Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Yes, we had those similar arguments...to which I replied 'my house, my rules...if you want something different go and live with them'.
These days children are treated as equals(too much 'lip' and answering back)...when they cannot be equal until they have some experience of life.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I think secondary schools are also very different now too. Years ago, kids were being prepared for the big wide world of work and reality,,some of the teachers were pretty fierce too. These days, a lot of the teachers don't seem much older than the year elevens, I've seen the teachers 'high fiving' the kids on the corridors and treating them like mates. Where's the respect ? Kids need some sort of discipline and guidelines rather than just indulgence, no wonder they're leaving school behaving like they did when they started.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I fully agree. Every year, teachers are facing an incoming cohort of kids with reduced morals, respect and motivation. Teachers are supposed to be part of the solution, not the only solution. Your stories of younger teachers high-fiving kids just seems (to me) to be them trying to connect in a different way to what was acceptable a quarter century ago.

When you get a legal system with teeth and parents who care, that's when you can start complaining about teachers' methods that you don't agree with.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

things are different now because teachers cant punish kids and your right part of it is that they try to be pupils mates so the pupils behave but also part of it is so that pupils like them enough so that they dont get mum or dad battering down the doors trying to smash their faces in.

parents used to back teachers up or if a child got in trouble it used to be a long walk home trying to think of how you can break the news to yuor parents that you had got in trouble.These days its how dare you shout at or punish my child ill kick your teeth in.

things have got so soft schools from what i was told by my youngests school are no longer allowed to give lines out .It may not be that they are banned it maybe in the process of trying to be best mates with pupils the practice has been abandoned.

for every 100 people that want tougher rules in schools there will be 1 person who objects and sadly it will always be that 1 person who gets listened to

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Bedroom Tax 'tormented cancer victim to death' when she was forced to move home despite illness - Mirror Online

Another example of someone who's a victim of IDS's vile policy :(

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

also the council have a descretion over this and could very easily have prevented this from happening infact the council are fully to blame and although the policy is vile the council did not need to impliment it to this woman

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

The 'true cost' of the governments/councils callous disregard for humanity.....it's sick (even to me).

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

"Disabled not worth Minimum wage"

Looks like one of tories has let slip their true views about the disabled although scameron says it's not the Tory view (cough cough BS).

Esther McVey said "These words will haunt him"

BBC News - Welfare minister apologises for disability pay comments

This (sick) excuse of a human should resign or be sacked imo.He reflects the increasingly Nazi approach by UKIP and the Tories on welfare and compassion in society. The very same society that arch Tory Thatcher said did not exist.:rolleyes:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

if it wasnt the official tory view they would never have had the purge on the ill and disabled they did when they contracted ATOS to kick as many people off benefit as they could.

they made been ill and disabled a social stigma just as they do the poor and poverty stricken and to be honest i dont know who is worse the party that tries to make it this way or the mugs that accept the vileness they spew

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Freud is part of the Elite class that think the untnrmenchen should be enslaved with any excuse to pay them as little as possible and if not they become useless eaters.At least the Tories were honest about their inhumane views, the modern fascists work by deception by pretending to care about human beings.I assume Freud was just thinking aloud but to be honest he ought to have just kept his trap shut.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Yet another victim of IDS's BS,just when you thought our government couldn't get any lower :(

Forced to pay the cruel Bedroom Tax because of the death of her hero son in Afghanistan - Ros Wynne Jones - Mirror Online

Yet IDS claims for everything from wet wipes to toilet roll.........well, I suppose he has got a lot of blood on his hands and then on top of that,the dirty rat has the cheek to laugh during debates,what a vile creature :(

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Aye but after the election if Labour win, Clegg has said he will NOT support em to remove this tax.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

He's another example of the type of folk that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near government ;)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I understand the idea of the bedroom tax, why should the benefits system pay for people to live in bigger houses than they need? The problem is with it's implementation. Being fined because there are no suitable houses around isn't fair nor are the other newspaper story cases.

