Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Questions from Acrylic-Bob

I think I've answered most of these questions before but I'll repeat some answers.


1. Since the Coppice is such a sensitive area, why can this project not be located elsewhere in the borough?

The Coppice has outstanding views over Accrington. Accrington is the main town in the borough and should be viewed. If the site of the Panopticon becomes the main issue then perhaps alternatives should be sought. The Coppice does need some attention - paths, the memorial and the shelter, etc - would we really want to pass up the chance of restoring them all to put something on the top of a more faceless hill?

2. Why do we appear to be stuck with Mr Beard as the designer. Can we change him for someone else?

Peter Beard was selected by a three stage process. The curator of the process spoke to many architects to find out who would be interested in pitching and which site they would be interested in pitching for. She then selected five designers for each site (Burnley, Ribble Valley and Hyndburn). The steering group then selected three out of the five to present designs to the public. These three designers presented their designs and Peter Beard was unanimously selected. So, yes, I think Peter is the designer for Hyndburn whatever happens with the site. In his defense he was particularly interested in the site because he has an interest in military history and he is thoroughly enjoying soaking up the history of the Pals and the town.

3. What is the point of having a landmark that can only be seen from the air? I don't know whether you have noticed, but there are not that many owners of light aircraft in the borough.

It can be seen from Hambledon Hill. It is also supposed to be viewed from within and enjoyed as an experience. It is supposed to be a place to meet, picnic and enjoy.

4. The Furrows are designed to fill up with rainwater, fine. But, what about the safety aspect?

Agree, it needs to be looked at. Once again I'll reiterate the project is in its infancy in Hyndburn so we don't have all the answers yet. A risk assessment will have to be done without a doubt.

5. The design is said to be 100 metres in diameter, how does this equate with the previously stated aim of preserving the existing trench layout of the site and how much damage is going to be caused by earth moving machinery?

I've seen a plan from above and it doesn't go near the trenches, they start surprisingly further back than anyone has the impression they do. If earth moving machinery is required damage will be minimised. Peter Beard has employed an ecologist as part of his team to look at wildlife and the impact on it both during and after the build.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

And what about the Goddess of the North, also at Gateshead. A reclining female figure with breasts and hips 100ft high, containing millions of tons of mining spoil and visible from passing passenger Jets. That is Big Gayle. That's what gets a place noticed. It is bold, ambitious, unrestrainedly modern and impervious to vandals.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

No, I don't think a study has been done yet. As we're only part way through the process we don't know what exactly is being put up there so it would be impossible to say how much it's going to cost to maintain. A study will be done as the project progresses.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

l thought that was still in the planning stages as well, l may be wrong.

Perhaps there is a similar discussion going on in a NE site.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Friends of Arden Hall are pursuing the funding for the wider scheme along with the Parks Keeper (I'm not exactly sure of his title) from HBC. They are in talks with REMADE about this. I am absolutely definite that we will get money for this as is everyone else involved. REMADE have said as much - they have put £300,000 into Rossendale and are prepared to put similar (probably not quite as much as the Coppice isn't derelict like Top O'Slate) but significant enough to do all those extra things that are needed.

English Heritage have already said that they would be most likely to stump up cash for the revamp of the memorial and shelter should we apply. I'm not sure who will have to apply officially for that. Peter Beard made the initial enquiry to them but I don't think he'd be allowed to apply for funding.

NESTA National Endowment for Science Technology in the Arts have already guaranteed £30,000 for school and education projects around the area. I realise this isn't quite the same but we will lose it if the Panopticon doesn't go ahead as it is related to projects surrounding an earth work.

I don't know why it wasn't costed into the regional park scheme project. I can only assume that it's because all the additional funding will ride on the back of a Panopticon being built and until that's a certainty they couldn't account for it.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I don't know exactly. I've been assuming that it would need something mechanical to build it but it might not. At it's highest it is 1.5 metres high - it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it could be built by hand.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I think we have to talk about wider issues here like pride in our town. I know that HBC get lambasted for rubbish on streets, graffiti etc but surely it's because we don't respect what we've got (or some people don't respect what we've got).

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Explained in another answer. Yes, it is a freebie, if we don't use it for this we will lose it.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

In one respect I'd like it to be in Oswaldtwistle. I live there and would like the investment to come to my town. If it becomes clear that the site is everyone's main issue then it will need to be reviewed as it was in Ribble Valley.

