Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I started this thread a month ago, and have watched the leadership election with interest. I was actually shocked at the cynical way the other three candidates insisted on insulting the electorate with the traditional Westminster Bubble approach of never answering the question with a straight answer. I thought they might have got it that approach belongs in the past.

It got the treatment it deserved. Complete rejection. And Cameron and Co need to take note, because they still follow that line.

Jeremy Corbyn might or might not be the answer. He might or might not have the answers. But at least he brings a fresh approach of honesty and integrity which the other politicians don't have.

The next 6 months make for fascinating viewing!

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Also i noted that he never attacked the other candidates, thats a novelty,:rolleyes:I also noted the way Straw @ Blair and other big wigs insulted the Labour membership by attacking J.C.:( the public may be many things, but they know n insult when its yon.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

It is a bad ploy to throw insults at your opponents,or to use derogatory terms, and it usually means that you have lost the argument or that you do not understand the fundamentals which are being discussed.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Of course, you are right, it took more than a decade for it to be systematically dismantled.......and to my mind it cannot be rebuilt in the same form again. Too much has happened and many people have lost faith and confidence in not just the Labour party, but politics in general.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

When Ed Milliband resigned I did a bit of Googling to see which Labour politicians shared my views , and which I thought would make good leaders . One name kept cropping up.....Jeremy Corbyn .

There were some of his views I had problems with.....they have been mentioned on this thread.

About 3 or 4 weeks ago I listened to Any Questions on Radio 4 . Jeremy Corbyn was on the panel , and I was impressed by how he answered the questions , and with his approach to politics .

That got me into watching Youtube , which by then was full of interviews and speeches he had made at the hustings .

I found that he dealt with the "problem issues" in such a way that he put them into context.....something the media don't usually do......and I felt more at ease with what he was saying .

I must say that Trident is not a problem issue for me.....I wish Trident a speedy demise .

As you say he does bring a fresh approach of honesty and integrity . He doesn't go in for personal abuse .

Yes , for those so inclined , the next few months will be interesting .

After the debacles of the 1980s the Labour party learned its lesson the hard way . The trouble was it went to another extreme and ended up being smothered by control freaks .

This leadership election has given its voice back to ordinary Labour Party members.....those who have given their free time , often slogging their guts out to get Labour MPs into Parliament ......only to find that those MPs end up as lobby fodder for those at the top who think they have superior knowledge to those at the bottom .

From what I've learned of him over the last few weeks , Jeremy Corbyn intends to free the Labour party up . It will be messy at times . So what ? That's how democracy usually works sometimes . I think it will lead to a greater participation of the people , and again that will be messy at times , but it's good that people participate and are listened to .

Jeremy Corbyn shouldn't be underestimated . It's less than 3 months since he was nominated as a nobody candidate and today he's won with a record number of votes .

I have a hunch that Jeremy Corbyn will initiate an annual election for the leader , so that each year he will have to put up for re-election.....I'm probably wrong , but it would fit in with his way of thinking .

So am I being starry-eyed about Jeremy Corbyn ? Not really.....I can remember electable Labour leaders and those who went on to be Prime Minister.....Harold Wilson , Jim Callaghan , Tony Blair , Gordon Brown......that short litany removes any illusions I may be tempted to have about Labour leaders , but above all about the Labour Prime Ministers post Clement Attlee .

But give the man a chance .

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

When Tony Balir said dont vote for Corbyn, I knew he was the right man for the job!

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Hmmm, three words in there you don't often see together - honesty, integrity & politician?? - got to be honest, I don't know much about the ins & outs of this leadership contest but if this Corbyn has these qualities maybe the labour party could start to get back to it's roots - guess time will tell

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Well one things for sure the public cant use the line 'They're all the same.' anymore.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

He's effectively scuppered Labour's chances of winning in 2020, if he's still leading the party then. Firstly, most of the electorate aren't hard left socialists, so a lot of his views will be anathema to them. No way are they going to go for a man who wants to scrap our nuclear deterrent and leave NATO...who consistently supports terrorists (apparently, he doesn't understand why we're sending drones to kill murderous fascist traitors who wish nothing but harm to this country) and who wants to invite more refugees to our shores.

