Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Not to worry if you had I'd have cancelled it with several negative karma points.
:dflam:

As usual the rest of the above post wasn't worth repeating.:(

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I suppose that's one of the perks of being the grand wizard :rolleyes:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

:lol::rofl38::rofl38:

Nope, I never would use anything that isn't available to all members, even you!

I keep forgetting I'm dealing with someone that knows little about Me, AccyWeb or real life.

I'll let someone else explain it all to you, if they can be bothered, I find your ignorance of facts and life extremely amusing in it's own most https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...nadFdgp2wkZCoA fashion.

:thankya:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Those who are poor often do not pay taxes...apart from those levied on what they spend their money on.

My daughter has been ill for a long time. She has not had a penny of benefits apart from a short time on SSP...which ran out some time last July.
She gets no benefits because her husband earns just slightly over the threshold where she would be able to claim.
A request was put in for her to receive PIP(the new name for DLA) that was in May last year...she has not had a single penny ...and only recently had an ATOS interview in her home because she is too ill to travel...she was told that the processing of this claim could take three months.
So I am fully aware of the difficulties the claimants face.
My comments have been made in the face of being aware of these difficulties from a personal point of view.
She has had to give up on things that many of us take for granted.
You have to cut your coat according to your cloth.

I have said many times that if those who should pay tax paid the amount that is required(thinking of the legal tax evasion that the multi national companies practice while the government - and not just this government but preceding ones too, seem to think is alright)then there would be enough in the pot to pay those in need, what would be something that allows a life, rather than an existence

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

funny isnt it how easily someone who has paid into the system all tehir life can be a scumbag when they claim something back to get by yet not so much fuss from government about all those who have never paid a damn penny into the system whom government allow into this country on a daily basis sign on the dotted line to get some free money.

were not allowed to have a go either as thats been racist but its perfectly ok to bitch and moan about someone whos worked all their life but looses their job because government urinated all the money away on illigal wars and bad management of the economy

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

due to your method used in quoting me i cant respond with quotes but i dont appreciate you making it appear as though i am saying that i dont think drug dealers should be caught or those working full time and claiming benefits when its very clear that i am saying it is easier for government to save money by targeting the vulnerable rather than put some effort into catching the ones defrauding the system

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

No, that wasn't what I was implying at all Accyman.

If you took it that way then I apologise.

What I was trying to say (and seemingly failing miserably), is that the establishment seem to think that catching those who do drugs is hard so they plan to legalise them(or would like to) because the police think chasing them is a pointless exercise...and my point was to ask, if because catching those who defraud the benefits system was so hard that they don't bother trying to do it. Anything that is hard...well, it seems like it is too much effort.
My criticism was levelled at the establishment - not you.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

no worries margaret one of those misundertsnding things that perhaps i wouldnt have taken the way i did if i didnt have a helicoptor flying around my head (literally lol ), a 17 year old wanting something, a birthday meal to sort out for tonight and some idiot on ebay trying to be a clever arse with his words in the hope i wont insist on a full refund and a whole world of other stuff...

and to top it off my youngest bought me a bath bomb in the shape of a cup cake which i mistook for a sweetie as i have never seen a bath bomb before and took a huge bite out of it

at least my breath is fresh even if my mood stinks lol

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

So is it your birthday Accyman?
it is my daughters birthday today...she is mumble mumble. (I know she is not able to access the internet right now -but she might be one day soon) :)
PS...the bath bomb thing made me laugh...a lot(I have a very pictorial imagination).
Hope you get rid of the taste very soon...at least your trumps will smell nice :)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

its on paddys day but kids are a weekend thing so opened teh prezzies today from them

i wouldnt mind but the little sod sat and watched me take a bite and didnt even make a move to stop me lol

takes after me for sure the little ............. :-)


now to get back on topic where is a child getting money from to buy bathbombs ? Talk about frittering child benefit on tat :D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

It is my husbands birthday on Monday too.....he will be 71.
I have no fear of him finding out I have told you this as he is not internet savvy.
Ok, someone might tell him, but do I look bothered ?:D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

They are allowed when it is for their dad....but they have to choose something a bit more subtle(expensive) for their Mum.....remember it is Mothers Day on the 30th of March!

BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Well, the last hour has brought the five most accurate and worthwhile posts this half baked thread is likely to see.