We have people up north losing housing benefits for houses costing a fraction of what housing benefit is paying for down south. Maybe that should be addressed first.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Of all the things this Government has done I think the 'bedroom tax' is the most unfair.

By all means if there is smaller, more suitable accommodation available charge the tax on people who refuse to move into it. Otherwise, it's not justifiable.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Indeed, I've mentioned this before, when I moved into this house which is two bedroomed, it was because the house I had been living in was bought by compulsory purchase and demolished, at the time which was before the dreaded tax I asked for a one bedroomed accommodation and was told they are reserved for the disabled take a two bedroomed with our help or else become homeless.
Then the tax came in and I was hit as if it was my fault there is extra air that they think I can't use.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

You have extra air as well as a spare bedroom?
Now there's a thought- we could have a tax on that as well.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Well gosh, throughout history hasn't that already happened?
I was born into this world, I didn't choose which part I should be born into, but for all of us there is someone that says you must pay to inhabit your small space, even if you try to live independently.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Can your extra room not be defined as a hobby room L?
What is the correct definition of a bedroom,a room with a bed in it?
What would happen if your landlord changed it on paper to a 1bedroom house with a hobby room,would you still be charged a 'bedroom' tax?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I stated facts you offer me stupid questions, people need solutions not theoretical fantasy.
:rolleyes:

P.S. my user name is Less, please use it.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Your another victim of this policy Less.
Solutions"? There is only one solution and that's don't vote for that shower of BSers in Westminster.....




.....Sorry,I think I'll just ignore you in future :rolleyes:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I know there are victim's fortunately I'm no longer one of them, I did something about it.


As for ignoring me, you promised to do that a couple of months ago, is this another false promise?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

That's excellent news, Less. Good on you!

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

"Malcolm Burge, 66, killed himself at Cheddar Gorge, Somerset, after being pursued for the sum by his local authority, an inquest into his death has heard."

Man killed himself after benefit changes left him owing £800, inquest told - Home News - UK - The Independent


Oh dear, yet another victim of governments vile policies.
That council (or local authority as it likes to call itself) has blood on its hands :(

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Has it any-more blood on it's hands than you or I?

Please, explain, not the guilt of such establishments but your innocence from the crimes you consider are being committed.
:confused:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Yes, I believe it's more blood on its hands than you or I,we don't send debt collection agencies to vulnerable folks homes or terrorise them with threatening letters etc.
My innocence comes from opting out (where possible) from the messed up,inefficient system.
Not voting and avoiding tax :eek: (in my younger days) alongside attending the odd protest are a couple of ways I've done this.
A government that haemorrhages vital money into wars and creates a system that leaves poor folk high and dry, with nothing and no place to turn is not one I want any part of (if I can help it).

I know,If I'm genuinely concerned about these attacks on the poor by the "1%", I need to look further into political activism etc but I'm getting on a bit and it doesn't usually change much.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

See it just shows accyx, yeh can be sensible when yeh want.:D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

So all I need to do to get out of my council tax debts is write to them saying I have mental issues and that if they chase the debt I may top myself?

Or if I don't write to them, and they have no idea of my mental state, they will get villified for not taking that into account if I do commit suicide?

Sounds to me like an organisation trying to treat everyone fairly and collect what is due does not have any way to come out of this with a course of action that pleases everyone.