Talking of which...his first action after being voted leader was to go to a "We welcome the refugees" rally. Got his priorities right there, then. ;)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I really dont believe yeh are that brainwashed wyn?:confused: people are already sick to the back teeth of Camerons ways, summat i hear regular in me jaunts about, Labour as it stood were NO alternative to that sleezebag, yeh should have the good sense to wait and see what develops by 2020, yeh are sounding as bad as the 7 ****es that have resigned to my mind.:rolleyes:

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Brainwashed by what? Corbyn's a hard left socialist...fact. He wants to dispense with our nuclear weapons and leave NATO...fact. He's grumbling about sending drones to kill terrorist traitors...fact. He wants to admit more of the current wave of refugees ("But for now, the UK could and should be taking in many more refugees. We must coordinate UK intervention with our European partners and agree upon a proportionate and compassionate response to bring an end to the desperate suffering." - his words...not newspaper talk)...fact.

What makes me laugh is that if an Accywebber came on here and posted exactly those same views, you'd be the first one to call them a "bleeding heart, do-gooding liberal" and all sorts of other less complimentary names!

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

One swallow doesn't make a summer.:)
One honest politician in a parliament of how many?
I think we can still say that most of them are a shower of Fisons.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

And those are the very things which should be worrying us the most.....the fact that they are his words.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

When did he say those words? that was then!! this is Now, I will be concerned if he were to say them now, until then i'm prepared to give the guy a chance, we all know times change, some of my views when younger are not valid today, i reckon most older people can say that?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

So you really think that because he said them in the past(and we are not talking about when the guy was in his twenties - we are talking recent past, recent events and you are just as capable as me in seeking them out if you want to).....that he no longer subscribes to those ideas?
The business about taking out the guys who had gone to syria to fight for ISIS was recently....he couldn't see the reasoning for it...despite the fact that they were planning atrocities on home soil.
Yes, I agree with you we all say things in our youth which age and experience cause us to regret, but these things that he has said are recent....of the current time and political scene.
Yes, I will wait and see, and that was a phrase i used in an earlier post...but I have not a lot of hope that this man can do one jot of good to the Labour party

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I do not know Margaret, But i do know that oer quarter of a million people have joined the Labour party, in the past 3 months, that is incredible? and tells me that people are heartily sick of whats been on offer politically, so thats why i'm happy to see how things pan out, and those 7 that have resigned from the shadow cabinet, should in my view be drummed out of the party, as i said before its an insult to the members that voted, the are only watered down torys and not fit to hold any office in my view.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Yes you are right about the Labour Party having become a pale version of the Tory party.
The numbers joining the Labour Party show that sometimes hope triumphs over experience.
I have(like you) lived a long time and I know that sometimes what seems like a good plan doesn't work out well when you try to put it into practice.

It might seem like a good idea to re nationalise utilities, railways and the like.
It may seem like a good idea to tax the rich and give it to the poor and disadvantaged......it might seem like a good idea to leave NATO, to ditch Trident....To allow as many migrants into the country as the place can take...All of these ideas are just that ideas.....and useless in opposition(well, I suppose he could block the current crew from taking some actions)
I get the feeling.....and it IS only a feeling the this man does not like Britain very much....and much of what he seems to want to do will not enrich us.
But, we can only wait and see how the thing pans out.......I really don't think it will be better for the likes of us...but I DO hope I am wrong!

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

That will be my last post to this thread...I really think I have nothing more to add anything to the discussion at the present time.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Then, you should be concerned, as he said them in his article in the "Independent" last week which I pasted on post 50. Similarly, his disapproval of sending drones to wipe out British passport holders who may be plotting against this country is from last week. His views on unilateral nuclear disarmament are well-known and have been the same for years.

However, you're quite right, mate, let's give the bloke a chance and only judge him on what he does after becoming leader. Here's the first thing he did...

