The Labour Gravy Train
 

Neil Kinnock's son selected as Labour candidate for Aberavon | Politics | theguardian.com

After mummy and Daddy lived off the EU gravy train, now young Stephen has used the name and contacts to get a safe seat.

This shows the hypocrisy of Labour for accusing the conservatives of Eton bias, at least its not family bias!

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

They all pee in the same pot, regardless of political colours

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

I went to a book store today, and asked for a book on how to make tasteless gravy.

"It's out of stock." Said the assistant

"That's the one." I replied

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and the red ones that used to be the party for the people now miss the pot completely and pee directly on us especially that one that ( and i use the following phrase very loosley) represents us

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

It's no wonder there's a low turn out on polling day, young people in general know nothing about politics because all they've ever known is pretty much the same party all their lives, whether it be Labour or Tory (what's the difference?). It's the old boys network and nothing much benefits the working class anyway. There seems to be an apathy with people who think whoever you vote for nothing changes anyway. The gravy train keeps on rolling and if you happen to be crossing the tracks then your gonna get squashed.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Its certainly not just young uns that know nowt,westendlass, Theres plenty of owd gets like me, that voted fer donkeys years, have come to that conclusion, N it aint guesswork, its been demonstrated time n time again by all the big parties. From my perspective they can all get stuffed.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Tony Blair's eldest son Euan in the frame for safe Labour seat in Bootle - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

War mongers son wants to get on the Labour gravy train.

Labour are disgusting.

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You are Davo,if yeh think only Labour are.:rolleyes:

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in the UK if you are a con-man or a theif you are a criminal

unless you are a member of parliament of course because then you are a pretty good fellow

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Remember when Kinnock refused to enter the House of Lords for The Queen's Speech ? Where is he now ?

Baron Kinnock, of Bedwellty in the County of Gwent

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Why does that make them disgusting?
If you led a political party would you let luck decide who you had in government or would you try and put your key players in seats you know they will win?

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

I think it is the nepotism that he finds disgusting Neil.
And there is nothing wrong in putting the 'best man for the job' into these safe seats, but there is something wrong with putting your son forward for a safe seat.
How has this young man proved himself to be worthy of the votes of the people of this constituency?
This young man has led a life of privilege and I suspect knows very little of the realities of life in Bootle.
What it says about the people of Bootle, is that they will vote for anyone or anything that wears a Labour jacket. I find that distasteful.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Well, it's been a smooth and lucrative ride for his mum and dad, he must have developed a taste for the gravy.

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and if jones gets in after what he did to the people of hyndburn it will say the same about us

a liar that not only stabbed the people of his own town in the back over the referendum but had the audacity to say we were too stupid to understand the complexity of the EU to have a say on if we stay in it or leave it


i find graham jones distastefull after that but admitidly he was barely palletable as a councilor

i want a MP that will fight for all our rights not just the ones his party leader thinks we should have

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Yes, of course you are right about that.
Though at least he knows what the local issues are(that he ignores them, is just to keep the leadership warm).
In fact, I think it is more despicable for an MP who knows the area to do what he did.
He said one thing, but did another.......and tried to justify this by denigating the local electorate.
I think that when a local MP makes such sweeping generalisations about his constituents, it shows how little he values them - and their votes.

I think he has alienated a lot of people in the town, but there will still be some who vote for him purely because he is under the Labour flag. I will not be one of them.
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

UK opposition leader falls for Zionist propaganda | Redress Information & Analysis

This is typical of Ed Milliband and his desperation to become prime minister to jump on any bandwagon.
"I'm pro Israeli but im also pro -Palestine".
He will tell people whatever they want to hear so long as he gets power.
The man is an embarrassment.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

He is not a key player.
His parents are key funder's and have the right connections.
A similar event happened around the corner in Liverpool Wavertree.
They elected a young girl who's parents are big donors and members of the influential Labour's friends of Israel.

The Labour party laugh at their core vote and their core vote allow them to.
They have themselves to blame.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

His parents were Polish jews, and he met with long lost relatives on the trip to Israel.