Well done Margaret & accyman.
:)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Thanks Less! :)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

As some of you might know my son has just been treated for cancer. As he was unable to work sometimes during his treatment he asked about any assistance from the DSS. A lady called round and told him he wasn't entitled to anything until he'd been ill for nine months. What a joke, he's always worked, and, at a time when he needed assistance most, he got a kick in the teeth.I've had to beg, borrow and scrounge just to keep the electric and gas going in our house, never mind food. He wouldn't accept any help from Macmillan as he didn't want to take from someone more needy than him! When I see people laughing and taking the mick on benefits it really gets my goat.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Creep ;)

I notice you didn't come up with anything that even resembled "accurate" or "worthwhile" :rolleyes:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I notice it took you two days to attempt another mediocre post, creep though not copyrighted by me, was used to describe you many days before, get your own insults don't just repeat those from others.

The post you quoted was both accurate and worthwhile, it upset you didn't it?
:dummy2:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I wasn't trying to insult you Less,I hope you didn't take it that way ;)

I used the word creep purely because you called me a creep "many days before".
The post I quoted was only "accurate" and "worthwhile" to you an those you was creeping up to.

As for upsetting me,thanks again for a laugh :rofl38:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

There are other errors I'll leave you to spot them over the next few days.:D

So glad you had a laugh, it is very important to be able to laugh at oneself,
you seem to have a greater chance of doing that than most.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

This implies that Less was creeping to Accyman and myself.

Less has no need to creep to anyone...least of all me(I can't speak for Accyman) He has absolutely nothing to gain by creeping.
It's not even as if I am in this supposed 'clique'.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

He's a creep IMHO Margaret :)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

:thefinger: :D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Have you not noticed?

Your opinion, whether honest or otherwise isn't worth much to most of us.
:p

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I bet there's a few folk that have noticed your a grumpy old man ;)
Instead of "the grand wizard" we should call you Spiderman,not that you've any special powers,because you struggle getting out the bathtub :)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but you are making assumptions based on something that is not real, but virtual.

We should never worry about others estimation of us.
Whatever someone thinks of you(collectively, not personally) is none of your business.....and we are not defined by what others may think we are.

And because someone tosses what you consider to be an insult doesn't mean you need to toss it back. Just because someone throws the ball doesn't mean you have to catch it.

This said with the greatest respect.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Oh yes, I am a grumpy old man, no problem admitting it.

As for spiderman, very imaginative, in fact just crossed the boundary into bizarre, well done.

As for watching me struggle to get out the bath...

... that IS creepy!:eek:

By the way, the only people that ever take "the grand wizard" thing seriously are those with a limited imagination, it brings out their real attitude to others.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

From what I hear Len,struggling getting 'out' of the bath isn't your problem.

Attachment 38845


Maybe we should go to a pub and have a drink or 3 (maybe a herbal ciggy too).
You never know we might get on then :rolleyes:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Why are you now picking on Len? Do I no longer suit your needs?

I would be delighted to meet you for a few drinks, unfortunately I'll be struggling to get out of the bath that day.


No doubt though, because you believe what you 'hear', rather than what is true, your mental image is probably similar to this:-


Shame on you.:)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

No less,shame on you.I read your assumptions or comments as you call them in the bowling thread ,plus your derogatory "comments" aimed at myself.
Can 'we as a forum' not discuss anything without you resorting to your bitchy bullying remarks?
It doesn't make you sound intelligent or even witty..it does however make you sound like a bullying child in the playground.Don't you think it's time you grew up?

I've no doubt whatsoever ,you could impress and try to discuss subjects (even if they're below you high standard of thread) without the remarks.
It's not unknown for you to even throw in a bit of humour in some of your 'comments' for good measure ;)

If you insist on behaving like a bully and a child that's just had his crayons pinched, dont be surprised if people treat you like such.

I'll leave you to correct the grammar :rolleyes:

BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Up to present I don't rate you as part of the site, so I don't really care what you think of me or my attitude towards you.
You attempt controversy with your half baked and inaccurate threads, you complain and berate the members when those that answer you with their honest replies aren't in agreement with you.
You agree with stitching a human into a pig skin and yet cry out when pigs are being used to save other humans.
These and many other examples of the way your mind works are why I don't and probably never will rate you as one of life's thinkers.
So stop trying to be anything that you can't be and stick to being a creep you have a natural talent for it.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

What the hell happened to the Benefits part of this thread, and shouldn't a mod or other stopped the ridiculous bickering by now. Just saying is all.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Probably yes

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Been a lot of cutting and pasting for greater or Less'er effect.
Here's one to get it back on track for a while maybe?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

The real benefit scroungers.
That pic does paint a thousand words,Sadly most of them are banned on Accyweb ;)
What it failed to say is those that are missing from the top pic still claimed for being there :D

Until we start stringing these scroungers up by their dangly bits,they'll never stop. There is no shame or remorse from these arses only disappointment when they caught fiddling (and not just expenses).
This (greedy) scum would bill us for the air we breath if they thought they could get way with it (carbon tax Hmmmm).

