Panopticons
 

I've logged on for the first time today because I can't quite believe what I'm reading. I went to the meeting on Saturday about the Panopticons because I wanted more information. I got tons more info and now I'm right in favour of it. How narrow minded some people are. If you want Accrington to remain in the dark ages, with no town pride then you go ahead - I on the other hand will be cheering it on. How many others went to the meeting, or to any of the meetings that they've held?

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whats a panoptican ?????????

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A piece of artwork planned for the top of the Coppice. Part of a scheme to create six landmark pieces on the hills of East Lancashire. Means lots of investment coming in to the town and a kick start to the regeneration of the area. Design is still in development so we don't know what exactly it's going to look like yet but the general idea is that it will be an earth work. This is a totally natural approach to sculpture. Money is NOT coming from the Council before anybody asks, it's coming from central government and can only be used for this purpose and nothing else.

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oh i am with you now ,it s like the singing ringing tree in burnley ,i think i quite like that one ,dont know the accy area all that well .

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Yes, I've heard that one's for Burnley. I like it too. They're all going to be linked up when they're finished so that there'll be rambling trails.

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A Panoptican is a modern version of a Folly. Our Victorian & Edwardian forefathers, however, who built numerous follies on hill tops around Lancashire - Darwen Tower is probably the best known local example - knew how to build with wit, grace and style, and how to build something that would stand the test of time.

The modern Panotican, has nothing of these attributes. It is cheap to construct, serves only to disfigure the natural landscape and like the history of most public works of art in Accrington (such as the Scaitcliffe Fountain), has a shelf life somewhat less than that of a fruit fly. It's only purpose is to justify the spending of public money by various quangos and bureaucrats who have no other reason for being in existance.

There are of course, some very gullible people in the world, not least those who appear to have attended the Town hall meeting on saturday. It does look like many were so easily hoodwinked by the slick spin the artist and his bureaucrat paymasters put out. I can well imagine a thousand years ago these very same people buying up a chicken bone on the basis that it was the finger of Christ. Some are so dumb, you can sell 'em 'out.

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If you didn't go to the meeting how can you say that? Please don't insult my intelligence. Next time you want to say something do it from an informed position. There was no spin, just facts but you wouldn't know because you weren't there.

Plus, the Hyndburn sculpture is built so that it will last over 500+ years - not exactly a flash in the pan is it?

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Madame,

I doubt if you have any intelligence to insult.

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I would prefer to be able to have pride in a town with a decent shopping centre and clean streets. So many things could be done to improve Accrington but a blot on the landscape is not one of them.

Ah yes the Scaitcliffe fountain. That was a disaster from the day it was finished. The thing wasn't built properly so the waterfall effect never worked right and all it did was attract muck and rubbish. How often were any of the fountains actually working? And even when they were they weren't in sync. Mind you, the best thing you could say about it was that very few people actually saw it tucked away there at the bottom of Ormerod Street. I suppose you could say the same for the Panopticon on top of the Coppice as it can't be viewed from the town.

Why can't we just have the Arndale clock repaired and re-instated? More money wasted.

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So anyone who disagrees with you must be lacking in intelligence and thick, I presume. An exceptionally reasoned argument - NOT!

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Only in your case, Madame.

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I would have to agree with Willow a decent shopping centre is what Accrington needs, this will definately attract more people to the town and stop the locals going elsewhere to shop.

Whats this about a fountain????

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It has now been turned into a garden of sorts fibi and has the Ashton-Frost memorial cog in front of it.

I'll dig up a photo if I can find one.