No, the chosen artist doesn't have that sort of cache on the world stage. But he was initially approached because he is an up and coming artist. Simple fact is we couldn't afford Anthony Gormley.

Also, putting it into the context - there are six Panopticons and they will attract the attention as a whole - we should not just be looking at Hyndburn in isolation.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

:rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38: they all work for United Utilities now, sorry gayle could not resist that one

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Again we must look at it in the wider context of all six Panopticons. I agree that the scale is different but what we're producing for East Lancashire is an ambitious project to put six sculptures in place. East Lancashire Partnership are working very hard to promote East Lancashire, and we are bang smack in the middle.

We will have to agree to disagree on this because I think it will produce similar results for Hyndburn and EAst Lancashire.

I can not answer for Peter Beard on this question.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

ME - I live here, I have to live with it. Joking in one respect but serious in another.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

This question was related to disabled access and a reply I gave on an earlier page.

The process starts with £50,000 for the sculpture. Until we've secured the rest of the funding which we can't start spending it is the simple answer to that.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I did not say that. I said that was the option that is being used in Rossendale.

It's not going to be coach loads of people traipsing up there. Please don't try to put words into my mouth. You asked me where it could be viewed from and I explained. It can be viewed from within, from Hameldon Hill and from the sky (probably going to be photographs as you so rightly point out not everyone has a light air craft).

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Then why not think out the whole project from start to finish, and ensure you have "all funding" in place to complete the project and all conected works.
As has been previously posted, it's like building a house, then going back to ask for funds to put the roof on.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Not at all. We've got the original £50,000 for the sculpture. We couldn't possibly plan for everything else at that stage - we're doing it now. And it won't be a little amount like £20,000 it will be substantial, like the £300,000 that they have got in Rossendale. I admit we'll have to get it right to ensure we get enough but the funding application is still being prepared.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Not a question, [but thanks for answering mine.]

As a one fingered typist, thanks for answering our question's as quickly, and as fully as you are doing. :)

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Nothing in this world is a true "freebie" H.B.C. simply can't afford the upkeep of something that is out of the town centre, they made a big issue of the fact that they had to put themselves further in debt by erecting Christmas lights...and can't afford to take them down!

I am a firm believer in Government giving finance to essential works and in this day and age, it is totally wrong to supply funds for projects just for the sake of it, and this is what the Panopticon is all about.

The funds are free...yes,...but what about the various committees that arrange these things and claim 5 figure wages for their "good work?"

Can you honestly tell us, the residents of Accrington, that no one other than P. Beard is receiving money if the Panopticon goes ahead?

We pay our taxes to the government with the hopeful knowledge that OUR money is used wisely, In turn, the government gives our money to the European fund. I hate the feeling that MY money is being given to faceless committee members and also to be used to build unwanted lumps of "art" in the middle of a beauty spot (or what should be if HBC had the funding)

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this. I don't understand how grass, which is all the earth works are made of can be destroyed permanently by spray paint or fire.

And yes, the shelter and monument have been covered in spray paint, so should we leave them like that for all time? Part of the wider scheme is to renovate them. I know there's the danger that it will happen all over again but we shouldn't live our lives frightened because vandals will destroy what we've got. That's a very defeatist attitude. May be I'm a bit different from you because I always feel that if vandals get to something you should rebuild it bigger and better than it ever was to prove a point.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Reply to Busman747

Gayle, you have painted a pretty picture so far but those that have designs on the coppice (Oops, no pun intended) have NOT taken into consideration the views of the locals that use the coppice, the local population that live around the coppice and the fact that it holds fond memories in the hearts of the many that were brought up in the area and they do not want change!

We have taken into account the views of the locals that use the Coppice and we are continuing to do so. We will go with whatever the majority wants at the end of the day and at present point about 75% of the population want something.


Also, can I bring to your attention an article in this weeks Accrington Observer in which they quote Peter Britcliffe, spokesman for the HBC (and NOT one of my favourite peope) but for once, he is making good sense!

I'm really glad that someone has brought this up. In the same article Peter Britcliffe contradicted himself - on one hand he said 'how many components of the word NO do these people not understand'. Yet further down in the piece he said 'One does not want to be rejecting the idea outright because it involves significant investment in the Coppice area'. So what exactly is his view on this?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle
You see Gayle this is one of the problems, the cash strapped HBC can't be trusted to maintain it. Who's going to kick HBC's backside when it becomes a dilapadated joke?