You might think that abstinence from "the system" absolves you from any blame, but you share equal blame for the way things are with everyone else who lives in this democracy. That's how democracy works - if you care at all about the way the country is run, you vote. If you care enough about the way the country is run, you canvass, volunteer, put yourself forward for election etc. If you don't care, or think they are all as bad as each other, then you don't vote, but that reduces your eligibility to complain about the way things are being run. If you care enough to complain on a forum, you care enough to put X on a piece of paper.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I care....I also complain.
I have never failed to trundle along to the polling station, I cannot vote for a party that does not have some of my core values at the heart of their policies.
I have voted in the past for people who say one thing, but then do totally the opposite.
I do not slavishly follow the principles or dogma of just one party....I think about who I feel may best represent me.....this is a considered way of voting....And for a couple of times I have felt that none of the parties/representatives of the parties deserve my vote....I feel seriously disillusioned about how this country is being run.
Political parties do not listen to the electorate, they dismiss the concerns of those who put them in power....They treat us like we are brainless idiots.
I will continue to trundle along to the polling station, but I reserve the right to write on my ballot paper"none of the above'.
When politicians show that they are genuine, trustworthy, and have more than their own interests at the heart of what they do, then, and only then will I feel comfortable with placing my x in their box.
I am not expecting this phenomena to happen in my lifetime.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

And..By the way...Democracy is a myth....like Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny
It is a concept dreamed up to keep us quiet. To let us believe that what we say will be listened to and acted on.....but never is.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

One who thinks we live in a democracy, is simply delusional imho.:rolleyes: It just seems like we do, cos we dont behead or set people alight.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Obviously each case has to be judged on its own merits,the example I gave outlines a major failure (imo) in our current "system".
The council overpaid the money and because of health issues the poor guy didn't respond and buried his head in the sand....which is obviously the wrong thing to do but fact is folk who suffer from depression etc sadly tend to choice this path over any others.

As for debt collection agencies they are right up there on the scumbag chart alongside the politicians.they are glorified thugs with no compassion in my eyes.

I guess what I'm saying is,lessons should be learned from these kind of deaths.


I wonder what the figures are for our local folk that have had benefit related deaths,deaths were denial of benefits etc was undeniably a factor in their decision to take their own life.
Would a freedom of information request get these answers from HBC etc? Hmmm.

I bet DWP,HBC etc deny any connection at all between benefit reforms/cuts and the deaths of claimants.
A total contrast to what I believe,that these deaths 'ARE' as a direct result of IDC’s vile policies and that he should be called to account for his BS.
As for living in a "democracy" hmmm....you keep telling yourself that.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Voting changes nothing....if it did they would stop us from doing it.
It is interesting to note that in the last couple of decades the goverment has not been the choice of the majority of people in this country.....and the only way you could get a true representation of a majority would be to have proportional representation.
Each new party which comes on the scene dilutes the chances of a government selected by a majority of the electorate.

Making it illegal not to vote would not be a step forward as there is always the possibility of spoiling your ballot paper.
I think that the current political system is bankrupt....and the electorate are increasingly disillusioned with not just politicians, but politics in general.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

THANK YOU, I saw his answer this morning, I was tempted to say similar to yourself, but then I thought no for two reasons:-

1/ He would say I was picking on him, (something I never do, I only pick on his lack of thought).

AND

2/ let someone else point out that not paying your own taxes, puts the bill straight onto those that are vulnerable causing them to die because of your own greed.

Oh sod it let's have a three.

3/ not voting as some 60% often don't leaves the road clear for uncaring politicians to be put in place and come up with laws that leech on the vulnerable.

My conclusion? Accyexplorer is far more guilty than a great deal of ordinary folk or councils and yet has the brass nerve to think he is one of the righteous!

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

After reading that, I don't know if your as intelligent as I thought you were or your just after a increase in your care plan.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Wouldn't disagree, however does that make Accyexplorer right because he dodged taxes forcing the deficit required onto the vulnerable?

Is Accyexplorer right to ignore his responsibility at the ballot thus allowing couldn't care less folk to be governed by couldn't care less politicians?

We all need to get off our arses and vote, the difference it would make is almost negligible, as Margaret always says, 'if voting made a difference they wouldn't let us do it'.