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Thanks for that Willow, looks like next time I go to my mums I will have to get my arse off the setee and have a drive round to see what else has changed

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for all we know purplelass could work for the project and be here trying to change our minds on behalf of the idiots that thought this crap up

sorry but your view or should i say your change of heart would have been more validated if you had been a member here for a while and hated it then went to the meeting and changed your mind

new members suddenly appearing praising this crap just makes me think oh yeah whats the chances of this been someone who works on the project or has somthing to do with it hoping to change our minds so we agree to having some piece of crap stuck on our coppice

parranoia rules :-)

2 new members to accy web both went to this meeting on saturday and both members felt the urge to log onto accy web and tell us how they had seen the error of their ways and that it was a good idea and we too must now be in favor of defacing our coppice

Cjay and purplelass are either working on the project or related to britcliff lol

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Purplelass is entitled to her opinion, but then so are all of us on this site. I too, would like to have a decent town. There is no guarantee that these so called artworks will bring money into the town......it is just a possibility. Personally, I think it will take much, much more to get visitors into the town. There has been a lack of investment for many years. I think that if you come into town along Blackburn Road (Curry Mile) it is a very depressing vista that I wouldn't want out of towners to see.
The town Centre is a shambles. It has been mooted that Broadway was going to be tarted up, no sign of it so far. So if you want to cheer on the Panopticons, that is your choice.... but not mine......and yes I did attend the meeting!

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i agree everyone is entitled to their opinion i was just pointing out the suspicious circumstances around 2 new members claiming they had seen the light and were now behind the project

was more of a paranoid joke if you will but ime a suspicious person by nature and when i saw 2 new members praising the project yet not been here previously posting about their lack of enthusiasm for it my spidy sense started tingleing :idea:

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[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington]Personally, I think it will take much, much more to get visitors into the town. There has been a lack of investment for many years. I think that if you come into town along Blackburn Road (Curry Mile) it is a very depressing vista that I wouldn't want out of towners to see.
The town Centre is a shambles. QUOTE]

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think there's tons of stuff needs doing in and around the area. No one says that the Panopticons are a quick fix.

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You have every reason to feel concern, Chav. One now gets the impression that there is an underhand campaign of disinformation now being undertaken by the powers that be....all the evidence is there, from new members popping on here saying the panopticon is the best thing since nooky through to subtle reporting in the local press of how attendees at the meeting were 'won over' by the concept.

I am afraid to say there are sinister, dark forces at work here.

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Paranoid or what? I only came on because I was looking for more websites with background info on and this forum site popped up. Thought free speech was still allowed in this country?

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I’m neither for nor against this idea at this moment in time, if we are to have a modern folly then lets have one that reflects the heritage of Accrington and her people, not some soft bollocks dressed up as modern art. I was in Accy today. First up Burnley Road where resurfacing work as in some places exposed the intact cobble sets. A bit of history coming to the surface.

I went around town for an hour or so and didn’t see much really, choice is very limited and the streets, although not as mucky then they have been on previous visits, it wasn’t brilliant to see. I saw the same girl on three separate occasions mopping the floor in the Arndale Centre with a proper mop no less. What happened to the street cleaning machine that was there a few weeks back?

I still love this town, today I’ve been in Church, Accy Town Centre, up Fern Gore and over to Clayton le Moors. I wasn’t impressed with all I saw, Blackburn road was terribly rundown like you say Margaret. If money is to be spent, real investment that is, then please start in the centre and work your way out towards the boundaries. Put something back in to the heart of Accrington before you dress her up like a tart.

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May I ask.....background info on what?

Of course, free speech is still allowed - although not in connection with the ethnics, in case they get upset.

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Brought to you by the same people that brought you Hyndburnlite, the lighter website for all your Hyndburn needs, try it you'll love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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A Panopticon for Hyndburn of course. I was searching for Accrington sites and general information on the scheme (I like to be fully informed before I weigh into a debate) and stumbled on this one, along with Accrington Observer's and HBC's.

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But after going to one meeting you were conviced that it was the best thing for Accrington, if only websites could talk.

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And your very first thread and posting is all in favour of the Panopticon? Sounds to me like going to court and beginning with the verdict, then having the trial.

Welcome to Accy web, by the way!! :D :D :D

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Ahh, Panopticons. The very idea gets people as emotional as anything else I have ever seen discussed on these pages. And I think that's the whole point. When was the last time anybody bothered to comment on how nice the Coppice was, or how lovely a spot Keple End in the Ribble Valley is? (The Valley's site for a Panopticon)

Yes, of course a shopping centre with a nice Next would be lovely. But what would it really achieve? A few extra hundred people heading into the area per week? Possibly not even that, from what I've heard.