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Would someone please tell me the exact words of Graham Jones regarding an EU referendum ?

This topic has cropped up very often when some on Accy Web want to have a go at Graham Jones but I have never been able to find out what he actually said .

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

It was something that had 95% in it.

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it was worse than that and to be honest i cant be arsed trawling through the site looking to quote him again but some of it is still here if it hasnt been requested to be removed that is

his remarks were also taken from his facebook or twitter so probbably removed now but plenty saw them if they arnt there

all you need to know is he said he would back our right to have a vote on the referendum and within a matter of weeks after been elected by many who want a referendum he voted to deny our right to have a referendum.It then took a further many weeks for him to dish out some half arsed eplination as to why when people on the site he visited so much running up to election time wanted answers from him but suddenly he wasnt around so much he was busy snuggling up to milliband

no offence but look in the forum yourself all you have to do is click his username on here and view all his posts ..Thats if you can stomach the bull and drivel you have to wade through to get to it.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

It's the same the whole world over ... remember the song;)? Thing about democracies:rolleyes: is that they aren't as blatant about troughing as, let's say, the shoe lady from the Philippines and her old man. But there is little chance that MPs will vote money out of their pockets by limiting their salaries and cutting back on their expenses. Best thing I can say about Canada's parliament is that most of the crooks are tories, go figure, eh.:rolleyes: And our Labour party is still definitely to the left of centre. And in Kingston we do have a decent MP ... Ted Hsu, a Liberal, born and raised in Kingston. But I still wonder if he will change when the Liberals form the government.

Maybe things might change if there were a proportional voting system, and annual parliaments. But, as Yoda would say, "my breath I am holding not."

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

its just a pitty it takes 5 years to sling a MP out

a MP can betray his people teh day after election and you have to wait 5 years to get the sod out

i doubt he would have pulled the same trick a few weeks BEFORE an election

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Democracy is a myth. I think that is why many people are disillusioned with voting.
Whoever you vote for, you get the same old crap.
If you feel that your vote means nothing, will change nothing,then just what is the point?
Politicians only want to tell us what they think is good for us.....they treat us like five year olds....I really resent that.
They treat us like we only have two brain cells....one of which is on inhibitory mode!

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Good to see you've not strayed from your political compass M.
I don't know why but, whenever I read your posts I find myself reciting them in the voice of a early baroness trumpington :D

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Anyone want to see David camo sectioned?

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petition..._recruit#share

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And so you should young man...she's my role model!:D:D:D

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And here's me a thinkin' it was Ena Sharples:hidewall:

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Eric, Baroness Trumpington is her own woman...yes she's conservative and in that way we differ, but she has had a very full and interesting life...a code breaker at Bletchley Park during WW2...she calls a spade a spade and she is infamous for giving one of her colleagues in the House of Lords a two finger salute.....not something you would expect from a ninety year old.(not something I would do either) She is true to herself.
So that is what I am going to aim for......except I am conservative with a small c(and that isn't anything rude).
Ena Sharples was a formidable woman too...I just haven't got the chesticles for it:D:D

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

She's certainly got her head screwed on M, having worked at Bletchley Park during WWII (very appreciative).
Her gesture was something I'd personally like to see more of in the Houses of Parliament.It originated from old battles between England and France, where English archers had their two fingers chopped off if caught by the French, so the English used to display this sign to the French as a derogatory gesture :D

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Yes, it is said that this two finger salute originated from the long bowmen at the battle of Agincourt.....to show the frenchies that they still had the fingers to draw back the bowstring.

Another thing about Jean Baker(Baroness Trumpington) she left school at the age of fifteen having passed no exams. I did the same. She was a beautiful and feisty young woman.

So, yes....she is someone to emulate.

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Ok I will be your female dog :rolleyes:

There are a few 95% posts but I think this is the one you wanted

Here are the others i found, to read them click the little blue arrow and it will take you to the post.