They're taking us for a ride.....All aboard the gravy train choo choo

Attachment 38859

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

The observations about those we elected to look after GB are not new......you can see them repeated in thread after thread....but it is like worrying or rocking in a rocking chair....it doesn't matter how hard or how long you do it, it gets you nowhere.
Talking about the deficiencies of the political system is the same......it is all hot air and fixes nothing. All the political parties are the same. Not in it to make life better for us, the electorate. Only in it to make their own lives better. To feather their own nests, make lucrative contacts that will sustain them once they are out of office.

Every time they come round looking for our cross in their box...they tell us what they think we want to hear.
We vote for them...they reel us in.

I can see that. I have been able to see it for a long time. My vote is lost to all the parties. It isn't apathy that makes me go to the polling station and spoil my ballot paper, but a general disillusionment that my vote means nothing to any of the parties.

How can we be considered to have a democracy when the politicians disregard the views of the electorate?

Democracy is a MYTH...but is is still fooling many people.

Now, as I said before many posts back...this has been done to death and my participation in this discussion is over.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Are you going to copy an paste this comment at the beginning of every political thread in the future Margaret?
Not that it's your responsibility, but how do you suggest we stop them?
These policies are literally killing people and destroying lives.

I was trying to get this (benefits) thread back on track after mine and less's playground antics,I may of failed,but there's No need to dismiss the thread,although if that's your wish I respect it.

Now,There has been a huge increase in problems with housing benefits due (mainly) to sanctions, but also other changes in benefits.
If you are sanctioned your local benefit office will be told you are no longer on those benefits, they are not told why. If you are on housing benefit you will need to contact your local council and reclaim (which can take weeks).

Councils are cutting off housing benefit payments to tenants who are 'entitled' to receive them as an 'unintended consequence' of sanctions applied to other benefits.
Jobseeker’s allowance and employment support allowance claimants can have sanctions applied to their claims if they miss appointments or fail to do enough to find work. But many are also having their housing benefit cut, because they are unaware that they need to tell councils their financial circumstances have changed. Local authorities are stopping claims as a result.

Food banks etc warn they are dealing with a rising number of housing benefit problems as the number of JSA and ESA sanctions soar - because many recipients don’t realise the reductions could affect their claim.

The number of sanctions against benefit claimants deemed not to be doing enough to find work increased dramatically (860,000+ I think ) in the year to June 2013, the highest for any 12-month period since statistics began to be recorded in their present form.Housing associations have also reported evidence of tenants falling into rent arrears as a consequence of housing benefit being cut off the back of another sanction.
Folk are not being advised that their housing benefit will be affected and that they may need to re-apply for it. Often they only realise there’s a problem when they are in arrears or facing eviction.....sadly,by that time it's too late :(

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I said my participation was over...but just his once...and this is definitely my last post to this thread.....so please don't ask me anything else...because I won't be answering.

NO...I'm not going to cut and paste this to every political thread...what do you take me for?

How in tarnation would I know how to stop them... a revolution looks favourite right now...except no, it will never happen. The young folk have their ears welded to moblie phones.

If you were a mature person you need not have mentioned anything at all about the rancour which crept into this thread - it gave nothing to the discussion and was like much media hype. It took our minds off the real subject.
And the phrase is may have - not may of. (just one of my petty dislikes).

The problems you outline regarding sanctions and loss of benefits are because no-one takes any responsibility for themselves....and Lindsay has already explained quite clearly that the DWP and councils work closely together to ensure that if benefits are stopped then it affects all benefits. These departments talk to one another.

I am sure that if I were on benefits I would ensure that I was fully informed about what things would affect my entitlement and what to do about it should they arise.
I am also very sure that I would attend appointments and do what was required to make sure that sanctions were not applied.

As for food banks, if they are there then they will be used and some are aware that they are being abused too.

I know that people can fall on hard times...and I am not against help being given, but it has to be the right kind of help.
I have experienced hard times in my life....but we really need to foster self reliance and some sort of responsibility...sadly both of these things are sadly lacking in many of these who have sanctions applied against them.
We have for too long fostered a dependency culture....it is unrealistic and unhelpful

Now, that is it from me. I feel I have made my views very clear.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I remain to be convinced that spoiling ones ballot paper is anything other than a waste of time for all concerned.
A letter and pressure on the elected after the election whosoever that may be, has to be better all round.
People made sacrifices to get the vote for women in particular and it's a crying shame people abuse it. I would make voting mandatory with a fine for them that don't get off their arses to use it.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