The Panopticons however seem to offer the potential for something else. A way for the area to be put on a tourist map. Anyone heard of the Great Days Out? Gets people on coaches into Accy, stopping at Ossy Mills etc. My gran has been on several of these trips and loved em. Said she wouldn't have bothered with Accy otherwise. Imagine now if Accy were on a route for a Panopticon tour? Same thing.

And by the way, the architect designing the things? He won't be building them single-handedly!!! I think the only spin he would put on it is defending his design, which any artist would do, until it is built by whatever European funding is finally thrown our way!

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I shouldn't have to explain myself but I will. The chain of events was as follows. I was fairly sure I liked the scheme but didn't know enough about it so went to the meeting. Now convince it's a good thing for the town. Certainly not a bad thing. Came home and over the weekend did some more research. Found this site through the search engine and read through reams and reams to stuff and threads about it. Decided to join in because I thought it might help if you had a view from someone who was into the idea. Just opens up the debate a bit.

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I have often spent time up on the Coppice......I used to run there regularly, and although I may not mention it on here......unless there is cause to......the views are stunning. I do not feel that the Panopticons have anything that will improve the natural beauty of the area......and if we are going to have them just so that we can have a share of some funding...... is that not a bit hypocritical......a bit like prostituting ourselves for a bit of cash. I also think that the earthworks will attract mountain bikers, motor scramblers etc. I think it will go ahead regardless of what we think.

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it cant :D

but a few bumps on the coppice can become an eyesore pretty fast

the shelters and stone monument up there are alreadsy covered in graffiti so what do they think will happen to the bumps or any other crap put up there

i remember when the cross was put up their at easter it was burnt to ashes every year

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I've had a great day out today. I did look up at the coppice and smiled to myself as I remembered what a fantastic place it was before they stuck trees all over it. You need to get a grip here folks, this will not bring people in to Accrington, and it’s a waist of money and will end up just another wart on the landscape covered in spray paint. If your going to do anything clean up the town and then preserve what’s left of the areas heritage and give people something to come and see that’s worth the effort. They may even stay around and spend some money if the towns decent for them. What the **** do you think their going to do.

“Get the kids in the Datsun love”, we’re off to see Accy’s Panopticons and then we can have a curry on that ****ty old road. Afterward we can go on to Burnley and spend some money…..Dream on.

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the panopticon's biggest threat is not public opinion but what people like me can do with an axe :D


that was a joke and i am not affiliated with an terrorist groups or fundimentalist organisations


hey you never know whos reading this stuff lol

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Plus, the Hyndburn sculpture is built so that it will last over 500+ years - not exactly a flash in the pan is it? QUOTE PurpleLass

Hope it doesn't come with the same guarantee as the paving stones outside the Market Hall?

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If instead of trying to make some sense out of what is an absolute piece of garbage then I would agree that this Panopticon is worth having, but instead of something pleasing to the eye of the beholder we are being offered a cheap hurried half-baked idea, Ignore the Coppice let's get Broadway to be something we can be proud of once more, for us, NOT TOURISTS. Once we, the people can feel proud of this area then we can invite others to visit & we will proudly show them what we have, just covering the cracks with a distastful & cheap wallpaper will only show that really, we just don't care.

Call me old fashioned but I think this would be nice.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/a...tachmentid=214

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Is anybody listening to this man, you should.

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It looks nice, but it looks like the famous Accrington Elephant has left a message by one of the lampposts!!!

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No Vorlon, that was the place where the first lot of rot started unfortunately none of us noticed!

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An Easter Island style statue would be more permenant.

A granite erection of Peter looking down on all his Kingdom, now that would be good for putting us on the tourist trail.