ME - I live here, I have to live with it. Joking in one respect but serious in another.

Sorry Gayle, but you are merely a "press officer." In 5 years time, you will have only one vote amonst thousands that will re elect or throw out the council....

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Because it's coming from different sources, for different things and one is dependent on the other happening. It is like buying a house then getting a bit of extra money on your mortgage to add a conservatory.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Yes, to be honest I don't know exactly where Peter Britcliffe is coming from. I think he's taking his steer from the Accrington Observer and vice versa. At each stage we've been collecting forms and letters and the majority are honestly in favour of it. So he doesn't even seem to be pandering to public opinion either. I am as puzzled as anyone by his reactions but he does wield a tremendous amount of power of the Council and unless he's on board wholeheartedly the project will collapse around our ears. Please don't cheer! Joking!

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

In answer to how many people attended each meeting. I don't know because I haven't been to every meeting myself. I do know that over 40 people attended the Town Hall meeting. Strip away a few officers from the council and MPA staff that left around 35. As I said, 22 forms in favour and 3 against. If it was even remotely like those numbers at the other meetings it does start to add up. Plus, if you look at the letters pages in the Acc Obs there are as many for as there are against.

Even when Accrington Web started up a campaign to email me at work in protest, I only received 10 emails - you have a membership on here of over 2,000.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

He also added: "One does not want to be rejecting the idea outright because it involves significant investment in the coppice area, but they really have to come up with something that is suitable to that area and which will be acceptable to the people of Accrington and the surrounding districts. Until they do that, it is still NO, NO, NO."

I return again to a point I made earlier, is P. Beard any good at designing picnic tables?:D

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I think you're being far too cynical. Peter Beard is an earth work artist - he is also a really keen military historian. He really wanted to work on this project and specifically on this site because it incorporated all of that.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

We had the option of something that big and bold when we had the option of the Halo (the UFO), now Rossendale are getting all the attention for it. And I hasten to add they are not being mocked because of it one little bit. The project for six Panopticons is big, bold and ambitious in itself. They will be like a string of pearls around East Lancashire.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Yeah but to be fair Gayle many people register and don't ever post, which is the same on many forums. It also wasn't a campaign, someone kindly posted an e-mail were we could ask for further information or to log our issues, which until then some of us were in the dark as to who to contact.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

It would appear that the majority of people are in favour of something somewhere.
It would also appear that a very small minority are being very vocal on the subject.
From your comments and those in the Observer by himself, Peter Britcliffe does not know what he wants and will probably make an arse of this like most things he touches.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Here is a photograph taken from the side of Hameldon Hill. Can you see the Coppice? No, neither can I. That's because it is obscured behind Moleside Moor.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

He will get paid, yes. Also, the contractor (hopefully, a local firm) will get paid thus ensuring some jobs for local people.

Mid Pennine Arts (and my salary) is funded primarily by the Arts Council who get their funding from the National Lottery. As far as I know, no one will be paid any bonuses should the Panopticons be built.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I am so glad that you are finally finding your way round the Accy web,...but if you are more observant, you will find that our members are based in places like Canada, U.S.A, Turkey, Australia, New Zealand..........the list goes on and on!

Many have their roots in Accrington, some like myself ae relative new-comers to the area, I feel that I have a right to make my comments known while others perhaps feel that because of distance, they should not get involved in esthetic decisions regarding the future of the coppice!

On a lighter note, as a new member of the Accy web, I hope that you can find time in the future to put your own imput into the various topics raised, Please do not disappear into obscurity as soon as this thread has become obsolete :D Your views will always be welcome!

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I thought you could drive up that little road parallel to the duel carrageway ( the one from M65 to Rising Bridge ) You can park at the top and see the Coppice, can't you. I may be wrong, it is a while since I have been up there :D;):D

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Sorry, my system crashed temporarily. I think it must be getting overloaded a bit.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

And my mother said that learning how to type would consign me to a life time career as a secretary - little did she know.

I am starting to get RSI, I think!

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I bet it is you who is getting overloaded :) you have been bombarded for a couple of hours or more so far tonight.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

That figure for the Town Hall meeting represents 0.001% of the population of Accrington (35,000 - HBC).