[QUOTE=DtheP47;1098329]Have to disagree "D" The Abuse is far more by those elected to represent!! I always voted, until i realised its no longer a democracy, So on that basis by yer logic i would now be getting fined regular. I refuse to get off me arse fer summat that no longer exists.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Need a mods edit there Ol my comments attributed to Mrs P.
That said I'd fine you big style

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I read about a real case of 'benefit abuse ' this weekend.
Did anyone know MPs could claim 20p/mile for riding a bike?
And they are doing!
Claims for £1.60, 80 pence, £2.40 etc trips. I'm astonished that someone on their money can be bothered to claim 80p. Even more astonished they're allowed to.Still if they could be bothered to claim for a Mars bar why not?
MPs from all three main parties are doing it. As has been said- they're all as bad as each other.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

My reading of it Gordon, only £150 in total claimed, insignificant in comparison to their total transport claims. Shame on the parasitic reporters who ran with this story, I bet their expense claims were more than £150.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Labour's compulsory jobs guarantee for the long-term unemployed | The Labour Party

This compulsory jobs guarantee (or BS as I call it) will not work and so it will mean a rehash of the current workfare placements.Work can not be created. There is a demand for labour or there isn't. Demand can only be created by people who have the funds to pay for it. To much greed means no money for anyone else to spread around.
The whole culture of the Job Centre has to change. These days, there is no real help (useless), just lip service and mechanisms to make already downtrodden people even more miserable.
The culture of sanctions for example. Some of the reasons they are imposed for are Ridiculous, pathetic, even laughable.
A Selection Of Especially Stupid Sanctions | Birmingham Against The Cuts
They will not win votes with rehashed lip service as spouted by IDS and his vile tribe.

Poverty leads to more poverty, ill health and increasing isolation. Poverty leads to family breakdown, which leads to homelessness, to addiction, depression, self-harm, poor health, mental illness etc until the individual is shattered beyond repair (that's when folk lose "responsibility for themselves" and in some cases take there own life).

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I know it's not a lot, DtheP, although I read £417.58 over 4 years.
It's the pettiness of these people, determined to squeeze even pennies out of the taxpayer. One guy made 166 claims-average £1.24. Has he nothing more important to do?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I don t see a problem with MPs claiming or cycling.
If there allowed to in the rules and its genuine, why not?
People should not bash MP's for the sake of it.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Something that may interest our members from across the pond.
According to new numbers that were released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 20% of American families do not have a single person that is employed.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/famee.pdf

Why does the mainstream media and most of the politicians think that things are better than ever? Hmmm

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Mainstream media article for your edification AccyX

The American Dream is now just that for its middle classes ? a dream | Michael Cohen | Comment is free | The Observer

I was drawn to the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson quoted in there.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

It is from the Guardian......and lengthy. Not as lengthy as a book, (it would make a couple of chapters)but I have a feeling that Accyexplorer will not read it through to the end.
And to Accyexplorer, this is not to reflect badly on you.....but in the past you have posted TLDNR.......or TMLW.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

The pedant in me has to say Margaret, the article is from the Observer 26 April by Michael Cohen.

Thanks for the acronyms, I learned something new today. :)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I pulled up the link and the first name on the header is the Guardian...with the Observer as the second name.....even though the link said Observer.....I took it to be the Guardian.
It has the Guardian essence to it( I did read it).
And you are most welcome.
It is always good to come on here and learn something.
I have to say I had to look up what they meant

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I didn't need to read it M, I can summarise it:

America's middle class is dying, and if they carry on the way they are going government dependence will grow ...and they will be goosed.
I did read the words of Ralph Emerson though :D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

The pedant in me has to say they are abbreviations, not acronyms.

If you want to be really pedantic, they are initialisms, which are a subset of abbreviations.

Does that count as an extra two things learned today? :D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

No No and No Studio25.

Acronyms take the first letter of each word and are pronounced differently from the original expanded form. As per Margaret's post
In my industry we have SPOC's ...Single Points of Contact.

As abbreviation is written differently to the expanded form but are pronounced the same. e.g. Dr and Doctor

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I thought the government was meant to be making it so that folk are better off working than on benefits, no signs of that when you read storys like this!

Gravesend mum of 9 pregnant again - with twin girls (From News Shopper)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I didn't need to read it A, I put the claim in!

http://slwakes.files.wordpress.com/2...pg?w=295&h=300

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

This is the definition of an Acronym...from The OED

acronym: definition of acronym in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Thanks Margaret so an acronym is an abbreviation, I think Studio25 said it wasn't.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I don't propose to argue with The OED!

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

No - you said that TLDNR and TMLW were acronyms, they are not. They are initialisms.

An Acronym is indeed an abbreviation - but it's one that is usually said as a word such as NASA or UNESCO.