Jeremy Corbyn addresses London refugee rally - BBC News

I'm sure you were there with him in spirit! ;)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Just an observation......Denis Healey was once a member of the Communist Party......gave a strongly left-wing speech to the Labour Party conference in 1945.......became Secretary of State for Defence......became Chancellor of the Exchequer.......became deputy leader of the Labour Party.......in 2006 he said : " Nuclear weapons are infinitely less important in our foreign policy than they were in the days of the Cold War" and "I don't think we need nuclear weapons any longer" ...... in 2013 he said : " "I wouldn't object strongly to leaving the EU. The advantages of being members of the union are not obvious. The disadvantages are very obvious. I can see the case for leaving – the case for leaving is stronger than for staying in . "

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

That's the whole point...Denis WAS a member of the Communist Party, but his views changed as time went by; most people's do, due to experience, maturity, changing circumstances etc. Even Jeremy Corbyn's friends and colleagues admit that his views are exactly the same as they were when he was a young man; still the same old hard-left zealot. As for Denis's views on nuclear weapons, I was minded to think the same in the flush of post-cold war euphoria, but times have changed and the world's a more dangerous place, due to conflagrations in the Middle East (caused partly by ours and the Yanks' meddling it has to be said) and Putin's territorial ambitions. I wonder if Denis still thinks the same today? Totally agree with him on the EU, though, but what's Jeremy's view on this and will it matter when he's running for office in 2020, as presumably the whole issue will have been settled one way or the other by the electorate?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I didn't know that you were familiar with Boswell's "Life".;)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Jeremy Corbyn's views on the EU , Wyn ?

He says he is not content with the EU as it stands, but wants to stay to fight for a "better Europe". He had previously refused to rule out campaigning to leave.......so a bit vague .

He's not as positive as Alan Johnson who heads the Labour "Yes" campaign for the referendum . :rolleyes:

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Yep, I like Alan Johnson, but do I not like that! ;)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Neither do I ... tho' it ain't really none of my business; the brass to maintain this risible deterrent don't come outa my taxes. It certainly isn't deterring ISIS ... but the money wasted on nukes, or some of it, could be spent on building conventional forces, particularly rapid response. Let's face it, if it comes to a nuclear war those nukes of yours are irrelevant. The world will be so badly [deleted]ed over that an extra few megatons ain't gonna make a blind bit of difference. The frogs have been scaling back their Force de Dissuasion since '96. Maybe it's time. Maybe Corbyn has this one right. The apologizing to Iraq thingy seems kinda dumb. What does one say? "Hey guys, we [deleted]ed up big time. Sorry that we turned your country into a massive pile of shiite."

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

now that obama has given a green light for iran to develope their own nuke program id say we need them more than ever

at the very least we could nuke them back if one of them has a religious episode telling them to nuke the infidels

dont like em and wish they had never been invented but we need them now they are here

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I suggest drop all ours on ISIS and then dont replace em.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

was about to suggest something very similar

just a wider scope but over that general direction

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

This is the kind of misunderstanding of Obama's foreign policy that The Donald would come up with. Consider the alternatives to a negotiated arrangement: Doing nothing. Having another multi-trillion dollar cluster [deleted] in the Middle East.

It's a no-brainer; Obama is dead right on this one. And Congress seems to be onside.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

sory but i dont think Iran will keep to any agreement and my opinion has nothing to do with donald trump or even donald duck

even if Iran dont develop nukes i feel a lot better having them while other countries have them especially ones that go a bit mental when religion is concerned

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

That would be the USA.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Graham Jones has resigned from his position as a shadow party whip .

East Lancashire MP quits shadow whip job over Jeremy Corbyn?s landslide victory (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

So he is another pseudo socialist who has no faith in his leader.
Rat and sinking ship are words that come to mind.
I expect that this new ship has a captain that can keep it afloat.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Jumped before he was pushed ?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

my thoughts exactly

looks better if you walk away than fired

from how quick the new shoadow cabinet was formed the decision was made way before the vote and im sure word got around westminster or at least the labour party what was happening

put as much spin on it as you want his days were numbered because he backed the wrong guy