Although the site claims 2000 members they are actually split along several lines, so the regulars in General Chat category usually number around thirty or so.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

You make an awful lot of assumptions. You have no idea, I could be planning on standing for Council for all you know. Or, I might not be here at all - who knows. I was joking in my original answer but you know what, we all have to kick HBC's backside if it starts to look shabby. A lot of voices have more power than one.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

With your R.S.I. in mind, I will stop posing questions for the evening and leave it to others :)

Thank you for being so candid, you have not convinced me but maybe others? Time will tell...

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

To be fair A-b, if you go to the top of the road to the old quarry before the farm gates [King's Highway?] there is a fantastic view of the Coppice and a great view of Accy.
l take visitors up there, and it is the nearest l get to owning my own light aircraft.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I could not agree more. I wonder how many of the people on here tonight went to the meetings and voiced there opinion in person?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Send me your email address in a private message and I will try to send you something when I am next in the MPA office. That goes for anyone else who lives out of the area too. Anyone local can still see the proposals at Acc Town Hall, Haworth Art Gallery, Hyndburn Sports Centre, Accrington Library until Friday. It's worth going because there are more images showing how it will look and it has a ground plan which shows where the trenches are in relation to it.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I don't know but you know you can buy them from B&Q for a couple of hundred quid. Perhaps we should send Cllr Britcliffe shopping.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

That sounds like the road I meant. I cant remember much of a view of the Coppice in the dark :D

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

In that case perhaps you can see it from Moleside Moor and the two farmers that you mentioned wouldn't have people walking on their land. I was repeating information about Hameldon Hill that someone else had told me - but the fact is that there is a hill higher than the Coppice from which it could be seen.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I'm doing my best to be absolutley fair. I don't think that it is unreasonable to point out mistaken assumptions. Gayle claims that the coppoice can be viewed from Hameldon Hill, I have just shown that it can't. If she can get that much wrong, how much else is she getting wrong?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

That's not exactly being fair is it. I got the name of a hill wrong, in the grand scheme of things that's a minor fault to start picking at. You can't deny that there is a hill higher than the Coppice from which you would be able to see the sculpture - can you?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Oh, I see, so it can be seen from Moleside now. This project is getting smaller and smaller as the evening progresses.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Right, I'm exhausted. I am leaving for this evening but I will return to pick up any loose questions that you feel I may not have answered.

I don't know how to post a poll or I would do. Perhaps someone could advise me.

Thank you all for your time, Goodnight.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I'm Sorry Gayle, this is not a personal dig even though it might read that way. But nothing you have said this evening convinces me that this is good idea or that anyone involved has the least idea of what they are doing. Accrington will end up with another white elephant, all concerned will pat themselves and each other on the back and then walk away. While the rest of us will just have to be damned grateful because at least we got some "art" out of it.

Thanks for taking the time to come and answer our questions. It is very much appreciated.

Perhaps you might like to persuade Peter Beard to join in our discussions?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

l'm sorry A-B I didn't mean to contradict you, [this time,] l didn't know where Moleside starts and Hambledon ends, but from where l said there is a great view of the Coppice.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Thankyou Gayle it has been interesting and given us lot's to think about. I'm sure there will be more questions arise when other members return and read over the posts.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Start a new thread and click on thread tools at the top of the post and select poll

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Many thanks for all your time and answers Gayle. Good night and I hope we see you on again soon.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Well done gail for saying what you know and answering members's questions!

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I'm sure many of us feel the same way Gayle. Thank you for your time, I'm not convinced but your comments have helped and I'm sure I'll have something to say once I've seen the plans in more detail.....:)

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Again thanks, still don't like the sighting or what's going to be there though.

All art is subjective, what people think of as 'nice' art, [involving craftsmanship,] was also once contemporary, and a lot of it provoked a bigger reaction than this has here.