An abbreviation which can't be said as a word, such as TLDNR or TMLW is an initialism, which is also an abbreviation.

Did you actually read the definition in the link Margaret provided?

Here's a picture - just in case you're still struggling

http://www.dvdreams.co.uk/webcam/Untitled.jpg

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Corrected, chastised and enlightened thanks Studio25
"What a day"

http://roedersrants.files.wordpress....unce-cap-1.gif

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Still too depressed to work? Benefits Street's White Dee enjoys a £500 bottle of champagne in Magaluf as she headlines at Carnage pool party | Mail Online

She Doesn't look too bad for someone deemed 'medically depressed'...

....looks like she's having a 'whale' of a time ;)

BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Thank you for your diagnosis Doctor.
;)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

and there was me thinking that alcohol and antidepressants were not good together...maybe if you have enough champagne you can hit the pills on the noggin.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I watched the BBC Panorama programme "Life On The Front Line" last night. This followed the council officers in the London Borough of Brent for seven months to find out how the Benefits Cap was affecting families.

I've been on the breadline myself so have some sympathy. However, when I saw shots of one street scene which showed the type of housing which has always been associated with residents who have a recognised trade qualification and not somewhere where unskilled or penniless students with children could afford to live my sympathies diminished somewhat.

I don't think I'm on my own when I say I couldn't pronounce all of the names of the clerks or the claimants. When told they'd have to leave London and be housed elsewhere, the latter insisted they didn't want to leave London and its mixed culture. In one case one claimant was adamant he'd only come to the UK in order to live in "London". The word "London" seems to be a magnet. Whilst researching my family tree I had the dickens of a job finding one ancestor, a coachman, in the mid nineteenth century where the northern baptism of his baby noted: "Father works in London as a servant". In those days there was London city and the borough of London which extended into part of Middlesex.

If you compare the map of the Metropolitan Borough of London in 1900, with the Metropolitan Borough of London today it's expanded enormously into all the surrounding Counties, such as Kent, Sussex, more of Middx, etc., etc.

Putting two and two together; on the one hand we have Brent Council who were sending claimants (if agreeable) to Birmingham and on the other hand we have the government pushing for the High Speed Rail to Birmingham ....... I reckon some other counties such as Warwickshire, etc. will sooner or later be part of the magnet known as "London".

1900 Map of London
The Pocket Atlas & Guide To London, Plate 2

Current map of "London" the white section is within the earlier boundary
http://217.154.230.196/NR/rdonlyres/.../areamap_l.jpg

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Here we have another story of a young guy who 'fell victim to the system' :(

Tragic youngster killed himself because he couldn't get a job - but was too proud to claim benefits - Mirror Online

R.I.P lad

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Bad news sells papers.
It is sad that this young man has died....but if he refused the benefits he was entitled to then it is partly his fault. This may sound harsh, but it is how I see it.
Consider this young man against the young chap who died just last week after raising millions for a teen cancer charity.
If anyone had grounds to wallow, to feel that life was unfair, then it was the boy who died raising money.

The young man in this article had the opportunity of a full life ahead of him, a healthy life. Not one filled with hospital treatments(none of them exactly pleasant). Instead he chose to take his life.

Many people have to apply for lots and lots of jobs before they get anything.(this does not make the news or sell papers)

There are people who come on here who will tell you that they applied for hundreds of jobs. What they didn't do was sit and wallow. Some of them went out and did voluntary work to give them something to put on their CV and to give them confidence in their abilities.

There are local and EU elections tomorrow......the Mirror is a paper with a bias towards the Labour (Liebour) party so how fortunate it is for a story like this to land in their lap on the eve polling.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

coroner Simon Nelson said: “Martin was clearly very highly thought of and these are fine attributes indeed.

“It may well be a moment of madness, but I feel sure that he intended the consequences of his actions.

“Young men in particular tend to act or react impulsively to life’s events. The way of trying to come to terms with life’s events is talking it through – even if you do not realise it at the time.”

I'm sure his friends and family wished they'd be there to talk to him at such a critical hour or so of his young life.

R.I.P young man

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

While the current [deleted] in office have twisted the rusty knife deeper his death shows a deeper rot in society where someone's worth is being benchmarked by their ability to be a wealth producer. Of course this is the BS the politicians and media have brainwashed the nation with.
If you're not a wealth producer or consumer your just a 'useless eater'. People's worth should measured on them being a human being not an entry in a profit and loss account :(

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

This is how he saw himself.
Had he bothered for one moment to talk to someone in his circle of family and friends then maybe...just maybe he would have reconsidered his actions.
I am not saying that it is not demoralising to be unemployed.....and I am not saying that he didn't try......but he got carried away with his 'hippo time'...he wallowed in the mire of his considered misfortune.

