I go into the GPO and see above the counter, something written in arabic(roughly translated it said 'God is great,...or maybe that should read Allah)....and this is permitted...so the thing about religious beliefs seems to me to be all one way.
We do not need to see a woman clothed from head to foot(in a niqab too) to know she is muslim....the rest of her form of dress already tells us that.

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yes and although i would appreciate a weekly collection to help out with the bills and repairs etc i dont insist women cover their faces although it has been tempting to require the ugly ones do iv resisted temptation thus far

Amen :D

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The vast majority of the 1.4 million Muslim women in Britain do not even wear the face veil, as it is not considered a religious obligation. The tiny minority that do are probably happy to remove the veil when required.

It is unfortunate that sometimes the odd Muslim woman is unreasonable and refuses to remove it. Such attitudes are contributing towards portraying their own faith negatively - Islam is not rigid and is flexible.

Women being unreasonable... nothing new there then ;)

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Aye its a pity quite a few of em don't see it that way.:rolleyes:

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Many find the practice disturbing and regard it as backward, but that's no justification for banning it Ol.

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It aint backward, its the knobs that slaughter in the name of it that are, if they want to carry on like that,then sod off to where its acceptable.:rolleyes: I would ban it in certain instances no question at all.

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A thinly veiled reply if ever I saw one Mr C ;)

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Well, I don't know what how many muslim women there are in the UK...or for that matter what percentage of them wear the niqab...all I can say (from personal observation) is that the numbers who cover their face seem to be increasing.
You cannot walk through any of the local towns without encountering more and more of these women.

If I went to a muslim country - let's say Saudi, for sake of argument.......I would be required to cover up and dress modestly......and I have no qulams about respecting the culture of the country.......but if you wish to come and stay in this country, then you should be prepared to accept the ways of this country.
For far too long we have pussy-footed around the sensitivities of ethnic cultures, at the expense of our own.

I do not agree with women covering their faces......and driving whilst wearing a niqab should be illegal.

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Did you never go to a wedding where the bride wore a veil Margaret???

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Now you are just being pedantic(and more than a little silly)...and it does not serve your argument at all.

Of course I have been to a wedding where the bride wore a veil...but it is a thin diaphanous thing that leaves little to be wondered about...it is nothing at all like the thick black material which makes the niqab.......and some of these muslim veils even cover the eyes with a sort of thick net material.....nothing at all like a bridal veil.

Once a bride is married....she casts off the veil, she doesn't go about the rest of her life wearing it...and if you look at weddings..they are getting fewer, and brides are less disposed to wear a veil.

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A cut and paste Margaret:
The veiling of the bride has origins in the idea that she's vulnerable to enchantment, so she must be hidden from evil spirits. The Romans veiled brides in flame-colored veils to actually scare off those spirits.

Perhaps the most evil of spirits, in an arranged marriage, is the threat that the groom, who is perhaps seeing the bride for the first time, won't like what he sees. The veil saves everyone some embarrassment in the short term.

Also, in many religions, the veil is a sign of humility and respect before God during a religious ceremony.

The Victorians turned that reverence into a status symbol. During Victorian times, when archaic customs were formally incorporated into proper weddings, the weight, length and quality of the veil was a sign of the bride's status. Royal brides had the longest veils and the longest trains.

In modern times, generally we have some assurance that the groom has seen his bride and won't be disappointed, and that the only evil spirits will be the ones behind the bar at the reception.

That's how it's evolved into a diaphanous bit of kit.

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well, I wasn't around in either Roman or Victorian times, but whatever...it still doesn't make it right for a modern world to accept that the anonymising of women is something that we should accept as normal....and even embrace.

It should all begin with the education of muslim young men.....they are supposed to be well versed in the teachings of the Qu'ran.

I am sure that I was once told by a muslim colleague, that women attending the mosque were not permitted to retain their niqab...... if I have got this wrong there will be someone who will pop up and tell me.

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Well Margaret, forcing a woman not to wear a veil, burka or niqab contravenes a woman's right to choose in the self same way that forcing her to wear one does; both cases represent an attempt to control the woman and dictate how she should express herself.
Wrong on both counts in my book.