But if and it's a big if, 60% voted, those in power just might think twice before introducing draconian measures, it could just put their jobs on the line.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Less, I think most politicians think they are fireproof....that nothing the electorate can do will affect them.
They invariably say one thing to get elected ( like our own elected representative) and then once elected, they please themselves.
They are not in politics to make our mundane lives better, but to make their own lives, their bank balance and their future better.
This is the reason why moderate people either fail to connect(and don't vote) become disillusioned with everything which politics stands for.
I struggled last time but in the end voted for someone who(I thought) knew the area, the people, the problems....and as a result of this local knowledge, would do the best for us in this area.
Wrong on all counts....I had not learned the lessons of the past.

I won't be making that mistake next time.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Under no circumstances do I disagree with you Margaret, however I do disagree with someone that claims a Council has blood on it's hands even though they didn't make the law they are forced to uphold when he then openly admits his actions are probably more likely to have caused the very thing he claims to abhor.

Vote, or don't vote everyone's choice, pay your rightful taxes or commit embezzlement, again your choice, but don't pretend if you are like him that you aren't part of the problem that leads to the death's of the vulnerable.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Woooha, this is supposed to be a family site, we can't have you writing such lies

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Myths Neil....not lies.
I actually believe in Santa more than I do democracy.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I'll let you off just this once :)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Thank you Neil.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Reports of this latest 'benefits death' have led me to learn of -

UK Welfare Reform Deaths ~ Updated List ~ October 21st 2014 | Black Triangle Campaign

About Black Triangle | Black Triangle Campaign

extract -
'The Nazis forced people with mental and other disabilities to wear black triangles in the extermination camps during the Holocaust. The generic classification they used was “Arbeitsscheu” – literally “Workshy”. This term is also the one most favoured in our right-wing tabloid press to described incapacity and disability benefit claimants today.'

We can no longer regard our society as civilised - we just use more subtle methods of execution than some others.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Sadly those cases are not isolated and are no doubt "the tip of the iceberg" 1000s of folk are falling foul to this governments evil agenda.

Attachment 46963

The sick and mentally ill, in a lot of cases, are extremely unwell and absolutely unfit for work yet they are being forced to work via Atos.
While those on other benefits are being unfairly sanctioned from jobcentres that are under pressure to meet targets.
We need to see a complete overhaul of the whole system if we are to ensure nobody else falls through the cracks and takes their own life :(

More on Malcolm Burge's story:-
The appalling death of a man caught up in benefits nightmare - Home News - UK - The Independent

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Give free council homes in exchange for benefits

https://www.politicshome.com/economy...s-urges-tories

Is this just a distract and confuse media story with politics instead of health issues? Hmmm

What about those folk that have to work to have a roof over their head?

IF ,and that's a big if,this happens it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me, it sounds more like a way of getting poorer folk to vote Conpervative (deliberate spelling error)...then,as usual, after the election it will be quietly dropped never to be spoke of again.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I wouldn't worry too much about my avoidence in my early years,it's the evasion you need to worry about.

Red Ed the tax avoider: Property merry-go-rounds and how the Milibands changed a will, cutting their inheritance tax liability* | Daily Mail Online

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xZuhGsrgVug

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

evasion = an act or instance of escaping, avoiding, or shirking something:
evasion of one's duty.

Evasion | Define Evasion at Dictionary.com

You are just as guilty as any other thief, even if it is for a lesser amount, so perhaps you shouldn't use such terms as 'blood on their hands' until you find a way of cleaning it off your own?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Thats the problem,some dont see it as theft when its only small scale, Sorry but Theft is Theft. not rocket science.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I won't try and defend my (legal) ways...as hypocritical as i may be,it's my way of sticking the middle finger up at those in power.

Lesson of the Week - Tax Avoidance vs. Tax Evasion

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Sod all wrong wi sticking yer middle finger up at those in power, Yeh just leave yerself wide open by saying yeh done it yerself, not the brightest move in my view.:D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

However, that middle finger is still dripping with blood, your avoidance is part of the reason uncaring Governments pick on the vulnerable, making them responsible to pay the shortfall caused by your selfishness.