There were many things he could have done, but he didn't have the maturity to see them for himself or for that matter to seek help from someone who could have helped him see his value.

A family out there are suffering because they are asking themselves some very awkward questions right now. Questions that no-one can answer, because the only person who could answer them is no longer here.
Suicide is selfish. Much more selfish than taking benefits!
He could have taken benefits and didn't

BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Please Margaret, I do understand you can't fathom why people commit suicide, however do not write a person off as selfish, they are desperate and thinking there is no alternative (for them), there really isn't enough help for mental illness of it's varying types as a nurse I would expect far more tolerance from you, surely they are a victim perhaps of their own mind, but a victim all the same?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Less, having experienced a suicide in my own family I cannot alter my opinion.
The person who commits suicide thinks of no-one but themselves. They do not think of their parents, their siblings or their partner.
Those who are left to pick up the pieces frequently and for many years ask themselves the same questions...with no answers being forthcoming.
To bat on when everything seems against you is the courageous thing to do..not chuck the towel in.

Some people who commit suicide may be mentally ill...and while I accept that Mental health is a poor relation in the NHS stakes, there are helplines available for those who really feel truly alone(Samaritans is one of these organisations).
Being a nurse is not a panacea for all ills...and we (even nurses)have our opinions. Mine is coloured by personal and painful experience.

I have just the tiniest inkling of what this man's family are going through right now.

BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Of course they don't to commit suicide means they are ill, you can't think surely that they are thinking am I being selfish?
They are looking desperately for an end to what they consider an horrific suffering.
Selfish is gaining something, neither the person or family gain anything from suicide, the ones left behind have only feelings of guilt no doubt wrongly because they didn't see it coming.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Of course they are not thinking of anyone else.
And yes, family members will continue to ask themselves why they had not spotted any signs. When someone is mentally ill, there are usually perceptible changes in them.
If someone continues to act 'normally' (whatever that might mean) then there is no suggestion that they are ill.
As a family member you ask yourself why this person could not come to you for help, for advice, for support. It is a very painful experience......and sometimes it is a spur of the moment impulse that takes them away....rather than cogent thought.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

A suicide doesn't have to leave the survivors in doubt - he/she can leave a letter explaining their choice.

Many of us who believe that we will end our lives in this way never do, and refrain from doing so because of the hurt it would cause to our friends and family - but we live with the thought every day. Others could never contemplate such an act even in the direst circumstances.

I don't believe suicide is a consequence of mental illness. For me it would be an expression that the continuation of life is unacceptable and I do not fear death.

Surely voluntary euthanasia is a form of suicide but not a consequence of mental illness?

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Those who do it on impulse may never leave anything....but doubts.
If someone is intent on taking their life then they will do it one way or another...these are the ones that the family know are troubled and still they may not be able to help.

The ones who take tablets are often hoping that they will be found and saved....these are the ones that are demonstrating a 'cry for help'.


I just wonder if the people who commit suicide were told that they had a life limiting disease, would they want help to live...or help to die.

Only when you stare death in the face do you realise how precious life is....and how much there is to live for.

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For me it would be the help to have an easy death & a way to avoid the pain of suicide.

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Isn't that what everyone wants in the end...a good death?

And a good death is different things to different people.

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I don't think suicide is selfish (like I've heard it being called), if someone isn't happy in life, and nothing seems to make them happy then suicide often becomes a cry for help from a broken soul that can't handle anymore pain etc (also I don't think it should be a criminal offence for those that try but fail to take their life).

High rates of suicide in any society should be viewed as a failure of said society and their inability to identify and treat mental illness.Of course nothing would completely eradicate suicide but I feel there should be more help available (especially in colleges,schools).

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Suicide hasn't been against the law for about 50 years.

Suicide Act 1961 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

My bad :p
I thought it was still illegal :o

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Why should society be to blame?
Somehow we want someone else to responsible for every aspect of our lives.
Happiness is a very subjective thing.
What makes one person happy could very easily make another miserable.

When people are having problems in their life there should be one person in their circle - either family or friends, that they can confide in. If they choose not to do that, then how are they to be helped...especially if they are not showing any outward signs of being upset, unhappy or in low mood.

We all get fed up with our lot from time to time...and often there is just cause for this...but the majority of us have developed coping strategies from our experiences.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Blaming society is n easy answer to me.

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I just think we (as a society) could/should take a little more responsibility for making folks lives bearable.We should focus on supporting firmer ways to prevent suicide, like helping people contact professional help, supporting research and treatment of depression.