It's a good job everything isn't open to public debate, Rome wouldn't be much of a place to visit if it was. :)

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

not everone has internet or knowledge of how to approach you

however there are over 500 members here and i think its safe to say most dont want this so i depend how popular it is depends where you look

we have a run down park called milshaw park would that not benifit more from a scheme like this as you mentioned earlier they are using a park in burnley so why not use a park in accrington that desperatly needs some help rather than deface the coppice

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

From Chav1 on a different thread.

i know there are possibly other places but milnshaw park sprung to mind becayse i went there recently and was dismayed at how much in ruin it was compared to 10-15 years ago

edit:

from what i read in gayles thread they are using a park in burnley so why not in accy..?

could it be the desighners ego insisting that it be on the coppice having his creation looking down on all of us or is he open to other locations

i for one would back it if it somthing was done on milnshaw park te only objection i have to the scheme is that they want to use the coppice

Reply from Gayle Knight

Firstly, there are two in parks - one in Corporation Park, Blackburn and the other at Wycoller Country Park in Pendle. These two sites were selected because they afford incredible views of the towns and surrounding countryside. That is the main criteria for a Panopticon site and I'm not sure but I don't think Milnshaw Park fulfills that criteria.

The designer is not insisting on that site at all. He was asked to design something with that site in mind. The site was selected long before Peter Beard was involved.

Finally, could I say, I have pulled this over from another thread - if you have any questions to ask me please keep it to this thread. I will set up a poll myself (it will have to be on yet another thread as technically I didn't start this thread myself).

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Actually, I don't think it's safe to say that as there are only a small number of you who have been anti it all evening. Perhaps the poll will give us a clearer idea.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Acrylic-Bob I have a couple of questions for you as I have answered so many of yours.

Firstly, in one of your later questions you state that the people who attended the meeting is only 0.001% of the population of the town. If that is the case, does that not mean that only 0.00025% of the town are protesting against it? And doesn't it mean that over 99.999% either don't know or don't care enough to make their views known either way?

Secondly, I think it's an old trick to try and discredit someone's entire argument on a minor technicality like the name of the over looking hill. But I have already asked you this question twice and not received an answer, so for the third time - is it true that the Coppice is overlooked by a hill which will give you a view of the Panopticon from a higher point?

I doubt that Peter Beard will join the discussion but I would be interested to see if Peter Britcliffe would be willing to. Or perhaps even the editor of the Accrington Observer who seems to have very strong opinions in opposition to the scheme.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Oh they do, do they. I did a bit of research and came up with an aerial photograph from the 1940's (courtesy Lancs.CC). It shows the area of the coppice and the layout of the trenches. I have imposed a circle of 100metres (approx) on the photograph to give you some idea of the number of trenches that will be obliterated by this project.

This is the second claim that Gayle and midpennine arts, whom she speaks for, have made that is FALSE. How many more of their amazing claims will turn out to be equally false. I am thinking about all the benefits that will come flooding into the borough. I am also thinking about the suggestions of additional funding, none of which is certain.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Hi Gayle,

I hadn't noticed that you were online this morning too, addictive isn't it.

To answer your questions: I agree with you that by and large the population of Accrington either do not know anything about the proposal or could not care less what happens to the Coppice. Most have more important things to worry about. It must also be said that the people of Accrington are perhaps not as culturally aware as the majority of the population and do have a reputation for Artistic Philistinism. However you have to deal with people who express an interest or concern. I cannot argue with the fact that from this limited number of people you achieved an approval rating of 75%, but I think that it is highly improper and misleading to suggest that this in any way equates to what the majority of the population actually think. If anything it suggests your polling strategy is aimed to achieve the required result.

I'm sorry that I missed your second question and will answer it now. In your reply to my five questions posted earlier in the thread you said that the design would be visible from Hameldon Hill. This is not the first time you have made this claim. It was only my posting of photographic evidence in refutation of your claim that compelled a hasty rethink. Yes the Coppice can be seen from Moleside Moor, and Moleside is higher than the Coppice, by some 74 metres according to the Ordinance Survey. One would have thought however, that a Press Officer would be aware of the salient features of a proposal he or she was trying to promote or explain to a sceptical audience. But we all make mistakes, I know I make more than my fair share. But you then go on to compound your mistake by stating that the proposal will not damage any of the trenches. My last post in this thread proves otherwise.


It is called research Gayle, and it may, as you say, be an old trick, but it is still remarkably effective.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

It's a pity that Mr Beard doesn't want to join in the discussion, but perhaps not really that surprising.
Speaking personally, I would be very interested to encounter Councillor Britcliffe on the forum, but I don't think that he would dare show his face. I am not at all sure that the Accyweb.com server could cope if he did decide to show up. "The Night of the Long Knives", would appear as a boy scout jamboree by comparison.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Do you ever sleep?

