Accrington Web - Battle of Orgreave

Accrington Web (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/index.php)

- General Chat (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/)

- - Battle of Orgreave (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/battle-of-orgreave-67398.html)

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 1142563)

So what is your time limit?
Whatever number you pull out of your head you will still exclude those who have grievances abount earlier incidents

One could impose a limit dictated by common sense.

Of course, when one goes back even to 1819, which is not really all that long ago, one has to strip Peterloo of most of its historical context. Trouble is, it then loses most of its impact as argument and becomes mere rhetoric, such as "Remember the Maine. Fortunately, regression isn't infinite. Eventually, one has to bump into the Big Bang ... not a good idea ... when time itself was created.

And I doubt whether many still have grievances about the Harrying of the North, or the Peasants Revolt, or even the fierce, often violent, struggle to establish unions in the first place.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

The Police, of course, are totally innocent of any wrongdoing during the miners dispute. Even those amongst them who were earning so much in overtime payments they felt obliged to sellotape their payslips to their riot shields in order to provoke the striking pit workers.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 1142608)

Was 2 bragging about how much overtime they were earning in a pub doorway frequented by miners in Burnley also.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1142603)

And I doubt whether many still have grievances about the Harrying of the North.

I'm still not too happy about the hard times the Normans gave us English.
Adding insult to injury- they were French!

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 1142562)

And what time limit do you put on it Cashy - 30, 40, 50, 100 years, where do you draw the line?
What is achieved except a great deal of expenditure of time and money - the perpetrators will be in their dotage or dead.
The way the Yorkshire Police acted was no doubt criminal, but so were some of the actions of the miners and the print workers in their strike.
Scargill's intention was to bring down the government, Thatcher's intent was to break the Union bully boys tactics. He carried on building Arthur's Seat while they were on strike and his members were selling off their coal rations - I witnessed the Notts miners who were still getting there allowance and selling it on - I was one of their customers on Friday evenings in the pub in Flintham Village

I think that you will find that the only people who received the colliery fuel allowance were members of the UDM. By the way it did not prick your conscience that you were buying very cheap coal at the time did it. I bet you didn't say to the guys you were buying it from, No thanks ( Because you were getting it damn nearly free.)

All you read below is FACT. I know because I was part of the management team running a coal mine in the Midlands. I was also part of B.A.C.M who run the mines.
Also if it wasn't for members of the Mine Deputies union. NACODS. Your poxy government would have closed all the mines earlier anyway. All the mines that had no members of the NUM working, always had a mining official underground ( Deputy) 24/7. That way the integrity of the mine was always maintained.
So its not Just about the NUM. It was about the whole communities that surrounded the mining industry. I spent 31 years in the mines, Bankhall, Hapton Valley, Huncoat and Coventry Mine.
Reading things about mining by somebody who hasn't got a clue makes me laugh because you are so ignorant of the facts.
200 police surrounded Coventry Mine. 25 pickets stood in a peaceful and silent protest. I would not allow the police onto the mine premises has I had seen them earlier waving pay packets the the pickets.
Every one of them were from the Met. You haven't a clue mate.

The government and National Coal Board always claimed that only 20 or so Collieries were to be closed. The NUM knew the number was far higher despite its vehement denial by MacGregor and Thatcher. Today shows just how little regard was actually given to the people of the country who were deliberately misled by senior politicians and civil servants.

The painting of the miners as the aggressors and the out and out denial of a secret hit list of more than 70 collieries earmarked for closure are now proven as lies. Mrs Thatcher was involved in the wilful destruction of the coal industry and micro managed the government’s side of the strike, prepared to use any possible measures to win – whilst lying to the country about the scale of the closures programme and simultaneously scheming, no not even scheming to use the armed forces, she did use them to ensure victory.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Well said, Mog. Some people make a habit of spouting off without getting their facts right.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 1142654)

Well said, Mog. Some people make a habit of spouting off without getting their facts right.

Normally Tories.:rolleyes:

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Yes you are right there Cashy, They stick out a mile mate.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 1142654)

Well said, Mog. Some people make a habit of spouting off without getting their facts right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1142655)

Normally Tories.:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mog (Post 1142663)

Yes you are right there Cashy, They stick out a mile mate.

It's funny, it's much harder to identify Labourites. Mind you I don't suppose there are many of them left now;)

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1142669)

It's funny, it's much harder to identify Labourites. Mind you I don't suppose there are many of them left now;)

I dont suppose there is, but Tories stick out like a sore thumb.:rolleyes:

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1142670)

I dont suppose there is, but Tories stick out like a sore thumb.:rolleyes:

Of course they do!
When you know right is on your side you have to stand up and be proud!:D

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mog (Post 1142652)

Reading things about mining by somebody who hasn't got a clue makes me laugh because you are so ignorant of the facts.

There is nothing about "mining" in my post, only the action of some miners, perhaps you should take a little more care in reading it.
No I didn't have any attack of conscience when buying coal from them - I had a wife, three children and an ailing mother to provide for in a house that only had solid fuel heating.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 1142712)

Yes and so did loads of other people have families to support, that's why they went on strike to fight for their jobs and to stop the closures of the coal mines.

Re: Battle of Orgreave

To be honest in my view those that supported the action Thatcher took, I have wiped better off the sole of my shoe.:(

Re: Battle of Orgreave

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1142760)

To be honest in my view those that supported the action Thatcher took, I have wiped better off the sole of my shoe.:(

You have such a picturesque way with words!

Let's put aside the emotion and remember a few facts.

Arthur Scargill. Started life as a Communist, like his father. Although of course he ended up Labour, presumably knowing Communism wouldn't give him the power he wanted in the UK.
Spent some happy times in the USSR and Czechoslovakia.
Brought down one democratically elected Government in 1974.
Decided it would be good to bring down another in the interests of 'political militancy'.
Good at stirring speeches, I always expected him to shout 'Sieg Heil' at the end.
Made four mistakes- a megalomaniac can't afford that many-

1- Lost three pro strike ballots (one by a 60% no strike majority) so decided to bring the minors out without a ballot. That divided the miners and weakened his support.

2- Gave the government plenty of warning of his plans to shut down the whole country, not just the pits. The Government had time to take precautionary action.

3-Called the strike in Summer, worst time for a coal strike.

4- Miscalculated his opponent, Thatcher was as bloody minded as him.

The Miners strike wasn't just a strike, it was a class war to bring down a democratically elected Government. Both sides knew whoever lost was finished so both sides fought hard and dirty- that's war.

He lost and was finished, Thatcher got re-elected and stayed on until she also became a megalomaniac.

It was good to see how well he survived the disaster he caused though, kept his free cars(didn't he like Jags?) and his free £34,000 a year rented second home in London.

Also nice to know he didn't disagree with everything Thatcher did. He tried to buy his free flat, at a discount, using her Right to Buy scheme. Missed a million or two there. Sad.

Now there's someone I wouldn't like on the sole of my shoe.