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

when i found this news out yesterday it started raining

maybe tehres a rainbow in this somewhere

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

According to Cashy :- "If were gonna go back in history then the only fact we have an NHS is down to a Labour Government"
Come off it mate! You are accusing Wynonie of being brainwashed, but maybe you should re-read the history. If it hadn't been for Churchill there would have been no NHS.
We’re so used to Labour politicians churning out the line that Labour gave us the NHS, that we’ve begun to unthinkingly accept it.
The NHS owes its existence to the climate of wartime British politics, not least the vastly expanded access to basic healthcare which came with conscription, and the subsequent rise in expectations.the wartime coalition of 1940-5 fostered a remarkable degree of consensus. In social policy, this resulted in the seminal 1942 report Social Insurance and Allied Services, chaired by the Liberal economist William Beveridge – better known as the Beveridge Report. In this, Beveridge set out a comprehensive state plan of social care. Section 19 of the report is the first public mention of a “National Health Service.”
The point is that a Conservative post-war government under Churchill was fully signed up to introducing the NHS. A Liberal post-war government under Sinclair was fully signed up to introducing the NHS. The NHS was not Labour’s great achievement, it was an inescapable conclusion.
It wasn’t until a report commissioned by a Conservative-led coalition, and chaired by a Liberal economist, that the Labour party showed any serious inclination towards social reform, and only after the other two parties had embraced it.
These exaggerated claims that the NHS owes its whole creation to the Labour party are only possible through ignorance and misrepresentation of the past, of what was a cross-party consensus. The NHS was Britain’s triumph, not Labour’s.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

You could have given us the full content from the website by and for Lib Dem supporters. :rolleyes:

Anyway , here it is.......Setting the Record Straight: Labour and the NHS

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Didn't want to bore you.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

If the Conservatives were so keen on the introduction of the NHS why did they vote against the formation of the NHS 21 times before the act was passed, including both the Second and Third reading.

On 2th July, 1946, the Third Reading was carried , 261 voting for , 113 voting against .

And the 113 voting against weren't the socialists .

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Dunno, I was only 2 y.o. at the time, but I'll do some research and get back to you, although I imagine you know the answers already! I would hazard a guess
it was because they realised the act as drafted by Labour couldn't be funded fully in those times of real austerity, unlike today's light austerity. I do know the government had to introduce prescription charges when reality eventually dawned on them. Familiar story, eh?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

pitty they cant come to the same conculsion more than once and make the rest of teh UK pay prescription charges and not just england

imagine how much revenue could be created to help the NHS if the jocks ,and welsh paid their way instead of just draining the NHS pot

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Am very disappointed in Graham Jones, after reading the Observer today, I am convinced he has no idea what a socialist is.:rolleyes: Corbyn has only been elected, by the wishes of the membership. nothing else, the fact hes showing no regard fer that is abysmal imho. Whilst i certainly do not agree by any stretch, all of corbyns aims, I intend to support him, as the right wing of Labour is now Tory copies. DISGRACFUL IMHO.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

This is all very nice; but as history shows, agreements made in wartime are quite often tossed into the garbage can when hostilities cease. One can see several examples of this: The Treaty of London, 1915 was ditched, and the Sykes-Picot Agreement, 1916, was implemented at the Paris peace talks of 1919, amidst a dog's breakfast of conflicting assurances: One thinks immediately of the Balfour Declaration, 1917, and the promises make to Sharif Hussein bin Ali.

Anyway, enough of history; anybody with the time to waste can easily inform himself ... the bottom line is that tories are opposed to things like the NHS, whether these tories are your bunch of assholes, or the Republican Party in the USofEh, or our own Conservative Party of Canada. It is up to progressive parties not only to protect, but also expand free, universal health care. In prosperous countries such as the UK free health care should be a right. We might as well add a strong social safety net and all that implies for education and housing. Tories everywhere don't give a flying [deleted] about stuff like this. The only hope for the little guy is a strong, democratic socialist party committed to making things better for everyone ... apart from the very rich who can damn well take care of themselves, and, by the by, pay more taxes on the obscene amount of loot they control.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

this is why churchill was voted out in the biggest election shock ever. he and the tories were against the nhs even the doctors who in them days were tory voters. as Bevan said i had to feed them with gold for them to agree . during the war in 1942/43 the country leaned to the left. the beveridge report was printed on pamphlet and distributed to the forces overseas to keep heighten morale as it was low. so the promise was made and churchill made a fatal mistake of saying for this to work it would need a socialist gestapo hence the tory slaughter in the election.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I keep saying it again and again, Corbyn as Labour leader is giving the Tories a free hand to carry on destroying the NHS, the Welfare State and lots of other things, too. He may appeal to socialists, but there aren't enough socialists in the British electorate to sweep him to power in 2020.