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Yes, of course a shopping centre with a nice Next would be lovely. But what would it really achieve? A few extra hundred people heading into the area per week? Possibly not even that, from what I've heard.
The Panopticons however seem to offer the potential for something else. A way for the area to be put on a tourist map. Anyone heard of the Great Days Out? Gets people on coaches into Accy, stopping at Ossy Mills etc. My gran has been on several of these trips and loved em. Said she wouldn't have bothered with Accy otherwise. Imagine now if Accy were on a route for a Panopticon tour? Same thing.
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Yep Ossy mills another 1/2 price market type store that attracts numorous people to the area, why cos its cheap,age group over 60s why cos its cheap,who else goes on coach trips during the week? So how the hell you going to get a load of oaps up the coppice?

What the town needs is investment in industry, in jobs, in revitalisation of the town center which will bring in better shops, better shopping enviroment you need a whole new road structure because some some ill imformed planners decided to route traffic away from town,to bring people to Accrington you have to start with the people who live there make it a place people want to live in not a chav center of excellence where they know the system will surpport them. So you have to knock a few buildings down that have been there a while, you have to clean up springhill and make the people respect where thay live. When you achive that then start looking at stupid lumps on the coppice, too many people who make decsions for Hyndburn don't live there so it doesnt impact them, it like the "they just got 100,000 from the goverment so we want some" attitude who cares how much it costs or where the money comes from just say no thanks we want our town back. When a counciller actually stands up and says look this town has gone down so far we dont need any more hairbrained schemes or pound shops we need a radical overhaul and we need to go out and find investment to make this once proud town prosperous again.

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Anyone else want to see granite erections?

They put a War Memorial obelisk in Tonbridge, by the Castle, and no-one takes much notice of that.

You see more people sitting on benches near green areas more than crowded around the obelisk (apart from those waiting for their bus, of course).

Less's idea is much better

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Well I hate to say it, but you need to get to the next public meeting on the issue. If you've read the LET today or looked at the site you'll know that thanks to a REALLY bad recepetion at a public meeting the Ribble Valley panopticon has been moved!!!! The locals basically went to a meeting and said, no way in hell you're putting a statue on our lovely land!
That's the power of public opinion. As the old saying goes, if you want something done, do it yourself!!

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We will just wait for them to change the date, you know a good football match or ............................

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Good idea garinda. They can make it into a fountaine then Peter can **** on us some more.

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My idea for PB's granite erection was tongue in cheek,mine not his! :)

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:) I know it was....... and I should hope not young lady. :p

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Why don't we just put a big sign on top of the Coppice as follows:


<----Burnley Panopticon 5 miles

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Which of our illustrious leaders could take on the responsibility of saying which way the arrow should point????????????????

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Speaking of attracting tourists. One of the things that would bring tourists in to Accrington is a lively, ambitious and diverse program of events designed to cater to all tastes and all ages. The sort of events that are not available anywhere else, which will get people out of their homes and queing up to spend their dosh in Hyndburn. We already have the venues. We have a civic theatre, A conference centre, of sorts. A delightful Victorian Town Hall and a gem of an Art Gallery. So it should be a breeze to get the tourist ackers rolling in.

HBC are so convinced that this tourist boom is on it's way that they have decided to start putting advertising inserts in the Observer. Entitled: "Your Guide to Events" They are really pushing the boat out over March and April.

At the Town Hall in Accrington, there will be one 50/50 dance night ,
Line Dancing every Wednesday and Sequence Dancing every Thursday,
The 8th Lancashire Food Festival and gala Dinner
And Tom McConville, Pauline Cato and Christine Hanson. The leaflet doesn't say what they do, presumably they are so well known as to need no further explanation.

At The Town Hall Ossy there is;
Laughing Bullfrog Comedy Club - 1 night
Humpty Dumpty - 1 afternoon
B'Eagles (Who?) - 1 night
and.... I can hardly wait..... Chas 'n' Dave!

Together with two exceedingly lacklustre exhibitions at the Haworth, that is your lot! I wouldn't bother rushing out to order your tickets right away, there is certain to be plenty available on the door.

The aching banality of these offerings from Hyndburn Leisure Services leaves me wondering, as I so often seem to do these day's, what planet do the people in Scaitcliffe House live on? It beggars belief that anyone in their right mind could consider that this paltry, amateurish, programme could generate anything other than sneers of derision.