So you shouldn't sit up there in your Ivory Tower pontificating about a Council that has to obey the laws that come out of Westminster, laws that might never have come about had you paid your dues and also gone to the polling booth to vote in a caring politician.

O.K. I admit to a glaring error in the above paragraph:-

'Caring' & 'Politician' should never be seen next to each other in anything but a humorous phrase.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Fair dinkum, i'll deal with a prison sentence and wealth confiscation proportional to the amount evaded if they do.
Pointless whinging really,nothing will change until there is a dramatic change in how the economy is organised and that (historically) requires revolution (or war)...will it happen here in the uk? Hmmm as i say.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Perhaps if you restricted your ill-informed posts to the above, you might just come across as one of the sites more interesting members?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Hmmmm :D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

"The unemployed should be forced to take a job after no more than two years on the dole to end stop them spending a 'lifetime on benefits', Labour will say today."

We should stop the dole after two years to force jobless to take work, says Labour's Rachel Reeves | Daily Mail Online

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

See what your little bit of tax evasion has resulted in?

However can you make amends?

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Yes,your right,it's all my fault.

I'm sure if the working classes that avoided tax actually paid their dues those at the top would be less incline to bend everyone over a barrel.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Now you can see why you have to vote Tory- Labour, the new nasty party!;)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Not in this lifetime ;)

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

No, not all, just partly. Just as it's partly my fault for not caring that you avoided paying tax in the past.

I think you'll find that the working classes are the least likely to be avoiding tax. The "ones at the top" have everyone over a barrel because most people don't have the funds to weasel out of a tax bill, either using an accountant to avoid it legally or a lawyer if they are caught doing it illegally.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Thanks for the constructive criticism S,Don't forget it's also all our faults for "not caring" about the "ones the top".

Perhaps,I shouldn't lecture and condemn others for it when I've done it myself....it's called rank hypocrisy :p

Like i said previously, i'm willing to take a prison sentence and/or wealth confiscation proportional to the amount avoided/evaded if/when the "ones at the top" do.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Our peg has just given me a voting letter from the other day,on the back it says i may be liable for a £80 fine (cheeky barstools) if we don't register :eek:

I wonder how many £80 fines HBC has issued,i'll hazard a guess at none.

I also wonder does HBC sell this info they're collecting? Hmmm

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I find myself not being able to agree with this (with anyone else I would say "you are dead wrong" ... but you're special; so, I'll be circumspect:D). Look, for example, at the Canadian General Election of 1993. Our systems and political procedures are so similar that this is a valid example. Or, closer to home, Attlee's election victory. From the Magna Carta, whose 800th. anniversary will be celebrated on June 15, the history of England (we can forget about the Jocks, Taffies, and Micks;)) is the history of the rise of the power of the masses, unwashed and common as muck as they may be. Sure, it hasn't been a seamless progression, maybe because only 5% of the population give a [deleted], but it's in the history books for all to read. (Also in back issues of Beano, and the debates between Dennis and Lord Snooty). It's not time to give up on it.

One suggestion, which would never be accepted by current parliamentarians, is to implement Article 6 of the "People's Charter" of 1838.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Eric, it is heartwarming that you think I am special.
The good thing about friends(and even though we have never met I do consider you to be a friend) is that they can hold differing opinions without it coming to blows.

I used to believe in democracy....but alas, I am greatly disillusioned.
Politicians say absolutely anything to get your vots...and once you have put your cross in their box they can do as they please without any let or hindrance.
They believe themselves to be a cut above the common people...you know...those people who pay their salaries and expenses.....they treat us all as if we are blind imbeciles.
They tell us we should do one thing while they do another...they feel that they are subject to different rules.
They believe themselves to be our masters, when in fact what they really should be is the servant of their constituents...not the servant of the party to which they have aligned themselves.
You could not put a sheet of bronco between the different political parties...and I am heartily sick of punch and judy politics......the slinging of mud, the personal insults......because they are all a shower of shi-ite.