Can't understand the national anthem fuss, though. Agnostic republican doesn't sing "God Save The Queen". How surprising. :rolleyes:

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

No wyn, but may well be enough folk brassed off wi the way politics has gone, and i feel there could well be.;) and thats just speaking to folk around accy.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Well, he's still a novelty and PMQ's shows he certainly has a different way of doing things. The novelty will have long worn off by 2020 (if he lasts that long) and it could well be a completely different political landscape.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Myself and daughter delighted by results last week and even gave a round of applause after Corbyn's speech. I have been a member of the Labour party sporadically, I prefer real Labour, this is what we haven't seen since John Smith passed away , someone a bit different from the normal production line. I hope that Corbyn gets the chance to make a difference, I really think he can.

And as an aside, suddenly everyone cares about politics when 2 weeks ago no-one a gave a monkeys....

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

perhaps thats because its a recent event and in the news , media and press a lot ?

could say the same about football

no one really cares until its world cup time then all of a sudden its football fever even for them who dont usually bother with league football etc

everyone suddenly becomes an expert too lol :D

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I suspect that Mr Corbyn may prove to be an effective leader of the opposition but is not electable as PM because he does not dance to the populist tune of the mainstream media. I think that his only chance of gaining widespread support among non-labour members is to galvanise the young and rekindle their involvement in the current voting process. My son's generation seems to be growing increasingly indifferent as to the outcome of a process which they feel is an outdated model of democracy.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Lot of sense in that, but aint sure hes not electable? have spoken to quite a few middle aged n owd farts like me, who reckon hes whats needed, though the widespread involvement of the young will probably be the main requirement, and thats certainly not outa the question imho.:)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Thats an outdated and past its use by date media for you.....deflect from anything relevant by pointing out the irrelevant...

Then again idiots who vote for our MP drink this kinda nonsense like they drink in the latest crud about xfactor wannabees and football wags.

You’re a teacher…educate him, show him that the only chance of real change, short of an unlikely violent revolution, is to vote in someone who has a different viewpoint and offers something different, show him how the mainstream media like to twist things in order to maintain the status quo.

Or you could just leave him to his apathy, hoping that someone else will somehow, somewhere do something…

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Ah, he's anything but apathetic. He just does not buy into MOTR politics and the media circus dedicated to maintaining the status quo. As I'm sure you know, there's a growing subculture which eschews the sources most of us depend of for news and "guidance" and rely on self generated, self researched sources of information.
Sometimes I'm not sure who is the niaive one, him or me.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I'll throw a bit in here about the Government in Australia - we've now had 5 changes of Prime Minister in 5 years (4 people, one had two bites of the cherry)...and you think you have political problems!!!!

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Well it all seems to have gone quiet, perhaps cos the torys are pigging about?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

The Tories aren't going to pull him down.
They see him as their guarantee of a second term.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

A bit soon to be writing off Corbyn and Labour ain't it? The tories have over four more years in which to screw up. The latest economic figures show a larger deficit than expected, in large part owing to a drop in corporate tax receipts ... the greedy sonsabitches are using tax shelters like it's goin' outa style. The NHS is under attack ... and the next round of slash and burn economics is soon coming up. Perhaps the best thing that could happen for Labour is that Cameron and his crew will start to feel too secure, although they may stay away from the trough for a while:D As Shakespeare wrote: And you all know, security/Is mortals' chiefest enemy.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Nah they daren't pull him down, he may just do n ashcroft if they do.:D

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

The tories with a free hand may create those socialists. And, it ain't over till the fat lady sings.;)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

A good strong democracy needs a good strong Government.
But it also needs a good strong Opposition.
Without both it's in danger of ceasing to be a democracy.

Corbyn seems a nice quiet guy but nice quiet guys don't come out on top, especially when their policies are so dated. He's never given us a costing for re-nationalising the railways and the utility companies, free tuition fees, nationalising the banks, removing all elements of privatisation from the NHS etc.
Stripping off a few hundred rich bankers and fat cats won't pay for all that.
Even the Russians and the Chinese have progressed beyond his ideas. North Korea hasn't, do any of us fancy that?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

But the billions spent on replacing Trident will go a heck of a long way to paying for it .

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

The Tories had a free hand in 1979. They decimated our industries and caused untold misery in the country, yet they were re-elected in 1983. One of the main reasons was that the Labour Party was led by Michael Foot - a left-wing socialist just like Jeremy Corbyn.

Don't get me wrong - I think Corbyn's a thoroughly decent bloke. It speaks volumes that he chose to help one of his constituents with her housing problems rather than go to Twickenham to watch the rugby - for which he was roundly mocked by that odious, braying ex-public school tosspot, Boris Johnson.