If you can suggest a better way of reaching the public then please advise me. It has been a regular feature in the local newspapers, we have put up exhibitions around the area, we have held four public meetings and it has been posted on every website we are aware of. As you say, the poll may not represent the entire population but it is the entire population that we have been able to reach.

As I said at the beginning I will state facts as I know them. Clearly, I have been given incorrect information about the name of the hill. I think this is a slightly irrelevant point to continue to raise when clearly the Coppice can be seen from a higher point.

The subject of the trenches is a different matter. The overheads that I have don't show those two front trenches which as you point out the circle goes over. A few things occur to me, either those trenches have been filled in more recently than your picture was taken, or the circle goes over them as you indicate. Yes, it needs to be looked into but also we need to assess how valuable two trenches are to the over all scheme. This is not me suggesting we ride roughshod over the views of people who want to keep the existing trenches at all - just that it clearly needs to be investigated further and I will return to this subject at a later point when I have more information available.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

To add to the gravitas of Acrylic-Bob's standing as a scholar/ art historian and researcher, perhaps l should post a photo of one of his paintings that he emailed me.

Perhaps he should have 'researched' me more before deciding to share his atristic talent with me?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Excuse me if l'm wrong again, but weren't the meeting's open to the public and advertised as such before hand?
We only have ourselves to blame if we didn't attend.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Please don't misunderstand Gayle. I am not attacking your personal integrity, I don't know you well enough to do that, and probably wouldn't even if I did.

But do you not see how this is starting to come across? And can you see why some of us have grave misgivings over this proposal? If you as the spokesperson for the proposal are given dodgy information about the physical facts of the proposal, then how can we be sure that you and we are not also be given equally dodgy iformation on the sources of funding and possible benefits accruing?

Public participation in anything is difficult to encourage - ask the government for the truth of that statement.

As to whether I sleep....hmmm....I will have to get back to you on that one.:D

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I get the feeling that the project is still at an early stage with many of the details still to be ironed out. Maybe that is why some facts are not available.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Year three is an early stage?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

hi gayle

i would like to say thankyoufor your time and patience with people like me :-)

i would also like to explain what i meant by not everyone knows about this scheme and how to contact you and i will give a short but more detailed explination

i for example would never have known about the sceme if i hadnt joined accy web as i dont buy local papers and the only real interest i have had in the past in the councils activitys was how much my next council tax bill is going to be

i am not saying the scheme didnt try its best to inform us ime sure a few years ago the local paper would be the ideal place to reach everybody but as a whole i would say more people now buy national newspapers and use the internet to get information like i do , ime not saying no one buys the observer or telegraph as obviously we still have enough paper boys/girls and they would be out of work if they wernt selling

as for holding meetings i think the poor attendace at them dosnt reflect lack of interest but shows more that people are too busy with other things like work and homelife like the kids , housework and shopping etc

maybe door to door surveys cold have been used ( if not used that is )as they would have reached more of the population of accy and got a better picture of those for or against the project

as for starting that other poll it was started more as to satisfy my curiousity if people would accept it somewhere else and i didnt want to clutter up your thread with it although as you can see reading it i edited it as the night went along as thoughts came into my head and ime sorry if you thought i was hijacking this thread it wasnt meant to appear tha way

anyway thanx again for taking your time to answer questions as you have read other people are better armed with knowledge than me to come up with the realy good questions , ime just a bog standard bloke who wants his coppice left alone :D

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

l think the cost of doing a door -to-door survey would cost more than the whole thing, who would pay for it?

There has to be a limit to how much say we have, otherwise nothing would ever get done, good or bad.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

door to door serveys cant cost that much ime always getting people at my door asking questions abouut one thing or another

anyways it was just an idea :D

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

The project as a whole is three years into but Hyndburn is really only about three months into it. The new design only arrived at the MPA two weeks ago so that is at an extremely early stage.

I'm not saying that there aren't things that still need to be sorted out as there are and we are trying to do that. As with anything you can only go off the information that you have at hand at any particular time - if information contradicts that then it is wise to say so and not bullishly stick to what was originally said. I agree your information contradicts the information I had so I am looking into it.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

A couple of ideas from Chav's poll thread which might be missed...