I think I have posted this before, you can see the tweets deleted my MP's on this site - this link is to our MP's deleted tweets http://www.politwoops.co.uk/p/ukmps/GrahamJones_MP

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

That should read Jean Barker.....not Baker.

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not mine i was just refusing to play fetch i was busy...

ill probbably make more effort nearer to election day to compliment the many posts that will most likely appear telling us what a great chap he is and how he plans to sort things out:D

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Do you think they will be stupid enough to appear and start spouting the usual rubbish this time?

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I certainly dont, reckon the nerds on Twitter will get most of it.:D

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Yes, I do. They obviously think we haven't got the brains of a small retarded gnat.......and the memory of a demented goldfish.

They might try to wrap it up a bit different, but it will be the same old, same old tripe.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

aLL A LOAD OF SLIMEBALLS, Kinnock and wife creepy ,sneaky like all politicians,do not vote,withold your rights, this will show the real picture!

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if no body voted and the election was trashed do you think they would ..

A: see the errors of their ways and sort themselves out

or

B: see it as on opportunity to declare emergencey powers and run the country unanswerable to anyone

ok ok they are already unanswerable to anyone they guy who they are supposedly are answerable to is himself a criminal and tehif so its no wonder the MPs got away with the expences fiddles

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Not voting shows you can't be bothered or are to lazy to go and vote. Voting for a party that say they will sort out the problem is making your voice heard. Ok I know they may lie and not do what they said but at least you tried.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

in fairness the majority of our MPs should be in prison or at least out on TAG yet we vote and keep these crooks in power because there is no other system in place or alternative to fall back upon apart from anarchey that is

the only resource we have is to keep in place a bunch of criminals who take it upon themselves to tell us how to behave while breaking every law and moral code there is to be broken from backstabbing to paying rent boys to stuff oranges up tehir arse or wherever that tory MP had one stuffed when he was found dead

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

By voting you give your consent to be governed by whichever political party wins.

When you disagree with the policies of all the parties, it is illogical to give any of them your consent.

Withdrawing your consent by not voting, is a valid way of dissenting.

If enough people refuse to consent to be governed, the political party which is declared the 'winner' can no longer claim to been granted 'consent to be governed'.

Consent of the governed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

No it doesn't Neil. I go to the polling station at every election(I am not lazy or apathetic - I am realistic)...but will only vote for someone I believe will do the job they claim they can do.
If I get there and think that none of them are up to the job then this is what I write on my ballot paper.....'none of the above'

How is it making your voice heard if the parties do not listen to what the electorate tell them?
If the politicial parties disrespect the voters so much that they do not listen to the wishes of the country, then there is no democracy.
Democracy means being able to change something with your vote.....if that is not possible then how do you change things ?

You can vote until kingdom come, but it will not change anything if those we vote for disregard our wishes.

And before anyone tells me that people fought to give me the vote...I already know this, but maybe back then politicians were a little more honest, keener to do a good job, and less keen to fleece the taxpayer...who, by the way, are their employers.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

What a load of rubbish.

95% of people according to those surveyed by Populus don't put Europe as an important issue. That there was a case therefore for a referendum on a the issues the public rated more important. Sensible points.

I said I didn't bother about it. That I was easy on a referendum. You'll find Labour MPs for and Labour MPs against in their public comments. At the moment a vote came were in a euro zone crises and everyone agreed against a referendum. Common sense again given the circumstances.

I also said that we would vote to stay in. Latest opinion polls are confirming that with the dont knows moving to 'in'. Sky's recent poll was to stay in.

My own view - and your going to hate this - but every business bar one in Hyndburn I have spoken to is saying we must stay in.

As for calling Labour voters numpty's - bottom of the barrel stuff and undermines any argument put forward.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Which post are you calling 'rubbish'?
You must meet with a vast number of different people to those that I come into contact with.
Many of my cohorts, friends and associates think that Europe and a referendum on our continuance in this vast corrupt organisation, is very important.
The people that I meet with do not think that there is any political will in any party to tackle the problems that being in the EU creates.
But you do not want to hear what the electorate think.....you deem us to be too dim to be able to evaluate the pros and cons of membership.
And that is arrogant!