I do care. I would like to make a difference. I spent my working life in a profession where making a difference was my main aim, but I cannot see the ballot box and particularly my vote making one iota of difference to how this country is run and managed.
Those who make the rules are unelected and reside not in this country, but in Brussels and that cannot be right.
As for article six of the People Charter 1838.....I had no knowledge of what it was(remember I am a lass that left school at 15 to go and earn a crust....very little book learning).
I turned to Google to educate me......and I have only had a very cursory look at it......I will read, mark and learn it later....when I have cleaned the paint spots off my new floorboards.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I agree with most of what you say Margaret but I do think it is wrong not to vote - as little impact you may think that has. However, if many people think and do exactly as you, then the only ones to benefit is the party who have the strongest political machine behind them or the hereditary support
I am nowhere near being in anything like full agreement with what is going on now, however, I do accept that a great deal of what we all suffer now is the result of having Blair/Brown in power and squandering the wealth of the country and the lives of our troops - and remember that Red Ed and Loads o' Balls were advisers to them.
And now we have the spectre of the SNP doing a deal with Labour - why, oh why couldn't the BBC/ITV/Sky show continuous re-runs of Braveheart before the Scottish referendum.
I don't know what the answer is or who I shall vote for - I do know who I will not support - one lie to the electorate from our representative who is supposed to be true to his constituents is one lie too many for me.
So do I protest and vote for UKIP which could well be a vote against the Tories and a vote for Labour.
Something of a conundrum.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I was going to put in a link, or even write it out, but there's google ... it'll even tell you what a googleplex is.;)

It's still too early to give up on democracy of some sort ... some sort better than it is now ... The one per cent can't win ... after all, they are kind of outnumbered (by about 99 to 1:D).

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sS12Ui5iY6c


My "back issues of Beano" clearly state "there is no peaceful way to sort this mess out"....

....Viva la revolucion ;).....

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

They (those at the top) have already took over most of the world's money supply and with that they control most of the world's media and Govts.
Education for the masses has been dumbed down to Beano level and we're fed a mind numbing diet of distraction and confusion.

The only thing keeping us from undisguised totalitarianism is the need to keep us compliant with their fake democracy and fabricated enemies.
All they need is another world war (and it's coming) in order to bring in the next wave of large changes like the previous two enabled.
The destabilisation of the Middle East and Caucasus is a prelude to this.....or to but it another way 'we are goosed regardless'....


....that's my cheery thought out the way for another day.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Well i aint bothered, am too old to be conscripted.:D

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Oh I don't know, Jonesy! :s_aim1:

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I always...always trundle down to the polling station.......and I always cast a vote...or maybe no, I use my ballot paper, but sometimes I will tick none of the boxes and sometimes I will write something on my paper.
I cast my vote last time in favour of a local chap.
I figured that he knew the area, knew the people well...knew of their concerns and their worries and was best placed to do something for his town.
Fool me once shame on you! I can tell you he won't be fooling me again.
And this is what is so disappointing......those who have the power and ability to do good do not use it for that. Instead they use it to further their own ends.
I vote with my head and my conscience. I am one of those 'floating voters'.......I have no allegiance to any party.......I do not vote the way my parents voted.....but I truly do believe that voting changes nothing......and that democracy is a myth to shut the electorate up......and sometimes to blame them when the fisons hits the fan.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Everyone has the right to make their voice heard - equally everyone who doesn't want to be heard has the right to obscurity. I've said before that (in my opinion) the fact that they can vote and choose not to means that they are just as responsible for the outcome of an election as the people who do vote.

Incidentally, according to Radio 4's More or Less program, non-voters are probably not affecting election outcomes by not voting. A poll (by the Today program in 2001) of which parties a non-voter would have put their mark against if they had voted, yielded results of similar proportions to those achieved by the people who did vote. Article starts at 15:30, non-voter poll starts at 18:00.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

Perhaps n idea would be to put a box on the ballot paper saying " I choose not to vote for any of these Charlatans" P.S. i put summat else but it was asterisked out.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

If you vote then your voice doesn't necessarily get heard (though it may get heard it is often disregarded), politicians do what their party tells them to do. This is not always in line with what is best for those who elected the MP.