Saying that though,(I also believe) for a lot of depressed folk telling them things like you should talk to someone can be harmful because being told you need to talk to someone can/will induce emotions like guilt, responsibility etc, often at a time when that person (most likely) will be unable to deal with any added psychological burdens. Sometimes when folk are depressed or suicidal, the last thing they want to do is talk to someone, especially if they are the ones that have to do the reaching out.

My brain hurts :confused::confused:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

How do firmer ways prevent suicide?

We have become a society that expects someone else to be responsible for the things that WE ourselves should be in control of.
Too uch navel gazing is bad for you.
Perhaps if people actually talked to one another(face to face) instead of relying on mobile phones and devices to communicate.

There has been a whole generation who went to war and fought for this country to be a free democracy.....people who saw and dealt with atrocities as young and impressionable people. Those people came home and rebuilt the country.......if anyone had the right to be traumatised, to be affected and demoralised by the things that went on during that time, then it was these young men and women.

They had built strategies for dealing with the bad/unhappy things in their lives.

Maybe the people of today have expectations which are too high.....we can chase happiness all we want, but sometimes it isn't something external( a new car, a better house, a nice holiday)sometimes happiness is accepting the life we have and making the best of it.
Like Stephen Sutton.

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I'm bracing myself for the next batch of high flyer male youngsters whose suicides will be reported just before or after they've received their uni graduation results and neither their family or friends will know the reason why, especially as he was so cheerful the last time they saw him.

Experts don't know why either, although they acknowledge stress which leads to depression is one factor. The Princes Trust recently did a survey of over 2,000 sixteen to twenty-five year old youngsters and found 9% of long term unemployed felt they had nothing to live for and one fifth of those who were unemployed had contemplated committing suicide.

We all know boys brains are wired differently from the fair sex; a big clue is the bright chatterbox who went to bed last night gets up the next morning and can't string two grunts together. We also know they're not fully developed until they're about 25 years old yet we consider they're fully grown adults capable of riding all the storms life throws at them a full 7 years earlier. Authoratative figures make it plain they should fend for themselves, yet they probably haven't a clue about budgeting or what comprises a balanced diet which is necessary for a healthy body and mind; and in my opinion a meal comprising of a cheap can of baked beans or a beef burger with a tiny piece of lettuce and a slice of tomato isn't a healthy meal, no matter what the advert states.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I think surveys(like research) weight their questions to get the answers they want to find.
I also think that many people are not completely honest when completing surveys.

In this modern world we try our best to protect our children. We do not give them the opportunities to take risks.
If you don't take risks now and then, you are completely incapable of being able to assess risks.

Depression and low mood are two totally different things. Yet people who are feeling fed up,(for whom things have not gone as well as they hoped, or who didn't get their own way) will declare themselves 'depressed'.

Growing up, I cannot remember anyone talking about depression. Growing up, I went without things that other people had.
Did that make me feel bad about myself? Of course it didn't.
There is too much introspection and not enough proaction.
I was taught that if I wanted something I had to go out and earn it...save for it.
Today many youngsters want life all wrapped up and tied with a bow. If they do not get it, they feel that life has short changed them.......when in actual fact it is us, their parents, who have short changed them by not giving them the strategies to compete in the real world.

There is much more self esteem to be achieved by setting out to get your goal by your own talents.

The boy who took his own life because he could not get a job(which made him feel of no value) could have done so many things.
He could have taken the benefits to which he was entitled.
He could have worked as a volunteer, this would have given him the self esteem the he felt he lacked. It would have given him healthy social contact, it would have made him feel that he was not wasting his time, but helping others who were less fortunate.
It would have given him some different work skills to add to his CV...and it may have eventually led to him getting a job.
He was interested in gardening...he could have gone around his local area and done the gardens of the elderly for a nominal charge.
He did not do any of these things. He ended a healthy life.

Contrast that with Stephen Sutton. diagnosed with Cancer at the age of 15.....many hospital visits, treatments, being unable, because of his health problems, to do many of the things he enjoyed.
What did he do? He got proactive and set about raising money for the Teen Cancer Trust. He set out to raise £10,000......and raised over three million before he died.

If anyone had the right to feel that life had thrown them a curved ball, it was Stephen Sutton.

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We mature adults have all had our own life experiences which give us our own viewpoints. I accept that Martin, the 20 year old, didn’t respond to his situation as well as the poorly 15 year old, but I’m not going to compare them because, as you pointed out, brave Stephen Sutton was a young teenage boy who through his years of hospital visits had doctors and nursing staff who were experienced mentors in dealing with youngsters going through their high and low periods. I would also query whether he was left on his own for any length of time.