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

I fail to see how this is "common sense". What better time to consider the UK's commitment to a united Europe than at a point where it is revealing its weaknesses and its disunity? Also, you fail to address the larger issue of whether politicians are "serving" or "self-serving". And a straw poll of local businesses is not a firm basis for designing policy which has profound implications for Great Britain as an independent, self-determining entity.

By the way, your English is execrable.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

I'd like to know who actually voted in those opinion polls. As I'm English, I'm sure I would have placed the state of the Banks/Economy at the the top of any poll during this last decade. On the other hand, if I'd been born on the European mainland for instance and rented a space in a house with 20 others of my compatriots who settled here because there are jobs here, of course I wouldn't put Europe at the top of a list because I'd like the freedom to find work and live where I wanted, especially when I had the choice of choosing a country with benefits which suited me.

As for your business contacts I suspect they're mostly in the food industry where I acknowledge that we do have substantial business interests in the EU. Until a decade ago I was in the electronic manufacturing business and can tell you that our modest exports were to South America and the Arab lands.

I was one of those who voted to join the Common Market and am most certainly against the self serving undemocratic Institution which has since developed. It set regulations then allowed membership to countries which did not meet the rules viz Greece, etc. It laid down an agriculture policy which the UK slavishly followed, resulting in us losing middle sized farms but gaining millionaire landowners. At the same time we had Scottish farmers selling up and moving to France which handed them a stash of money to set up new SMALL farms. The EU laymen set regulations which have emptied the seas of life and decimated the fishing industry. How ridiculous to have one trawler fishing for one type of fish but inadvertantly catching a species of fish it wasn't licensed to catch - those illegal fish being manna from heaven to the millions of gulls waiting for their free meal; whilst a trawler less than a mile away was "legally" catching the same fish

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There is much scaremongering about loss of business if we were to leave the EU.
I cannot believe that this would happen. Markets are run on having viable products...if we have those viable products which we are selling in the EU......how will leaving the EU make them less viable?

If so many people wanted to remain in the EU, then the government would be only too happy to let us have a say in what we want.
It is because they fear that we will give the 'wrong answer' that we are not being given the opportunity to vote on it.
They want to let more EU citizens in so that the vote will go the way they want it to go.

Many of the bureaucrats in Brussels are unelected.....and though we have some MEP's their influence is risible.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Just a few points .

We ought not to governed according to opinion polls . That could just take the populist road , and lead politicians to duck making good decisions on necessary but unpopular issues .

Referendums should have no place in our democracy . I agree with Clement Attlee , the best prime minister of my lifetime so far , when he said that they are just not British .
We have a parliamentary democracy , and we send M.P.s to Parliament to be our representatives , not our delegates . It is for them to make decisions which they believe are best for the country . So for me any referendum on the EU or on any other matter is to be rejected .

As for the EU , I hope that Parliament will continue to support UK membership of the EU unless some better alternative is proposed . I have yet to see any anti-EU people propose a viable alternative to EU membership . I recall Neil Kinnock saying : " You don't play politics with peoples' jobs . " That is just what those such as UKIP are doing .

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

While I agree that we should not be governed by opinion polls.
There is no democracy if those who are elected to serve us do not listen to the concerns of those who elected them.

We do not need to be part of something that is so corrupt it has not had a budget signed of for something like 20 years.
An organisation where we can make no valuable representation...where those who have all the power are unelected.....and therefore answerable to no-one.
We need to be able to determine our own laws...not have them imposed from across the water.
I do not identify with Europe. We were led into an organisation which we were told was purely for trade....yet it is ever increasingly becoming political and wants to have closer financial control over us. So we were misinformed...lied to...bamboozled.
We have been promised many times, by different political parties, a chance to have a say...this has never materialised.Back in 1975 I voted against the EEC(as it was then)I feared it would become a United States of Europe.......and that is the aim. Nothing to do with trade at all.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

many companies big and small are trading with the united emirates and in a lot of cases setting up offices in Dubai infact Dubai is a thriving place for UK buisness

we dont need the EU if they dont want to trade with us theres plenty out there that will and they wont tell us how straight a bannana has to be either or to wear a high viz jacket when peeling one