Whether being a decent bloke will be enough to get him to No 10 in 2020, I have my doubts.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Eric has a good point,in my view, I reckon enough people have been turned off voting, by a set of complete ******* (from all parties) J.C. so far seems to me,to be awakening many folk. the bullshine n buzz-word society, i think many of the public are truly brassed off with, and on that basis alone, could create a big shock to many people.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

If he wants to re-nationalise the railways we cannot be in the EU - that would be against the monopoly rules.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

i couldn't find any mention of it ? :D

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

A militant vegan as Shadow Minister of Agriculture...hmmm, probably not his best idea.
Meat-eaters should be treated like smokers, says the vegan shadow environment secretary Kerry McCarthy | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

In '83 the tories rode to victory on the back of success in the Falkland War. And it still seemed in the 80s that voodoo economics would bring about the general prosperity that had been promised as early as Lloyd George ... "fit country for heroes to live in.":rolleyes: When prosperity did arrive, with Teflon Tony at the helm, no one seemed to realize how fragile it was, with, what, thirty per cent of your economy centred in The City. Perhaps there is an argument to be made that Labour can't win by going back to their old ideas. Well the tories won your last election and they haven't had a new idea since 1819 (I picked the year of Peterloo for no particular reason.)

Thing is, I've been reading the news about Corbyn, he might be a decent bloke; his politics may be decent too. But he's starting to come across plainly as so [deleted]ing politically correct ... apologizing for this and that; showing solidarity with Hamas (nice bunch of lads who occasionally get a little too careless with their AKs and rocket launchers). Maybe it's all an image thing; maybe he truly believes in all that warm fuzzy horse manure. I'm not suggesting that, in order to be a strong leader, one has to go out and kick ass (why does George Bush come to mind.) But neither can you go around kissing ass. If you do, eventually, someone is going to [deleted] in your face.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Yep, a good war always helps and Cameron's already made a start on that one by sending drones to blast a couple of British passport holding ISIS members to kingdom come. Corbyn predictably doesn't approve. No doubt more will follow with perhaps a full-scale bombing campaign, with Corbyn tut-tutting from the sidelines. That'll play well to his leftwing supporters, but not so well with the general electorate. As for "voodoo economics", the Tories are still practicing it and as you say, they won the last election, so it'll take more than Corbyn to shift 'em.

As for Corbyn's political correctness, right on the money. That's what I've been saying from the start of this thread. Corbyn regularly comes out with the sort of ideas that would have him castigated as a "bleeding heart liberal do-gooder" if he aired them on Accyweb. but apparently he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

What burns my ass about this is that it gives good ideas a bad name ... takes a good idea like civil rights (well outlined and defined in the US Civil Rights Act, 1964) and ruins the goddam thing by taking it to ridiculous extremes. I care about the environment ... why not, it's where I live ... but I'm not a tree hugger. I'm opposed to capital punishment, not because of any concern about the human rights of murderers and assorted scum, but because it doesn't work ... in the sense that it ain't a deterrent. If it were, there wouldn't have been over 12,000 hand gun homicides in the US last year. One can hold progressive ideas and not be a politically correct idiot. What I see as PCism is the ridiculous response to the picture of that dead kid being washed ashore. Sad, yes; but it's just one dead kid out of thousands who die every day in this sad, [deleted] up world of ours. And most of those thousands died suffering from disease, starvation, genocide, as child soldiers ... you know the picture. PCers focus on the one, because it's dramatic and makes good news on CNN. The others are left forgotten, suffering in silence. I think it's time to stop ranting.

The danger that I see from Corbyn is that he will taint good ideas ... let's lump them together and call them "socialism" ... with his warm fuzzy ideas. But it would still, I believe, be wrong to write him off so soon after his election.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

His shadow cabinet don't seem to be helping much. The Shadow Environment has stated that meat should be treated like tobacco???????? That will certainly go down well with the livestock farmers.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

the guy obviously needs a slap around the head preferably with a pack of smoked bacon ;)

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

It already is treated like tobacco: it comes in small packages which cost and arm and a leg.