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What book would that be D? "Billys Weekly Liar":D

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I am firmly of the opinion that many women in this country do not choose to wear the niqab in the way that you and I exercise choice...but that they are coerced into wearing the garment to satisfy the wishes of their menfolk and the local community(You have no idea how powerful a muslim community can be, against someone who wants to do things differently)
These women(I believe) are misled into thinking that the muslim religion requires this of them.......but in muslim countries,if this were the case, then all women would be required to dress in this manner...and clearly this isn't the case.

It is wrong to allow/encourage the social acceptance of such an unsocial and intimidating garment...and it has no place in schools, colleges, courts or in a medical setting.(for obvious reasons)
But it appears that you agree with making women invisible, by citing that it is their choice, without calling into question whether it is or not.

It is a medieval practice aimed at the subjugation of women by men.
It implies that women are sluts and that men cannot control their sexual appetities.


That is my last word on this subject as I think that you and I will have to agree to disagree on this.

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Memories Ol ;)
it was packed with great gags such as: “A football scout from a Midland club is interested in Dan Druff from Ayr.”
They don't write them like that anymore............. except in here.

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Matthew 18:20: "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.";) Or, I guess, you can just do it on your own.

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Just saw some ladies (I assume they were ladies) in the full body burkas picking their kids up from school. I don't think they should be allowed in school dressed like that. How do they know who it is picking up the kids?

Face covering
 

Smell? Perhaps if your sight is limited from birth by a veil the only way to recognise your mother would be enhanced?

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More likely the association with the Beamer/Audi/Merc with blacked out windows their mum uses on the school run Less. ;)

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This is one of my main issues with the subject.

I disagree with the subordination of women also, there's a lot of grey areas in that minefield, but from a straightforward, for the health of society point of view, people should not be allowed to cover their faces.

I have to remove my motorcycle helmet to enter a shop/bank and wouldn't dream of not doing. It's a no-brainer really.

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I've just spent a bit of time today in London and have seen many a Japanese tourist wearing their anti-flu masks, they are tolerated and welcomed in all the major stores to shop till they drop as of course are ladies with burquas and such like.
"Funny Old World eh?"

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Sorry Dave that's an utter load of crap and I think you know it, like others have said you can't go into a bank post office in the dock in court wearing a crash helmet , so why should we bow to people wearing full face veils when they attend these places

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Yes, it is a funny old World, women being stoned to death because they were raped.

Obviously they must have been putting themselves out there, it couldn't be the blokes fault. He wouldn't have done it if she hadn't worked him up to such a frenzy, (I'll use that excuse if ever I'm put before a Judge, he will surely be senile enough to believe me).

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Ya Dave but they always remove it before they say I DO, sadly:D

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I would also disagree, but let's be honest, they really do need to be cared for and steered away from any real form of thinking by their immature Husbands.
:eek:

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John, the recent rumblings and rantings about wearing the veil in the court when giving evidence provides a clear example of the need to balance competing considerations and find a suitable compromise. The same applies in the school context where individual needs must be balanced against other important factors such as the school community, the ethos of the school and the impact on the wider community. This is not a case where one-size-fits-all will produce the right response.
In a free society, the state must allow citizens to do as they please as long as it doesn't harm others, and to resolve any problems that arise through negotiation and informal give and take, rather than legislating on the minutiae of everyday life in my book.

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The mind really does boggle Dave, so your saying that we should allow a woman to stand in the dock with no visual proof that it is actually the person accused of the crime. In your world Dave we shouldn't have rules and regulations and we have to make exceptions for people due to their religious believes, which actually are nothing to do with religion, in the first place. Just wonder what kind of response I'd get if I walked around Islamabad openly eating a bacon butty, I shudder at the thought;)

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You wouldn't get to enjoy your butty

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No John this defendant is in a case of witness intimidation (which sounds pretty serious to me), common sense dictates no she should not be allowed to keep her headdress on.
But everything I've said before stands.

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I have to agree that "legislating on the minituae of everyday life" is something that has just got to go. But .... a free society is not a simple mechanism; it is a process rather than a thing. Britain's society is what it is because of struggle. Not only the horrendously bloody struggles to defend it in the 20th. c., but the centuries of struggle before that, and the decades of struggle since. And there are not only the formal written laws to consider. There are values which also sum up what it is to be British, (or Quebecois, for that matter). And the face covering stunt is an affront to these values. It symbolizes the kind of Islamist state which is anything but free, and should be accepted and tolerated as much as swastikas, jack boots, jew baiting, and lynching blacks.