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With so much going on in the region Bob, I'm just a bit reluctant about staying in trying to improve the grammer in all my posts!
:p

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From what l remember we did have a much more varied Art's scene in the 80's. l saw a professional production of 'The Tempest.' at the Town Hall. Punk concerts at Ossy Town Hall, and much more entertainig exhibitions at the Howarth under the curatorship of Norman Potter.
Can't wait for Chas n Dave though, hope it's the real ones and not a cheap tribute act!
Chav n Daze?

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You're right. If you were all so against it why weren't you more vocal? I was at the meeting and all I heard was applause and people saying how something like this was needed. I heard lots of people saying how it had really opened their eyes to the scheme and depending on the actual finished design they were in favour of it. It's all right mouthing off on a site like this when no one knows who's who but you should have had your voice heard. It obviously wasn't a fait accompli or they wouldn't have listened to the people in Ribble Valley.

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Do you remember anyone here?

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I was at the meeting and all I heard was applause and people saying how something like this was needed.

You went to a meeting & all you heard was applause? Get yourself to the circus the sea-lions are trained to clap as well but at least they know they get some fish at the end of it!
I heard lots of people saying how it had really opened their eyes to the scheme and depending on the actual finished design they were in favour of it.

Lots of people would say I'm in favour depending on the ACTUAL finish of the design, thats like saying,
" I'm all for change so long as it's the same because I'm not sure what the difference is!"
It's all right mouthing off on a site like this when no one knows who's who but you should have had your voice heard.

We unlike you, have been communicating on this site for almost two years, we don't always (or should that be often), agree on every topic that is put forward on the site but we have if you would care to take a look at past threads on this topic given it a very thorough debate. o.k. so for once in your life you got off your backside & went to a meeting, if you ever bother to go to another why not stand up and ask any accywebbers here? You might just be surprised by the response you get.

It obviously wasn't a fait accompli or they wouldn't have listened to the people in Ribble Valley.

Gosh! French, in a quote on accy web! Bob & Doug don't ever try to compete with this one your latin just won't be up to it.

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It's not up to me to ask why you were too cowardly to speak up.

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My dear child, I use the term child because even if your mind is in the body of a seventy year old to call some-one cowardly without knowing anything about them just shows that having come to the end of your pitifully small arsenal of mental weapons that you have to resort to trying to provoke me into a tit-for-tat retaliation which is very childish indeed.
I do not understand you, why? because you try to talk sense but fail. You fail because you think the world revolves around you & that everything you say must be right & whatever any-one else says unless it falls within your own grasp of reality is wrong.

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Well, if I'm being childish all I can say is 'you started it' nah nah nah nah nah.

I'm obviously not the only one who thinks their view is right and whatever anyone else says is wrong - we seem to be alike in that respect.

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OOOOOOH! I'm so upset now that I might just anonymously attack your karma that will teach you.

(wanders off to a corner squats down & starts to suck thumb)!

:e9:

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if they wanted the people of accy to attend they knew where to find us ..

there are lots of people registered here and hundreds of guests visit here each day ( unregistered users)

i have no doubt they know about accy web and if they actualy gave a sh1t about accy peoples opinions they would have told us about the meeting here themselves for FREE as well as a tiny advert or a sentence in a news paper

they simply want to go ahead with their ideas regardless of whatthe people who get stuck with their thought up crap think so that the can move onto their next waste of money

and since it appears we are all in a slanging match i proppose that we do have mounds on the coppice...

mounds of earth covering up the bodies of those who thought they could take the pi$$ out of accrington

bah i thought cats were bad for crapping all over our town but at least they dont use bricks and motar to do it

http://pack-square.business-php.com/...PICE&l4=+ALONE

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I am pleased to see that the folks of the Ribble Valley will not be prostituting themselves for the thirty pieces of silver.

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Oh, and Less...... thanks for the memory. That picture took me back to when we had a town to be proud of. Would that it could be so again!

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`


I bet we have the best, the one and only fountain plant pot in lancashire

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Gayle Knight could you please log off and go back to your desk and leave us alone, and to think I used to like the column you wrote in the Observer.