MP's seem to treat their electorate with ill disguised contempt. Our own MP falls into this category as he believes that we are not educated enough to make relevant decisions regarding political issues that concern us.

Re: BENEFITS hmmmm
 

I have gone to the polling station and written 'none of the above' more than once.
I go to the polling station to show that I am not too idle to haul my carcass down there, but that I cannot in all conscience vote for any of the choices given to me.
Does this mean that I am not entitled to hold an opinion...or to express an opinion?
Even if voting became compulsory I would not vote for someone who I thought could not run a chip shop.(and that means most of the politicians in office right now).
I haven't a clue which way I will vote at the next election.......I need to wait and see what the parties come up with...but so far it is looking rather bleak.

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Has far as i'm concerned Margaret P, what yeh do is 100% in line with my views on this subject. Yer certainly entitled to n opinion, those that say not are mindless cretins in my book,

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I see the Tories have brought back the benefits issue to deflect from the tax evasion 1 resignation already do not underestimate the ed;)

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Ay up! So you got your visa renewed then? :D

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Yes, they all follow the party line, or get thrown out, ignored, abused by their party, whichever party they align themselves to should be a guide to folk then come second to why they are voted in, they are voted in to serve the people NOT the party.

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Been on the campaign trail anybody but the snp separatists sky and the rest of the hedge fund news say the snp will win 50 seats no chance 19 at most tactical voting to keep them out is happening;)

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If the cap fits!

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Are those two on benefits then?

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Yes, the worst kind, M.P.'s wages!

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Of course they are :D,
The story seems like no brainer until you consider drug rehabilitation services are inadequate to deal with folk trying to enter voluntarily. Make it compulsory and folk will be waiting years.
Take away a addicts benefits and that means they'll be stealing more than usual.

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no they aren't on benefits.....they do not have to justify their expenses, they do not have to go before a medical board to be assessed, they do not have to attend job centre.meetings.
They both have what is loosely termed employment...they are employed by us.......and their job is to manage the country.
They are paid very well for this employment, but the terms and conditions mean that their contracts come up for renewal periodically.
Come May 7th......it might be different...but they still won't be on benefits because during their political lives they will have made lots of(lucrative) contacts which will act as a buffer against whatever happens.
No politician leaves office, poor. Ever!

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I guess it comes down to how you define benefits ,on top of their wages, they claim for anything from stationary to loo roll to hotels (expenses) and these things that I class as 'benefits'.....

.....Mark 4.25.

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But they are not reliant on benefits and really have no understanding of those who are on benefits.
Your definition of benefits in this instance(and context) is skewed.
Politicians can well afford those items you cite, but they choose to boost their earned income(?) with expenses....They are allowed to do this.

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They are 'allowed' to do a lot of things,it doesn't make them anymore justified (in my eyes).They should be means tested :(

Do you think wealthy pensioners should be able to claim winter heating allowance?

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Nowhere did I say it was justified.
There are many unequal situations in life.......the tax avoidance issue which has been bandied about recently is one of them... Red Ed says if elected he will remedy this situation, but parties (all of them) have known about the tax deals being done....all of them chose to ignore the loopholes so they are to blame.
They chose not to do anything(all of them) because they all use these tax avoidance schemes themselves.
How many of the working population have the opportunity to fudge their tax bills? Not many, as the taxman gets his bit first.

Benefits should never be a way of life.......they should be a helping hand in difficult times, but not something that people can be on forever and a day.