But I do get your point. Now, if the shadow health minister had come out and commented about the strain being put on the NHS by obesity and its buddy, diabetes; and state that it would benefit everyone if certain foods ... Rotten Ronnie's burgers come to mind ... carried warning labels, or at least a table of contents, that would be reasonable. But a comment like that from the Environment Shadow is pure PC bullshine. Maybe that person thinks that a major cut in beef production would help slow down global warming, as there would be fewer cattle farting methane into the atmosphere.:rolleyes:

What always pees me off about PC politicians is that their pulpit is a position of privilege: An overpaid job which involves little work, and carries with it an obscenely inflated expense account and numerous other perks.:mad:

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Cracking post mate.

True socialism is about common sense and the common good...something that the 'alleged socialist' mainstream Labour party has forgotten. The word 'social' loosely means people working/sharing for the common good. The strong look after the weak, the young care for the old and all the other cliches that people like our Labour MP has forgotten in his attempted rise to power by forcing his colleagues, under threat of deselection, to vote for party rather than conscience.

Yeah, Corbyn has nutjob ideas...then again so does Cameron...Corbyn has a nutjob Shadow agricultural minister..Cameron gives you..Ian Duncan Smith (murderer of the sick and infirm), Michael Gove (Screwed up the school system and is now happily screwing up the justice system), George Osborne (a failed journalist let loose with the finances of the country and despite warnings from learned economists is barreling on with his version of austerity which screws us plebs whilst allowing his rich mates and their companies immunity), Theresa May (a home secretary who has done more stupid U turns than I see at Dill Hall lights)

Point is Corbyn has his faults...he has some crazy ideas and he is far too PC for my liking, but he is a valid alternative. And unlike people like our MP he would not throw his toys out of the pram if things didn't go his way, nor would he deselect party members for having an alternative view to his own...he actually believes in democracy

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Never a truer statement made ... I know what common sense is; I grew up in Lancashire in the 50s ... seems like it was bred in the bone.:D And there's the other thing: knowing what's right and what's wrong. We don't need "guidelines", "seminars", "charters of equality", the "ten commandments" and whatever the muslim equivalent is, and all that PC bullcrap ... we know. And it's not hard to know. I believe it's a quality of humanity. And I firmly believe that to be a socialist is to act according to what is right for the majority of people, particularly the ones whose only power comes from solidarity with like-minded and like-situated folks.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

The Labour leadership- a better comedy team than the Goons or Black Adder.
Corbyn- screamed at by his MP's, sat silent. A born leader?
McDonnell- total reversal of policy in two weeks. Oh no, it's a change of tactics?? No it's not.
Watson- accuses a dying man of 'multiple child rape' and being 'close to evil'. No firm evidence, no police arrest, no trial, no arrest , no trial, no conviction- and no apology.
Abbott- 'it's a process story', no problems. What's a 'process story'?
A vegetarian in charge of agriculture and farming. ???

Is it a comedy team or are the inmates now running the asylum?
A once proud party brought low.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Whatever the shortcomings of the new Labour leadership, the fact is that they are shortly to become the only refuge for millions of voters about to find out what the Conservative austerity programme is all about.

Many people currently in receipt of tax credits voted Conservative because they liked the message that benefit recipients are scroungers, and as such need to be punished.

What they don't realise is that Osborne doesn't differentiate between benefit recipients and tax credit recipients. They are bot a drain on public spending that has to be eliminated.

So look out for the backlash when Conservative voters find that they themselves are being punished, and there'll be a whole lot of them becoming ex Conservative voters.

And where do they go?

To the party preaching anti austerity.

The further the Tories shift to the right, the more powerful Labour will become.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Correct the numpties will eventually have the penny drop.:D no sympathy from me,

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Comedy team leader who totally wiped the floor with Cameron and the rest of his front bench during PMQ's today. (Despite Cameron not answering a single question)

Incidentally a front bench who were openly laughing at questions posed by Corbyn on behalf of real people who were worse off under Camerons policies.

