Female circumcision/FGM

[Lilly]

It all sounds barbaric to me. If they must do it at all why does it have to be done with no anaesthetic?

[Bonnyboy]

It certainly comes across as being barbaric and I really don’t see the point of it.
The initiator of this thread jelly baby posed the question /statement “How can any civilised country allow this to continue? It is about time we took the same stance as the French and prosecuted/deported anyone found guilty of such mutilation be it on females or males.”
My question is “How would one propose that this practice is Policed ?”

[firth_dawn]

it is a very sad way of life for the girls and selfish of the men. im cringing here thinking about it.

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by jelly baby

How can any civilised country allow this to continue? It is about time we took the same stance as the French and prosecuted/deported anyone found guilty of such mutilation be it on females or males.

France is hardly a stable governing state where people have freedom of religion now is it? They've got the idea right but have drastically failed in their pragmatism. Many Christians celebrated the feast of the naming and circumcision of Jesus on January 1st. Should they be deported too?
The Government must always be careful to respect religious belief when enforcing human rights in societies on our soil. Failure to do so would result in a hostile state; that enforces secularisation, instead of merely rejecting religion from government and adhering to human rights.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

The Government must always be careful to respect religious belief when enforcing human rights in societies on our soil. Failure to do so would result in a hostile state; that enforces secularisation, instead of merely rejecting religion from government and adhering to human rights.

Except of course when the religious belief is actually illegal in this country. I hardly think that cutting a womans clitoris off with a razor blade by some old woman on a kitchen table could be classed as legal surgery.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bonnyboy

It certainly comes across as being barbaric and I really don’t see the point of it.
The initiator of this thread jelly baby posed the question /statement “How can any civilised country allow this to continue? It is about time we took the same stance as the French and prosecuted/deported anyone found guilty of such mutilation be it on females or males.”
My question is “How would one propose that this practice is Policed ?”

Where would you deport the hundreds of thousands of British Jewish and Muslims to, who each year routinely circumcise their male children, because of cultural and religious beliefs?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

circumcise their male children, because of cultural and religious beliefs?

Two questions spring to mind,
Should it be allowed without medical need?
Without medical need is it just mutilation?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

Two questions spring to mind,
Should it be allowed without medical need?
Without medical need is it just mutilation?

Male circumcision is routinely carried out in the UK for cultural/religious beliefs, as opposed to medical reasons, by both Jews and Muslims.

(Nice to see unity for a change, from these two sections of society.)

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by Neil

Except of course when the religious belief is actually illegal in this country. I hardly think that cutting a womans clitoris off with a razor blade by some old woman on a kitchen table could be classed as legal surgery.

I wasn't saying otherwise.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

Male circumcision is routinely carried out in the UK for cultural/religious beliefs, as opposed to medical reasons, by both Jews and Muslims.

I know that mate. I was asking if cultural/religious beliefs is a good enough reason to perform a medical prodedure on someone.

[lettie]

Originally Posted by Neil

I know that mate. I was asking if cultural/religious beliefs is a good enough reason to perform a medical prodedure on someone.

It is if you're paying for it. The NHS will do ritual circumcision of males along with medical circumcision but, the ritual circumcision has to be paid for whereas medical is free.

[grannyclaret]

1. ive just one word to say,,,,,YUK

[katex]

Originally Posted by lettie

It is if you're paying for it. The NHS will do ritual circumcision of males along with medical circumcision but, the ritual circumcision has to be paid for whereas medical is free.

Just wondered Lettie .. have you ever been involved in the birth of a baby where the mother had been circumcised in this way ?

[lettie]

Originally Posted by katex

Just wondered Lettie .. have you ever been involved in the birth of a baby where the mother had been circumcised in this way ?

We get about 5-10 per year locally, usually asylum seekers from African countries or Middle Eastern women. Childbirth is horribly traumatic for these women and we tend to surgically separate the labia a few weeks before the due date in the UK. My mate worked in Abu Dhabi where they see this quite a lot. The women are cut at childbirth both downwards on the perineum, which is a traditional episiotomy and upwards to separate the labia, which is not the done thing here.

Of course, this practice is illegal in the UK and is often done to little girls when they are old enough to remember it, from about 8 years old. Ritual circumcision of males is done before the baby is a month old, in a lot of cases.

What makes me wonder is now, a significant percentage of western women who visit gynaecologists wanting vaginal or labial surgery. Believe me, requests for what the media have dubbed 'designer vagina' are increasing. I blame the Brazilian wax for this. Without hair, women can see that one labia is slightly bigger than the other which is totally normal, but they want them to be even..... I also see plenty of women who have clitoral piercings....eeeeeeew!!! Why are Western women prepared to put themselves through these kind of procedures and yet, berate other cultures for their practices.

I do not agree with FGM, it is completely barbaric in the way that it is done, causes problems in childbirth, sex and urination, infections and psychological problems are also common. However, I have to wonder at the stupidity at some of our own women who cannot accept that they are normal and want bits of labia removed etc........Makes me cringe..

[katex]

Thanks Lettie .. can imagine how you feel towards this in your job to bring children safely into the world .. 'tis hard enough when women have genuine problems, never mind early mutilation of the genitals.

Can never understand that cosmetic surgery either .. crikey, as if a bloke cares if your 'what's it' is geometrical or not !...