It's just a few weeks over a century since Emily Wilding Davison made her brave statement in support of votes for women. Aparently, some haven't gotten the message yet.

The last thing Islamists ... as distinct from Muslims ... want is a free state. They want one as much as Walmart wants free enterprise. Face covering is a symbol of the Islamist state.

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a jury needs to see the face of teh person in the dock so it can help tell if the person is lying or not

not all lies can be determined by someones expression but under a burka the sod could be grinning from ear to ear while telling a lie

covering a persons face when giving evidence or answering to a crime or accusation takes away a big part of spotting a liar or a person telling a truth

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As I posted before Eric,
The vast majority of the 1.4 million Muslim women in Britain do not even wear the face veil, as it is not considered a religious obligation. The tiny minority that do are probably happy to remove the veil when required.

One has to question though if their stance is really about religious freedom, or about making a political statement? The veilists that is.
This debate has now become so polarised that people who didn't care what Muslim women wore are now turning against the veil using myths and misinformation to bolster the argument.

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It isn't just "foreign" women that are choosing to wear the burqua Eric, British-born Muslims are also making this choice.

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these muslim women that decide to wear the veil may well have been born here but have been brought up in a backward faith in islamic schools and been conditioned from a very young age .Its pretty much common knowledge that after attending normal everyday school many muslim children also attend islamic schools at night which as far as i can recall are not regulated and can be quite strict to the point of punishment beatings of children who ask awkward questions in some cases.

some may be lovely places and promote peace and free will but they didnt make panaroama the ones knocking ten bells out of kids did though

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My concern with the people who dress in this type of clothing. Burqa and Niqab. How do you know if its a woman or a man. When you see one of these going into a ladies toilet down the town, how do you know it's not a bloke . Your daughter or granddaughter may be in there. The person may have a bomb strapped to their body or may have a gun or some other offensive weapon. If a man or woman was acting suspiciously , they would be pulled by the police and searched. Do you think the police would be allowed to pull one of these. No because it would infringe their human rights to search someone dressed in that attire.

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Little Englander mentality and paranoia from you here Mog. The London tube and bus bombs were detonated in rucsacs but we don’t ban or indeed stop and search people carrying them too much.
The Madrid bombers again used rucsacs, 13 in all and yes granted if you are boarding a RENEFE high speed train your luggage is scanned, not so here more's the pity.Those who invented the new kind of rucsac bomb used in the attacks are said to have been taught in training camps in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, under instruction from members of Morocco's radical Islamist Combat Group.
Incidentally the investigation into how they obtained their estimated 200 kg of explosives. The investigation revealed that they had been bought from a retired miner who still had access to blasting equipment.*
I am far more uneasy when using a cash machine and there are people of an errr’ Eastern European appearance in the vicinity than any person in a burqua or the like. But there you go I have fallen into the stereotype trap.
* Should we round up all retired miners and send them off to Guantanamo?

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Little Englander naivety from you "D" are yeh saying nobody wearing a Burqua or Niqab was ever armed in anyway?:rolleyes:

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Cashy, did he miss the point about knowing if they were male or female entering ladies loo,s whilst your children could be in there or the part about searching or strip searching them and their human rights. Did I have to get all that other boring stuff back D.

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Nope

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Gives you a chance to hone up on your undoubted skill in "selective reading" Mog ;)

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I have no issue with religious freedom, I am very glad we live in a society where you are free to practice your faith, sexual gender, thought and have freedom of speech.

But is the wearing of a Veil of any kind mentioned in the Koran?
Why not allow Forced Marriage? Polygamy?, Female Circumcision?, all of which have been done in the name of religion.

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This is all about Identification, which is essential in a court of law/amongst other places where it is required, also handy when an offence has been commited, These things are sod all to do wi religion, just plain common sense, which seems to be lacking to some.:rolleyes:

Re: Face covering
 

Of course I realize this. I'm not unintellingent, nor am I ill-informed. I'm also aware that Canadian women who convert to Islam choose to wear bags over their heads.

But it's the symbolic aspect of the question that concerns me ... and the hard reality behind the symbolism. It's more than a question of not being able to see someone who may be testifying against you. There is a wider issue, probably a whole bunch of issues. Let's take my country, for example ... and we got many of our ideas on how society should work from you guys. And we run our country, in general, by the same written and unwritten rules as you do.