You are half correct..the inmates are ALREADY running the asylum, and you my friend helped put them there

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

The fact Graham abstained in vote for democratic socialism is disgraceful in my book.:(

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

The voting system in this country means that rarely do we get a government chosen by the majority of the electorate.
So, while this government were voted in, they may not have been the choice of the majority of the voters.
But then. It doesn't matter who is voted in, they never ever correct the things that they saw as problems when they were in opposition. For example many governments have known about the tax loopholes....have any of them dealt with these loopholes? Of course they haven't.
If large multinational companies paid their taxes like those of us on PAYE,there would be enough money to sustain the welfare system, to keep police on the streets.
So WHY Has it not been resolved?
We all know that politicians are only interested in the views of the electorate when there is an election coming up.....they treat the voters with ill concealed disdain.
We are not considered bright enough to be able to make decisions about our lives.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I agree about Tax loopholes never being addressed, Blair @ his acolytes are as bad as the tories in that respect certainly, I think maybe labour may now have a guy that will? although i certainly dont agree with some stuff he leans towards, its also a case of if the so called "Media" ever allows him to become P.M. our own M.P. certainly will not IMHO.:(

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

That isn't really true, you are playing with words. This Government was selected by the majority of those who either cared enough or could be bothered to get off their backsides and vote.

If you don't vote you lose your say in the way the country is run.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

No, Neil, I am not playing with words as you put it.
The 'first past the post' system is not going to give the majority of electors the government of their choice.
That is proved by the number of votes polled by say, UKIP, yet they got only one seat in parliament.
The more parties there are the less chance that the majority of the electors will get a government which reflects their views as the vote is diluted by the number of parties available to vote for.
I am not sure that I am explaining myself very well.
The only way to get a true majority is to have proportional representation......but this would put many people off from voting as it is far more complicated than the first past the post system.

And there is little incentive to vote when politicians do not take heed of what the electorate wants.....like the limits on immigration.....parties ignored the concerns of the electorate and the electorate responded.
A lot of people are disenchanted with politics because politicians are seen to be dishonest. Out for themselves and having lost touch with the people they are SUPPOSED to be representing.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Care to evidence this Mr Super moderator?

Because I can evidence that just over 11.3 million voted for this government and 20+ million 'cared enough and could be bothered to get off their backsides', voted against and were ignored.

I'm one of those 20+ million and I'm entitled to my say.

People who didn't vote did so for a variety of reasons, (on holiday, sick, out of the country, thought all the candidates were rubbish etc..) and even if they could not be bothered, they do not lose the right to have their say in a free society....

You should change your title to 'supercilious moderator'...it would be more apt!

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

The Conservatives received 36.9% of the votes of those "who either cared enough or could be bothered to get off their backsides and vote."

Am I playing with numbers to say that means 63.1% DIDN'T vote for them?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Only slightly, it was 38.3%
But then, Labour only got 31%, so 69% didn't vote for them either.
SNP got 4.9% and 56 seats, UKIP got 13% and only one seat!
Nobody said it would be fair!
It's in the interests of the two main parties to keep it this way so there's no chance of proportional representation for a while yet. With Google Page Ranking they'd be forced into coalitions and like Italy nothing would get done.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Where on earth did 'Google Page Ranking' come from?
Should have been 'Google Page Ranking'. Must be an age thing.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

It's done it again! I put the first letters of Proportional Representation!
I give up.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Italy's system has been bastardised by a corrupt government. The Germans don't seem to be doing too badly, neither do the Danes, the Fins and the Norwegians.

Government for the people, by the people etc.. as opposed to the current system so typified by the Graham Jones attitude of 'I know better than the people who voted for me so who cares what they think'!

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

I think you both proved the Tories won with the majority required by our voting system.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Why would that be?

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

People who fell for the traitorous Cameron scare tactics will be regretting their vote now over immigration economy tax credits fiddling unemployment figures standard of living selling off assets to his mates his support of Murdoch who is trying to split the UK for his own ends the sun support the SNPin Scotland the tories in england he has a cheek to stand in front of the British flag he is the most un British pm ever.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

Yes Neil they did.
But although they won by the majority required by our voting system, that does not mean that a majority of the electorate voted for them to govern.
For this to happen the voting system would have to be seriously overhauled and proportional representation brought in.
Now, of course that will not happen any day soon as there is no political appetite for it to be implemented. It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
The current system (and the boundary changes)gives the Tory party a head start.
And without putting too fine a point on it,your answer is ever so slightly pedantic.

Re: Labour Leadership Contest
 

that’s NOT what you said…..

You said…

Which is clearly disproved by 3 people not 2

Ain’t you just.

Your post was not only bereft of any facts, it was conceited, smug and disdainful of the ‘majority’ of the electorate who did not vote for the current government…. i.e.supercilious

Would you like me to define any more big words for you?