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Just a note, in passing. The Ashton Frost Steam Engine, the wheel from which was mentioned earlier and which used to reside in pieces behind the Stables at Haworth Art Gallery, has gone! Whether it has been sold or carted off for scrap I do not know. But I rather think that the people of Church, to whom it was given, need to ask questions.

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Yup, I went to the meeting and they did a good job in talking up the project... even I could see the reasoning behind it but.....
1. The final design has`nt been decided on so how can we decide if we want it or not, or how it will visually affect the landscape
2. The council gets lumbered with the maintenance costs which it can ill afford as anyone who has been through Milnshaw Park will know
3. Extra funding for upgrading paths and carparks may be avalible. This is based on inward investment being attracted to Top o Slates. This however is a former industrial site which gets regeneration grants. The Coppice as a park/moorland will not
Most of the people speaking at the meeting had a vested interest, the girl from the New Era, Paul from the council and Gayle Knights mum. Oh and I don`t think Purplelass is Gayle, her birthdays in october.

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Well PurpleLass you certainly made a good first thread on your first day here!

l hope you're not here to sway us just because you had to resign your column in The Observer? This has been much more vitriolic and entertaining.

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I could not attend the meeting due to having a proper job and having to work. I find it mildly amusing that anyone could dare to guarantee a piece of so-called artwork for up to 500 years. This is not a Renoir hanging in a gallery being protected and lovingly restored. This is a piece of urban junk despoiling a naturally beautiful area exposed to the elements and vandals. The quangos claiming that this will last have obviously been kissing each others backsides for too long. It's time they looked up and smelt the spray paint..:D

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I aim to please. I like how you all put two and two together and get fifteen. I must be Gayle Knight because I'm the only person in town who approves of the scheme - sorry to disappoint, there's a few of us out here.

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Where have you been? Every time I say it I don't see a flood of support in the Ob. when PB says I am [personally] running the town down. Accy is now Britains Poundland capital and the whole town centre is a disgrace. A ghost town. The lunatics have won.

And what has the Town Centre Regeneration Board achieved. Nowt. Tory talking shop.

Accy needs a major overhaul. Millions investing, but not in new or more or excentric. However any ambition is simply gathering dust as Accy's residents once again go the ballot box and vote for this shower of perverbial. We only have ourselves to blame.

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It's her job and I'm sure that some of the £50,000 will go in bonuses if it gets built so I'm sure they will try anything.

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So, another whitewash then, Uncle Mick? In answer to cjay and Purplelass; it would seem to stand to reason that the people involved in bringing this project forward would want to convince the people of Accrington of the potential positive benefits accruing to the borough if it were to be implemented. They do this for exactly the same reason that they would not explain the potential pitfalls; which is, namely, that they stand to benefit from the project.

The Architect, Chris Beard, has, to my knowledge, never yet completed a project. You may imagine that his fee from NWRDA will substantially improve his salary as a lecturer. The project will also allow him to enter other competitions, something he seems to do a lot of, and stand a better chance of winning.

Gayle Knight would look a very sorry Marketing Person if she could not market this!

HBC, well, they know nothing about anything and even less about aesthetics. They are strapped for cash with an election in the offing, they will grasp at any straw that is offered to ensure that they are seen as backing the popular decision, whatever that turns out to be.

So at the two meetings you were given the hard sell, wrapped in the charm offensive, and you swallowed it, as you were meant to do. But because you allowed them to blind you with tales of hundreds of thousands of pounds of extra funding and a place on the tourist map, you missed what they did not tell you.

First and foremost is that Accrington is already on the map and has been for quite some time. It's name is known all over the world. How much more famous do you want us to be? The prospect of additional funding is by no means certain, because it is conditional. I strongly suspect that we fall far short of the criteria that would open the coffers for Accrington. The one new aspect of funding is that English Heritage may be prepared to finance the repair of the Peel Memorial. If they were going to do that they would do it irrespective of whether there was a panopticon nearby.

It strikes me that HBC do not know the first thing about raising external funding, which is why so many schemes come to nothing. There is no reason on earth why English Heritage could not have been approached for the money to repair a great many things in the borough - years ago! Likewise the Heritage Memorial Fund, which was set up precisely to finance such repairs.