(As an aside, here is a list of current Canadian first ministers:

List of current Canadian first ministers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice anything?)

But, back to it. We have major problems over here. First Nations folks are, in general, poorer, less well-educated, over represented in our jails, more prone to suicide .... well, you get the picture ... than the rest of us. But we are dealing with the problem. Not as quickly as some of us would like, but the debate is ongoing. Too many kids in Canada go hungry. We have too many seniors at the poverty line. Homophobia. Anti-semitism. Lotsa problems. But they are out in the open. We talk about them. Things are getting done. But as soon as we start to raise questions about the status of muslim women, about honour killings, about face-covering in courts, what happens? Oh no, cry the mullahs and the radicalized muslims, you can't discuss this. You are rascists. You are Islamaphobes. ("You can't discuss this" seems to be a common response from many in the muslim communities ... so much for free speech, eh.)

Bottom line, for me anyway, is that the bag over the head thingy is an offence to everything Canadians believe in. Well, maybe not hockey:D It belongs in Canada as much as a statue of Himmler belongs in Tel Aviv. It's not just the court thingy ... it's everything about face covering that is wrong. And it's not only wrong here and in the land of uk; it's wrong anywhere. It's wrong in Afghanistan: the worst place in the world to be a woman, in spite of the blood and the bucks that we poured into that place in order to change things. It's wrong in Pakistan: the third worst place in the world to be a woman. It's wrong anywhere. It belongs in the dustbin of history along with the swastika and the creepy KKK outfit.

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There was an item on the breakfast news this morning where they are looking at wearing veils in hospitals, I have to say when I was in hospital last year I did see a couple wearing a burka, not on wards but in other departments I went in during my stay, it appears there have been some complaints about it

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Great Post Eric

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I apologise as I cannot remember where I read it, but I do recall something in the media regarding the accused woman who appeared in court covering her face. (Just typing that sentence, I cannot help but think 'lunacy)!
I read that she didn't usually wear the veil, she had facebook pictures up of her with her face exposed, and was not known to wear it usually in day to day life.

I'll see if I can find information on that, but I'm not sure I read it online.

As far as I know there is still a majority vote for the banning of the burkha/niqab/veil but it varies a LOT depending on generations of voters ,and political parties. It has declined very slightly in the last few years. I don't know-consequences of covering one's face do vary according to situation, and things could likely get messy if the government had to differentiate between situations where it is acceptable, and where it is not.

It makes me feel uneasy if I see somebody in a public place with their face covered-be it by a hoodie/balaclava/snood or Burkha. It could be melodramatic to feel that way and it isn't an overwhelming feeling, but still, it's there.

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Think maybe it's this one SM?
Not the woman up for witness intimidation, who incidentally had to remove her veil in court.
This one's a bit closer to home... if you live in Lancs that is ;)
Muslim woman Shaheda Lorgat unmasked in court after stealing from college | Mail Online

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An erudite and considered response Eric, thanks.
I am guessing you can link into BBC Radio, maybe you have the time to listen to todays 5 Live Drive.
The last hour anyway makes interesting listening, particularly Professor Ted Cantle on the Community Cohesion Foundation and the two female muslim doctors talking about their wearing of the veil.
BBC Radio 5 live - 5 live Drive, 19/09/2013

About Community Cohesion | Community Cohesion and Intercultural Relations | Professor Ted Cantle

Re: Face covering
 

was this a patient or a doctor i would not fancy being examined by a doc wearing a Veil:D

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Would be great for wearing on a bad-hair day - and think of the money that could be saved on not having to bother with make-up. Hmm! gets more appealing by the minute.....

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i figured out what their true purpous is a while back

basically they are fart guards for when they have to walk 4 paces behind their master (husband)

see..it makes sense now dosnt it :D

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Could well be, I think I recognise the name.
Lol true-second thoughts I might get one myself-do they do one in bright pink?

If It's supposed to hide your 'beauty', I think the broad in that Daily Fail article needs to have a word with herself....

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Well if I buy the current Mrs P several full length ones, one for each day of the week it'll free up a lot of flipping wardrobe space. All those dresses she's had for ages. Yeah right!