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

I agree.
We traded successfully in the past...we can do so again in the future...in a wider world.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

we are in the age of online shopping now

i buy my parts for things from china it cuts out all the extras added on by countries in the EU including the UK for the same exact item

by extras i mean £'s :)

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The reason that this topic intrigues me is that I ... and no doubt others among us ... sense that democracy is under attack; and threats to the economy are often thrown up to justify its erosion in favour of businesslike management. Come to think of it, the same arguments are advanced in order to derail any effective action on environmental issues. Obviously, the EU is not an issue that concerns me. But the decline of democracy does.

But, to address your points. I definitely agree that countries can not be governed according to opinion polls. But, I do not agree that referenda have no place in a democracy, though I do think they should be used sparingly. Some issues, fundamental to the future of the country, demand a referendum. The vote on Scottish independence is one obvious example.

I do believe that the relationship between voters and MPs is open for debate. There is a great difference between a representative and a delegate. I, myself, would go for "delegate." Where power resides in a democracy is no mere academic question. Does power rest with the people, or, as is increasingly obvious in Canada, with the Prime Minister's Office, or in the States, following a recent Supreme Court decision, with those like the Koch brothers, who have more than enough money to buy elections?

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

There is no democracy. When the MP's cease to take account of the concerns of the electorate...dismiss the concerns.....then where does it leave democracy?
It isn't democracy when these elected MP's think they know better than those who elected them and act accordingly. Taking no acount of the wishes of the electorate...but following party directives is not democratic.
There is no democracy unless people feel that their vote can achieve some kind of change.

Why do people fail to use their vote? Might it be because they really don't think it will change anything?

What is the point of voting if the EU mandarins are going to be making the decisions about our future anyway?

Soon MP's will become obsolete. The EU will see to that.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

dont forget the person who has the job of telling the members of the EU what to do isnt elected so the whole of europe is basically a dictatorship

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Exactly!

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Haha...gotta love the irony of that percentage you quote....by the way how much public money went into commissioning that particular pointless survey?

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Right enlighten me, WHO is this everyone????? Cos more than many of the people i come in contact with are certainly wishing OUT of the E.U. never mind a sodding referendum.:rolleyes: Most people i see are of a concrete opinion, this is not the common market I n many of em voted for, back in the day.And by the way i and most of my friends were or still are Labour Voters, as you are probably aware.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Strange that the whips were out in force on that particular vote, if 'everyone agreed'??....

The only common sense that ruled on that particular day was 'if I dont vote the way I'm told I'm pretty much screwed by the in-crowd hierarchy of the party'

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Cashy, it must be the 'everyone' that we don't know...(although JCB want us to stay in the EU)......all of the people that I come into regular social contact with, want out too.
But we are not in the G.Jones social circle.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

That is spot on.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

a referendum would have also given the people who want to stay in their say

the people who want to stay in got screwed as well

jones and those who voted like him not only betrayed the people but the foundation that this country is based on .

Our children ,brothers, sisters ,mothers etc get sent abroad to fight for democracey while the likes of this lot deny us ours

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Speak fer yerself Margaret, I am slightly in his social circle,in fact regard him as a mate. Still dont stop me saying me piece, If Graham sees me,he always comes oer fer a natter,

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Well I nipped over to populus and did a quick search, couldn't find a survey about Europe not being important so could you link to your fabled 95% please?

I did find this:-

Britain and the survival of the European project - Populus

so that's not important is it? Though it did lead me to this:-

Policy Network - News

Lots and lots of percentages there it's like a feast day for statisticians!