You seem to be under the impression that the benefits that pensioners receive are free....they are not.
Wealthy pensioners will still be paying tax(and some of those wealthy pensioners are asset rich but cash poor...their main wealth being tied up in property).......so it is their entitlement.
I am not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but I still have to pay tax on my pension....so do you think that I should not be able to use my bus pass?
My bus pass is not free......I pay into the system and have done since 1962 when I got my first pay packet.
I have (over the years)contributed to the wealth of this country....there are many who claim benefits who have contributed nothing, but see it as their right to get money from those who have contributed.

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I think that when the bankers stop paying themselves massive bonuses,the "one per cent" (and I) pay their fair share of tax, maybe it wouldn't be necessary to give up your payments/entitlements or bring using your bus pass into the equation ;)

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Bankers are not in the business to be philanthropic, they are in the business of making a profit.......I have already said my piece on people who use perfectly legal tax avoidance schemes....and that stands...they do it because they can!
They do it because successive governments have turned a blind eye to the big guys and the deals done by HMRC.
Any government over the past five decades could have closed the loopholes....but none of them have done so.

I agree that if all huge corporations paid their just dues to society then we could have a better health service, better infrastructure(roads, public amenities) and benefits that allowed people who need them to live a life, instead of just having an existence.
Maybe when the politicians standing for office in the next election come around doorstepping for votes we could bring up these questions and see what their response is.
(I will have a spare pair of knickers handy in case I wet myself with the hilarity of their answers)

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Another one from the daily fail:-
Benefits single mother Kay Bird admits to spending £3,000 on round-the-world trip | Daily Mail Online

Most of us have to work darn hard just to be able to afford to put food on the table and pay the bills (and maybe a day out in southport),yet here we have a women squandering her benefits on holidays.

What I don't get, is there's thousands of folk who NEED support, but aren't getting it.Yet this lady gets more than £9K a year, tax-free, and doesn't even need it :eek:

Personally,I can't see how £3k would get you a around the world trip unless you planned on hitchhiking and being a stowaway on the odd ship.

Who is in the wrong though the women for claiming money she (openly) admits she doesn't need or the system for paying her the money? :confused:
Imo,she doesn't deserve a penny but its the system thats at fault.

I'm trying not be too hard on this lady as she has showed some sort of decency by being open and honest about her claim.She dosent need the money but the system says that she's entitled to it......

.....so why not take it and use it for what she likes?

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Quite simply cos Child Benefit is supposed to be for the child, not silly cows. She claims its cos shes entitled to benefits, bullshine, its cos mummy @ step daddy pay her bills, no other reason, if she had to exist like most then this could never happen.:rolleyes:

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Nothing to do with him suffering from depression for 11 years then

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Neil, of course it has...but that would not be anywhere near as sensationalist as being able to blame government policy.
no-one seems to want to take any responsibility for their action, their choices in life...they want to rely on others and then at least they have someone they can blame.

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Should Labour form the next government can we expect that all the "wrong decisions" imposed by the Tories be changed?
Will they repeal the "bedroom tax", or shelve the Universal Credit, or restore the cuts to the NHS, Defence, Welfare and the other measures taken to overcome the debts that Blair/Brown (not forgetting the parts played by Balls/Milliband et al), saddled the country with?
Perhaps our "honourable" member, or one of his acolytes, will grace us with a response to these questions.

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governments rarely change what the spend years slagging off the opposition for and in the rare occassion they do they give the money back with one hand and take it from somewhere else with the other

one thing that will never change is that they themselves will be fine unless caught in the act or up until the expenses scandal would have been the end of it but they decided that they didnt have to face prosecution for their criminal activity

what they usually do is keep the oppositions policies in place and when people complain they say we didnt do it they did

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You mean the classic, "I'm resigning my post to spend more time with my family", ploy? The only way we get money back is when they really need to bury a scandal.

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i believe them and the rent boy chained to a radiator in their hotel room clutching an empty bag of cocaine paid for by us is just coincidence

im not saying MPs are known to be crooked but i heard that despite been dead the MP found dead with an orange stuffed in his gob managed to claim for that orange 3 days later on his expenses