It cannot be escaped that whatever the final designs for this Panopticon turn out to be, art, it is not. It is landscaping, nothing more, and while the landscape designs of Capability Brown may bring tourists to this country from all over the world, I am reasonably certain that the landscape designs of Chris Beard will attract very few and will be almost instantly forgotten. The landscaping will fall victim to lack of funding and will fall into neglect amd will become an adventure playground for off road bikers. the paths will be churned to mud because horseriders will make a beeline for the area and within five years the place will look much the same as it does now and we will be arguing about another hare-brained scheme to regenerate previous failed regeneration efforts.

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You can't let the lunatics win. Accy does need a major overhaul. I've said that myself many times today. I just think that we'd be a bit daft when we're all saying that Accy needs something to turn our noses up at the money the Panopticons can bring in. It's not everything but it's a start.

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[QUOTE=Acrylic-bob]

The Architect, Chris Beard,

First and foremost is that Accrington is already on the map
QUOTE]

Think he's called Peter Beard.

Yes, Accrington is on the map but we're trading on 80 year old history. The three things that people talk about when they mention Accrington is Accrington Pals (1915), Tiffany Glass (early 20s I think, no doubt you'll correct me if I'm wrong) and Accrington Stanley (granted they're doing ok at the moment but their glory days were a long time ago). All good things I agree but I'd like to at least attempt to have something a bit more modern to attract people.

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Try looking beyond the pound signs. A few hundred thousands to repair a few paths, is not going to kick start anyone's economy, least of all that of a borough that is so deeply in debt as Hyndburn. As Graham say's, the borough needs funding of an entirely different magnitude. And before we get that we need to elect councillors who realise this fact and can go out and fight for it.

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Its crap. Clog dancing, line dancing, town centre binge drinking and crap pubs with boring DJs that repeat manufactured pop pap endlessly. It makes Accy look like hicksville mississippi. The evening economy mirrors the day time economy. Limited intelligence, limited ambition, small minds and ambitous egos.

I have banged on and banged on and banged on about Accys limited appeal with officers up at Scaitcliffe for 18 months. Rix kept going on about regneration like it was just bricks and mortar. I asked time & again what about cultural regeneration and I dont mean east meets west. I got all the contacts to book rock bands up at the civic theater only to be told its booked full with ******** clog dancing and 3rd rate prog rock covers bands!!

In the Labour budget we put monies aside to change things.. but Tories like clog dancing, line dancing, its non threatening and appeals to their own goldfish mind instinct. After all rock fans leave beer cans lying around!!

We will never make Accy great till we break out of our own parochial prison...

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The concrete cows are an amusement as the train grinds through Milton Keynes, but they are not what brought prosperity there.
We have whats left of some great heritage, restoring and maintaining that should be a top priority.
If we were going to have any landscape Art of any reknown, we should get Christos to put a curtain from Hambledon to Pendle so we can't see Burnley.
Bound to get a good spread in the colour supplements. :)

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Right, so you're saying we turn down this injection of cash. What happens when another injection of cash comes along, should we turn that down too if it's not big enough. These things add up and they lead to one another. I agree we need the Councillors who can fight for it but I don't think we should turn our noses up just 'cos we don't think it's enough at first.

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I have no argument with new! New is often just as good as old. But new for new's sake is a very bad idea, just as new because you cannot think of anything else is a bad idea. The borough needs innovation and quality, both of which the panopticon does not provide. Would you allow someone who has never painted a house before to paint your house? Would you be happy to allow a doctor who has never operated on a real person before to take out your appendix? But you are asking the people of Accrington to entrust the most prominent feature of the town to a person who has NO TRACK RECORD! How can this be a sensible thing to do? how does this bring innovation and Quality to the Borough?

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To echo what garinda has just said, the borough needs bold and courageous decisions, not banality, we have enough of that already.