However the nearest thing to 95% was 80% on there perhaps that's near enough to 95% for you? But it is to do with staying out of the Euro so it isn't accurate enough even for a politician to use, (or is it?).
Still what do I know? I'm only someone in your 5% that DOES think Europe is important, wrong, but important.
:alright:

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Cashy....the 'we' I referred to is my circle of social contacts. I should have made it clearer.
Apart from JCB.....who I only know from here, I don't know another single person who wishes to remain in the EU.
Most of the people I come into contact with are filled with resentment and vehemence that they have never been give a choice over their own destiny....well apart from the time back in !975, when we were lied to......and some of those I meet were not old enough to vote in '75'.

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Statistics? I do not trust them. People do not always tell the truth in surveys.......and the questions that are put to them are very important......the way they are worded can be misleading. Which in turn will mean the result is misleading.
There is only one way any political party will find out what the British people want.
That is to ask them a very simple question with a YES or NO answer.
The question is:- Do you want Britain in the EU?
This would settle the issue. So why are we not being asked?

Well Mr Jones in his infinite wisdom thinks he knows better than us. He thinks that we do not have the wherewithal to decide for ourselves what the answer should be......that we do not understand the nuts and bolts of the EU.

Also we may vote the 'wrong' way...even though the statistics(those things that I don't trust, also seem to enjoy little trust from those in the know) suggest that 60% of Britains would vote to stay in.
Which would leave the government is something of a quandary - even though there is no legal duty which would make them have to act on this ...there would be a moral duty to do something about it.

Ted Heath tied a knot with his tongue that the teeth of the whole of Britain cannot gnaw through.

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

I have to agree, statistics are often falsehoods used by 95% of the ill-informed to put a smokescreen around 100% of their misinformation!
:rolleyes:

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

Often when statistic are being created the questions are phrased in such a way as to pre-empt the answer that the statistician wants...and of course it depends on who commissions the stats too.
You wouldn't want to be paying for a survey for it to reveal the opposite of what you wanted to show, would you? You might just as well burn your money.

As someone once said 'there are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics'(Mark Twain...I think)

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

There were two Referendum opportunities to vote whether to opt into the Common Market in the 1970s and I'm pretty sure that all the pros and cons were discussed and we knew that it would be an uphill battle to get what was best for Britain.

After the war the UK could either have joined France and Germany in their effort to keep the peace in Europe (eventually became the Common Market), but we decided to use our energies to set up the League of Nations (now the UN).

In the 1950s-1960s I worked for a large engineering company which manufactured earth moving equipment and which exported 78% of its products all over the world. However, it was noticeable after I married and lived in France and Holland in the late 1960s that those products weren't being sold on mainland Europe. There were building projects everywhere we travelled but not one project was using what was definitely the best and most modern earth moving equipment in the world (now owned by an American company).

It wasn't until the Common Market debate came about that I realised why the UK's import figures (mainly for food & raw materials) far exceeded our export figures. This being that the only countries with money were USA, Canada, Australia & New Zealand - we did sell to the colonies but they were buying goods with the money the UK government handed them. There was money on the European mainland but that full market was denied us because they'd built a massive trading wall around them, not only with quotas but with import duties which made British goods too expensive because they were made with an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. The thinking was that as we couldn't change the Common Market regulations from the outside, we stood a better chance of changing things to our advantage once we were members.

What I consider being lied to was in the 1990s when we opted out of the Social Chapter of the Maastricht Treaty, and no sooner had the ink dried and we landed back in Britain, the blighters moved one important clause from the paragraph headed "Work Directive" (which we had not signed up to) over to the paragraph headed "Health Directive" (which we had signed up to).

Re: The Labour Gravy Train
 

TheCityUK , who I don't believe are a bunch of numpties , has recently published a report on the effects of the UK leaving the EU .

The report says : " All EU exit options would increase trade costs for high productivity firms - leading to falling output, increased costs, as well as reduced investment. The knock on impact of Brexit would be higher prices and higher unemployment, with lower real wages and growth. "

Gerry Grimstone, Chairman of TheCityUK, said: “Our research clearly shows that leaving the EU would seriously damage economic growth and jobs in the UK. But the EU can and must be improved. It mustn't interfere in things which it does not need to do and it must make a better job of doing the things it has to do. We need to continue saying this loudly and clearly. London is Europe’s financial centre so there is a strong national interest in getting this right.”