As for Martin, we know from the newspaper that he wasn’t on benefits, we also know he shared a flat which means he must have been finding himself some sort of short term casual work, but I imagine there’d not be much outside gardening with the rain we’ve had. We also know his mum had given him bus fares to go to the job centre. From the job centre, Martin went back to an empty flat with no job, no money and possibly no food in the flat. I know from my son and his peers how they were treated as 18 year old college leavers applying for benefits – all of them were chastened from the experience.



When I retired I did a bit of volunteering and came across some very despondent teenagers which prompted me to do some research.: ... The frontal cortex of our brains is that part of the brain where we sift information and then make informed choices. The frontal cortex is not developed in teenagers, they don’t have one at all until it eventually starts making connections. We know people develop at different ages, thus the only certainty we have is that by the time we’re 25 years old we don’t have a fully developed mechanism for evaluating and making properly thought out decisions. Until that time arrives emotions are the deciders to the choices teenagers make

I've now surfed and ound youtube videos which gives a better explanation - Here's a couple - one made by a male and the other made by a female:-

The Teenage Brain Explained - YouTube
Insight Into the Teenage Brain: Adriana Galván at TEDxYouth@Caltech - YouTube

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Well, I can't access the YouTube stuff.
I can speak from personal experience though....having had a family member commit suicide.
I can also speak from my experience of life......and I know that the female brain works in a different way to the male brain. From the age of 11 I was responsible for care of three brothers(all younger than me) it made me develop skills that perhaps I would not have developed had this not been the case.

I was taught to look for dangers in life, to prepare strategies.....almost to expect the unexpected.
Children these days do not get those life skills.
Despondency comes from feeling like you have no control.....but in most cases there is always something you can do......and it is these things which have to be focused on.

See the glass half full.....not half empty.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I heard angel feathers rustling more than once when I was in the Fire Brigade, especially when buildings started collapsing.

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I was thinking about the prefrontal cortex stuff...and it made me wonder how the young lads in the trenches of WW1 went on.
It also made me wonder about court cases regarding the competence of adolescents to take legal and medical decisions for themselves.
It also made me wonder if the prefrontal cortex development is enhanced by having experiences which relate to life and consequences.
Certainly, growing up we (my brothers and I )were taught about consequences of actions.

I have now been able to view the Youtube stuff(changed my security settings temporarily) and agree with the second clip which says 'There is still a lot we don't know about the workings of the brain'.

Sometimes experts tell us things and then they find out something else which tosses their first ideas into the rubbish bin.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Retlaw as long as you only heard them...and didn't see them...that is all you have to worry about.

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How very true Margaret

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Interesting, hmmm

Plans to amend benefit changes clear first Commons test - BBC News

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I've had some mixed feelings about having to move if you can't afford to pay the rent for the empty bedroom, as I know of one family who bought a new build three bedroom Barratt home in the 1980s and then discovered that the small bedroom (what used to be termed a boxroom) wasn't quite long enough for a standard size single bed. Additionally, and mainly, my other reason was because the government said it had given councils extra money for special cases, which didn't seem to be acted upon.

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It's a (sick) joke L,folk up and down the country feel like they are being pushed into moving house or paying extra because councils are ignoring government guidance and failing to prioritise those who need it most :(.

Imo this is too little and too late, however, it is good to see Labour and even the LibDem MPs fighting against one of Ian DuncanSmith's vilest policies to date.....



.....You'd almost think there was to be an election soon :rolleyes:

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25 years old, wow, I must be the odd one out. In all honesty I was about 50 yrs old before I considered myself as grown up, and I have met blokes older than that who are still little boys, and I reckon some of them will never grow up. Girls are different, they grow up very young.(Most of them anyway.)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I think things (and life experiences) have changed a lot over the last fifty years or so. People seemed to have more responsibilities and less mollycoddling than today's teenagers, when you left school you started work - you suddenly became a grown up. Times and technology are drastically different now and the hardships faced by previous generations are irrelevant to the current generation. That and the so called 'Nanny State' making people fearful of and needing to be wrapped in cotton wool seem to be breeding a new babyhood of teenagers scared of the realities of the 'big, wide world'.

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Many young uns these days have no concept at all of realities/hardships etc,n it aint there fault, its ours.

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Yes, maybe you are right Cashy.
But is it not the case that ALL parents wish for their children a better life than they themselves had?
Having said that, it isn't right to just give children what they ask for. They need to be taught that they have to earn what they get. That is certainly the premise that I used when bringing up my daughter.
Things that come easy are seen to have little value.....but I have no doubt that this maxim has fallen by the wayside as some parents do not give their time......so compensate by giving material things.( please note......I did say SOME PARENTS)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Spot on as per usual.;) mine also had to earn stuff, but can recall many of their friends didn't, which could cause arguments.;)