Whinney Hill has existing road access.

Land at the top of Kings Highway has road access and is an abandoned quarry owned by Ibstock Ltd.

The area around Bedlam also has existing road access.

All have extensive views over the area and are roughly as high and as prominent as the Coppice.
If spectacular views are what is required, there is an old Victorian quarry just at the foot of Hameldon Hill off Kings Highway. The area is already popular with walkers. and it has the added benefit of of having several spoil mounds already in situ, it also has a Victorian "Holy" Well - the May Road Well- and is close to a medieval highway -Kings Highway. It is also close to an area where neolithic artefacts have been uncovered- lots of History. It is also situated between two large reservoirs. On a clear day you can see the coast at Blackpool and a large part of the Lake District as well as views to Darwen Tower and Haslingden.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Yes. Have you ever seen them move faster :)

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Don't do a door to door sevey that would cost. Put it in the hands of a bunch of college students that are doing sociology or something, ask them kindly if they could take this on and come back with there findings. Could be quite a project for them to do in assignments and stuff:D

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Called my Dad this morning, about 10 your time and he was amazed that he had to hear from America what was going on in his town, he does not buy the Observer because his quote " all it does is report what the council wants us to hear" and when I told him what it was, after laughing he said well how about sorting out Burnley rd first as I can't go shopping at the moment, in other words most of the people of Accy have other things more mundane everyday things to think about then art on the coppice. I think this may account for a low turn out.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Wouldn't it have been good, if information and a survey about the panopticon had been included with everyones Council Tax bill.......it could have been filled in and posted at boxes say in the council offices or the Town Hall. Other than that Slinkys idea is very good.
This is one questionnaire I would happily complete.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I totally agree, and there is a general feeling of disinterest from the town. Most people, like you say, are not particularly bothered either way.


For your information, and everyone else, there is a poll set up under Panopticon Poll thread. A few people have been there already. I'm just going to go there now and post a message so it lifts it up the message board again as some people might not have seen it.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

That is actually a good idea. I think it would be down to the Council to co-ordinate that though!

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Sorry, I missed this one last night. It wasn't intentional but as it happens I'm afraid I can't answer that one yet as I don't know the answer. The statement 'materials on site already' was made by Peter Beard initially so I will ask him at the next opportunity.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Another one that I missed last night. Ironically on the same subject but I can assure you it wasn't intentional. Site surveys have not been completed yet, that will be done if the project progresses in due course. The hire of equipment and contractors has been budgeted for - as I said it will have to go to tender and I presume that anyone who wants to quote for the job will have to explain how they're going to do it.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Did a bit of a straw poll over the weekend of family/friends ect and this is how it went

Q Do you want a panopticon?
A No (Mainly)
Q Why Not?
A Waste of money/ Blot on the landscape ect
Q Why did you not go to the meetings?
A Could`nt be bother/ thought it was a done deal/ too busy/ what meetings

So mainly against but apathetic, so on one side we`ve got the fors with high art/ inward investment and on the other side we`ve got the no`s with ugly carbuncle/badly financed. Any ideas how to square the circle? My idea is to build it somewhere else, Oswaldtwistle Moors, Belthorn, Hameldon and then we still get the investment and the fors get the art!

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I agree with this completely. There is a general feeling of apathy about the subject and it frustrates me endlessly. At least in other areas passions have been inflamed. As for your suggestion - have you switched over to the poll thread?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Ah bless! we have an agreement! Yup my dear i`ve already polled and it would be unfair, nay corrupt of me to poll more than once. Now if you need an independant auditor.............

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Gayle,it would seem that your idea of tender differs to mine, are you the "specifier" not supposed to tell the contractors tendering exactly what you want, and how you want them to carry out the work,how do they provide a competitive price unless the work is specified as to how, when, and where. else we may finish up with another broadway.
Also if site surveys have not yet been completed, and the "artist" is being paid £10k I assume that is out of the £50k, how does anyone know what this is actually going to cost. Lets say the budget is used up and the thing is not completed, what happens does everyone walk away from it.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

If they have a change of party at the next elections what happens, does it get cancelled, go to a vote, has no effect? how will the project go ahead if the council are against it?

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Answer to question about tender.