I will continue to give such reports due consideration and will not support leaving the EU until I am convinced that there is a viable alternative which will not lead to people being put on the dole just because many find some petty EU regulations irksome .

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There will always be some sections that will produce reports like this.
While I do not believe they are numpties either.....I think they may be overstating things for whatever reasons.
No-one ever said that an exit from the EU would be easy.....it is better than the alternative.
We have been bamboozled.....we have money extracted from us to prop up an experimental currency exercise. We have had legislation thrown at us. All from a bunch of unelected bureaucrats who cannot be sacked, in an organisation which is rife with corruption.

Why didn't we just hand over the keys in 1939.......? Save all those wasted lives.
I'm glad my father isn't here now to see how things have panned out.

If the EU was a business( which is how it was sold to us) would you invest in it knowing that no budget has passed scrutiny for almost two decades?
It is just a good job that we were not dragged into the single currency.....the only thing we can thank Gordon Brown for.
I do not identify with Europe, or anything European.

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Yer perfectly entitled to wish that, I just object to yeh saying petty n irksome, as far as many are concerned its far worse n that.

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I could give you that JCB, but & it's a big but! Some rulings aren't quite so petty & have a very far reaching detrimental effect upon the UK & that is what aggravates folks to the point where it makes them want out.

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Or, as John Diefenbaker said: Politicians use statistics like drunks use lamp posts, more for support than illumination (or something close to that). He also said that "Parliament is more than procedure; it is the custodian of the Nation's freedom." Something else that parliamentarians tend to forget.

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Thank you Eric, you can be relied upon to come up with a post which puts it all in a nutshell..

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Parliment can be likened to a banana storage unit.
They go in green, turn yellow & come out bent.

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Yup - Neil Kinnock didn't do a very good job of sorting that out did he? I remember him being interviewed quite a while afterwards and his reply when asked why he hadn't sorted out the accounts was that he'd been too busy doing other things.

Sterling is on such a different high/low circuit than that of the Euro that I think Brown would have been lynched if he'd given the death knell to our currency. What I think was unforgivable was prior to the 2005 election when Blair wasn't high in popularity; he had a blood rush during a TV interview the week beforehand and said he'd allow a Referendum.on the next Treaty when it was planned that Europe should become a State with a permanent president. Then unbelievably, after all the heads of state had signed and been photographed, Brown surreptitiously snook off and hand in hand with Milliband he too signed the Lisbon Treaty.

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And we, the population are supposed to forget all this skulduggery.....this fraudulent behaviour. We are supposed to trust these people who have not only let us down, but sold us down the river.
We are supposed to believe the guff that they feed us about the motives and intentions of the EU.
These men could not lie straight in bed.
It puts my blood pressure up just thinking about it!

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I loath cheats and liars. I've found that my voice reacts dramatically whenever I discover a dastardly deed in that it can rise above its normal mezzo-soprano level up through the soprano range until it reaches beyond the coloratura soprano high notes to screech level. :hothothot

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You know, I really do think we must have been separated at birth!:)

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pavarotti had teh same thing

if he wanted to practice high notes he attended labour confrences especially those where tony blair spoke

edit

sorry i meant new labour

the two are totally different partys

The Labour Gravy Train
 

It's those shoddy can't be bothered midwives at the NHS to blame Margaret, it seems they weren't too fussy about who they employed, it's hardly surprising you got separated.

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Less...when I was born the NHS was only just born.
It was a bit experimental...like the EU.

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To get back to the original topic,what about slimeball Jack Straws son standing for Rossendale, and the super adulterer and lying 2 jags son.You couldn't make these things up it beggars belief.As for leaving the EU,well that aint going to happen,look at Irelands disaster when they tried,only one set of votes in favour but two against they will re-run until the required one is voted for.