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What the town needs is investment in industry, in jobs, in revitalisation of the town center which will bring in better shops, better shopping enviroment you need a whole new road structure because some some ill imformed planners decided to route traffic away from town,to bring people to Accrington you have to start with the people who live there make it a place people want to live in, not a chav center of excellence where they know the system will support them.
Graham I think you and Stanaccrington are the same person he wrote the above on page 3 and when I came and visted last year I was embarassed to show my American wife Accrington, I have never seen so many pound shops and a broken down system that will take years to get right. I spent over 10 years in the middle east and some third world countries would put Accy to shame and then what do they want to spend money on, regeneration,investment in the future,a complete overhaul of the system? no lumps on the coppice, that is so imaginative wow I hope that someone writes to the Sun or the Daily Star and lets them know because they could do a number on this one.

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Bob, I have those HBC debt figures. Our last debt is paid off in 2055. For the mathematicians amongst us there are 33,000 Council Tax Households paying an average £135 per year DISTRICT Council tax.

HBC DEBT EXCLUDING COUNCIL HOUSES
2005 £23,896,000 [+£2m just borrowed for 05/06 =£26m]
2004 £22,261 ,000
2003 £19,294 ,000
2002 £16,590 ,000
2001 £14,853 ,000
2000 £13,010 ,000
1999 £11,785 ,000 [Peter Britcliffe/Conservatives take over the Council]
1998 £11,576 ,000
1997 £11,156 ,000

Re: Panopticons
 

I could not agree more. But how do we convince the NWRDA that they are decorating a cake that is rotten? Graham is a supporter of the regional park idea, another quango generated scheme which is full of grandiose ideas and fine phrases, but as we have seen with the fast dissapearing Rapid Transit System, it is meaningless! It swallows millions and millions to conduct feasibility studies which conclude that it's grandiose ideas are just that, grandiose and impractical and too expensive!

Re: Panopticons
 

I am a Panopticon supporter, true. But not the parody, or the spaceship, or the hillocks or any other bullocks! The Regional Park is the only thing I have seen of any worth eminate from that quango ELP and I think the idea has much merit.

I understand Mr Beard has scrapped the hills and it is now something to do with the Accy Pals, the trenches [which I am told were 2nd world war trenches not the pals?] and incorporating the cannons.

BUT - the town centre, jobs, the economy and basic quality of life indices are far more important than this project. This project was all about one mans newspaper headlines and his elections IMHO.

More curious to note, is how quickly BwD became bedfellows with LCC and drove the agenda. A reminder who the big boys in East lancs are, who gets all the funding and who the small fry are.

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Remember it`s budget day tomorrow and Gordon Brown is getting rid of 30,000 civil servants in quango type positions. This may include The Panopticon project and it`s partner Land.... we can live in hope!

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Just to let you know Margaret, I stole the picture from another thread, I've just come in from a nice night out, so I'm not going looking for the proper contributor but wouldn't it have been nice if way back then they had refused to rip the centre out of the town? We can move on without making things worse, just let the people have their say, then all of a sudden the things we do will be the things we want. (yeah right, maybe I'm to old to believe in fairy godmothers!).
:rolleyes:

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the best thing i like about the photo is how clear teh spread eagle is

its barely visable now i have no idea why they ruined it as it was somthing you could point out and say hey dosnt that look like an eagle to your kids etc

who needs the fancy crap when nature had provided us with somthing much better and promminant to look at

one day i may actualy get drunk enough to fell a few trees so it can be once seen again lol

Re: Panopticons
 

For your info. About 40 people were at the Huncoat area meeting last night. I wasn't there myself so perhaps anyone who was could report back. I have heard though that Brendan Shiel asked for a show of hands and over 30 of them voted yes to a Panopticon. Democracy at work?

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Nah, loonatics in the asylum

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my mum told me they are stopping the bumps on the coppice now because of the number of complaints they have recieved about them.:)

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Your mum has alot of foresight. Luke

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she works for the council

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Very good, Luke. I think "PurpleLass" works for the Council as well, in some capacity. Maybe your mother knows her? However, your mother knows alot more than Purplelass because everyone like your mother knows that the building on the Coppice is not going to happen. Except for Purplelass,who thinks it is going to happen. Is'nt that a shame!