I'm in an area that I don't know a lot about at this stage so I'll tell you what I know has happened in other areas. Because of the complexity of the projects, contractors have been told what the end result is and what the proposed material is. They have also been told the budget. They have then come back to the Council with their proposals. In the case of Hyndburn we will undoubtedly tell them we want to minimise the damage to the trenches and pathways. The exact ins and outs of how they do that will need to be defined with the contractors. At this point we don't even know if it's going to be dug mechanically or by hand so it's almost impossible to say what impact the digging will have.

I think we're in danger of getting ahead of ourselves here. As I've said before the project in Hyndburn is still in its infancy. We should be talking about the general picture, i.e. site, aesthetics and rationale behind the project. We're getting a bit bogged down with specific detail that we can't possibly know for certain at this stage.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

In answer to the other part of your question. We have a budget of £50k. The estimated cost has been costed out by the designer who has experience of building other earth works. I'm sure nothing will be done on the site until the contractor has been agreed and the costing agreed so there should be no reason for the budget to be exceeded. Once it is all agreed as far as I am aware no one will walk away, NWDA have committed themselves to this project.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Politics - ah - my least favourite subject. I presume that once it has gone through planning permission, if it is accepted, the Council won't be able to get it cancelled even if there is a change of leader. But perhaps someone could advise me on that because I personally don't know how the planning permission works in that respect.

On that subject though, it is mostly Labour Councillors that are supporting it and Conservatives against, so in some respects a change of party would work in favour of the project.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Finally, for today. I've asked Peter Beard a few questions on your behalf and here are his answers -

The ridges collecting water:- The intention is for say 4 inches maximum depth of water just in the winter months – only 5-10% of the furrows would be wet even in the wettest months. If this is considered a problem we can arrange surface water drainage so there is no standing water at any time – just ‘moist’ habitats.

Attached is something which hopefully answers the viewing issue - re sightlines from Hameldon Hill and Moleside Moor.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Can I just say, the article in tonight's LET was not instigated by me. The reporter contacted me after reading this website on Monday night and asked if disabled access was a possibility. I replied cautiously that all I could say was what was happening in Rossendale and of course Top O'Slate and The Coppice are very different. I did of course say, that it would be looked into it as a possibility if the wider funding is achieved which it will be - that is not a guarantee that it will happen, as I said many times throughout this thread.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Soon everybody will be able to cop a view

A MONUMENT planned for the summit of Accrington's Coppice could open up parts of the landmark to disabled people.

Currently access to the Coppice, from Avenue Parade and Arden Hall is too steep and difficult for many elderly, infirm or disabled people to manage.

But if plans to build a `panopticon' on the top of the site get the green light, routes up the Coppice could be altered to make it easier, as part of related improvements to the site.

Today the plans -- which could include smoothing pathways and including disabled parking spaces -- were welcomed by a local disabled support group.

Gayle Knight, spokesman for Mid Pennine Arts, the group behind the panopticon project, said: "It will be one of the things that will be looked into if further funding is brought into the site."

In nearby Rossendale a statue known as Halo -- originally planned for the Coppice but turned down by the council -- is set to go ahead, and among the work to be carried out as part of £300,000 worth of changes to the area are disabled access improvements.

Groups including `Remade', an organisation which invests money in improving derelict areas, and development body Groundwork, are involved financially.

It is hoped that similar improvements and investment could be brought into Accrington if plans for the panopticon are approved by the council.

So far, conservation group English Heritage have indicated it may invest, and local group the Friends of Arden Hall is looking at funding improvements to access from the hall.

Today Susan Ripley, secretary of the Great Harwood and District Disabled Club, said: "Anything to help disabled people would be a benefit really. I am disabled so I know what it's like and you just don't get to go to those sort of places really.

"Sometimes they say disabled access and when it's put into place it isn't really that much good for disabled people. I think they would have to ask for disabled people to help them and make sure it's easy for disabled people at the end of the day."

Gayle added: "The Accrington and Rossendale sites are different. I wouldn't dare to say the Coppice was a derelict site, as people use it a lot.

"But it is in need of repair and it needs a little bit of tender loving care to get it to the glory that it once was.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I will once again stress that I did NOT instigate this piece in the LET.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

I think its called investagative journalism or made up which ever fits, it was just a coincidence I was reading it on line and you posted.

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night
 

Never trust the Press,eh Gayle?;)

Re: On Behalf of Gayle Night