The worst thing government in this country ever did was to educate us,now use it.

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I think you have got that wrong. How can educating us be the worst thing they have done?
They educated us so that we could use our thought processes. It is just such a shame that many people do not use their thought processes to an effective degree.

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jack straws son will be homing in on the junkie/smackhead vote

he will most likely adapt the hug a burka technique used by his father to hug a smackhead

jack straw puzzled me because while acting as a MP he couldnt wait to get his photo taken with someone in a burka but within a matter of days of switching jobs he was calling for them to be banned

i do hope the hug a smackhead catches on because theres a few i would gladly hug around the throat and others shoudl be encouraged to do the same :D

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Dear Margaret when I said educating us was the worst thing the government ever did I meant it from the govrnments point of view ,because education and knowledge are power and before we were educated we were all serfs and slaves,so think of my statement on these lines.we now only have government by consent with free speech as long as no-one listens to what we say.Does any-one think the establishment will allow Farage and UKIP any power.?

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Yes, Jack I sort of guessed that......but originally education was done by religious bodies.
The Governments only got involved quite late in the historical day( I did a teaching qualification and this history of education was my 'long study')

And yes you are right about the fact that no-one in government listens to the little man...which is why I trail along to the polling station and write'none of the above' on my ballot paper.
If more people did this, then perhaps they would get the message that it isn't apathy that has caused a drop in voting numbers, but the fact that the population feel that they cannot influence events by their vote......making democracy non existent.

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What is jack straws son's first name?

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Lucky?

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Will .

If you are interested in the pedigree of politicians , Labour M.P. Tony Benn's ( alias Anthony Wedgwood Benn) father was the Labour M.P. William Wedgwood Benn . Tony Benn's son is the Labour M.P. Hilary James Wedgwood Benn. Tony Benn's granddaughter is Emily Sophia Wedgwood Benn , not a Labour M.P. but an unsuccessful Labour Parliamentary candidate in 2010 . She was the youngest Parliamentary Candidate at the 2010 General Election .

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not sure but his favourite dwarf is dope-y

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I just found DAVOO7's membership card.

Attachment 40356

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i agree somewhat because what good is the current system if you look at a candidates prommises and listen to what he has to say only for him to do the exact opposite of what you voted him in for and have to wait 5 years for your chance to do something about it in which time the majority forget how he screwed them over

oops where i have put "him" i should have put "him/her" as there are of course female crooked people also.I cant imagine why "him" stuck in my mind when thinking of people who lie to the voter.

there needs to be a system in place where MPs can be ejected from their position with imidiate effect and forced to pay back wages earned as a MP and expenses so that they cant simply crawl up their leaders arse and vote how their leader says to vote and not the peoples wishes

these people are only accountable to fellow crooked people its about time they were accountable to the people they shoudl be accountable to and that is the people

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Oh dear, not a good thing taking notice of populus surveys, or any other fer that matter Graham, yeh would be well advised taking more notice of ordinary people, The E.U. n Immigration are the main issues, to most ordinary folk i have spoken too in the last couple of years, Yer 95% is utter rubbish, as is yer Leader, who i see as arrogant n self serving, If yesterdays vote dont make the big 3 wake up n smell the coffee, sod all will!!!

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Don't forget the 1989 elections for the European Parliament .

Yesterday in the local elections UKIP got 17% of the national vote .

In 1989 in the Euro elections the Green Party got 15% of the national vote , and where are they now ?

We have seen all this before in various forms .

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Well aware of that, also aware local votes dont normally transfer into General votes, But UKIP are a different animal in my view, They are saying what many want to hear,but the big 3 aint got the balls to say, watch this space is my opinion. If the 3 dont get their acts together in next 12 months.

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yep The green party wanted cars banning and for us all to wear hemp clothing and i think they blamed cows farts for tHE declining ozone layer and suggested we should be vegitarians or somat.

to be honest they lost me at getting rid of cars and taxing the hell out of fuel even more to stop us using cars