Face covering
 

She would still ask, does my bum look big in this?
You would still know that whatever answer you gave, it would be wrong.

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You use the word choice, are you sure they choose to wear it and are not told or intimidated into wearing it?

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As a person who lives in nighties and dressing gowns (have very many of them - colour co-ordinated:D), I can see how burkas will be comfortable.

Most clothes, especially bras, are tight fitting, and now I rarely wear 'clothing', I appreciate that loose clothing is so much more comfortable, and, in some respects, is liberating:D

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i like my batman , animal out of the muppets and family guy pajama bottoms but i dont walk around accy in them..

ok ok there was the time i drove to rochdale to meet mi then woman before i realised i hadnt put my jeans on and was actually still in my batmans :D

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hospital staff mick but not doctors:)

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The first time I visited Accrington (just visiting some friends) I saw a woman walking down the street in a full-length nighty and slippers. And a short cropped jacket of some sort.
Good first impression :D

I suppose they may be comfortable, but of the few I know of who wear them, I was under the impression that other clothing is often worn underneath-I can't see THAT being comfortable.

(As somebody who only wears bras when absolutely necessary, and spends most of the day in nightwear, I can join the side of folks who find a lot of clothing restrictive and uncomfortable)!
A lot of popular clothing is far too much effort for me. And I have been known to leave the house without putting 'real' clothing on. I try not to make a habit of it, though!

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according to jermery clarkson he saw one fall over exposing sexy undies and fishnet stockings.A specific group of people got extreemly offended at his observations because they dont even like you reporting what you have seen yet alone seeing it lol..

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Hava a listen to the 5Live Drive prog Neil.. the two muslim doctors don't sound intimidated to me... different yes but not intimidated or coerced.
But sure there will be some pressured into wearing them..... but not the vast majority, lets not lose sight of the fact that only a very small percentage of Muslim women even wear em'

Quiz question from the Forts Thursday night which surprised me (The answer not the question ;)) Which county has the largest muslim population?

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Indonesia?

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Correctamundo D ;)

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******, I was thinking of county not country, I'd have said Yorkshire, never mind.
:(

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That's probably the second on the list Less:rolleyes:

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They are not comfortable according to The Times reporter who wore one for a couple of days in and around London to see what reactions she got. She said with the full face covering she could only make out faces a few yards away and navigating stairs was difficult.

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Made me laugh did that, here are a few more of his funny comments, erm I mean inappropriate comments Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson's worst ever gaffes: Indians, Mexicans and burkas | News.com.au

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A few weeks ago when travelling towards Guide, a driving school car was passing going the opposite direction. As it was passing us I noticed that the girl driving was obviously the pupil as she kept hesitating and, on closer inspection, the instructor next to her was, unbelievably, wearing the full face veil. This is becoming a joke, how is anyone supposed to learn and stay safe listening to a mumbled voice under a cloth sheet. Surely, her peripheral vision is affected. It's just downright dangerous.

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It certainly is, but the fact yeh dared to mention this, makes yeh Racist to the knobheads.:rolleyes::(

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This country is made up of quite a lot of different cultures and what make sit more amazing is that for the size of our tiny island we seem to have such a wide range of race or origin of race

bearing that in mind can anyone think of any other culture out of the many that have settled here that have been such a pain in the arse and caused so much resentment towards themselves

and no!!!

getting undercut by a pole on a building quote dosnt count lol

Re: Face covering
 

I know, but where does race come in to it? I've just commented on what I have seen, surely safety comes first. If I was teaching someone to drive with a balaclava wrapped around my head I think I would be pulled for dangerous driving because my vision was obscured. I'm sick of the PC mob jumping in and finding things to pick up on just because they can. I have a right to a point of view just as they have. People shouldn't be made to be ashamed of their opinion. In my opinion.!!:o

Re: Face covering
 

Well to be honest, the women that wear this gear so far as I understand, don't remove their mustache or any other items, (leg hair), so they should be covered, (maybe they will prove me wrong?) until it comes to things like road safety, anyone without a clear vision should not drive a car.

Re: Face covering
 

its got nothing to do with race
its got nothing to do with religion - its not one of the rules muslim's think that if they obey their good/obedience will outweigh their bad
its cultural - but some people love a bandwagon

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...im-protest.gif